Next was status review of existing actions while Shawn reminded everyone to stay current as well with ongoing "Actions for all EOWG" in the Announcements section of the EOWG home page. Also, members should update availability for upcoming EOWG conferences along with a reminder that we will miss at two meetings in July, so time can be spent on reviewing documents to be published.
The meeting ended with a few moments of Open Discussion to look at items that may be important for EO to consider. Mobile, touch screens, and general UI issues were mentioned.
Sharron: Nice work Shawn and Suzette. Looks good to me.
<AndrewA> +1 from Andrew
Shawn: Main change is under Accessibility Principles, we changed to an ordered list. Seemed to help with flow of intro.
Sharron: Wasn't able to spend much time this week but in review last night seemed that the flow was much improved. Seems to be getting into good shape.
Shawn: Under Components, we have gone back and forth about density of content. We cut back quite a bit and will start to look at how to update the WCAG Overview in support.
... any other comments?
Ian: Under Acessibility Requirements, the sentence "achieve principles" is not really an accurate reflection of the meaning of the word.
Jennifer: address principles?
Sharron: adhere to principles?
Jennifer: achieve is more appropriate to goals than principles
Jennifer: Yes, that might work
Ian: Or meeting requirements.
<IanPouncey> "There are 4 principles that can be followed to meet these accessibility requirements:"
Jennifer: I think that is fine.
Shawn: Brainstorm a bit more?
Jennifer: Not consider, since it is not action oriented enough
<shawn> These accessibility requirements fall under four principles
Sharron: Four principles guide the achievment of accessibility requirements
Suzette: What Liam was trying to do was to look from the perspective of the developers, they work from and relate to project requirements
<shawn> [ /me likes idea although prefers more active than " the achievment of " :-]
Shawn: We will take this into consideration for final version. Jennifer, if you can do a copy edit, now is a good time. Most of the wording comes from other, previously approved documents.
Jennifer: should be able to do it after the call
Shawn: if you see any changes, may have to change original as well, sp please make suggestions in the wiki put in version with notes.
... Suzette, I let you know I was talking with Chris and Doug.
... I let them know about our progress and since we have polished it, we would like to have a protected version.
... any thoughts about that?
Sharron: What is their response to our request for protected status?
Shawn: ... Basically, there is the intention for some other documents to be protected and some to be open. So two things that were pulled over from Opera curriculum may be one of them. Is it helpful to have different perspectives or confusing to have multiple versions of same topic?
<LiamM> suggest: "These accessibility requirements are designed to fulfill four underlying principles"
<suzette> good suggestion Liam
Shawn: One of the things that the WebEd group would like is for us to provide an outline and fill it in as well as allow others to edit. It overlaps somewhat with WAI-Engage, but is not an issue. 1. It is opportunity for anyone who wants to and 2. shows that we are open and encouraging other input.
... when we looked at it in terms of the work Liam and Suzette did earlier this year, we need to consider how much of that we can realistically do in EO and what we will do as individuals within the WebEd group.
Suzette: Agree that it can be a bit difficult to let go of a document even though it is the nature of the wiki. It is somewhat protected by the links back to original documents.
Shawn: Another issues is that we have three different overviews for accessiiblity 1. this one 2. general intro on WAI site and 3. intro on W3C main site
... don't need all three, so we need to look at what we should do about that.
... one is that the Basic page that we worked on can be posted as the static version on WAI as the intro. Then the editable version on the WebEd wiki. Any thoughts on that?
... Let's review the sentence Liam edited.
Jennifer: Liam's suggestion works for me by putting requirements first.
<shawn> These accessibility requirements fulfill four underlying principles:
Ian: OK for me as well
Shawn: anything else on this?
<shawn> wiki for collecting ideas: http://www.w3.org/WAI/EO/wiki/WCAG_Overview_Notes
Shawn: Links from minutes goes to wiki page available for comment. There are links to other wording
<shawn> current page: http://www.w3.org/WAI/intro/wcag.php
Suzette: Reference to WCAG1 should be omitted despite the few who desperately hang on to it
Liam: How many pages in the WAI website?
Shawn: Do you want to talk about redesign as a separate topic?
Shawn: But on this page, my perception was ugh it's old and needs work. When I read through however found there to be some good stuff.
... for now all Overview pages have this structure. Can we change it to be more useful, or do we need to start with a blank slate?
Suzette: Since it is such a pivotal page in pointing to other pages, if we can find a quick way to refresh and update, we could do other changes later on. Fix it up a bit for now
Jennifer: Basically address the things that made you go ugh, but keep the good stuff
<shawn> ACTION: Jennifer review WCAG Overview http://www.w3.org/WAI/intro/wcag.php & comment in wiki http://www.w3.org/WAI/EO/wiki/WCAG_Overview_Notes [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2012/06/22-eo-minutes.html#action02]
<shawn> ACTION: Suzette review WCAG Overview http://www.w3.org/WAI/intro/wcag.php & comment in wiki http://www.w3.org/WAI/EO/wiki/WCAG_Overview_Notes [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2012/06/22-eo-minutes.html#action03]
Suzette: If we are going from the "fix it" approach, can we place it in the wiki?
Jennifer: Is there a tool that does it?
<shawn> html to wiki converter: http://bmanolov.free.fr/html2wiki-tables.php#wiki
Shawn: Andrew, welcome any thoughts to share on WCAG Overview or add them to wiki.
... related FAQ needs to be updated
<shawn> WCAG 2 FAQ: wiki page http://www.w3.org/WAI/EO/wiki/WCAG_2_FAQ_Notes
Shawn: Want to clarify techniques and generally update.
... one of the questions will be the relationship between Overview and FAQ
... is Overview high level and FAQ provides more drilled down info? Is it OK to have overlapping info that is just organized differently?
<AndrewA> votes for overlapping (though probably not identical, even if diffrently structured)
Shawn: need to think, as we make changes how we want the two pages to work together.
Andrew: Should not have the same information although some overlap will be OK and probably unavoidable.
... Not making ISO connection public until final?
Andrew: Would be nice to reference ISO here
... even if just basic reference to the process
<shawn> FAQ ISo draft wording: http://www.w3.org/WAI/EO/wiki/WCAG_2_FAQ_Notes#WCAG_2_ISO_draft
Shawn: Let's take a minute to look at FAQ and ISO draft wodring
Andrew: Might reference back to press release that was issued.
Shawn: There is a page
... anyone else? If you can look at it, that would be great
<AndrewA> would encourage ISO FAQ to be published asap
Shawn: Reminder that we have a robust version that is still in Draft, but was unannounced. Would be great to announce in sync with WebEd materials
... also had talked about how we might want to gather supporting resources and revisions through WAI-Engage and so please think about that as well. Andrew?
Andrew: Overall there were a few things needed before coming out of draft. Adding expand/collapse - is it crucial?
... some of the pages could benefit from that function, but what do others think about importance?
Shawn: My perspective is really good to have but sync to WebEd is more improtant
Liam and Jennifer: +1 +1
Andrew: Low priorities are listed. Go to Accessiiblity Topics tab in the wiki, WCAG2 section, someone pointed out that the wording of some of the bullets was inconsistent
... if anyone has thoughts about tightening up, making more conisstent?
Shawn: Can you look at that detail now?
... does it need an introductory phrase?
... and maybe the bigger question is what the relationship is?
... seems like wordsmithing and you can just take a pass at it, Andrew
All: agree editor's discretion
Andrew: Next is Section 10, WAI-ARIA section. May have been less relevant a year and a half ago, but becoming more relevant now. Reiterating that HTML 5 does not make WAI ARIA redundant
<scribe> ACTION: Shawn to look at WAI-ARIA FAQ to add question about relationship to HTML5 [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2012/06/22-eo-minutes.html#action04]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-188 - Look at WAI-ARIA FAQ to add question about relationship to HTML5 [on Shawn Henry - due 2012-06-29].
Shawn: Andrew you will add a point in the revised version?
Andrew: Yes. Now on Presentations page there were no outstanding issues. Waiting for clarification from Vicki.
... next was Workshop Outline page had a few suggestions that will require a bit of consideration. Requirements for experience and how it should be phrased.
<shawn> Sharron: people who just learned accessibility, then think with the materials, they can train others
<shawn> ... don't want to discourage people, but it is an issue
<shawn> ... can have bad outcomes
Jennnifer: Good point. It happens
Andrew: Some of technical stuff especially subject to that
Shawn: If at least it is presented with the caveat that I am sharing something that I jsut learned.
<scribe> ACTION: Sharron to develop cautionary language in wiki to address level of expertise of presenters [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2012/06/22-eo-minutes.html#action05]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-189 - Develop cautionary language in wiki to address level of expertise of presenters [on Sharron Rush - due 2012-06-29].
Andrew: Yes to put in various places throughout the training suite informaiton
Jennifer: You could have a message on the Overview page and the link back to it from Presentation page and Workshop page. I feel ambivalent about this since the materials are so well done and you don't want to discourage people from using them
Shanw: You are encouraged to spread the word from whatever level of knowledge you have with the cautionary message as well.
Andrew: Encouraging presenters to draw examples from experience of audience - government, education sector, retail, etc
Shawn: We deliberately made this general, this seems like specific
Andrew: And next one is too - encouraging presenters to take feedback during persentation. Also very specific "How to be good presenter" rather than based on accessiiblity information to share
<shawn> scribe: Suzette
<shawn> two points:
<shawn> * suggestion to note that presenter should draw upon examples that are relevant to the audience (e.g. government, industry, etc)
<shawn> * suggestion to encourage trainer to seek daily feedback in order to adjust focus on following days
Andrew: important to identify local context
... need for action on module on accessibility
<AndrewA> ACTION: Andrew to draft Training topic/module to cover prelim eval for release with Prelim Eval update [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2012/06/22-eo-minutes.html#action06]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-190 - Draft Training topic/module to cover prelim eval for release with Prelim Eval update [on Andrew Arch - due 2012-06-29].
Andrew: another potential topic from Engage, for content authors, also selecting suitable CMS and authoring tools
Shawn: do we need further topics
Andrew: this question of author orientated keeps coming up - we don't have anything specific
... Sample questions included to get audience to discuss - but some have asked for suggested answers that could be collected from WAI engage
Shawn: need to establish timeline
Andrew: not this Friday - but following one
Shawn: wants to get everything out to EO for review to be ready next week - proposed 1st July deadline
Jennifer: about the approval, what happens about promotion?
... Need to add someting on Responsibilities
Shawn: could be integrated into quick reference
Jennifer: aware from training expereinces that responsibilities is important issues
Shawn: re Liam's q: how many pages on the WAI site
Liam: how big a project might a rewrite be - and how is it all created
Shawn: is the bulk is hand written html
... two elements - the design of the elements eg navigation, then bringing back in the materials in all their different forms
... might be able to get help with the transfer process
Liam: if could see file might be able to see if there are some parts that could be easily revised
Shawn: not easily packaged copy, but what there is is all on the website, including history pages behind
... 3 options - leave as is, make some easier changes, or match it to W3C site revised design
... current structure is not ideal - but had to address some cross browser issues at the time
<LiamM> I move to make the pig more attractive.
Shawn: there is a wrapper that they all conform to, it is the content that is hand done - Shawn can send wrapper
<LiamM> Can we have a dev server please? Ian may be able to provide
<LiamM> Will make it much faster to work on
Jennifer: why does WAI not look like W3C?
Shawn: WAI did a redesign a little while back, then W3C did a redesign of the top level pages
Shawn: Suzette to close action
... Liam action Shawn to send update
... Update on slides with Ian - is moving forward for next week
... reminder to update availability for phone
... no WAI meeting on 13 and 20 July, plus some regrets for 27th
<shawn> 6 July 2012 teleconference tentative - preliminary agenda: Application Notes (working title), How People Use the Web Notes wiki page
<shawn> Shawn: live captions & chat so can participate some without phone line
Andrew: interest in Australia on development of mobile and if app how to make it accessible
... having to recommend that high level principles continue to apply
Shawn: this may come to EO soon
<shawn> mobile: WCAG & UAAG
Andrew: Especially on touch screen
<shawn> IndieUI http://www.w3.org/WAI/IndieUI/ WG page (we need to do an Overview page)
<shawn> announcement: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ig/2012AprJun/0103.html
<shawn> note for overview page: http://www.w3.org/WAI/EO/wiki/IndieUI_Overview
Shawn: wrap up reminder to review document updates