IRC log of rd on 2012-07-04

Timestamps are in UTC.

13:25:53 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #rd
13:25:53 [RRSAgent]
logging to
13:25:55 [trackbot]
RRSAgent, make logs world
13:25:55 [Zakim]
Zakim has joined #rd
13:25:57 [trackbot]
Zakim, this will be 7394
13:25:57 [Zakim]
ok, trackbot; I see WAI_RDWG()9:30AM scheduled to start in 5 minutes
13:25:58 [trackbot]
Meeting: Research and Development Working Group Teleconference
13:25:58 [trackbot]
Date: 04 July 2012
13:29:09 [sharper]
sharper has joined #rd
13:29:16 [sharper]
zakim, agenda?
13:29:16 [Zakim]
I see nothing on the agenda
13:29:26 [sharper]
trackbot, start meeting
13:29:26 [sharper]
zakim, please clear the agenda
13:29:26 [Zakim]
agenda cleared
13:29:28 [trackbot]
RRSAgent, make logs world
13:29:30 [trackbot]
Zakim, this will be 7394
13:29:30 [Zakim]
ok, trackbot; I see WAI_RDWG()9:30AM scheduled to start in 1 minute
13:29:31 [trackbot]
Meeting: Research and Development Working Group Teleconference
13:29:31 [trackbot]
Date: 04 July 2012
13:29:40 [sharper]
Chair: Harper_Simon
13:29:40 [sharper]
Agenda+ Welcome & Logistics (Regrets, Agenda Requests, Comments) [sharper]
13:29:40 [sharper]
Agenda+ Mobile Topic Report Timetable (5m) [yeliz]
13:29:41 [sharper]
Agenda+ Symposium Package Overview (10m) [shawn]
13:29:41 [sharper]
Agenda+ TC and E2R Submission deadline - and extrapolate timeslines from this for both (40m) [all]
13:29:41 [sharper]
Agenda+ Metrics W3C Note Status (5m) [shadi]
13:29:42 [sharper]
Agenda+ Any Other Business (Standing Item) [shadi]
13:29:47 [Zakim]
WAI_RDWG()9:30AM has now started
13:29:53 [Zakim]
13:29:56 [sharper]
zakim, save agenda
13:30:02 [Zakim]
ok, sharper, the agenda has been written to
13:30:03 [sharper]
zakim, take up item 1
13:30:04 [Zakim]
agendum 1. "Welcome & Logistics (Regrets, Agenda Requests, Comments)" taken up [from sharper]
13:30:14 [giorgio]
giorgio has joined #rd
13:30:22 [sharper]
regrets+ Yesilada_Yeliz
13:30:28 [Zakim]
13:30:31 [sharper]
regrets+ O'Connor_Joshue
13:30:43 [sharper]
regrets+ Miesenberge_Klaus
13:30:58 [Zakim]
13:31:27 [Zakim]
13:31:34 [markel]
markel has joined #rd
13:31:40 [shawn]
zakim, ??P2 is Giorgio
13:31:40 [Zakim]
+Giorgio; got it
13:31:50 [Zakim]
13:31:50 [shawn]
zakim, ??P3 is Markel
13:31:51 [Zakim]
+Markel; got it
13:32:03 [shawn]
zakim, ??P4 is Simon
13:32:03 [Zakim]
+Simon; got it
13:32:45 [peter]
peter has joined #rd
13:34:18 [Zakim]
13:34:27 [shawn]
zakim, ??P5 is Peter
13:34:27 [Zakim]
+Peter; got it
13:34:28 [peter]
Zakim, ??P5 is me
13:34:29 [Zakim]
I already had ??P5 as Peter, peter
13:35:38 [shawn]
zakim, who is on the phone?
13:35:38 [Zakim]
On the phone I see Shadi, Shawn, Giorgio, Markel, Simon, Peter
13:35:53 [Yehya]
Yehya has joined #rd
13:36:12 [shadi]
zakim, mute me
13:36:12 [Zakim]
Shadi should now be muted
13:36:18 [shawn]
zakim, mute me
13:36:18 [Zakim]
Shawn should now be muted
13:36:19 [peter]
scribe: peter
13:36:30 [peter]
zakim, take up next
13:36:30 [Zakim]
agendum 2. "Mobile Topic Report Timetable (5m)" taken up [from yeliz]
13:36:36 [peter]
Zakim, mute me
13:36:36 [Zakim]
Peter should now be muted
13:36:43 [Zakim]
13:36:52 [peter]
13:36:57 [peter]
Zakim, unmute me
13:36:57 [Zakim]
Peter should no longer be muted
13:37:26 [peter]
Simon: mobile topic plan - we have some general ideas of setting up the document (note)
13:37:40 [peter]
… timeline proposed we're looking for a draft by mid September
13:37:53 [Yehya]
zakim, +Klaus/Johannes/Thomas is Yehya
13:37:53 [Zakim]
sorry, Yehya, I do not recognize a party named '+Klaus/Johannes/Thomas'
13:38:08 [peter]
… we'll work on bits apart and then combine and then show the group
13:38:13 [Yehya]
zakim, Klaus/Johannes/Thomas is Yehya
13:38:13 [Zakim]
+Yehya; got it
13:38:33 [peter]
… we'll follow the same procedure as the previous note for line by line editing
13:38:35 [shadi]
13:38:37 [shadi]
ack me
13:38:59 [peter]
Shadi: recap on timeline so mid september the draft comes to the group
13:39:25 [peter]
… we'll have at least 3 weeks plus a survey review/approve
13:39:41 [peter]
… plan for at least 4 weeks for a resolution to publish with the group
13:40:07 [peter]
… for it to then become a a working draft for the public (around October)
13:40:32 [peter]
Simon: I need to speak with the coordination group about this, in particular Judi's rode map on mobile
13:41:09 [peter]
Shadi: right, might be a way to get early feedback
13:41:30 [shawn]
[ internal draft mid-Sept (maybe bring outline or rough draft to RDWG & CG earlier) - RDWG review & approval to publish draft for public review (3 weeks) plus CG review - prep for public WD (1-2 weeks) ]
13:41:30 [peter]
Simon: yah that might be an idea .. could be a parallel task of approval
13:41:34 [shadi]
zakim, mute me
13:41:34 [Zakim]
Shadi should now be muted
13:41:40 [peter]
Zakim, take up next
13:41:40 [Zakim]
agendum 3. "Symposium Package Overview (10m)" taken up [from shawn]
13:41:42 [shawn]
ack me
13:41:53 [shawn]
13:42:14 [peter]
Shawn: we got feedback from Yeliz and Josh - should we discuss/questions/..?
13:42:44 [shawn]
13:42:53 [peter]
Shawn: the issue of all caps/italics - acceptable as is for readability etc. for headings
13:43:06 [peter]
… opinions?
13:43:16 [shawn]
* Is the use of all caps and italics acceptable?
13:43:30 [peter]
Simon: in general I want to thank you for this - I really like it ..
13:43:42 [shawn]
design credit largely goes to Liam McGee :-)
13:43:50 [peter]
… I have no problems with the italics/caps - big improvement
13:44:03 [sharper]
zakim, q?
13:44:03 [Zakim]
I see no one on the speaker queue
13:44:33 [peter]
… we're all happy with this - Shawn will work with people who made comments ..
13:44:58 [peter]
… can we resolve this?
13:45:00 [shadi]
ack me
13:46:01 [peter]
Simon: only want this to come back to the group if Shawn finds a conflict and is unresolvable
13:46:18 [peter]
Shadi: we don't want to hold either up (previous note)
13:46:39 [peter]
… unless big issues then we'll just notify the group of changes and go ahead
13:46:42 [peter]
Simon: agreed
13:46:44 [shadi]
zakim, mute me
13:46:44 [Zakim]
Shadi should now be muted
13:47:05 [peter]
RESOLUTION: Ok to go with this design no need to bring back the group unless unresolved issues
13:47:25 [peter]
Zakim, take up next
13:47:25 [Zakim]
agendum 4. "TC and E2R Submission deadline - and extrapolate timeslines from this for both (40m)" taken up [from all]
13:47:39 [peter]
Simon: now this is about a submission deadline
13:47:50 [peter]
… Shawn I've seen some emails about Linz? (shawn)
13:48:04 [peter]
… should we talk about the submission date?
13:48:14 [peter]
Shawn: I think it would be good to talk about general suggestions
13:48:35 [peter]
… any changes in the default timeline.. we have a template timeline for approx in between dates
13:48:39 [sharper]
13:48:49 [peter]
… for mobile we talk about rebuttal etc. making longer
13:49:13 [peter]
Simon: timeline for 30th july which we aren't going to me (link)
13:49:33 [peter]
Shawn: the planning over the last column, 2 weeks review/rebuttal ..
13:49:42 [peter]
… that last column we need to decide on the default
13:50:07 [peter]
… any comments on considerations for symposium/deadlines ie. holidays etc.
13:50:28 [peter]
… and then come back with a proposal i. time for each thing, ii. consideration for dates
13:50:57 [peter]
Simon: I have an app for dates on the conference and then outputs some dates +-15 weeks in the
13:51:24 [peter]
… if we decided Nov 1st, then easy to read 1st Dec, then 13 Sept deadline submissions, and announce the pre call 26 July, and then 9th aug full call
13:51:35 [peter]
Shawn: I think we ned to revisit those dates
13:51:58 [peter]
… right now we have 12 for the call, 8 weeks for deadline sub, 2 weeks to rev, 2 weeks rebuttal/rev.
13:52:11 [peter]
… based on mobile experience is this good?
13:52:13 [shadi]
ack me
13:52:31 [peter]
Shadi: I do think that some of the timelines need to shift
13:53:37 [shadi]
-15+ weeks: pre-call for papers
13:53:37 [shadi]
-12 weeks: call for papers; scientific committee confirmed
13:53:37 [shadi]
-8 weeks: paper deadline
13:53:37 [shadi]
-6 weeks: feedback to paper authors; programm annopuncement
13:53:37 [shadi]
-3 weeks: deadline for final papers
13:53:37 [shadi]
-2 weeks: publication of accepted papers, registration opens
13:53:39 [shadi]
Day X: online seminar
13:54:51 [peter]
13:55:01 [peter]
Simon: looks reasonable (timeline)
13:55:48 [peter]
… pushing them through this quickly means people don't have time to forget about it
13:55:52 [shadi]
-15+ weeks: pre-call for papers
13:55:52 [shadi]
-12 weeks: call for papers; scientific committee confirmed
13:55:52 [shadi]
-7 weeks: paper deadline
13:55:52 [shadi]
-5 weeks: feedback to paper authors; programm annopuncement
13:55:52 [shadi]
-3 weeks: deadline for final papers
13:55:52 [shadi]
-2 weeks: publication of accepted papers, registration opens
13:55:54 [shadi]
Day X: online seminar
13:56:14 [peter]
Shadi: shift down paper deadline to give ppl more time ..
13:56:23 [peter]
… is that better?
13:56:44 [peter]
Simon: this one might be fine as well
13:56:54 [markel]
I'm happy with the one that gives more time to authors to prepare their submission
13:56:55 [peter]
… give them a bit more time to write stuff
13:57:18 [peter]
… these are suppose to be the latests to get calls out, so hope before this
13:57:28 [shawn]
[ Shawn agrees to get the CfPs out as early as possible ]
13:57:28 [peter]
… happy with either forms
13:57:53 [shawn]
13:57:56 [shadi]
13:58:00 [peter]
ack me
13:58:22 [shadi]
ack me
13:58:47 [shawn]
+1 to having one week between final papers due and publication of them
13:58:48 [peter]
Shadi: side note for this symposium - 2 tracks so the 2 weeks etc. might require some coordination
13:59:03 [peter]
… editors/sci comm. need to be really available during this time
13:59:20 [peter]
Shawn: might need a little more time for review
13:59:33 [peter]
… time for talking about the split between symposiums
13:59:46 [peter]
Shadi: so where does that take us
13:59:58 [shawn]
NOTE: Chairs & Sci Committee need to be available during review time to address papers between 2 related symposia
14:00:03 [peter]
…so we are kind of looking at October
14:00:56 [peter]
Shawn: give the holidays I think it would be wise for a sub. in Sept if we're ok to put the Symp. later
14:01:26 [markel]
I think that's too late
14:01:29 [peter]
Simon: if I do that then we get a 5th for Nov the teleconference 10th Sept for submissions (dates right?)
14:01:51 [peter]
… 5th of Nov for text cust. and then 3rd dec for easy to read
14:01:56 [sharper]
zakim, q?
14:01:56 [Zakim]
I see no one on the speaker queue
14:02:16 [peter]
Shadi: is their an over lap with persons with disabilities day
14:02:26 [peter]
… might be good to have it on this day or..
14:02:35 [peter]
Simon: could have on 3rd or 10th
14:02:43 [peter]
Shadi: I'd rather pull it forward 19th ...
14:02:49 [peter]
Simon: so we only have 2 weeks
14:02:53 [peter]
Shawn: not sure it matters
14:02:55 [peter]
14:03:26 [peter]
Simon: might matter for ppl in Australia etc.
14:03:45 [peter]
Shawn: 26th won't work for ppl in the US .. or maybe ..
14:03:54 [peter]
… no 22nd
14:04:07 [peter]
… I think this is good - we have some ideas on dates
14:04:17 [peter]
… I'll check dates on international calendars
14:04:39 [peter]
… this is good guidance and then Klaus and I can collaborate and come come back on this
14:05:10 [peter]
… may want to think about that date - conflicts with ppl's agenda etc..
14:05:29 [peter]
Simon: don't know if this is a good or bad thing
14:05:46 [peter]
Shadi: lets think about that
14:05:48 [shawn]
q+ leaning towards doing it on 3 Dec!
14:05:52 [Zakim]
14:05:55 [shawn]
q+ to say leaning towards doing it on 3 Dec!
14:06:00 [peter]
… doing something with cog. dis. on that day could be good to show our presence
14:06:06 [shawn]
ack me
14:06:06 [Zakim]
shawn, you wanted to say leaning towards doing it on 3 Dec!
14:06:21 [shadi]
zakim, mute me
14:06:21 [Zakim]
Shadi should now be muted
14:06:23 [peter]
Shawn: preference to think about negatives but see a lot of positives for that day
14:07:10 [peter]
*advisory for next steps: 5th of November and 3rd of December and Shawn and Klaus will hammer out dates
14:07:41 [peter]
(thanks!! :-)
14:07:49 [peter]
Zakim, take up next
14:07:49 [Zakim]
agendum 5. "Metrics W3C Note Status (5m) " taken up [from shadi]
14:07:55 [shadi]
ack me
14:08:09 [peter]
Shadi: I want to check in on the open thread on bib text
14:08:30 [peter]
… question on mailing list - proper use of bib text - not really my area..
14:08:51 [peter]
… I've been looking at entries/semantics and trying to understand it a bit more
14:09:01 [Zakim]
14:09:12 [markel]
zakim, ??P3 is markel
14:09:12 [Zakim]
+markel; got it
14:09:35 [peter]
… I'm wondering about shifting that to using proceedings as the pub. and part of the proc. as part of the report..
14:09:42 [peter]
… reactions?
14:09:48 [shadi]
14:09:54 [peter]
Simon: I'd like to invite Giorgio?
14:10:00 [shadi]
@proceedings {
14:10:00 [shadi]
title = {W3C/WAI Symposium on Website Accessibility Metrics},
14:10:00 [shadi]
14:10:00 [shadi]
14:10:00 [shadi]
@inproceedings {
14:10:01 [shadi]
title = {Measuring Accessibility ...},
14:10:03 [shadi]
booktitle = {W3C/WAI Symposium on Website Accessibility Metrics},
14:10:07 [shadi]
14:10:09 [shadi]
14:10:11 [shadi]
@incollection {
14:10:11 [peter]
Giorgio: not really, I wasn't paying much attention to bib text issues
14:10:13 [shadi]
title = {Research Report on Web Accessibility Metrics},
14:10:15 [shadi]
booktitle = {W3C/WAI Symposium on Website Accessibility Metrics},
14:10:17 [shadi]
series = {W3C/WAI Research and Development Working Group (RDWG) Notes},
14:10:19 [shadi]
14:10:21 [shadi]
14:10:25 [peter]
Markel: my opinion, I gave yesterday, it's not a big deal
14:10:39 [peter]
… both look similar - I don't think it's a big deal
14:10:55 [peter]
Shadi: I put my suggestions in IRC … (see above)
14:11:30 [shawn]
looks good to me
14:11:40 [peter]
… it seamed to me more semantically correct
14:11:54 [peter]
Simon: I personally think that that's coherent … (bib text)
14:12:17 [peter]
… I would suggest for the book title that it's about the set of notes generated from the symposium
14:12:41 [peter]
… title ie. research report on web accessibility metrics ..
14:12:55 [peter]
… so the book title remains consisten across all notes
14:13:03 [peter]
Shawn: but isn't it part of a series
14:13:20 [peter]
… we have the pub that is a symp. on metrics, a series that are these notes
14:13:38 [peter]
Simon: that's kind of right but that's not how it's used in the academic domain..
14:14:02 [giorgio]
14:14:03 [markel]
the optional fields tend not to be shown by latex
14:14:17 [peter]
… in reality I suppose it doesn't matter hugely
14:14:21 [sharper]
ack gio
14:14:25 [peter]
Giorgio: it doesn't matter that much
14:14:43 [peter]
… one minor detail on typeset on bib text items into his/her paper - not a big issue here
14:14:46 [shawn]
[ conceptually - proceedings include papers and report. report is also part of a series of RDWG publications ? ]
14:14:46 [peter]
Simon: ok
14:14:58 [peter]
Shadi: Shawn and I are trying to think in hypertext :-0
14:15:26 [peter]
Simon: can we put this in as a plus one
14:15:31 [giorgio]
14:15:32 [shawn]
14:15:32 [peter]
.. as Shadi proposes
14:15:35 [sharper]
14:15:37 [peter]
14:15:51 [markel]
I stick to the original :-)
14:16:03 [Yehya]
14:16:07 [peter]
RESOLUTION: going to take the proposal from Shadi (see above IRC)
14:16:35 [markel]
14:17:06 [peter]
Markel: I'm happy with any of the options
14:17:14 [markel]
yes, no problem at all
14:17:23 [peter]
Shadi: I have no preference
14:17:32 [peter]
… I was trying to think of meta data ..
14:17:51 [markel]
good question
14:17:54 [shawn]
[ /me too not know much about BibTeX and thinking conceptually :-]
14:17:54 [peter]
Simon: talking of meta data is their a way to code the bib text into the meta data for each paper/page for search?
14:18:13 [sharper]
14:18:27 [peter]
Shadi: a colleague of Klaus is looking into the dublin core format ..
14:18:33 [peter]
… not sure of best seo
14:18:49 [peter]
Simon: good thing of dublin core is that we're able to get semantic links
14:20:07 [peter]
Shadi: is ok to use bib text/dublin core/ … in combination?
14:20:20 [shawn]
s/not sure of best seo/not sure of best seo - including for Google Scholar/
14:20:21 [sharper]
14:20:47 [peter]
Simon: we got this sorted
14:20:54 [markel]
14:21:22 [shadi]
zakim, mute me
14:21:22 [Zakim]
Shadi should now be muted
14:21:27 [shawn]
Shawn regrets 11 July & 18 July
14:21:39 [peter]
Simon: what's people's availability for the coming weeks?
14:21:40 [shadi]
Topic: Upcoming Availability
14:21:49 [shawn]
zakim, mute me
14:21:49 [Zakim]
Shawn should now be muted
14:21:49 [markel]
I'm away on holyday, regrets for 11 of July
14:21:51 [shadi]
ack me
14:22:02 [sharper]
Simon regrets 18th and 25th July
14:22:29 [Yehya]
regrets 11 July
14:22:50 [shadi]
regrets for 11th and potentially 18th
14:22:54 [peter]
Simon: suggest not the 11th
14:23:01 [peter]
… and also not the 18th
14:23:27 [peter]
… only me off on the 25th - could start again then with a firming up of the timeline
14:23:31 [shawn]
ack me
14:23:35 [shadi]
zakim, mute me
14:23:35 [Zakim]
Shadi should now be muted
14:23:44 [peter]
Shawn: I should be here and hopefully Klaus as well
14:23:53 [markel]
i'll be away on the 25th too
14:24:15 [giorgio]
14:24:16 [markel]
14:24:17 [Yehya]
14:24:18 [peter]
Simon: if that's ok I'll announce not the 11th,18th but start again on the 25th?
14:24:19 [shawn]
14:24:20 [peter]
..ok good
14:24:25 [shawn]
zakim, mute me
14:24:25 [Zakim]
Shawn should now be muted
14:24:29 [shadi]
Topic: Wiki
14:24:30 [peter]
Simon: would like to check the wiki
14:24:31 [sharper]
14:24:43 [peter]
… I'd like to pick topic 5
14:24:59 [peter]
… I don't want to lose time … I want to get topic 5 and 6 sorted for end of year charter
14:25:11 [peter]
… I also think our work is useful and it would be a shame to not make these deadlines
14:25:22 [peter]
… anyone have a preference from the wiki - like to be editors on?
14:25:37 [shawn]
[ also good to ask CG for suggestions :-]
14:26:17 [peter]
suggests: Ubiquitous Web Accessibility and or something on ARIA
14:26:42 [shadi]
ack me
14:26:43 [peter]
Shadi: talk of another topic?
14:26:59 [shawn]
14:27:15 [peter]
… mooks?
14:27:25 [markel]
what's that?
14:27:28 [sharper]
accessibility of moocs
14:27:47 [sharper]
MOOC - massive open online course
14:27:55 [shawn]
14:28:13 [peter]
Shadi: this may be related to some of online education ..
14:28:49 [peter]
Shadi: I think indieUI and cloud computing - both topics may be an interesting followup to the mobile topic
14:28:53 [sharper]
Software as a Service (SaaS)
14:28:55 [markel]
agree with Shadi that Cloud Computing and IndyUI look as good candidates
14:28:58 [peter]
… deeper into gestures or people on the move ..
14:29:09 [peter]
sounds fun!
14:29:18 [shawn]
coordinate with Raising the Floor & GPII
14:29:22 [peter]
Simon: we need to think about editors ..
14:30:02 [peter]
… I'm going to put this on as a topic for the 25th - where do we go for topic 5 ..
14:30:21 [peter]
… and how are we going to get editors ..
14:30:34 [sharper]
zakim, q?
14:30:34 [Zakim]
I see no one on the speaker queue
14:31:12 [shawn]
ack me
14:31:15 [peter]
Simon: try to share my excel sheet on google docs to work out dates
14:31:20 [shadi]
ack me
14:31:31 [peter]
Shawn: I don't need it .. but if you want to that's fine ..
14:31:43 [markel]
bye guys! have a good one!
14:31:44 [giorgio]
14:31:46 [peter]
14:31:50 [Zakim]
14:31:53 [Zakim]
14:31:54 [Zakim]
14:31:55 [Zakim]
14:31:57 [Zakim]
14:32:01 [Zakim]
14:32:02 [Zakim]
WAI_RDWG()9:30AM has ended
14:32:02 [Zakim]
Attendees were Shadi, Shawn, Giorgio, Markel, Simon, Peter, Yehya
14:32:33 [shadi]
trackbot, end meeting
14:32:33 [trackbot]
Zakim, list attendees
14:32:33 [Zakim]
sorry, trackbot, I don't know what conference this is
14:32:41 [trackbot]
RRSAgent, please draft minutes
14:32:42 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate trackbot