IRC log of au on 2012-06-25

Timestamps are in UTC.

18:48:13 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #au
18:48:13 [RRSAgent]
logging to http://www.w3.org/2012/06/25-au-irc
18:48:18 [Jan]
Zakim, this will be AUWG
18:48:18 [Zakim]
ok, Jan; I see WAI_AUWG()3:00PM scheduled to start in 12 minutes
18:48:23 [Jan]
Meeting: WAI AU
18:48:45 [Jan]
Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-au/2012AprJun/0060.html
18:48:49 [Jan]
Regrets: Tim B.
18:49:01 [Jan]
Chair: Jutta Treviranus
19:00:26 [Jan]
zakim, code?
19:00:26 [Zakim]
the conference code is 2894 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), Jan
19:00:48 [Zakim]
WAI_AUWG()3:00PM has now started
19:00:55 [Zakim]
+Jeanne
19:02:19 [Zakim]
+[Microsoft]
19:03:04 [Zakim]
+[IPcaller]
19:03:29 [Jan]
zakim, [IPcaller] is really Jan
19:03:29 [Zakim]
+Jan; got it
19:03:54 [Zakim]
+[Microsoft.a]
19:03:56 [Jan]
zakim, [Microsoft] is really Alex
19:03:56 [Zakim]
+Alex; got it
19:04:04 [Jan]
zakim, [Microsoft.a] is really Cherie
19:04:04 [Zakim]
+Cherie; got it
19:06:29 [Zakim]
+??P11
19:06:51 [Jan]
zakim, ??P11 is really Jutta
19:06:51 [Zakim]
+Jutta; got it
19:07:07 [Jan]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-au/2012AprJun/0060.html
19:07:22 [Jan]
Topic: 1. Processing Last Call comments
19:07:28 [Jan]
http://www.w3.org/WAI/AU/2012/ATAG2-CommentResponses20124010LC-3.html
19:07:39 [Jutta]
Jutta has joined #au
19:07:55 [Jan]
http://www.w3.org/WAI/AU/2012/ATAG2-CommentResponses20124010LC-3.html
19:09:28 [Zakim]
+ +1.571.765.aaaa
19:09:43 [Jan]
zakim, aaaa is really Greg
19:09:43 [Zakim]
+Greg; got it
19:11:11 [Zakim]
+ +1.561.582.aabb
19:11:57 [Greg]
Greg has joined #au
19:12:35 [Jan]
Topic: MS3
19:12:50 [Jan]
AUWG: The Working Group agrees that this could be clarified and that the stem text should change to better synch with B.2.3.3 (the style also follows that employed for the stems of B.1.1.1 and B.1.1.2).
19:12:51 [Jan]
The text has been reworded as follows: "Repair of Text Alternatives During Authoring Sessions: If the authoring tool attempts to automatically or semi-automatically repair text alternatives for non-text content ("repair strings") during an authoring session, then the following are both true: (Level A)
19:12:53 [Jan]
(a) Suitable Text Sources: Repair strings are only ever derived from text sources designed to fulfill the same purpose as the text alternative (e.g., suggesting an image's "description" metadata field as a long description). Other text attributes (e.g., the file name, file format) or generic strings (e.g. "image") are not used.
19:12:54 [Jan]
(b) Author Control: Authors have the opportunity to accept, modify, or reject the repair strings prior to insertion in the content; and
19:15:29 [Jan]
JR: No change in meaning, just removing connotation and following pattern of other stems
19:15:34 [Jan]
AL: Sounds good
19:15:43 [Jan]
AUWG: The Working Group agrees that this could be clarified and that the stem text should change to better synch with B.2.3.3 (the style also follows that employed for the stems of B.1.1.1 and B.1.1.2).
19:15:45 [Jan]
The text has been reworded as follows: "Repair of Text Alternatives During Authoring Sessions: If the authoring tool attempts to automatically or semi-automatically repair text alternatives for non-text content ("repair strings") during an authoring session, then the following are both true: (Level A)
19:15:46 [Jan]
(a) Suitable Text Sources: Repair strings are only ever derived from text sources designed to fulfill the same purpose as the text alternative (e.g., suggesting an image's "description" metadata field as a long description). Other text attributes (e.g., the file name, file format) or generic strings (e.g. "image") are not used; and
19:15:48 [Jan]
(b) Author Control: Authors have the opportunity to accept, modify, or reject the repair strings prior to insertion in the content.
19:15:57 [Jan]
Resolved: All agree on language immediately above.
19:17:37 [Jan]
Topic: IBM19
19:17:39 [Jan]
AUWG: "Relevant Sources" is only the handle, not the testable part of the condition. See rewording under MS3.
19:17:56 [Sueann]
Sueann has joined #au
19:18:08 [Jan]
AUWG: "Relevant Sources" is only the handle, not the testable part of the condition. See rewording under MS3.
19:18:35 [Jan]
Resolved: All agree on the response immediately above.
19:19:47 [jeanne]
q+ to say that since pattern and context recognition is continually improving, I would not want to see us forbid it.
19:19:58 [jeanne]
ack j
19:19:58 [Zakim]
jeanne, you wanted to say that since pattern and context recognition is continually improving, I would not want to see us forbid it.
19:22:43 [jeanne]
Jan: But then a checker will give a pass to the author, even though they have not created meaningful alt text.
19:23:34 [jeanne]
... but examples such as Facebook automatically flagging a photo as "Jan's Profile Picture"
19:24:05 [jeanne]
... but it would still fail the part where the user has to approve it.
19:24:45 [jeanne]
... perhaps it could be flagged as automatically repaired, and that could be brought to the author's attention when the author ran the checker.
19:24:49 [jeanne]
... it could be a note.
19:24:59 [jeanne]
+1 for the note
19:25:41 [Jan]
Possible note: If the tool does auto-correct during the session, the alt needs to be flagged as auto-generated...
19:25:52 [jeanne]
Greg: the author would need to have their attention drawn to a change in content, to make sure the system did it correctly.
19:26:23 [jeanne]
... and upon initial content creation -- an opportunity to verify that it is, in fact, meaningful.
19:27:31 [jeanne]
Jan: B.2.3.2 - a type of repair that is "almost" suitable text source, but it needs to be verified by the author.
19:29:37 [Jan]
Action: JR to write note re: If the tool does auto-correct during the session, the alt needs to be flagged as auto-generated.
19:29:37 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-381 - Write note re: If the tool does auto-correct during the session, the alt needs to be flagged as auto-generated. [on Jan Richards - due 2012-07-02].
19:29:51 [Jan]
"Repair of Text Alternatives During Authoring Sessions: If the authoring tool attempts to automatically or semi-automatically repair text alternatives for non-text content ("repair strings") during an authoring session, then the following are both true: (Level A)
19:29:53 [Jan]
(a) Suitable Text Sources: Repair strings are only ever derived from text sources designed to fulfill the same purpose as the text alternative (e.g., suggesting an image's "description" metadata field as a long description). Other text attributes (e.g., the file name, file format) or generic strings (e.g. "image") are not used; and
19:29:54 [Jan]
(b) Author Control: Authors have the opportunity to accept, modify, or reject the repair strings prior to insertion in the content.
19:30:12 [Jan]
Resolved: Alll accept the text above for B.2.3.2.
19:30:20 [Jan]
Topic: MS4
19:31:45 [Jan]
B.2.3.3 Repair of Text Alternatives After Authoring Sessions: If the authoring tool attempts to automatically repair text alternatives for non-text content after an authoring session has ended, then any repair strings do not include text that is also available to user agents (e.g. the file name, metadata stored in non-text content) or generic text strings (e.g., "image").
19:31:47 [Jan]
Note: Examples of acceptable repair strings include those derived from contextual information (e.g., that an image is the author's profile picture) or from performing pattern recognition on the non-text content. (Level A)
19:33:38 [Jan]
JT: Does is this address awkwardness of wording?
19:37:09 [Jan]
B.2.3.3 Repair of Text Alternatives After Authoring Sessions: If the authoring tool attempts to automatically repair text alternatives for non-text content after an authoring session has ended, then must do so from text sources that are otherwise still available to user agents (e.g. the file name, metadata stored in non-text content) or generic text strings (e.g., "image").
19:37:31 [Jan]
B.2.3.3 Repair of Text Alternatives After Authoring Sessions: If the authoring tool attempts to automatically repair text alternatives for non-text content after an authoring session has ended, then it must do so only from text sources that are otherwise still available to user agents (e.g. the file name, metadata stored in non-text content) or generic text strings (e.g., "image").
19:38:02 [Jan]
B.2.3.3 Repair of Text Alternatives After Authoring Sessions: If the authoring tool attempts to automatically repair text alternatives for non-text content after an authoring session has ended, then it must not do so from text sources that are otherwise still available to user agents (e.g. the file name, metadata stored in non-text content) or generic text strings (e.g., "image").
19:39:54 [jeanne]
q+
19:45:31 [Jan]
ack jeanne
19:46:29 [Jan]
AL: The text is an improvement...I'd like tot think about it more.
19:46:36 [jeanne]
jeanne: wants to add an additional example (e.g. the file name, metadata stored in non-text content), generic text strings (e.g., "image") or marking the image as decorative.
19:46:40 [Jan]
JT: Let's cycle back to this next week
19:46:52 [Jan]
Topic: GZ5
19:47:54 [Jan]
AUWG: While the Working Group recognizes that "range" is a weak term, the Working Group considered stronger language, but no workable solution was found. For example, if we required an accessible template for every use case, would we be prepared to fail an entire tool if it included many accessible templates, but lacked one for a challenging domain, such as a calendar? The Working Group...
19:47:56 [jeanne]
+1 to the response
19:47:56 [Jan]
...decided to use wording that clearly conveyed our intent while remaining testable.
19:48:32 [Jan]
JT: Could we move to addressing this, by putting our strong support in as a note or other measure
19:51:48 [jeanne]
+1
19:52:37 [Jan]
AUWG: While the Working Group recognizes that "range" is a weak term, the Working Group considered stronger language, but no workable solution was found. For example, if we required an accessible template for every use case, would we be prepared to fail an entire tool if it included many accessible templates, but lacked one for a challenging domain, such as a calendar? The Working Group...
19:52:38 [Jan]
...decided to use wording that clearly conveyed our intent while remaining testable.
19:52:40 [Jan]
We have repeated the informative note under "Range" ("Note: ATAG 2.0 uses the term "range" in several success criteria in which absolute measurements may not be practical (e.g., the set of all help documentation examples, the set of all templates). While the strict testable requirement is the definition "More than one item within a multi-item set", implementers are strongly encouraged to...
19:52:41 [Jan]
...implement the success criteria more broadly.") under the intent sections of all of the SCs where it is used.
19:52:56 [Jan]
Resolved: Accept text above (response and changes to the various intent sections)
19:53:16 [Jan]
Topic: IBM21
19:53:56 [Jan]
AUWG: A note will be added:
19:53:57 [Jan]
Note: The nature of the accessibility status indicator is not specified and will depend on the type of content. For example, a widget gallery might indicate a WCAG 2.0 conformance level for each widget, while a clip-art gallery might simply indicate whether an alt text string is provided for each image.
19:54:03 [Jan]
SN: Sounds fine.
19:57:01 [Zakim]
-Jutta
20:00:14 [Jan]
Resolved: All accept "Note: The nature of the accessibility status indicator is not specified and will depend on the type of content. For example, a widget gallery might indicate a WCAG 2.0 conformance level for each widget, while a clip-art gallery might simply indicate whether an alt text string is provided for each image."
20:00:25 [Jan]
Topic: F2F Scheduling
20:01:32 [jeanne]
http://www.w3.org/WAI/AU/2012/ATAG2-CommentResponses20124010LC-3.html
20:05:27 [Zakim]
- +1.561.582.aabb
20:05:33 [Zakim]
-Greg
20:05:35 [Zakim]
-Alex
20:05:42 [Zakim]
-Cherie
20:05:46 [Jan]
zakim, who's here?
20:05:46 [Zakim]
On the phone I see Jeanne, Jan
20:05:47 [Zakim]
On IRC I see Sueann, Greg, RRSAgent, Zakim, Jan, jeanne, trackbot
20:23:50 [Zakim]
-Jeanne
20:23:53 [Zakim]
-Jan
20:23:55 [Zakim]
WAI_AUWG()3:00PM has ended
20:23:55 [Zakim]
Attendees were Jeanne, Jan, Alex, Cherie, Jutta, +1.571.765.aaaa, Greg, +1.561.582.aabb
20:33:02 [Jan]
RRSAgent, make minutes
20:33:02 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/06/25-au-minutes.html Jan
20:33:08 [Jan]
RRSAgent, set logs public
20:33:13 [Jan]
Zakim, bye
20:33:13 [Zakim]
Zakim has left #au
20:33:17 [Jan]
RRSAgent, bye
20:33:17 [RRSAgent]
I see 1 open action item saved in http://www.w3.org/2012/06/25-au-actions.rdf :
20:33:17 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: JR to write note re: If the tool does auto-correct during the session, the alt needs to be flagged as auto-generated. [1]
20:33:17 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2012/06/25-au-irc#T19-29-37