08:52:51 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #mlw-lt
08:52:51 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2012/06/28-mlw-lt-irc
08:52:54 <fsasaki> chair: felix
08:52:58 <fsasaki> scribe: tbd
09:04:42 <mhellwig> mhellwig has joined #mlw-lt
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09:05:53 <fsasaki> scribeNick: fsasaki
09:06:47 <fsasaki> topic: Your topics related to your WPs
09:07:30 <fsasaki> declan: in WP4 and WP5, doing work in tandem
09:07:43 <fsasaki> .. a lot of wrapper technologies will be both for trainign and translation result
09:08:03 <fsasaki> felix: will domain also play a role in both WPs?
09:08:13 <fsasaki> declan: depends on actual test data that we'll use
09:08:47 <fsasaki> topic: our internal infrastructure
09:08:53 <fsasaki> https://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/ec-internal/wiki/Main_Page
09:09:03 <fsasaki> lists.w3.org/Archives/Team/multilingualweb-lt-partners/ 
09:10:00 <fsasaki> moritz: will have a meeting 16-17 July with potential customers
09:10:09 <fsasaki> .. has been going to slow so far, but will be fine
09:10:18 <fsasaki> topic: Next call
09:10:47 <fsasaki> felix - will schedule a call end of July
09:11:35 <mhellwig> DrupalCon Munich August 20th through 24th, 2012
09:11:49 <fsasaki> dublin: last week of July would be good
09:11:58 <fsasaki> .. after that we'll kick in with implementation work
09:12:23 <fsasaki> .. so first week of august would be better for me
09:12:27 <fsasaki> s/dublin/declan/
09:13:05 <fsasaki> topic: Your opinion on time schedule
09:13:13 <fsasaki> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb-lt/2012Jun/0133.html
09:14:00 <fsasaki> declan: time schedule would work for me
09:14:04 <fsasaki> for moritz too
09:14:32 <fsasaki> topic: implementations related to data categories
09:14:33 <fsasaki> https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AvFh3PcCczdRdF9mZ1UyS3VXT2pNNnllLWtQa0lFOFE#gid=0
09:16:02 <fsasaki> declan: will fill that in early next week
09:16:05 <fsasaki> topic: Your input on potential candidates for reserved budget
09:18:10 <fsasaki> declan: would be worth into looking into content provider
09:19:51 <fsasaki> moritz: agree with above - tilde is interesting for us esp.
09:22:50 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/06/28-mlw-lt-minutes.html fsasaki
09:23:22 <fsasaki> topic: MLW-LT WP leader call
09:23:23 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/06/28-mlw-lt-minutes.html fsasaki
09:23:47 <fsasaki> meeting: MLW-LT WP leader call
09:23:48 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/06/28-mlw-lt-minutes.html fsasaki
09:24:34 <fsasaki> present: moritz, declan, felix
09:24:35 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/06/28-mlw-lt-minutes.html fsasaki
09:26:41 <fsasaki> rrsagent, bye
09:26:41 <RRSAgent> I see no action items
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13:45:55 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2012/06/28-mlw-lt-irc
13:45:59 <fsasaki> meeting: MLW-LT WG
13:46:03 <fsasaki> chair: felix
13:46:16 <fsasaki> agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb-lt/2012Jun/0159.html
13:46:19 <fsasaki> scribe: tbd
13:51:40 <fsasaki> regrets: olaf
13:53:24 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #mlw-lt
13:57:53 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/06/28-mlw-lt-minutes.html fsasaki
13:58:14 <fsasaki> agenda+ actions
13:58:34 <fsasaki> agenda+ general reminder about july
13:58:52 <fsasaki> agenda+ general reminder for september
13:59:27 <mhellwig> mhellwig has joined #mlw-lt
13:59:33 <fsasaki> agenda+ propose to close issue-3
13:59:34 <mlefranc> mlefranc has joined #mlw-lt
13:59:51 <fsasaki> agenda+ propose to close issue-23
13:59:52 <shaunm> shaunm has joined #mlw-lt
13:59:55 <fsasaki> agenda+ propose to close issue-1
14:00:00 <fsasaki> agenda+ propose to close issue-6
14:00:03 <Jirka> Jirka has joined #mlw-lt
14:00:14 <fsasaki> agenda+ volunteer for issue-9
14:00:21 <fsasaki> agenda+ issue-13
14:00:27 <fsasaki> agenda+ issue-16
14:00:33 <fsasaki> agenda+ issue-24
14:00:33 <Jirka> Hi, I don't see gotomeeting details in agenda, can someone post it here pls?
14:00:43 <fsasaki> agenda+ rdf serialization
14:00:50 <fsasaki> agenda+ terminology discussion
14:01:17 <fsasaki> hi all, gotomeeting id is 682416317
14:01:39 <Jirka> thx
14:03:02 <fsasaki> present: dave, felix, dom, maxime, moritz, jirka, shaun
14:03:03 <daveL> daveL has joined #mlw-lt
14:03:21 <shaunm> can anybody link me the call-in details? I can't seem to find them
14:03:34 <fsasaki> hi shaun , the meeting id is 682416317
14:04:08 <fsasaki> you can follow this link: https://global.gotomeeting.com/join/682416317
14:04:32 <fsasaki> present+ tadej
14:05:06 <Des> Des has joined #mlw-lt
14:05:30 <tadej> tadej has joined #mlw-lt
14:05:40 <fsasaki> hi des, you can follow this link to join us on the phone : https://global.gotomeeting.com/join/682416317
14:05:44 <fsasaki> present+ des
14:05:49 <DomJones> DomJones has joined #mlw-lt
14:06:11 <Des> I'm jisut downloading it just now Felix. Be on in a minute or so
14:06:25 <fsasaki> scribe: tadej
14:06:34 <tadej> rrsagent, draft minutes
14:06:34 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/06/28-mlw-lt-minutes.html tadej
14:06:49 <fsasaki> topic: agenda
14:06:50 <fsasaki> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb-lt/2012Jun/0159.html
14:07:05 <fsasaki> topic: last weeks minutes
14:07:13 <fsasaki> http://www.w3.org/2012/06/21-mlw-lt-minutes.html
14:07:26 <fsasaki> no comments
14:07:36 <fsasaki> topic: action items
14:07:44 <fsasaki> action-135?
14:07:44 <trackbot> ACTION-135 -- Pedro Luis Díez Orzas to pedro to have Giuseppe to flesh out specialRequirements -- due 2012-06-22 -- OPEN
14:07:44 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/track/actions/135
14:07:53 <fsasaki> action-126?
14:07:53 <trackbot> ACTION-126 -- David Filip to david to come up with a proposal for mtConfidence -- due 2012-07-02 -- OPEN
14:07:53 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/track/actions/126
14:08:29 <fsasaki> action-126 due to next thursday
14:08:29 <trackbot> ACTION-126 David to come up with a proposal for mtConfidence due date now to next thursday
14:08:38 <fsasaki> action-107?
14:08:38 <trackbot> ACTION-107 -- Shaun McCance to flesh out locale proposal -- due 2012-07-05 -- OPEN
14:08:38 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/track/actions/107
14:08:55 <fsasaki> action-107 next thursday
14:09:16 <fsasaki> close action-141
14:09:16 <trackbot> ACTION-141 Table in a staging wiki page to notify current state of all data categories in terms of consensus and impl comitments. closed
14:09:30 <fsasaki> action-81?
14:09:30 <trackbot> ACTION-81 -- David Lewis to consider consolidation of author, revisionAgent and translationAgent -- due 2012-05-17 -- CLOSED
14:09:30 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/track/actions/81
14:09:45 <fsasaki> close action-81
14:09:45 <trackbot> ACTION-81 consider consolidation of author, revisionAgent and translationAgent closed
14:10:08 <fsasaki> topic: General reminder - timeline in july
14:10:21 <fsasaki> http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/wiki/Implementation_Commitments
14:10:30 <tadej> fsasaki: By mid-July, we should decide on which data categories we need.
14:11:00 <fsasaki> topic: General reminder: our plan until September
14:11:01 <tadej> fsasaki: Implementation commitments to end of July
14:11:06 <fsasaki> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb-lt/2012Jun/0133.html
14:12:42 <tadej> fsasaki: In september, we release an update draft version. Everyone should have a description of a prototype.
14:13:15 <tadej> daveL: One level is a running prototype, and another level is passing the test suites. When do we need to do the latter?
14:13:35 <fsasaki> http://www.w3.org/2011/12/mlw-lt-charter.html
14:14:24 <tadej> fsasaki: The W3C process doesn't require that until next year. I would propose that people develop examples along with the prototypes. 
14:15:11 <tadej> daveL: Does it make sense to develop some common prototype test suites?
14:15:34 <fsasaki> http://www.w3.org/TR/2012/WD-its20-20120626/
14:15:41 <tadej> ... That might kick-start the process with developing tests. We might even start with ITS1.0 tests.
14:15:55 <fsasaki> http://www.w3.org/TR/2012/WD-its20-20120626/#usage-in-html5
14:16:20 <fsasaki> http://www.w3.org/TR/2012/WD-its20-20120626/examples/html5/EX-translate-html5-global-1.html
14:16:54 <tadej> fsasaki: These are HTML5 examples for ITS, we'll put our examples in these directories.
14:16:57 <mlefranc> q+ Maxime
14:17:34 <tadej> fsasaki: These examples are simultaneously in the test files.
14:17:42 <fsasaki> ack ma
14:18:03 <fsasaki> http://www.w3.org/International/its/tests/
14:18:18 <tadej> Maxime: Would the test output files have a repository?
14:18:26 <fsasaki> http://www.w3.org/International/its/tests/test1/Translate1-result.xml
14:18:30 <tadej> fsasaki: We need to develop new tests for new data category features
14:18:40 <tadej> ... Here's an example of a test output
14:19:15 <tadej> ... However, we don't want to force implementors to reproduce this artificial output literally.
14:20:09 <tadej> ... But it should be an illustrative example to help them.
14:20:36 <tadej> Des: We're considering creating a default set of 'test contents' to demonstrate the implementation, in a complete round trip.
14:21:23 <tadej> ... it could serve as a standard set of contents that other people can work with (and is realistic)
14:21:52 <tadej> fsasaki: We developed different kinds of XLIFFs in various round-trips and use cases.
14:22:27 <tadej> ... We might not end up with a single 'gold standard' of data, but more a set of best practice examples on what to do with metadata.
14:23:16 <tadej> ... We can start discussing this in September.
14:23:27 <tadej> ... And concentrate on the best practives
14:23:35 <tadej> s/practives/practices/
14:23:59 <tadej> daveL: Would Adobe be a good example of what we're doing?
14:24:16 <tadej> Des: Yes, interop of the metadata is the main goal here. 
14:24:34 <tadej> ... that would be a good way to demonstrate it, as long as it's on the agenda.
14:25:00 <tadej> ... We might not have exact applicable content, but I can participate in constructing some examples content.
14:25:06 <tadej> s/examples/example
14:25:07 <tadej> s/examples/example/
14:25:13 <fsasaki> action: felix to think about a round tripping test suite data package
14:25:13 <trackbot> Created ACTION-145 - Think about a round tripping test suite data package [on Felix Sasaki - due 2012-07-05].
14:25:52 <fsasaki> present+ pedro
14:26:14 <fsasaki> topic: Propose to close ISSUE-3
14:26:31 <fsasaki> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb-lt/2012Jun/0157.html
14:29:07 <fsasaki> topic: Propose to close ISSUE-23
14:29:10 <fsasaki> issue-23?
14:29:10 <trackbot> ISSUE-23 -- Re-draft section 7.6. "Removal, Archiving and Re-integration of ITS mark-up" -- open
14:29:10 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/track/issues/23
14:29:24 <fsasaki> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb-lt/2012Jun/0042.html
14:29:46 <tadej> fsasaki: No comments around ISSUE-3, let's close it and keep it in mind when defining best practices
14:30:22 <Pedro> Pedro has joined #mlw-lt
14:30:33 <fsasaki> topic: ISSUE-1
14:30:35 <tadej> fsasaki: Any issues with closing ISSUE-23? .. No, closing it.
14:31:49 <fsasaki> topic: Propose to close "ISSUE-6: Process State"
14:32:45 <tadej> fsasaki: We can close these by September when we finalize these. Any comments against closing it now?
14:34:18 <tadej> daveL: Getting data categories closed by September. It would be beneficial to be able to demonstrate a concrete pipeline (Des)
14:34:36 <fsasaki> issue-16?
14:34:36 <trackbot> ISSUE-16 -- Parameter for rules -- open
14:34:36 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/track/issues/16
14:34:41 <fsasaki> issue-24?
14:34:41 <trackbot> ISSUE-24 -- Proposal to change ITS term -- open
14:34:41 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/track/issues/24
14:35:13 <tadej> fsasaki: I propose closing ISSUE-16 and ISSUE-24? Any comments?
14:36:47 <tadej> shaunm: (ISSUE-16) Global parameter default may encourage bad practices, but we should discuss what would be a way to specify them.
14:37:01 <fsasaki> topic: RDF serialization
14:37:08 <tadej> fsasaki: Let's keep ISSUE-16 open until further discussion.
14:37:37 <fsasaki> https://docs.google.com/document/pub?id=1Y8yLjJpWTJFA-WTvRhTDd6zl6jBOE9P5ckTfCZqUZIk
14:38:19 <fsasaki> scribe: fsasaki
14:38:45 <fsasaki> maxime: there are two different ways to do the mapping to RDF
14:39:14 <fsasaki> .. first one would be to compute each element and attribute in XML world, then convert that into rdf
14:39:19 <fsasaki> s/one/approach/
14:39:57 <fsasaki> .. option b) would be to transform ITS metadata in RDF, that is ITS global rules in RDF
14:40:06 <fsasaki> .. the google docs goes into option b
14:40:46 <fsasaki> .. the dom fragments refer to one fragment in the element / or attribute. Pretty similar to what is shown in the artifical output at http://www.w3.org/International/its/tests/test1/Translate1-result.xml
14:41:12 <fsasaki> .. question is: do we want to do that in RDF or do via option a?
14:41:24 <fsasaki> .. if there is no use case, we can have standard output in XML like http://www.w3.org/International/its/tests/test1/Translate1-result.xml
14:41:31 <fsasaki> and transform that into a RDF/XML document
14:41:43 <fsasaki> .. so mapping would be a simple xslt stylesheet
14:42:10 <fsasaki> tadej: right now the data that we expect in the rdf file will be for disambiguation, ne terms etc.
14:42:15 <fsasaki> .. so things that don't appear in global rules
14:42:25 <fsasaki> .. we can defintetely work with option a) to do that
14:42:33 <fsasaki> .. so there is no use case in producing b)
14:42:59 <fsasaki> .. so we can keep the use case in mind - in dublin we discussed a lot whether it is possible
14:43:08 <fsasaki> .. it is possible but takes a lot of effort to implement
14:43:27 <fsasaki> .. so for practical purposes the option a) is easier to do
14:43:44 <fsasaki> maxime: writing two options in the draft, asking for comments would be good
14:44:12 <DomJones> I have to leave unfortunately. Apologies. Dom
14:44:19 <fsasaki> dave: going back to use cases ...
14:44:35 <fsasaki> .. obvious use case for option a is: extract connections between content and external entities
14:44:41 <fsasaki> .. and publish it in NIF ontology
14:44:55 <fsasaki> .. so that would be a way to collect the data from an ITS parser into RDF
14:45:18 <fsasaki> .. use case is to collect it as a language resource for other NLP components
14:45:32 <fsasaki> tadej: that is one of the things we proposed in Dublin
14:45:47 <fsasaki> .. I'm worried about having an end-to-end use case
14:46:01 <fsasaki> .. this is rather a bridge use case, not doing something with that
14:46:03 <fsasaki> dave: sure
14:46:22 <fsasaki> .. if anybody can see a use to cause an implementation, it is a valid use case
14:46:56 <fsasaki> .. people in the localization industry won't jump into this soon, but maybe in language resources area
14:46:59 <fsasaki> tadej: agree
14:47:11 <fsasaki> .. sebastian wrote a long mail before the meeting describing that
14:47:19 <fsasaki> .. even NIF has to grow more to accomodate these use cases
14:47:31 <fsasaki> .. so this particular part might be delayed
14:48:42 <fsasaki> maxime: for option a we would need a standard output
14:49:18 <fsasaki> felix: that would be part of the recommendation 
14:50:41 <tadej> felix: Can someone update the google doc on ITS-RDF integration to update it to standards-language?
14:50:49 <fsasaki> action: maxime to write something for option b) of rdf conversion
14:50:49 <trackbot> Created ACTION-146 - Write something for option b) of rdf conversion [on Maxime Lefrançois - due 2012-07-05].
14:51:05 <fsasaki> action: felix to write something for option a) of rdf conversion, plus XSLT
14:51:05 <trackbot> Created ACTION-147 - Write something for option a) of rdf conversion, plus XSLT [on Felix Sasaki - due 2012-07-05].
14:52:06 <tadej> topic: Terminology
14:53:00 <fsasaki> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb-lt/2012Jun/0158.html
14:53:20 <fsasaki> tadej: above is the list of latest examples 
14:53:33 <fsasaki> .. I defined "entityRel" attribute to determine the relationship for the link
14:53:44 <fsasaki> .. a NE, term, WSD, or NE type
14:54:04 <fsasaki> .. only bigger mismatch is: instead of having entityRel for each type we would define individual attributes
14:54:13 <fsasaki> .. that's the only way to keep this part consistent
14:54:25 <fsasaki> .. other issue that in ITS 1.0, the attributes only mention "term"
14:54:28 <mlefranc> action: maxime to use the standard output XML files and the already written RDF vocabulary to draft a XML->RDF/XML XSLT stylesheet
14:54:29 <trackbot> Created ACTION-148 - Use the standard output XML files and the already written RDF vocabulary to draft a XML->RDF/XML XSLT stylesheet [on Maxime Lefrançois - due 2012-07-05].
14:54:35 <fsasaki> .. i.e. term=yes, termInfo, termInfoRef
14:54:49 <fsasaki> .. so I'd propose different attributes
14:55:03 <fsasaki> .. at the end it is the question of markup - consistency vs. backwards compatibility
14:55:21 <fsasaki> .. keeping strict compatibility will lead to more markup
14:55:43 <fsasaki> .. more specifc, the term data category is the same
14:55:53 <fsasaki> .. except that we allow people to specify terminology lexcion
14:56:01 <fsasaki> .. and there is looser support for identifiers
14:58:08 <Pedro> sorry, but my micro does not work :-(
14:58:27 <mlefranc> q+ pedro ?
14:58:54 <fsasaki> pedro, you are now not muted anymore
14:59:08 <tadej> Pedro: ...
14:59:41 <tadej> Pedro: We wanted to discuss the event in Madrid.
15:00:16 <tadej> fsasaki: Can we continue with this topic next week?
15:00:32 <tadej> RRSAgent, draft minutes
15:00:32 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/06/28-mlw-lt-minutes.html tadej
15:01:08 <fsasaki> sure
15:01:15 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/06/28-mlw-lt-minutes.html fsasaki
15:01:54 <fsasaki> http://www.w3.org/2012/06/21-mlw-lt-minutes.html