IRC log of au on 2012-07-09

Timestamps are in UTC.

18:47:00 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #au
18:47:00 [RRSAgent]
logging to http://www.w3.org/2012/07/09-au-irc
18:47:07 [Jan]
Zakim, this will be AUWG
18:47:07 [Zakim]
ok, Jan; I see WAI_AUWG()3:00PM scheduled to start in 13 minutes
18:47:12 [Jan]
Meeting: WAI AU
18:47:37 [Jan]
Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-au/2012JulSep/0001.html
18:47:42 [Jan]
Chair: Jan Richards
18:47:52 [Jan]
Regrets: Jutta T.
19:00:58 [Zakim]
WAI_AUWG()3:00PM has now started
19:01:06 [Zakim]
+??P11
19:01:18 [Jan]
zakim, ??P11 is really Jan
19:01:18 [Zakim]
+Jan; got it
19:01:19 [Zakim]
+Jeanne
19:05:01 [Zakim]
+[Microsoft]
19:05:26 [Jan]
zakim, [Microsoft] is really Alex
19:05:26 [Zakim]
+Alex; got it
19:06:01 [Zakim]
+Greg
19:10:00 [Greg]
Greg has joined #au
19:12:12 [jeanne]
scribe: jeanne
19:12:26 [Jan]
Topic: Processing Last Call comments
19:12:40 [Jan]
Topic: New proposal related to MS3, IBM19, MS4, IBM20
19:12:47 [Jan]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-au/2012AprJun/0063.html
19:13:33 [Sueann]
Sueann has joined #au
19:13:49 [Jan]
B.2.3.2 Conditions on Automated Suggestions:
19:13:57 [Jan]
B.2.3.3 Let User Agents Repair:
19:14:20 [Jan]
B.2.3.2 Generation of Text Alternatives: If the authoring tool automates generation of text alternatives for non-text content, then the following are all true: (Level A)
19:14:22 [Jan]
(a) Author Control: If authors are available (i.e. an authoring session is open), then authors have the opportunity to accept, modify, or reject the generated text alternatives prior to the alternatives being inserted into the content. [APPROVED]
19:14:24 [Jan]
(b) Identified as Auto-Generated: If authors are not available (i.e. an authoring session has ended), then the generated text alternative is identified such that authors have the opportunity to accept, modify, or reject the generated text alternative during a subsequent authoring session.
19:14:25 [Jan]
(c) Contextual Information: Use of descriptive context information possessed by the authoring tool (e.g. that an image is a user's profile picture) is acceptable.
19:14:27 [Jan]
(d) Pattern Recognition: Use of the results of pattern recognition algorithms (e.g. Optical Character Recognition) is acceptable.
19:14:29 [Jan]
(e) Relevant Properties: Use of text properties of the non-text content that have been defined as being intended for the provision of text alternatives (e.g., metadata "description" field) is acceptable.
19:14:31 [Jan]
(f) Irrelevant Properties: Use of text properties of the non-text content that have not been defined as being intended for the provision of text alternatives (e.g., file name, file format, date) is not acceptable.
19:14:34 [Jan]
(g) No Generic Strings: Use of generic text strings (e.g. "image") is not acceptable.
19:14:36 [Jan]
Note: For automatic generation of other types of content, see success criteria B.1.1.1 and B.1.1.2.
19:15:34 [Zakim]
+ +1.561.236.aaaa
19:16:07 [Jan]
zakim, aaaa is really Sueann
19:16:07 [Zakim]
+Sueann; got it
19:16:16 [Jan]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-au/2012AprJun/0063.html
19:18:48 [Jan]
JR: Not enough people on call to decide.
19:19:19 [jeanne]
AL: Are we trying to wordsmith this today?
19:19:30 [Jan]
AL: These are AND...
19:19:41 [jeanne]
... it is not an AND situation, you have to choose one.
19:19:55 [jeanne]
JR: You can have an IF within a list of AND conditions
19:20:43 [jeanne]
JR: What I wonder about is (b) -- there are tools that store the state of the content, but most HTML editors do not, and how can it meet (b).
19:21:39 [jeanne]
JR: It isn't locked in, it would have to allow editing.
19:22:26 [Jan]
JS: But wouldn't even apply unless tool is auto-generating
19:22:29 [jeanne]
JS: Most tools aren't going to automatically generate alternative text . It wouldn't even apply to an HTML ediotr
19:23:03 [jeanne]
s/ediotr/editor
19:23:19 [Jan]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-au/2012JulSep/att-0000/ATAG2-CommentResponses20124010LC-4.html
19:23:32 [jeanne]
topic: IBM3
19:23:50 [Zakim]
+Tim_Boland
19:23:58 [jeanne]
SN: I checked with the commenter, and they accepted the update.
19:25:03 [Jan]
Resolved: AUWG: There are several points made in the comment:
19:25:05 [Jan]
Re: tying communication with platform accessibility services with programmatically determined, it is already tied by a reference to "platform accessibility service" in "programmatically determined".
19:25:06 [Jan]
Re: "communicate with", vs "using": The Working Group feels that "using" is too vague and instead proposes: "Platform Accessibility Services: If the authoring tool contains non-web-based user interfaces, then those non-web-based user interfaces expose accessibility information through platform accessibility services."
19:25:08 [Jan]
Re: "platform accessibility service": The Working Group is concerned that that term is too vague. The definition should make it clear that IAccessible2 is covered and in fact IAccessible 2 is an example.[APPROVED]
19:25:26 [Jan]
Topic: GZ3,IBM13
19:25:42 [jeanne]
present+ Alex, Greg, Jan, Jeanne, Sueann, Tim
19:25:47 [jeanne]
regrets+ Jutta
19:25:50 [Jan]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-au/2012AprJun/0059.html
19:27:50 [jeanne]
zakim, mute TIm
19:27:50 [Zakim]
Tim_Boland should now be muted
19:33:43 [Jan]
User agent: Any software that retrieves, renders and facilitates end user interaction with web content (e.g. web browsers, browser plug-ins, and media players). The W3C recommends that user agents follow the W3C-WAI User Agent Accessibility Guidelines (UAAG). However, many software products combine user agent and authoring tool functionality in various ways, including:
19:33:44 [Jan]
+ Preview-Only: When user agent functionality can only render web content that it receives from the authoring tool functionality (e.g. a preview mode in an HTML editor). Such preview-only features are not considered *in-market user agents*.
19:33:46 [Jan]
+ User Agent with Authoring Tool Mode: When user agent functionality must retrieve and open web content before it can be sent to the authoring tool functionality (e.g., browser with a built-in authoring tool).
19:33:47 [Jan]
+ Combined User Agent/Authoring Tool: When the default mode of the user agent enables editing the web content. Such tools do not require previews because the author is already experiencing the content in the same way as end users (e.g., word processor-style editors, wikis).
19:33:49 [Jan]
- In-Market User Agent: A user agent that is not *preview-only* and that can be procured by members of the public (free or otherwise).
19:34:18 [Jan]
Scribe: Jan
19:34:41 [alex]
alex has joined #au
19:38:55 [Jan]
zakim, unmute Tim
19:38:55 [Zakim]
Tim_Boland should no longer be muted
19:39:27 [Jan]
Resolved: Accept wording above for user agent definition
19:39:40 [Jan]
"previews: Views in which no authoring actions are provided (i.e., the view is not editable). Previews are provided to present the web content being edited by the authoring tool more or less as it would appear to end users of in-market user agents. Previews may be implemented using actual in-market user agents, but this is not necessary. See the definition of user agent for more information.
19:39:49 [Jan]
"User Agent Accessibility Guidelines (UAAG) Overview (This will be of special interest to developers of "Combined User Agent/Authoring Tools" and "User Agents with Authoring Tool Modes").
19:40:34 [Jan]
Resolved: All accept changes to preview and introduction bullet
19:40:51 [Zakim]
-Tim_Boland
19:40:54 [Jan]
Topic: IBM14
19:42:41 [Jan]
AUWG: The following clarification will be added: "If the authoring tool supports copy and paste of structured content, then any accessibility information (WCAG) in the copied content is preserved when the authoring tool is both the source and destination of the copy-paste and the source and destination use the same web content technology."
19:42:52 [Jan]
Resolved: All accept: "AUWG: The following clarification will be added: "If the authoring tool supports copy and paste of structured content, then any accessibility information (WCAG) in the copied content is preserved when the authoring tool is both the source and destination of the copy-paste and the source and destination use the same web content technology."
19:43:02 [Jan]
Topic: IBM16
19:44:22 [Jan]
AUWG: ATAG 2.0 has introduced a new conformance type for such situations: "Partial ATAG 2.0 Conformance - Platform Limitations (Level A, AA, or AAA) This conformance option may be selected when an authoring tool is unable to meet one or more success criteria because of intrinsic limitations of the platform (e.g., lacking a platform accessibility service). The (optional) explanation of...
19:44:24 [Jan]
...conformance claim results should explain what platform features are missing.
19:44:32 [Jan]
Resolved: All accept "AUWG: ATAG 2.0 has introduced a new conformance type for such situations: "Partial ATAG 2.0 Conformance - Platform Limitations (Level A, AA, or AAA) This conformance option may be selected when an authoring tool is unable to meet one or more success criteria because of intrinsic limitations of the platform (e.g., lacking a platform accessibility service). The (optional)...
19:44:33 [Jan]
...explanation of conformance claim results should explain what platform features are missing."
19:44:51 [Jan]
Topic: IBM15
19:46:16 [Jan]
AUWG: Optimizations do not involve any change in format. The definition is: "Optimizing Content Transformations: Transformations in which the content technology is not changed and the structural features of the content technology that are employed also stay the same. Changes would not be expected to result in information loss (e.g., removing whitespace, replacing in-line styles with an...
19:46:17 [Jan]
...external stylesheet).
19:46:26 [Jan]
Resolved: All accept: "AUWG: Optimizations do not involve any change in format. The definition is: "Optimizing Content Transformations: Transformations in which the content technology is not changed and the structural features of the content technology that are employed also stay the same. Changes would not be expected to result in information loss (e.g., removing whitespace, replacing...
19:46:27 [Jan]
...in-line styles with an external stylesheet)."
19:46:53 [Jan]
Topic: GZ4
19:48:39 [Jan]
AUWG: The Working Group has judged it infeasible to place accessibility markings throughout the interface as would probably be required to meet the suggested wording. B.2.4.2 is a special case because information about templates (e.g. their name, author, description, etc.) is already frequently displayed.
19:48:55 [Jan]
Resolved: All accept: AUWG: The Working Group has judged it infeasible to place accessibility markings throughout the interface as would probably be required to meet the suggested wording. B.2.4.2 is a special case because information about templates (e.g. their name, author, description, etc.) is already frequently displayed.
19:49:02 [Jan]
Topic: IBM22
19:52:04 [Jan]
AUWG: The term "checking" is clearly defined as encompassing manual checking and a note is also provided on the success criterion. The problem with cutting manual checking out of the definition of accessible checking is that there is a continuous progression of increasing automation that defies easy delineation.
19:52:34 [Jan]
Resolved: All accept: "AUWG: The term "checking" is clearly defined as encompassing manual checking and a note is also provided on the success criterion. The problem with cutting manual checking out of the definition of accessible checking is that there is a continuous progression of increasing automation that defies easy delineation."
19:53:04 [Jan]
Topic: IBM17
19:56:00 [Jan]
AUWG: Whether it is heavyweight depends on the design of the prompting. Unintrusive error detection, such as the red-underlining frequently employed for spell checking is often turned on by default.
19:58:55 [Jan]
"Note: This success criterion requires that features be on by default, but allows developers to provide authors with the option to turn them off or modify their settings."
19:59:02 [Jan]
AUWG: Whether it is heavyweight depends on the design of the prompting. Unintrusive error detection, such as the red-underlining frequently employed for spell checking is often turned on by default. A note that users can be given the option to turn off accessibility features appears in the intent: "Note: This success criterion requires that features be on by default, but allows developers to...
19:59:04 [Jan]
...provide authors with the option to turn them off or modify their settings."
19:59:21 [Jan]
AUWG: Whether it is heavyweight depends on the design of the prompting. Unintrusive error detection, such as the red-underlining frequently employed for spell checking is often turned on by default. A note that users can be given the option to turn off accessibility features has been added to the intent: "Note: This success criterion requires that features be on by default, but allows...
19:59:23 [Jan]
...developers to provide authors with the option to turn them off or modify their settings."
19:59:44 [Jan]
Resolved: All accept: AUWG: Whether it is heavyweight depends on the design of the prompting. Unintrusive error detection, such as the red-underlining frequently employed for spell checking is often turned on by default. A note that users can be given the option to turn off accessibility features appears in the intent: "Note: This success criterion requires that features be on by default,...
19:59:46 [Jan]
...but allows developers to provide authors with the option to turn them off or modify their settings."
20:00:58 [Zakim]
-Sueann
20:03:27 [Zakim]
-Alex
20:03:28 [Zakim]
-Jeanne
20:03:29 [Zakim]
-Jan
20:03:31 [Zakim]
WAI_AUWG()3:00PM has ended
20:03:31 [Zakim]
Attendees were Jan, Jeanne, Alex, Greg, +1.561.236.aaaa, Sueann, Tim_Boland
20:06:54 [Jan]
RRSAgent, make minutes
20:06:54 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/07/09-au-minutes.html Jan
20:07:01 [Jan]
RRSAgent, set logs public
20:07:08 [Jan]
Zakim, bye
20:07:08 [Zakim]
Zakim has left #au
20:07:15 [Jan]
RRSAgent, bye
20:07:15 [RRSAgent]
I see no action items