13:25:53 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #rd
13:25:53 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2012/07/04-rd-irc
13:25:55 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world
13:25:55 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #rd
13:25:57 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be 7394
13:25:57 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see WAI_RDWG()9:30AM scheduled to start in 5 minutes
13:25:58 <trackbot> Meeting: Research and Development Working Group Teleconference
13:25:58 <trackbot> Date: 04 July 2012
13:29:09 <sharper> sharper has joined #rd
13:29:16 <sharper> zakim, agenda?
13:29:16 <Zakim> I see nothing on the agenda
13:29:26 <sharper> trackbot, start meeting
13:29:26 <sharper> zakim, please clear the agenda
13:29:26 <Zakim> agenda cleared
13:29:28 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world
13:29:30 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be 7394
13:29:30 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see WAI_RDWG()9:30AM scheduled to start in 1 minute
13:29:31 <trackbot> Meeting: Research and Development Working Group Teleconference
13:29:31 <trackbot> Date: 04 July 2012
13:29:40 <sharper> Chair: Harper_Simon
13:29:40 <sharper> Agenda+ Welcome & Logistics (Regrets, Agenda Requests, Comments) [sharper]
13:29:40 <sharper> Agenda+ Mobile Topic Report Timetable (5m) [yeliz]
13:29:41 <sharper> Agenda+ Symposium Package Overview (10m) [shawn]
13:29:41 <sharper> Agenda+ TC and E2R Submission deadline - and extrapolate timeslines from this for both (40m) [all]
13:29:41 <sharper> Agenda+ Metrics W3C Note Status (5m)  [shadi]
13:29:42 <sharper> Agenda+ Any Other Business (Standing Item) [shadi]
13:29:47 <Zakim> WAI_RDWG()9:30AM has now started
13:29:53 <Zakim> +Shadi
13:29:56 <sharper> zakim, save agenda
13:30:02 <Zakim> ok, sharper, the agenda has been written to http://www.w3.org/2012/07/04-rd-agenda.rdf
13:30:03 <sharper> zakim, take up item 1
13:30:04 <Zakim> agendum 1. "Welcome & Logistics (Regrets, Agenda Requests, Comments)" taken up [from sharper]
13:30:14 <giorgio> giorgio has joined #rd
13:30:22 <sharper> regrets+ Yesilada_Yeliz
13:30:28 <Zakim> +Shawn
13:30:31 <sharper> regrets+ O'Connor_Joshue
13:30:43 <sharper> regrets+ Miesenberge_Klaus
13:30:58 <Zakim> +??P2
13:31:27 <Zakim> +??P3
13:31:34 <markel> markel has joined #rd
13:31:40 <shawn> zakim, ??P2 is Giorgio
13:31:40 <Zakim> +Giorgio; got it
13:31:50 <Zakim> +??P4
13:31:50 <shawn> zakim, ??P3 is Markel
13:31:51 <Zakim> +Markel; got it
13:32:03 <shawn> zakim, ??P4 is Simon 
13:32:03 <Zakim> +Simon; got it
13:32:45 <peter> peter has joined #rd
13:34:18 <Zakim> +??P5
13:34:27 <shawn> zakim, ??P5 is Peter
13:34:27 <Zakim> +Peter; got it
13:34:28 <peter> Zakim, ??P5 is me
13:34:29 <Zakim> I already had ??P5 as Peter, peter
13:35:38 <shawn> zakim, who is on the phone?
13:35:38 <Zakim> On the phone I see Shadi, Shawn, Giorgio, Markel, Simon, Peter
13:35:53 <Yehya> Yehya has joined #rd
13:36:12 <shadi> zakim, mute me
13:36:12 <Zakim> Shadi should now be muted
13:36:18 <shawn> zakim, mute me
13:36:18 <Zakim> Shawn should now be muted
13:36:19 <peter> scribe: peter
13:36:30 <peter> zakim, take up next
13:36:30 <Zakim> agendum 2. "Mobile Topic Report Timetable (5m)" taken up [from yeliz]
13:36:36 <peter> Zakim, mute me
13:36:36 <Zakim> Peter should now be muted
13:36:43 <Zakim> +Klaus/Johannes/Thomas
13:36:52 <peter> yes
13:36:57 <peter> Zakim, unmute me
13:36:57 <Zakim> Peter should no longer be muted
13:37:26 <peter> Simon: mobile topic plan - we have some general ideas of setting up the document (note)
13:37:40 <peter> … timeline proposed we're looking for a draft by mid September
13:37:53 <Yehya> zakim, +Klaus/Johannes/Thomas is Yehya
13:37:53 <Zakim> sorry, Yehya, I do not recognize a party named '+Klaus/Johannes/Thomas'
13:38:08 <peter> … we'll work on bits apart and then combine and then show the group
13:38:13 <Yehya> zakim, Klaus/Johannes/Thomas is Yehya
13:38:13 <Zakim> +Yehya; got it
13:38:33 <peter> … we'll follow the same procedure as the previous note for line by line editing
13:38:35 <shadi> q+
13:38:37 <shadi> ack me
13:38:59 <peter> Shadi: recap on timeline so mid september the draft comes to the group
13:39:25 <peter> … we'll have at least 3 weeks plus a survey review/approve
13:39:41 <peter> … plan for at least 4 weeks for a resolution to publish with the group
13:40:07 <peter> … for it to then become a a working draft for the public (around October)
13:40:32 <peter> Simon: I need to speak with the coordination group about this, in particular Judi's rode map on mobile
13:41:09 <peter> Shadi: right, might be a way to get early feedback
13:41:30 <shawn> [ internal draft mid-Sept (maybe bring outline or rough draft to RDWG & CG earlier) - RDWG review & approval to publish draft for public review (3 weeks) plus CG review - prep for public WD (1-2 weeks) ]
13:41:30 <peter> Simon: yah that might be an idea .. could be a parallel task of approval
13:41:34 <shadi> zakim, mute me
13:41:34 <Zakim> Shadi should now be muted
13:41:40 <peter> Zakim, take up next
13:41:40 <Zakim> agendum 3. "Symposium Package Overview (10m)" taken up [from shawn]
13:41:42 <shawn> ack me
13:41:53 <shawn> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-wai-rd/2012Jul/0001.html
13:42:14 <peter> Shawn: we got feedback from Yeliz and Josh - should we discuss/questions/..?
13:42:44 <shawn> http://www.w3.org/WAI/EO/Drafts/rd/home.html
13:42:53 <peter> Shawn: the issue of all caps/italics - acceptable as is for readability etc. for headings
13:43:06 <peter> … opinions?
13:43:16 <shawn> * Is the use of all caps and italics acceptable?
13:43:30 <peter> Simon: in general I want to thank you for this - I really like it ..
13:43:42 <shawn> design credit largely goes to Liam McGee :-)
13:43:50 <peter> … I have no problems with the italics/caps - big improvement
13:44:03 <sharper> zakim, q?
13:44:03 <Zakim> I see no one on the speaker queue
13:44:33 <peter> … we're all happy with this - Shawn will work with people who made comments ..
13:44:58 <peter> … can we resolve this?
13:45:00 <shadi> ack me
13:46:01 <peter> Simon: only want this to come back to the group if Shawn finds a conflict and is unresolvable
13:46:18 <peter> Shadi: we don't want to hold either up (previous note)
13:46:39 <peter> … unless big issues then we'll just notify the group of changes and go ahead
13:46:42 <peter> Simon: agreed
13:46:44 <shadi> zakim, mute me
13:46:44 <Zakim> Shadi should now be muted
13:47:05 <peter> RESOLUTION: Ok to go with this design no need to bring back the group unless unresolved issues
13:47:25 <peter> Zakim, take up next
13:47:25 <Zakim> agendum 4. "TC and E2R Submission deadline - and extrapolate timeslines from this for both (40m)" taken up [from all]
13:47:39 <peter> Simon: now this is about a submission deadline
13:47:50 <peter> … Shawn I've seen some emails about Linz? (shawn)
13:48:04 <peter> … should we talk about the submission date?
13:48:14 <peter> Shawn: I think it would be good to talk about general suggestions
13:48:35 <peter> … any changes in the default timeline.. we have a template timeline for approx in between dates
13:48:39 <sharper> http://www.w3.org/WAI/RD/wiki/Topic_3_Timeline
13:48:49 <peter> … for mobile we talk about rebuttal etc. making longer
13:49:13 <peter> Simon: timeline for 30th july which we aren't going to me (link)
13:49:33 <peter> Shawn: the planning over the last column, 2 weeks review/rebuttal ..
13:49:42 <peter> … that last column we need to decide on the default
13:50:07 <peter> … any comments on considerations for symposium/deadlines ie. holidays etc.
13:50:28 <peter> … and then come back with a proposal i. time for each thing, ii. consideration for dates
13:50:57 <peter> Simon: I have an app for dates on the conference and then outputs some dates +-15 weeks in the 
13:51:24 <peter> … if we decided Nov 1st, then easy to read 1st Dec, then 13 Sept deadline submissions, and announce the pre call 26 July, and then 9th aug full call
13:51:35 <peter> Shawn: I think we ned to revisit those dates
13:51:58 <peter> … right now we have 12 for the call, 8 weeks for deadline sub, 2 weeks to rev, 2 weeks rebuttal/rev.
13:52:11 <peter> … based on mobile experience is this good?
13:52:13 <shadi> ack me
13:52:31 <peter> Shadi: I do think that some of the timelines need to shift
13:53:37 <shadi> -15+ weeks: pre-call for papers
13:53:37 <shadi> -12 weeks: call for papers; scientific committee confirmed
13:53:37 <shadi> -8 weeks: paper deadline
13:53:37 <shadi> -6 weeks: feedback to paper authors; programm annopuncement
13:53:37 <shadi> -3 weeks: deadline for final papers
13:53:37 <shadi> -2 weeks: publication of accepted papers, registration opens
13:53:39 <shadi> Day X: online seminar
13:54:51 <peter> q+
13:55:01 <peter> Simon: looks reasonable (timeline)
13:55:48 <peter> … pushing them through this quickly means people don't have time to forget about it
13:55:52 <shadi> -15+ weeks: pre-call for papers
13:55:52 <shadi> -12 weeks: call for papers; scientific committee confirmed
13:55:52 <shadi> -7 weeks: paper deadline
13:55:52 <shadi> -5 weeks: feedback to paper authors; programm annopuncement
13:55:52 <shadi> -3 weeks: deadline for final papers
13:55:52 <shadi> -2 weeks: publication of accepted papers, registration opens
13:55:54 <shadi> Day X: online seminar
13:56:14 <peter> Shadi: shift down paper deadline to give ppl more time ..
13:56:23 <peter> … is that better?
13:56:44 <peter> Simon: this one might be fine as well
13:56:54 <markel> I'm happy with the one that gives more time to authors to prepare their submission
13:56:55 <peter> … give them a bit more time to write stuff
13:57:18 <peter> … these are suppose to be the latests to get calls out, so hope before this
13:57:28 <shawn> [ Shawn agrees to get the CfPs out as early as possible ]
13:57:28 <peter> … happy with either forms
13:57:53 <shawn> q?
13:57:56 <shadi> q+
13:58:00 <peter> ack me
13:58:22 <shadi> ack me
13:58:47 <shawn> +1 to having one week between final papers due and publication of them
13:58:48 <peter> Shadi: side note for this symposium - 2 tracks so the 2 weeks etc. might require some coordination
13:59:03 <peter> … editors/sci comm. need to be really available during this time
13:59:20 <peter> Shawn: might need a little more time for review
13:59:33 <peter> … time for talking about the split between symposiums
13:59:46 <peter> Shadi: so where does that take us
13:59:58 <shawn> NOTE: Chairs & Sci Committee need to be available during review time to address papers between 2 related symposia
14:00:03 <peter> …so we are kind of looking at October
14:00:56 <peter> Shawn: give the holidays I think it would be wise for a sub. in Sept if we're ok to put the Symp. later
14:01:26 <markel> I think that's too late
14:01:29 <peter> Simon: if I do that then we get a 5th for Nov the teleconference 10th Sept for submissions (dates right?)
14:01:51 <peter> … 5th of Nov for text cust. and then 3rd dec for easy to read
14:01:56 <sharper> zakim, q?
14:01:56 <Zakim> I see no one on the speaker queue
14:02:16 <peter> Shadi: is their an over lap with persons with disabilities day 
14:02:26 <peter> … might be good to have it on this day or..
14:02:35 <peter> Simon: could have on 3rd or 10th
14:02:43 <peter> Shadi: I'd rather pull it forward 19th ...
14:02:49 <peter> Simon: so we only have 2 weeks
14:02:53 <peter> Shawn: not sure it matters 
14:02:55 <peter> ..
14:03:26 <peter> Simon: might matter for ppl in Australia etc. 
14:03:45 <peter> Shawn: 26th won't work for ppl in the US .. or maybe ..
14:03:54 <peter> … no 22nd
14:04:07 <peter> … I think this is good - we have some ideas on dates
14:04:17 <peter> … I'll check dates on international calendars
14:04:39 <peter> … this is good guidance and then Klaus and I can collaborate and come come back on this
14:05:10 <peter> … may want to think about that date - conflicts with ppl's agenda etc..
14:05:29 <peter> Simon: don't know if this is a good or bad thing
14:05:46 <peter> Shadi: lets think about that 
14:05:48 <shawn> q+ leaning towards doing it on 3 Dec!
14:05:52 <Zakim> -Markel
14:05:55 <shawn> q+ to say leaning towards doing it on 3 Dec!
14:06:00 <peter> … doing something with cog. dis. on that day could be good to show our presence
14:06:06 <shawn> ack me
14:06:06 <Zakim> shawn, you wanted to say leaning towards doing it on 3 Dec!
14:06:21 <shadi> zakim, mute me
14:06:21 <Zakim> Shadi should now be muted
14:06:23 <peter> Shawn: preference to think about negatives but see a lot of positives for that day
14:07:10 <peter> *advisory for next steps: 5th of November and 3rd of December and Shawn and Klaus will hammer out dates
14:07:41 <peter> (thanks!! :-)
14:07:49 <peter> Zakim, take up next
14:07:49 <Zakim> agendum 5. "Metrics W3C Note Status (5m) " taken up [from shadi]
14:07:55 <shadi> ack me
14:08:09 <peter> Shadi: I want to check in on the open thread on bib text 
14:08:30 <peter> … question on mailing list - proper use of bib text - not really my area..
14:08:51 <peter> … I've been looking at entries/semantics and trying to understand it a bit more
14:09:01 <Zakim> +??P3
14:09:12 <markel> zakim, ??P3 is markel
14:09:12 <Zakim> +markel; got it
14:09:35 <peter> … I'm wondering about shifting that to using proceedings as the pub. and part of the proc. as part of the report..
14:09:42 <peter> … reactions?
14:09:48 <shadi> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-wai-rd/2012Jul/0006.html
14:09:54 <peter> Simon: I'd like to invite Giorgio?
14:10:00 <shadi> @proceedings {
14:10:00 <shadi>   title = {W3C/WAI Symposium on Website Accessibility Metrics},
14:10:00 <shadi>   ...
14:10:00 <shadi> }
14:10:00 <shadi> @inproceedings {
14:10:01 <shadi>   title = {Measuring Accessibility ...},
14:10:03 <shadi>   booktitle = {W3C/WAI Symposium on Website Accessibility Metrics},
14:10:07 <shadi>   ...
14:10:09 <shadi> }
14:10:11 <shadi> @incollection {
14:10:11 <peter> Giorgio: not really, I wasn't paying much attention to bib text issues
14:10:13 <shadi>   title = {Research Report on Web Accessibility Metrics},
14:10:15 <shadi>   booktitle = {W3C/WAI Symposium on Website Accessibility Metrics},
14:10:17 <shadi>   series = {W3C/WAI Research and Development Working Group (RDWG) Notes},
14:10:19 <shadi>   ...
14:10:21 <shadi> }
14:10:25 <peter> Markel: my opinion, I gave yesterday, it's not a big deal
14:10:39 <peter> … both look similar - I don't think it's a big deal
14:10:55 <peter> Shadi: I put my suggestions in IRC … (see above)
14:11:30 <shawn> looks good to me
14:11:40 <peter> … it seamed to me more semantically correct
14:11:54 <peter> Simon: I personally think that that's coherent … (bib text)
14:12:17 <peter> … I would suggest for the book title that it's about the set of notes generated from the symposium
14:12:41 <peter> … title ie. research report on web accessibility metrics ..
14:12:55 <peter> … so the book title remains consisten across all notes
14:13:03 <peter> Shawn: but isn't it part of a series
14:13:20 <peter> … we have the pub that is a symp. on metrics, a series that are these notes
14:13:38 <peter> Simon: that's kind of right but that's not how it's used in the academic domain..
14:14:02 <giorgio> q+
14:14:03 <markel> the optional fields tend not to be shown by latex 
14:14:17 <peter> … in reality I suppose it doesn't matter hugely
14:14:21 <sharper> ack gio
14:14:25 <peter> Giorgio: it doesn't matter that much
14:14:43 <peter> … one minor detail on typeset on bib text items into his/her paper - not a big issue here
14:14:46 <shawn> [ conceptually - proceedings include papers and report. report is also part of a series of RDWG publications ? ]
14:14:46 <peter> Simon: ok
14:14:58 <peter> Shadi: Shawn and I are trying to think in hypertext :-0
14:15:26 <peter> Simon: can we put this in as a plus one
14:15:31 <giorgio> +1
14:15:32 <shawn> +1
14:15:32 <peter> .. as Shadi proposes
14:15:35 <sharper> +1
14:15:37 <peter> +1
14:15:51 <markel> I stick to the original :-)
14:16:03 <Yehya> +1
14:16:07 <peter> RESOLUTION: going to take the proposal from Shadi (see above IRC)
14:16:35 <markel> lol
14:17:06 <peter> Markel: I'm happy with any of the options
14:17:14 <markel> yes, no problem at all
14:17:23 <peter> Shadi: I have no preference
14:17:32 <peter> … I was trying to think of meta data ..
14:17:51 <markel> good question
14:17:54 <shawn> [ /me too not know much about BibTeX and thinking conceptually :-]
14:17:54 <peter> Simon: talking of meta data is their a way to code the bib text into the meta data for each paper/page for search?
14:18:13 <sharper> http://dublincore.org/
14:18:27 <peter> Shadi: a colleague of Klaus is looking into the dublin core format ..
14:18:33 <peter> … not sure of best seo
14:18:49 <peter> Simon: good thing of dublin core is that we're able to get semantic links
14:20:07 <peter> Shadi: is ok to use bib text/dublin core/ … in combination?
14:20:20 <shawn> s/not sure of best seo/not sure of best seo - including for Google Scholar/
14:20:21 <sharper> http://bibtex2rdf.sourceforge.net/
14:20:47 <peter> Simon: we got this sorted
14:20:54 <markel> no
14:21:22 <shadi> zakim, mute me
14:21:22 <Zakim> Shadi should now be muted
14:21:27 <shawn> Shawn regrets 11 July & 18 July
14:21:39 <peter> Simon: what's people's availability for the coming weeks?
14:21:40 <shadi> Topic: Upcoming Availability
14:21:49 <shawn> zakim, mute me
14:21:49 <Zakim> Shawn should now be muted
14:21:49 <markel> I'm away on holyday, regrets for 11 of July
14:21:51 <shadi> ack me
14:22:02 <sharper> Simon regrets 18th and 25th July
14:22:29 <Yehya> regrets 11 July
14:22:50 <shadi> regrets for 11th and potentially 18th
14:22:54 <peter> Simon: suggest not the 11th
14:23:01 <peter> … and also not the 18th
14:23:27 <peter> … only me off on the 25th - could start again then with a firming up of the timeline
14:23:31 <shawn> ack me
14:23:35 <shadi> zakim, mute me
14:23:35 <Zakim> Shadi should now be muted
14:23:44 <peter> Shawn: I should be here and hopefully Klaus as well
14:23:53 <markel> i'll be away on the 25th too
14:24:15 <giorgio> +1
14:24:16 <markel> +1
14:24:17 <Yehya> +1
14:24:18 <peter> Simon: if that's ok I'll announce not the 11th,18th but start again on the 25th?
14:24:19 <shawn> +1
14:24:20 <peter> ..ok good
14:24:25 <shawn> zakim, mute me
14:24:25 <Zakim> Shawn should now be muted
14:24:29 <shadi> Topic: Wiki
14:24:30 <peter> Simon: would like to check the wiki
14:24:31 <sharper> http://www.w3.org/WAI/RD/wiki/Main_Page
14:24:43 <peter> … I'd like to pick topic 5
14:24:59 <peter> … I don't want to lose time … I want to get topic 5 and 6 sorted for end of year charter
14:25:11 <peter> … I also think our work is useful and it would be a shame to not make these deadlines
14:25:22 <peter> … anyone have a preference from the wiki - like to be editors on?
14:25:37 <shawn> [ also good to ask CG for suggestions :-]
14:26:17 <peter> suggests: Ubiquitous Web Accessibility  and or something on ARIA
14:26:42 <shadi> ack me
14:26:43 <peter> Shadi: talk of another topic?
14:26:59 <shawn> IndieUI?
14:27:15 <peter> … mooks?
14:27:25 <markel> what's that?
14:27:28 <sharper> accessibility of moocs
14:27:47 <sharper> MOOC - massive open online course
14:27:55 <shawn> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Massive_open_online_course
14:28:13 <peter> Shadi: this may be related to some of online education ..
14:28:49 <peter> Shadi: I think indieUI and cloud computing - both topics may be an interesting followup to the mobile topic
14:28:53 <sharper> Software as a Service (SaaS)
14:28:55 <markel> agree with Shadi that Cloud Computing and IndyUI look as good candidates
14:28:58 <peter> … deeper into gestures or people on the move ..
14:29:09 <peter> sounds fun!
14:29:18 <shawn> coordinate with Raising the Floor & GPII
14:29:22 <peter> Simon: we need to think about editors ..
14:30:02 <peter> … I'm going to put this on as a topic for the 25th - where do we go for topic 5 ..
14:30:21 <peter> … and how are we going to get editors ..
14:30:34 <sharper> zakim, q?
14:30:34 <Zakim> I see no one on the speaker queue
14:31:12 <shawn> ack me
14:31:15 <peter> Simon: try to share my excel sheet on google docs to work out dates 
14:31:20 <shadi> ack me
14:31:31 <peter> Shawn: I don't need it .. but if you want to that's fine ..
14:31:43 <markel> bye guys! have a good one!
14:31:44 <giorgio> bye
14:31:46 <peter> bye
14:31:50 <Zakim> -Shadi
14:31:53 <Zakim> -Giorgio
14:31:54 <Zakim> -markel
14:31:55 <Zakim> -Yehya
14:31:57 <Zakim> -Shawn
14:32:01 <Zakim> -Peter
14:32:02 <Zakim> WAI_RDWG()9:30AM has ended
14:32:02 <Zakim> Attendees were Shadi, Shawn, Giorgio, Markel, Simon, Peter, Yehya
14:32:33 <shadi> trackbot, end meeting
14:32:33 <trackbot> Zakim, list attendees
14:32:33 <Zakim> sorry, trackbot, I don't know what conference this is
14:32:41 <trackbot> RRSAgent, please draft minutes