IRC log of egov on 2012-06-20

Timestamps are in UTC.

07:46:31 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #egov
07:46:31 [RRSAgent]
logging to http://www.w3.org/2012/06/20-egov-irc
07:47:00 [PhilA]
Sharon: Don't have to allow entry to assessors and so they may not be able to get in the building
07:47:39 [PhilA]
Sharon: as the data is passed up the chain and is aggregated, less and less of the data is passed on. If you want it all you'll have to contact thousands of local agencies
07:47:45 [PhilA]
... they all do it differently
07:47:59 [PhilA]
Sharon: Case 3 - where does the money go?
07:48:13 [PhilA]
... 1bn of the 8bn went to the NY state transport system
07:48:36 [boris]
boris has joined #egov
07:49:11 [PhilA]
... there's a requirement for grantees of the money to report quarterly. States not set up to do this and so systems had to be put in place very quickly
07:49:22 [PhilA]
... 13 different information systems used by 400 projects
07:49:40 [PhilA]
... implementation quality varied greatly
07:49:51 [PhilA]
... and it's hard to measure. What is a job created? What is a job saved?
07:51:01 [PhilA]
Sharon: we have data, we have technologies, we have management/organisations - how do we collect it? define it etc., and we have policies about the services and the data
07:51:14 [PhilA]
... context is real people in real places trying to do complicated things
07:51:24 [PhilA]
... not surprising that a lot of data is not used in policy making
07:51:42 [leimdorfer]
leimdorfer has joined #egov
07:51:56 [PhilA]
... tend to use single data sources. We don't have data about whether services for homeless people and it's harder to get
07:52:11 [PhilA]
... and elephant in the room is data quality
07:52:18 [Jeanne]
Jeanne has joined #egov
07:52:22 [PhilA]
... for most people data quality means accuracy but it means more
07:52:35 [PhilA]
... data quality = fitness for use
07:53:42 [PhilA]
... data quality usually involves trade offs between, say, timeliness which may mean sacrificing some quality
07:53:50 [PhilA]
... many dimensions to data quality
07:55:20 [PhilA]
... Describes US census data - very detailed. The gold standard. cf. the metadata about a tweet
07:55:23 [olyerickson]
...Link to "Data Quality Assessment" (Pipino, et.al. 2002) http://dwquality.com/DQAssessment.pdf
07:55:51 [PhilA]
... these are prganisations that understand the value of data. The amount of metadata and quality and attention on it should be commensurate with the value we think the data has
07:55:54 [A]
A has joined #egov
07:56:05 [PhilA]
... some data quality tools
07:56:41 [PhilA]
... metadata should support users you don't know
07:57:03 [olyerickson]
...non-technical data quality tools for providers and users...
07:57:49 [PhilA]
sharon: data is an artificial representation of the real world
07:58:27 [olyerickson]
..."the more structured the (data), the further it is from the real world"
07:58:35 [PhilA]
... we have talked a little about integrating data sets and we recognise that this is rarely done. That might not be a bad thing as combinations multiple the errors substantially
07:59:41 [PhilA]
Topic: Using open data: is it really empowering
07:59:50 [panitaliemom]
panitaliemom has joined #egov
07:59:53 [PhilA]
paper -> http://www.w3.org/2012/06/pmod/pmod2012_submission_39.pdf
08:00:36 [PhilA]
HelenD: Take Sharon's last slide as a starting point... we're in the tsunami of data
08:00:43 [PhilA]
... but do we get the information we want?
08:00:49 [PhilA]
... not always cost free
08:00:50 [stomper]
stomper has joined #egov
08:01:08 [PhilA]
rrsagent, draft minutes
08:01:08 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/06/20-egov-minutes.html PhilA
08:01:10 [olyerickson]
..."right" to data linked to "right" to access to information
08:01:49 [PhilA]
HelenD: Parallel to publishing of data has been improvement in rights to access to data
08:02:14 [PhilA]
... ECHR sees access to data as part of freedom of expression 3 years ago, confirmed by UN less than a year ago
08:02:41 [PhilA]
... not sure that there's a necessity to talk about a right to data when we have a human right linked to freedom of expression
08:02:55 [PhilA]
... need data in a proper format
08:02:59 [PhilA]
... machine readable etc.
08:03:14 [PhilA]
... and should be free except perhaps printing costs if you want it that way
08:03:36 [PhilA]
... highlights http://asktheeu.org
08:03:52 [PhilA]
... used by OKFN to get access to entire EU budget in machine-readable format for the first time
08:04:08 [olyerickson]
..."New UN General Comment on Freedom of Expression" (2011) <http://bit.ly/L3B0xk>
08:04:23 [PhilA]
... other aspect to access to info being a right puts oblgation on govs to publish proactively, not just in response to FOI
08:04:54 [PhilA]
... Sharon made the comment that the data that's available may not be what's needed in policy making
08:05:24 [olyerickson]
..."When people outside govt...insist on data, can force policy makers to take into consideration data they may have overlooked"
08:05:28 [PhilA]
... but when people outside government insist on access to data can force policy makers to consider data they haven't considered and then maybe use them - recognise the feedback loops
08:05:52 [PhilA]
... we need relevant feedback loops
08:06:12 [frogzilla]
frogzilla has joined #egov
08:06:17 [PhilA]
HelenD: what do we need to know to hold govs to account?
08:06:30 [PhilA]
... open budget spending data is very important
08:06:51 [PhilA]
... what is the impact on financial crisis on health services is very big
08:07:19 [olyerickson]
..."Data for Democracy": budget spending, health services, education data, companies registers, tax delinquency
08:07:30 [PhilA]
... Chris Taggart gives most countries a score of 23/100 on company transparency
08:08:07 [olyerickson]
..."Transparency International measures corruption, not transparency..."
08:08:50 [A]
A has joined #egov
08:08:51 [PhilA]
Katleen: So Helen's spoken about gov obligation to provide what citizens need, not what they want to give
08:09:08 [olyerickson]
..."relevant information is not for the government to choose"
08:09:19 [PhilA]
Katleen: the Open data community is part of the supply side, not the demand side which is the end users, the public. That's teh goal we need to aim for
08:09:21 [olyerickson]
...relevancy based on what citizens demand/need
08:09:41 [PhilA]
... so what is our role?
08:09:53 [PhilA]
... sitting here won't help
08:10:03 [PhilA]
... it's about reaching out to wider communities
08:10:29 [PhilA]
... open data activitists have a responsibility to reach out to local activists
08:10:48 [PhilA]
... ask not what open data can do for us but what it can do for citizens (paraphrase)
08:11:02 [PhilA]
... most peoiple don't know what to do with data files
08:11:28 [PhilA]
.. need to find a way to translate what we;re doing to a bigger group
08:11:43 [PhilA]
... we need to realise how we're creating new dependencies
08:12:09 [PhilA]
... the open data community ends up being the gate keepers
08:12:17 [PhilA]
Richard: Questions?
08:12:57 [olyerickson]
...reference to "School of Data" (Ckan)
08:13:25 [PhilA]
Katleen: It takes a lot of work and it's a very good start but we need to do more (scribe may have that wrong)
08:13:39 [olyerickson]
...School of Data link <http://schoolofdata.org/>
08:13:42 [PhilA]
HelenD: Is the data reaching the campaigning groups and civil society folks
08:14:15 [PhilA]
... does civil society know how to get the data to relevant people. Not just raw data but visualisation and so on. Need complemenatry measures
08:14:24 [olyerickson]
...dataviz work shouldn't stop on the web site
08:14:29 [PhilA]
... we do a lot of work helping organisations use the data
08:15:05 [olyerickson]
...viz work should reach out to "user community" (citizens) to ensure it meets demands and is effective
08:15:30 [PhilA]
Tim: What is the message to those on teh supply side - should we stop and consider the capacity to use data before we release it
08:16:10 [PhilA]
Federico: Do you think opening budget data is 'not enough' do you think teaching people about the budget could be better than just opening the data set
08:16:15 [Jeanne]
Great points on having to communicate more about open data ideas and projects. We can applaud the good ones here, but if the developers, citizens, or others don't know about what we are doing to help it doesn't make a difference.
08:16:50 [olyerickson]
...Q: transparency in visualization...e,g,, how people know how data has been simplified
08:16:55 [PhilA]
Christian: We also need some transparency in how to visualise the data. It gets simplified and so we need to understand that. DataViz closes data
08:17:24 [PhilA]
Vagner: Back to Sharon - the more structured the data, the less they represent reality - seems counter to everything we're here to talk about?
08:17:59 [PhilA]
... how can we comibine this data with the mess of reality
08:18:18 [PhilA]
... in Brazil, people aren't concerned with data so how do we make it more interesting and more powerful
08:18:32 [PhilA]
Katleen: I agree with pretty much all remarks made...
08:18:48 [PhilA]
... in response to Tim - maybe we should go out and ask people
08:19:17 [PhilA]
... developers get asked, but citizen's groups, environmental activists etc. need to be asked too
08:20:08 [PhilA]
... should government have a role in giving information, not just publishing data. When does the repsonsibility come back to gov?
08:20:42 [PhilA]
HelenD: On data accuracy - reality is messy. Don't expect true accurate data from government - ask what data they're using
08:21:27 [PhilA]
... dicussions about whether Ecuador or Argentina is more transparent doesn't invaliudate the data
08:22:05 [PhilA]
HelenD: Shows slide ranking availability of data in different countries - Serbia at the top, Austria at the bottom
08:22:09 [olyerickson]
Info on FOI legislation: <http://bit.ly/L3D7Ru>
08:22:30 [PhilA]
Katleen: We have to do both - keep demanding data sets, and we need to link to the users.
08:22:44 [olyerickson]
Global RTI Rating Site <http://www.rti-rating.org/>
08:22:54 [PhilA]
... we need to be very aware of what people want. Portals report that some data sets are never downloaded
08:23:36 [PhilA]
... in Brazil of course I met were the OD community. But you have a long history of participatory budget and those people know about the importance of access to info to engage in the debate.
08:24:05 [olyerickson]
Q: "where is the stop in open data?"
08:24:48 [PhilA]
Yannis: Where is the stop in Open Data - how much info do we really want to publish? is there a barrier somewhere? We're working on the assumption that if everything is open... I;m not happy to have my income statement online but if *everyione's* is, maybe I don't mind so much
08:25:13 [PhilA]
... if we live in a society where everything is open, then is that a viable society?
08:25:38 [Girts]
Girts has joined #egov
08:25:41 [PhilA]
HelenD: In theory it's possible to have a transparent dictatorship (ref. Martin's talk)
08:26:11 [PhilA]
... it wouldn't be possible for gos to publish *all* the data so let's start with what people are asking for
08:26:12 [Girts]
can i get the transcript of todays #egov activity?
08:26:39 [PhilA]
HelenD: The only way you know you've changed country when you drive around Europe is that the speed limit changes
08:26:48 [PhilA]
rrsagent, draft minutes
08:26:48 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/06/20-egov-minutes.html PhilA
08:26:56 [olyerickson]
@girts Just hit <cntl>P...
08:27:18 [Girts]
thanks!
08:27:21 [PhilA]
helenD: Several countries put all tax returns online
08:27:46 [Girts]
ow it asks for username/pass today
08:27:49 [PhilA]
HelenD: We're saying let's ensure that the data is relevant. The Spanish portal has loads of PDFs of data that was already available
08:27:57 [PhilA]
rrsagent, make logs public
08:28:22 [Girts]
and thanks again :)
08:28:24 [olyerickson]
Re-iterating point that we must ensure data that is published is relevant to society...
08:29:01 [PhilA]
Katleen: reports on discussions with privacy people who of course don't share default of open is good
08:29:09 [TimDavies_]
TimDavies_ has joined #egov
08:29:15 [PhilA]
... we can't advocate taxes online in Belgium in the way Norway does
08:29:36 [PhilA]
... so we need to accept that there are differences between countries
08:29:49 [PhilA]
Richard: closes session
08:29:54 [PhilA]
COFFEE
08:30:04 [PhilA]
rrsagent, draft minutes
08:30:04 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/06/20-egov-minutes.html PhilA
08:34:42 [Julianlstar]
Julianlstar has joined #egov
08:48:51 [olyerickson]
phila: Reminder that lunch is UPSTAIRS (floor 5) not downstairs
08:49:09 [olyerickson]
Topic: Apps 2
08:49:16 [Jeanne]
Irina: In the business of making data accessible and discoverable.
08:49:43 [olyerickson]
...2nd part of the battle: using the data
08:50:17 [olyerickson]
...this session is about using the data
08:50:38 [olyerickson]
Subtopic: Open Culture Data
08:50:39 [B]
B has joined #egov
08:50:48 [Jeanne]
Irina: We have three speakers today. First is Lotta on A Dynamic Faceted Browser for Data Cube Statistical Data at http://www.w3.org/2012/06/pmod/pmod2012_submission_12.pdf
08:51:13 [PhilA]
scribe: Jeanne
08:51:21 [Jeanne]
Sure thing.
08:52:01 [Jeanne]
Lotta: Started experiment in September 2011 on open culture data, 8 datasets in Netherlands and 1 hack-a-thon on cultural events.
08:52:48 [Jeanne]
Lotta: Recommendations: CC0 (Creative Commons) for metadata; PDM (public domain mark), CC-BY of CC-BY-SA for content; open standards; and open documentation and communication
08:54:31 [Jeanne]
Lotta: Hack-a-thon was on governmental data gathered people to talk about what we do. Started to build apps on the day of the hack-a-thon. Had one month. 13 apps were made and 8 submissions on cultural data. Gold prize was Vistory based on open images, as well as education prize.
08:55:17 [Jeanne]
Faces of the Rijksmuseum app based on 100,000 images made available by the Rijkmuseum. Ran image detection software on the content and identified faces.
08:55:36 [olyerickson]
...Link to OCD site http://www.opencultuurdata.nl/
08:56:39 [Jeanne]
Lotta: Ruks-Quiz was applauded by Rijkmuseum was a quiz based on the content from the museum. Another app made the content available through the conclass browser to see their collections in-house in a new way. Another was Connected Collection that recommends related content from other cultural heritage museums based on your search.
08:56:53 [Vagner_br]
the correct Lotte`s presentation is "Open Culture Data" at http://www.w3.org/2012/06/pmod/pmod2012_submission_22.pdf
08:57:25 [Jeanne]
Lotta: The winning app connected videos with the collection.
08:58:15 [Jeanne]
Lotta: Next step was that in January 2012 worked with Images for the Future and Creative Commons Nederland, started master classes in April, competition and hack-a-thon in June and another in October. In January 2013 will be awards.
08:58:52 [Jeanne]
Lotta: Master class topics: copyright, technology and tools and licensing, benefits and risks of resuse, hackathons and evaluation.
09:00:07 [Jeanne]
Lotta: 7 new datasets including 140,000 new images from a press company. Future? Release more open culture data sets, gather and share more knowledge and case-based evidence about open culture data, organize networking events, position open culture data in national data catalog, evolve
09:01:39 [Jeanne]
Lotta: Benefits: public mission, data enrichment, increasing relevance, increasing channels to end users, brand value, specific funding, discoverability, new customers, building experise, spill over effects
09:01:59 [Jeanne]
Lotta: http://www.opencultuurdata.nl
09:03:49 [Jeanne]
Question: You recommend CC0 for metadata, we also have ISO open metadata license.
09:03:58 [olyerickson]
ISA Open Metadata License mentioned <http://bit.ly/LeHFem>
09:04:12 [Jeanne]
Lotta: We recommend CC0 to be compatible with Europeana and Europe heritage institutions.
09:04:19 [olyerickson]
@jeanne note it's "ISA" not "ISO..."
09:04:25 [Jeanne]
Question: Are the resources available via Europeana?
09:04:31 [Jeanne]
olyerickson: Thanks!
09:04:40 [yoshi]
yoshi has joined #egov
09:04:46 [Jeanne]
Lotta: The intent is to have them accessible.
09:05:12 [olyerickson]
Subtopic: Linked Open Data in Use
09:05:49 [Jeanne]
Florin Bauer and Martin Kaltenbock: http://www.w3.org/2012/06/pmod/pmod2012_submission_2.pdf
09:06:10 [Jeanne]
Florin: Is open data empowering people? Yes--focus on energy for people in developing countries.
09:06:50 [PhilA]
Hmm.... France showed as doing a lot of renewable. Wonder if that includes nuclear (of which FR has a lot)
09:07:33 [Jeanne]
Florin: We need to provide tools that let people understand the data. We do the visualizations and capacity building. We also have to help decision and policy makers to understand why open data and linked open data is so important. It is difficult to explain.
09:08:29 [olyerickson]
...link to reegle project <http://www.reegle.info/>
09:09:22 [olyerickson]
...Florian: "Martin and I wrote the (Linked Open Data) book..."
09:09:23 [Jeanne]
Florin: In developing countries talk about the economic benefits the government will have when they release open data. See how datasets have connections with other datasets and organizations. "Linked Open Data: The Essentials" and available at http://www.google.be/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CFAQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.semantic-web.at%2FLOD-TheEssentials.pdf&ei=N5PhT4CKIc6M-waq3ZCYAw&usg=AFQjCNFGkIawiz0lY1FCSi2uwHMgEF-gxg&sig2=YSmXh94SJ4jT
09:09:44 [Jeanne]
Correction: http://blog.semantic-web.at/2012/01/20/linked-open-data-the-essentials-a-quick-start-guide-for-decision-makers/
09:10:49 [Jeanne]
Florin: With linked open data we share datasets behind the scene, import data updates automatically, and let other web sites consume the data easily. Should we transform our own platforms and tools, yes! Reegle is the gateway we created.
09:11:43 [Jeanne]
Florin: 220,000 users per month and 1700 stakeholders worldwide. http://reegle.info Information from DBpedia on the country, UN, Eurostat, World Bank, UK, and our company on events and databases we provide.
09:12:12 [Jeanne]
Florin: Includes data from US OpenEI portal. Without open data we would never be able to maintain this. This is how open linked data helps us.
09:13:51 [Jeanne]
Martin: Model behind the country codes shows how we interlink via semantic web technologies. Controlled vocabularies are essential, and studying SKOS vocabularies. We have the European data forum 2 weeks ago in Copenhagen--there is a strong need for standardization, interoperability, cross-catalog searches, and multi-lingual. These can be achieved by linked open vocabularies.
09:14:25 [bellows]
bellows has joined #egov
09:14:55 [Jeanne]
Martin: Open Eurobot in the future. Some of the linked vocabularies: reegle, Kluwer, Geological survey of Austria...
09:16:13 [Jeanne]
Martin: API to extract tags from freetext based on term frequency and our thesaurus. Renewable or clean or sustainable energy--send information to API and get all terms extracted from the text.
09:16:52 [Jeanne]
Florin: Currently working on drafting a study to prove the benefit of open linked data in energy focused on developing countries. Please let me know if you want to contribute to this effort.
09:18:33 [Jeanne]
Farida Vis: Cultural specificity--when we collect data in Western cultures, we expect people to honestly answer and complete surveys. Where does this expectation come from? We need to think of global data cultures.
09:19:08 [Jeanne]
Julian Tait:The role of communication in building an open data ecosystem at http://www.w3.org/2012/06/pmod/pmod2012_submission_37.pdf
09:19:57 [Jeanne]
Julian: Future Everything is a festival around Manchester. How would Manchester have developed if all data was made open? Who would benefit, who would be at risk.
09:21:21 [Jeanne]
Julian: How can we create an ecology around open data in Manchester. Metropolitan area is 2.6M people, 10 local authorities, complex entity. People cross borders and want to access services anywhere, but administratively cities don't work like that. It also has to be sustainable solutions.
09:22:40 [Jeanne]
Julian: Best to have a large potential market for services. What is the structure of government in Manchester? Identifying communities by needs and authority. All are set up differently. How would open data benefit you and release or sharing of information benefit you?
09:23:41 [Jeanne]
Julian: Develop and engage with communities. Why should we do this, people asked. No logic of open data. Who is it for? We created an open data community of users--lots of developers around "OpenData Manchester".
09:24:08 [shevski]
shevski has joined #egov
09:24:50 [Jeanne]
Julian: Users are drawn from different communities--politicians, developers, artists. We created themed hackdays around grand challenges, "Lovely Data"--health, environment, etc.
09:26:55 [Jeanne]
Julian: Apps were created--bus timetables, mapping visualizations of transport. People find these things useful. Got lots of proof of concepts with no finished products. From these communities we created the data store for all 10 local authorities. Had to have representation and relevance to the users and the communities. Creation of the data and how it is expressed would be relevant to the needs of the community. Open data ecology--community of open data
09:28:12 [Jeanne]
authorities. Government needed to get data from other governments--but no real ownership of the ecology. Creation of a mutual space--artists, journalists, activists. Want to sustain it now--authorities asking how they should release data and what people will do with it. Business cases are manifesting.
09:28:18 [zelda]
zelda has joined #egov
09:28:32 [A]
A has joined #egov
09:29:51 [Jeanne]
Julian: Transport is a good case--how they get information to people, 18K real-time displays vs. provide open data for app creation. GM Local Authorities--8.5M pounds potentially saved. Planning Data--invited people to the event to help discover new cases.
09:30:45 [Jeanne]
Julian: "If we release open data, then we won't need to do this." SWIRRL won the European open data challege is developing businesses based on open data on CIP project and tourism.
09:32:23 [Jeanne]
PhilA: A few years ago at a W3C event Sir Tim Berners-Lee had a conversation with Gordon Brown and was asked what should happen and he said make your data open. Andrew Stott then got a call to make data.gov.UK. Who else should Tim have dinner with? Are you looking at getting open data about products on shelves?
09:33:16 [Jeanne]
Julian: No, we haven't focused on that although anyone can make data open. An idea to make food data more open allows transparency to see sourcing of the food.
09:35:27 [Jeanne]
Michelle: Our project collects cultural information in Taiwan for open data development. We had an open data day and provided awards. Want to create apps like a car GPS service. With government data on GIS data, then can people can get more benefit from the products and corporation can provide data back to the government, too.
09:35:33 [Jeanne]
Michelle: http://www.w3.org/2012/06/pmod/pmod2012_submission_41.pdf
09:36:03 [Jeanne]
Irina: How much reuse has happened and what value has happened?
09:36:32 [Jeanne]
Florin: We have seen a huge increase in the number of users based on taking the data from other portals and mashing it up. Big impact on the front end side.
09:37:07 [A]
A has joined #egov
09:37:44 [Jeanne]
Lotta: Made 2000 videos available on Wikipedia. Current stats from April--people can add these to Wikipedia articles, and viewed in 50 language versions 3M times per month. By contributing open data, we can a big uptake in usage.
09:39:11 [Jeanne]
Julian: Transportation data in Manchester has made a difference for our citizens.
09:40:19 [A]
A has joined #egov
09:40:51 [Jeanne]
Helen: Many people are trying to get FOIA implemented and adopted, but places like Kenya are not making the connection between open data and transparency. There can be ways the open data community can help the access to information community--why opening data can increase internal government efficiency.
09:41:33 [Jeanne]
Florin: Transparency is less valued in some cases then economic benefits, but open data can result in both.
09:43:13 [Jeanne]
TimDavies: We have data for co-production working like in Manchester and open public services--does this sidestep the policy space? Are those compatible or are there tensions there?
09:44:21 [Jeanne]
Lotta: There's the PSI directive that notes cultural heritage institutions are part of the open data efforts--just metadata or open data? Well, it may be only where you have the rights, which is a small portion of it. What is the business model? What do you mean by open data?
09:45:30 [Jeanne]
Julian: In Manchester, we can do things together that we could never do before. There are set in stone structures, everyone is trying to do the best, but sometimes they fight the structures they are within. By embracing civil society, it shows how they can become more relevant, efficient, etc.
09:47:10 [Jeanne]
Yanos: Inspired by slides to simulate a situation in Manchester--but we also need to experiment in new models for politicians. From Greece, we discuss how to do life experiment--to take a small society like 30K in an island and have these questions outside the lab. Convince the community to open everything and to convince the politicians (mayor) to do this?
09:47:43 [A]
A has joined #egov
09:48:02 [Jeanne]
Julian: It depends on the level of concerns because you can't impose the wall of openness.
09:48:15 [olyerickson]
s/Yanos/Yannis/
09:48:25 [Jeanne]
Yannis: Sooner or later we need to do experiments outside the lab.
09:49:21 [Jeanne]
Richard: New discussions deal with the content held by museums, archives, and libraries under the directive. But content where third parties hold rights, they are not affected. There is a large amount of content in the public domain.
09:49:41 [Jeanne]
Lotta: What is in the public domain should remain in the public domain. Rights need to be clear.
09:49:54 [Jeanne]
Martin: PSI directive is good start, but seems to be watered down.
09:51:09 [Jeanne]
Richard: Not my impression. Working groups discussing it--we expected opposition, but have had less than expected. Final text adopted by Parliament and Council deals with concerns raised by the institutions about the cost. Austrian federal government reacts in this area, but city of Vienna is a torchbearer.
09:52:24 [boris]
scribe: Boris
09:52:45 [Jeanne]
Boris: Thanks
09:53:17 [boris]
John: Introducing the session
09:53:38 [boris]
...: Making sense the government data
09:53:51 [boris]
...: try to understand, analyze the data itself
09:54:01 [boris]
...: relevance on the data
09:54:21 [boris]
... : Introducing the speakers
09:54:37 [boris]
... : Introducing the talks
09:55:10 [boris]
...: First talk from Grece
09:55:31 [boris]
Michalis: Introducing himself
09:55:46 [thschee]
thschee has joined #egov
09:55:57 [boris]
...: an introduction of LOD in Grece and its status
09:56:20 [boris]
...: idea to enable participation, promote competition
09:56:30 [boris]
...: etc
09:56:41 [boris]
...: no apps yet, 2-3 stars
09:57:08 [boris]
...: it's important in Grece
09:57:29 [boris]
...: Issues, how to demonstrate that LOD has added value?
09:57:40 [boris]
...: apps, apps, apps, and more apps
09:57:52 [boris]
...: how to push an elephant in Grece
09:57:58 [josema]
coming late to the log today but comment made by Julian on boundaries resonates with me; hope you could discuss further about it and cross-jurisdiction issues
09:58:01 [boris]
...: updates, visualizations
09:58:40 [boris]
...: Input: "diavegia" every public institution has to provide data
09:58:40 [A]
A has joined #egov
09:58:56 [boris]
...:pointing some vocabularies ....
09:59:02 [boris]
...:original decision text in pdf
09:59:22 [boris]
...: there is a Tax Information System
09:59:25 [PhilA]
scribe: boris
09:59:44 [boris]
...: checklist, they have an ontology by reusing available vocabs
09:59:55 [boris]
...: 2. basic visualizations
10:00:08 [boris]
...: register on thedatahub
10:00:13 [boris]
...: provide links
10:00:29 [boris]
...: links to EU, US, etc
10:00:42 [boris]
...: also links to geodata, dbpedia
10:00:51 [boris]
...: 5. demos and services
10:01:13 [boris]
...: 6. data awareness, organizing hackathons
10:01:30 [boris]
...: showing an example of a basic visualization
10:01:56 [boris]
...: showing where my money goes data
10:02:14 [boris]
...: showing "bubble" visualization about banks
10:02:26 [boris]
...: money goes to help bank
10:02:28 [boris]
s
10:02:47 [boris]
...: now showing other visualization example
10:03:19 [boris]
...: showing a demo about Litchfield district, where my money goes
10:03:33 [boris]
...: extracting information from dbpedia
10:03:57 [boris]
...: comparative statistics, about the money in Lichfield and Kalithea
10:04:23 [boris]
...: SPARQL QUERY about Kalithea for product and services
10:04:47 [boris]
...: they need to do some ontology alignment
10:04:55 [boris]
...: they get the results from that query
10:05:17 [boris]
...: comparing budget of Litchfield and Kalithea
10:05:38 [boris]
...: now build a Greek business repository
10:05:49 [boris]
...: it's an ongoing process
10:06:17 [boris]
...: they can exchange information in both ways
10:06:27 [boris]
...: example Vodafone and Siemens
10:06:44 [boris]
...: information about Greek companies
10:07:08 [boris]
...: they presented first app on the Greek LOD
10:07:26 [boris]
...: try to initiative the benefits of LOD lifecycle
10:07:39 [boris]
...: try to get people involved
10:08:01 [boris]
...: it was hard to get people involved, data was rich, but not in a good shape
10:08:11 [boris]
...: making meaningful data was so, so hard
10:08:34 [boris]
...: people involved, newspaper portal
10:08:41 [boris]
...: preparing visualization for them
10:08:46 [boris]
...: thanks!
10:08:56 [boris]
John: questions?
10:09:20 [boris]
...: quick question: how this is a priority giving the current situation in Greece?
10:09:27 [jasper]
jasper has joined #egov
10:09:50 [boris]
michail: In Greece, they have a special meeting for defining the values of these data
10:10:00 [boris]
...: now they want to show simple cases
10:10:26 [boris]
...: apparently nothing is happening because of this ....
10:10:33 [boris]
...: no consumption of data so far
10:10:51 [boris]
...: they will inform what happens
10:11:07 [boris]
someone: it is possible to do the same at EU level
10:11:09 [boris]
?
10:11:23 [boris]
Michail: that's the goal
10:12:03 [boris]
...: there's a eu directive ... it's a hidden business information .... others can use the data to comepite
10:12:10 [boris]
...: there is not technical barrier
10:12:48 [boris]
Uldis: introducing his presentation "Exploring the networks in open data"
10:13:03 [boris]
...: he is coming from University of Latvia
10:13:27 [boris]
...: his co-author, Valdis is a social network analyst
10:13:51 [boris]
...: network visualization and analysis is useful, showing its benefits
10:14:03 [boris]
...: there are several types of networks
10:14:27 [boris]
...: also a open data hackathon in Riga
10:14:52 [boris]
...: they need the data first, the pre-process the data, then visualize data
10:15:02 [boris]
...: we need data to be open
10:15:10 [boris]
...: it's a problem in Latvia
10:15:18 [boris]
...: no so much open documents
10:15:31 [boris]
...: document in html form from the parlamient
10:15:50 [boris]
...: still they got the information .... political parties, etc
10:16:04 [boris]
...: of course you can publish in a newspaper
10:16:14 [boris]
...: next step is to pre-process the data
10:16:28 [boris]
...: no much cleaning was needed
10:16:44 [boris]
...: output was information about objects and relations about those objects
10:16:57 [boris]
s/about/among
10:17:15 [boris]
...: next, defining graph connections
10:17:27 [boris]
...: they also need to filter the data
10:17:59 [boris]
...: for example opinion differences ... what to filter out ... filter out trivial decisions
10:18:45 [boris]
...: for visualization they define legends for each one of the parties
10:19:01 [boris]
...: talking about the parties
10:19:34 [boris]
...: about of the level of tolerance, how to consider a connection
10:20:08 [boris]
...: who always agree or disagree ... we can see that some parties have a strong voting discipline
10:20:40 [boris]
...: show another visualization taking into account the 35% disagree
10:21:00 [boris]
...: next, to refine the visualization
10:21:17 [boris]
...: define the right cut-off values ....
10:21:44 [boris]
...: what domain experts think about that? ... their opinion it's important to improve visualizations
10:21:56 [boris]
s/it's/is
10:22:23 [boris]
...: documents and visualizations are useful for this task
10:22:47 [boris]
...: showing another example of middle values, opposites parties are voting the same
10:23:13 [boris]
...: we can identify some patterns on the visualizations
10:23:32 [boris]
...: new diagram with more number of connections
10:23:58 [boris]
...: there are connections between opposites parties
10:24:04 [boris]
...: what can we do next?
10:24:10 [boris]
...: understand the visualization
10:24:27 [boris]
...: one expert from former members of the parliament
10:25:19 [boris]
...: improve visualizations, create multiple multiple visualizations
10:25:37 [boris]
...: this involves some new things to do ...
10:25:48 [boris]
...: also we can bring more data ...
10:26:01 [boris]
...: from outside of the graph
10:26:12 [boris]
...: click on a edge and include additional information
10:26:27 [boris]
...: connect to LOD data
10:26:34 [boris]
...: more examples
10:26:40 [boris]
...: donations of political parties
10:26:46 [boris]
s/of/to
10:27:40 [boris]
...: another use case showing company communication patterns, it has clusters of nodes, clusters are based on where people live
10:28:11 [boris]
...: the connectors over the company offices
10:28:24 [boris]
...: concluding: we need more open data
10:28:54 [boris]
...: discovering patterns, help to make sense, what is the final purpose of the visualization
10:29:12 [boris]
...: interested in to collaboration to other groups
10:29:25 [boris]
...: more contact information
10:29:45 [boris]
...: they have a smart network analyzer tool
10:30:07 [boris]
...: now he's showing the tool ... providing a particular visualization
10:30:43 [boris]
...: showing bridging/disconnecting graphs from opposite parties
10:30:53 [boris]
John: questions?
10:31:50 [boris]
someone: taking data from website, and apply some conversions .... doing more scrapping help with no modification of the data? ....
10:32:08 [PhilA]
s/someone/Girts/
10:32:23 [boris]
...: the nice graphs, but they can be used for opposite parties
10:32:35 [Jeanne]
As a reminder, if you are interested in the W3C eGovernment Interest group, you can see the group at http://www.w3.org/egov/wiki/Main_Page To join go to http://www.w3.org/egov/IG/participation It's a great place to continue these discussions.
10:32:38 [boris]
Uldis: scrapping is open source
10:32:53 [boris]
...:
10:33:10 [boris]
Daniel: presenting himself
10:33:40 [boris]
...: how many of you know w3c?
10:33:59 [boris]
...: the same question in other conference, only 3 hands
10:34:27 [boris]
...: how Russia see the rest of the world, and how us see Russia... in general
10:34:37 [boris]
...: convincing Russian people was hard
10:34:50 [boris]
...: presenting the talk outline
10:35:13 [boris]
...: the project is funding by the ministry of education
10:35:39 [boris]
...: partners Leipzig University, some companies from Russia, etc
10:35:49 [boris]
...: 600 man days - 4 stages
10:35:56 [boris]
...: no code so far
10:36:14 [boris]
...: they got some ontologies, math ontology, and nano ontology
10:36:45 [boris]
...: they want to build a framework that converts structure data and text into LOD
10:36:55 [boris]
...: also make linkable at the end
10:37:23 [boris]
...: most of the work is doing manually
10:37:58 [boris]
...: research challenges, rdb2rdf, text2rdf (similar to poolparty)
10:38:27 [boris]
...: creating Identifiers, and reusing these identifiers
10:38:39 [boris]
...: they are not using any other triplestore
10:38:53 [boris]
...: Russians are building their own triplestore
10:38:58 [boris]
...: it will be ready soon
10:39:24 [boris]
...: Leipzig is helping them in some tasks
10:39:33 [boris]
...: some prototype examples
10:39:53 [boris]
...: data are accessible via web services
10:40:08 [boris]
...: they have to improve the visualizations
10:40:19 [boris]
...: stakeholders have different needs
10:40:37 [boris]
...: now showing a simple browser
10:40:47 [boris]
...: Nano Browsing
10:40:57 [boris]
...: on the left side there's the ontologies
10:41:15 [boris]
...: the prototype is based on media wiki
10:41:37 [boris]
...: the second part is for identifying Experts on the Nano field
10:41:53 [boris]
...: they extract the name of the person ...
10:42:17 [boris]
...: another example: who and where
10:42:30 [boris]
...: visualization of the links
10:42:40 [boris]
...: among places and people
10:42:44 [boris]
...: also in a map
10:42:50 [boris]
...: another example for decision making
10:43:09 [boris]
...: analyzing lod dataset, who writes about something
10:43:39 [boris]
...: should I invest into a research project? (example of question)
10:43:57 [boris]
...: concluding: to attract more Russian people
10:44:06 [boris]
...: from OD -> LOD
10:44:43 [boris]
...: try to stablish work between Russian and UK on the upcoming event next week
10:45:12 [boris]
...: last but not least, try to put an stack all the "know-how"
10:45:32 [boris]
...: at the bottom "Ryde the Wave" from the W3C
10:45:52 [boris]
...: describing the interaction with the government
10:46:11 [boris]
...: it will finish by july next year
10:46:26 [boris]
...: finally, what the economic benefits ?
10:47:12 [boris]
John: q?
10:47:30 [boris]
someone: there is a LOD stack for free from LOD2
10:47:37 [boris]
...: you can use it
10:48:00 [boris]
Daniel: thanks!, but Russian people want to do it everything themselvs
10:48:11 [boris]
s/themselvs/themselvs/
10:48:26 [boris]
someone: possibility to collaborate with Russian project?
10:48:33 [boris]
Daniel: not yet
10:48:44 [boris]
John: presenting Yannis
10:48:54 [boris]
Yannis: introducing himself
10:49:11 [boris]
...: talking about LOD2
10:49:31 [boris]
...: but Engage is a new project, not under FP7, it's supposed to be an infrastructure ....
10:49:56 [boris]
...: it's about open data, CKAN, LOD2 platform, but there is difference is that the domain is Science
10:50:04 [boris]
...: science is different
10:50:33 [boris]
...: they are developing the version of the platform by July
10:50:48 [boris]
...: they need more metadata, semantics, vocabularies
10:51:13 [boris]
...: for scientists datasets are different ...
10:51:23 [boris]
...: related to what do we need to prove
10:51:42 [boris]
...: some of the partners are microsoft, ibm, ...
10:52:06 [boris]
...: now they are dealing with experts
10:52:30 [boris]
...: they want to make it as open as possible, also the code, technologies
10:52:33 [boris]
...: thanks
10:53:07 [PhilA]
boris: regarding the vocabularies you need - you're not starting from scratch - which ones are you using?
10:54:54 [boris]
Yannis: egov vocabs are out there, but in science is different .... evolving is an issue
10:55:03 [boris]
...: we are still searching more vocabs
10:55:18 [boris]
someone: regarding the infrastructure
10:55:27 [boris]
...: and vocabs is the beginning
10:55:55 [boris]
Yannis: yes, there will be a system
10:56:37 [boris]
...: engage is an attempt on this unit (eu one) ...
10:57:33 [boris]
...: the question is not comparing to others like data.gov.uk, the question is if we can help sciensts
10:57:56 [boris]
someone: not so much of infrastructure, it's about data accesible
10:58:10 [boris]
Yannis: the whole thing is there
10:58:21 [boris]
John: please put the links on the chat
10:58:30 [boris]
...: brilliant set of slides
10:59:28 [boris]
John: to Daniel ..... future steps, expand more horizontally ... cover more domains, what are your next steps?
11:00:19 [boris]
Daniel: several approaches, use W3C as evangelist, Russian 2020, EU it's a bit slow, it takes some time ... Russian has already money for this ....
11:00:33 [boris]
...: to convert to LOD and not pdf
11:00:50 [boris]
...: ministry of financies is the next player
11:01:18 [boris]
...: an initiative in Russian, kind of Sillicon Valley in Russian, smart city 2014
11:01:31 [boris]
someone: To Daniel
11:01:48 [boris]
...: politics about the stuff in Russian, not great reputation in transparency
11:02:08 [boris]
Daniel: anyone from Russian, yes one
11:02:47 [boris]
....: I know what you mean .... probably they misunderstand the five star scheme
11:03:07 [boris]
...: they don't have any problem with that
11:03:24 [boris]
someone: feeling of LOD as static data
11:03:36 [boris]
...: services implies open data feeds
11:03:47 [boris]
...: it is your aim to provide APIs?
11:04:01 [boris]
...: question was for yannis
11:04:14 [boris]
Yannis: the idea is not to store, provide and give data feeds
11:04:33 [boris]
...: 2012 is the last year when LOD is static data,
11:04:58 [boris]
...: makes no sense not to have updating mechanisms
11:05:30 [boris]
...: explaining the issues of scientific data
11:05:43 [boris]
...: everything should be online
11:05:49 [boris]
...: also the linking
11:06:09 [boris]
someone: yesterday was pointing out as well, we need big infrastructure
11:06:26 [boris]
...: his company is working on that in Netherlands
11:06:36 [boris]
...: also geo layers
11:06:48 [boris]
...: statistical data
11:07:13 [boris]
Yannis: yes, in our Project we have microsoft, ibm, ....
11:07:40 [boris]
...: being infrastructure is hard ... the Greek node can give a lot of infrastructure ...
11:08:09 [boris]
John: lunch!
11:08:44 [boris]
Phil: Welcome Chris Tagger
11:09:52 [boris]
John: close session
11:09:53 [boris]
rrsagent, draft minutes
11:09:53 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/06/20-egov-minutes.html boris
11:58:15 [AndreaP]
AndreaP has joined #egov
12:09:36 [ot]
ot has joined #egov
12:12:28 [PhilA]
Afternoon session
12:12:41 [PhilA]
Topic: Open Data Business Models
12:12:46 [PhilA]
scribe: PhilA
12:13:25 [wilma]
wilma has joined #egov
12:13:45 [PhilA]
chair for this session is Vassilios Peristeras from the ISA Programme/DG DIGIT
12:14:12 [shevski]
shevski has joined #egov
12:14:21 [PhilA]
Business Models for PSI Re-Use: A Multidimensional Framework, Michele Osella, Istituto Superiore Mario Boella
12:14:55 [PhilA]
paper -> http://www.w3.org/2012/06/pmod/pmod2012_submission_16.pdf
12:15:08 [PhilA]
Michele: introduces himself
12:15:28 [PhilA]
... showing results of a survey
12:15:30 [Vagner_br]
Vagner_br has joined #egov
12:15:53 [PhilA]
... focussing on conceptual model
12:16:33 [olyerickson]
olyerickson has joined #eGov
12:16:49 [PhilA]
... talks around the slide...
12:18:22 [PhilA]
Michele: elaborates on prominent gaps in the literature slide
12:18:40 [PhilA]
... focussed on the economics of downstream from the data
12:18:53 [PhilA]
... shows different perspectives of PSI re-use
12:20:09 [PhilA]
... Research Questions (slide)
12:21:05 [PhilA]
... PSI isn't a source of competitive advantage... so what is?
12:21:19 [PhilA]
... the Framework 'canvas view'
12:22:28 [JeanneHolm]
JeanneHolm has joined #egov
12:23:00 [PhilA]
... PSI is bundled within services that are offered to customers - so the service is the product that is sold
12:23:26 [PhilA]
... pyramid view (slide)
12:23:41 [olyerickson]
...Link: European Public Sector Information Platform <http://epsiplatform.eu/>
12:24:02 [PhilA]
Michele: each layer in the triangle depends on the one below's existence
12:24:49 [PhilA]
Michele: then dashboard view (slide)
12:26:20 [PhilA]
... templates adopted for each check box. Uses sophisticated business logic
12:26:37 [PhilA]
... conclusive remarks (slide)
12:28:24 [PhilA]
... we believe the frameowrk offers a promising stepping stone for research into commercial exploitation of PSI
12:28:51 [schegi]
schegi has joined #egov
12:28:52 [PhilA]
... proposal to use it to analyse the many hundreds of apps created in hackathons for public data
12:29:28 [PhilA]
... we plan to use the framework ourselves to evaluate social value of PSI within smart cities
12:30:10 [PhilA]
... linked to more material etc.
12:30:52 [PhilA]
AndrewL: Do you have examples of the kind of business that can set up using this?
12:31:56 [PhilA]
Michele: Shows slide from extended talk
12:32:08 [PhilA]
.. identifies 8 archetypal business models
12:33:00 [PhilA]
... shows example of an 'open source like' business model (and refers to it as poss applying to Open Corporates)
12:34:06 [PhilA]
Topic: Open Corporates, Chris Taggart
12:35:33 [olyerickson]
...Another recent OpenCorporates preso by Chris is here <http://slidesha.re/MqxmSi>
12:35:39 [PhilA]
Chris: Setting up a company is like giving birth - you wonder why you did it but later realise that it was worth it
12:35:59 [PhilA]
... almost everyone works for a company, buys stuff from them etc.
12:36:09 [olyerickson]
...much of the "corporate world" we live is hidden from us
12:36:53 [PhilA]
... businesses have changed completely in terms of the way the are set up and operate
12:37:03 [olyerickson]
...normal people can't see the interconnections of modern corporates
12:37:03 [olyerickson]
...the corporate world is increasingly complex
12:37:05 [TimDavies]
TimDavies has joined #egov
12:37:15 [PhilA]
... some corporations comrpise thousands of legal entities
12:37:32 [olyerickson]
...new complexities, such as instant semi-automatic company generation
12:37:59 [PhilA]
... companies can be formed for a specific purpose. They can be set up for a short time. Expect to see them existing for a matter of weeks or even hours in near future
12:38:06 [olyerickson]
...opacity introduced by "secrecy jurisdictions"
12:38:10 [PhilA]
... very complex networks, come circular
12:38:36 [olyerickson]
...systematic problems we see today are in part due to inability to understand it all
12:39:25 [olyerickson]
...ref to "World Bank Puppet Masters" report
12:39:27 [PhilA]
... competitors want to pay less tax, lower wages etc.
12:39:46 [PhilA]
... world bank report highlights legal entities used to launder money
12:40:09 [PhilA]
... companies are artificial
12:40:43 [olyerickson]
...Link: WB Puppet Masters report <http://bit.ly/MqyOnq>
12:40:46 [PhilA]
... did a survey and published today for tomorrow's DAA. Could anyone do a search and see if a company existed?
12:41:03 [JeanneHolm]
JeanneHolm has joined #egov
12:41:10 [PhilA]
... was there a licence on the data? Can you get hte info as data or through an API for free? Info on directors?
12:41:18 [olyerickson]
...report being released today, how open is company data in EU
12:41:18 [JeanneHolm]
The Puppetmasters report is very interesting: https://openknowledge.worldbank.org/handle/10986/2363
12:41:38 [PhilA]
... no one got 100%. UK and Norway did well
12:42:05 [PhilA]
... in Spain, Austria, Greece, Romania etc. you cannot get any info
12:42:29 [PhilA]
... so this info isn't available to citizens, journalists etc.
12:42:50 [olyerickson]
...The Real Problem: Have an entry for every single legal entity in the world
12:42:56 [PhilA]
... one problem was we needed to have a list of every legal entity in the world
12:43:16 [PhilA]
... legal entities matter as they are the things that have liability
12:43:23 [olyerickson]
..."real data, running code..."
12:43:45 [olyerickson]
...O(43M) companies listed currently
12:43:46 [PhilA]
cf. IETF slogan - rough consensus, running code
12:44:19 [PhilA]
Chris Open Corporates data is all available under an open licence. Increasingly cooperating with company registers directly
12:44:33 [PhilA]
... New Zealand, Norway etc.
12:44:56 [PhilA]
... working with World Bank, W3C, EC, Financial Stability Board/financial community
12:45:23 [PhilA]
... after 12 months' operation, getting most data by screen scraping data we get invited to FSB etc.
12:45:41 [PhilA]
... breathing same air as GS1, ISO etc.
12:45:41 [olyerickson]
...has obtained most of their data to-date via scraping, but are being invited to consult with financial boards etc now
12:45:56 [olyerickson]
...most data has come from the community
12:46:02 [PhilA]
... most of the data came from the open community, e.g. using scraper wiki
12:46:15 [PhilA]
... getting offers of help from all around the world
12:46:23 [PhilA]
... paid for on projected income
12:46:32 [PhilA]
... for entity matching, data cleansing
12:46:55 [olyerickson]
...huge # of requests for API every day
12:47:03 [olyerickson]
...dual license model
12:47:08 [PhilA]
... you can use our API for free but it might be cheaper to pay us to do it
12:48:00 [PhilA]
... you can use the data but under share alike. So folk like Dunn & Bradsteet who don't want to share their data aren't going to do this
12:48:11 [olyerickson]
...not *trying* to get customers, but are getting some because share-alike is poison pill to some users
12:48:15 [PhilA]
... some customers that want the data without the share alike
12:48:38 [PhilA]
... adding more data, enriching everything
12:49:16 [PhilA]
Antonis: I'm Antonis Ramfos from Intrasoft
12:49:27 [PhilA]
... IT company does most of its wor for public sector
12:49:29 [olyerickson]
Topic: IntraSoft
12:49:46 [PhilA]
... interest for us is the future possibilities
12:50:11 [PhilA]
... we see that public sector opens its data increasingly
12:50:43 [PhilA]
... we have to realign our business model
12:51:01 [PhilA]
... you may have heard of Cordis which we've been running for 10 years. We've done major development on that for the future
12:51:25 [PhilA]
... will become a content provider. We have to use the open data to continue to run the service
12:51:32 [PhilA]
... the future is here
12:51:49 [PhilA]
... whole public service provision is changing and we need to think of new business models
12:52:02 [PhilA]
Topic: Jens Steensma
12:52:40 [PhilA]
Jens: I have a short talk yesterday about the Dutch version of FixMyStreet which we found about after we'd begin work on our project.
12:52:51 [PhilA]
... do we make money? not yet
12:53:05 [PhilA]
... we deliver services to the mobile government workforce
12:53:47 [PhilA]
... how do we make money on bad data?
12:54:10 [PhilA]
... a bit like OC. We do open data collection and create data. We can do it better than most government depts
12:54:21 [PhilA]
... it helps that we know how governments work
12:54:29 [PhilA]
... we offer APIS with 2 way communication
12:54:41 [PhilA]
... and we can charge annual fee for premium services
12:54:50 [PhilA]
... like guarantees on up time etc.
12:55:02 [PhilA]
... 2 new cities signed up today :-)
12:55:34 [PhilA]
... Sharon's cartoon this morning was interesting: info $1, info you need $500
12:56:00 [PhilA]
... we give the cheap data away and charge for the expensive
12:57:04 [PhilA]
... costs of making decisions is very high. We can help to reduce that
12:57:25 [PhilA]
Topic: David Mitton, Listpoint
12:58:10 [PhilA]
David: 10 years ago, 2 10 year old girls were murdered in the UK. Single reason perpetrator wasn't spotted earlier was lack of interoperable data
12:58:24 [PhilA]
PhilA: (Google Soham murders)
12:58:52 [PhilA]
David: Person I works with all data standards rather than making a choice
12:59:22 [PhilA]
... Police only allowed to spend money on Policing. So wanted the products to be available to governments and everyone else
12:59:31 [PhilA]
... in terms of business model. very simple
12:59:55 [PhilA]
... we work with suppliers at the beginning of a procurement process
13:00:09 [PhilA]
... lowers the cost because you don't have agree on a standard before you start
13:00:19 [PhilA]
... ongoing data maintenance is easier
13:00:30 [PhilA]
... work with suppliers to lower the cost of supply
13:00:47 [olyerickson]
..."Makes money by saving money..."
13:02:15 [olyerickson]
Subtopic: Discussion of Business Models for Public Sector Open Data
13:03:35 [PhilA]
Chris: Companies like mine will never be the sort of size that generates the sort of size of those legal entities
13:04:00 [olyerickson]
...ChrisT: Trying to srink the business intelligence market down to 1/100th its size
13:04:19 [olyerickson]
...every person's life is effected by this
13:04:45 [PhilA]
... competitive info is a significant barrier to entry for many new businesses
13:04:45 [olyerickson]
...access to competitor information is a barrier to innovation
13:05:12 [PhilA]
... the extra money comes from the ability to do things more quickly nad easily
13:05:50 [olyerickson]
Q+
13:05:50 [PhilA]
Vassilios: Many public admins don't like the cost involved and the fact that others generate the profits
13:06:43 [olyerickson]
Gov't needs to guarantee that govt LOD will be sustained
13:06:55 [PhilA]
Michalis: We keep asking for applications. Governments are part of this. They need to be involved. Which kinds of data are going to be open and maintained in order to stimulate ecomonmic activity
13:07:25 [PhilA]
... should define minimum level of support
13:07:31 [PhilA]
olyerickson: +1 to Micahlis
13:08:20 [JeanneHolm]
Very important to be sure that companies can trust that the government data they build a business on will be available, accessible, and in a usable format. This can be the biggest barrier to true innovation and economic benefits.
13:08:20 [PhilA]
olyerickson: What role should govs play in fostering the ecosystem. Healthy Human Services has for several years hosted an event that brings together people from gov and private sector to foster an ecosystem
13:08:57 [PhilA]
... size of the event is huge now. But a numnber of challenges where gov has offered prizes in 10K - 50K for specific challenges for apps based on the data
13:09:14 [JeanneHolm]
Some challenges are up to $1,000,000 for particularly complex issues.
13:09:26 [JeanneHolm]
See more at http://www.challenge.gov
13:09:53 [PhilA]
olyerickson: So my question is - is the EU doing anything similar - giving prizes etc.
13:10:13 [PhilA]
Vassilios: I don't think there's an EU answer, but there might be from member states
13:10:20 [PhilA]
... building a community catalogue
13:10:58 [olyerickson]
PhilA: Thanks for making sense of my utterances ;)
13:11:17 [PhilA]
scribe: cgueret
13:11:19 [olyerickson]
Topic: Lightning Talks on Open Data Ecosystem
13:11:55 [cgueret]
Rethinking Kelly and Etling's Map of the Iranian Blogosphere Gwyneth Sutherlin, University of Bradford
13:12:20 [cgueret]
ICT for conflict resolution
13:12:56 [cgueret]
... people seems to start with false assumption that data is diffused as neutral thing, without context
13:13:13 [cgueret]
... limitations of open data for IR policy?
13:13:22 [JeanneHolm]
See Gwyneth's paper at http://www.w3.org/2012/06/pmod/pmod2012_submission_31.pdf
13:13:36 [cgueret]
how can culture be incorporated?
13:14:10 [cgueret]
... physics model of iranian blogosphere
13:14:22 [cgueret]
... show clusters in the network
13:14:39 [cgueret]
... poetry / mixed / secular / twelver / ...
13:14:47 [cgueret]
... => not useful for policy makers
13:14:59 [cgueret]
... what is lost?
13:15:24 [cgueret]
... social media are always used in the same way
13:15:50 [cgueret]
... online behaviour are supposed to give insight on culture
13:16:08 [cgueret]
... need to determine what makes this online space unique
13:16:51 [CaptSolo]
slides of the "Exploring the Networks in Open Public Data" talk: http://www.slideshare.net/CaptSolo/exploring-the-networks-in-open-public-data-13391338
13:16:53 [cgueret]
... in Iran, need to take in account the source of the information people put online (added layer)
13:17:07 [cgueret]
... need to do a semantic filter first, prior to any visualisation
13:17:29 [cgueret]
... enable to distinguish in the information comes, from example, from a diaspora or from elsewhere
13:18:02 [cgueret]
... strategies around surroinding online personas
13:18:36 [cgueret]
... maybe a way to explain poetry: use it to do metaphoras and escape persecusion off-line
13:20:51 [cgueret]
Q: english tweeter user use a lot of sentiments to say things without saying them
13:20:53 [A]
A has joined #egov
13:21:08 [cgueret]
A: research has been done on offline content, need to extend it to online content now
13:21:31 [cgueret]
The Open Data Workflow: Towards an Open Data Middleware Stefan Scheglmann, Institute for Web Science and Technologies (WeST), University of Koblenz-Landau
13:22:18 [cgueret]
WeST associated to gesis (like franhauferh)
13:22:45 [cgueret]
developed LISA (local information search and aggregation) for first open data contest in Germany
13:23:04 [cgueret]
... showing data about Munich
13:23:20 [cgueret]
... heatmap visualisation of neighbourhood
13:23:37 [cgueret]
... use point of interests extracted from OSM and other data sets
13:23:57 [cgueret]
... took a week for two persons to realise
13:24:31 [olyerickson]
...LISA Munich Edition <http://lisa.west.uni-koblenz.de/lisa-demo/>
13:24:34 [cgueret]
... won the first prize
13:24:47 [JeanneHolm]
http://lisa.west.uni-koblenz.de/?lang=en for general information about LISA
13:24:58 [cgueret]
... got attraction from business that want to generate sponsor based revenues
13:25:52 [C]
C has joined #egov
13:26:00 [cgueret]
... want open data workflow
13:26:17 [cgueret]
... explore / choose / import / normalize / present
13:27:17 [cgueret]
... use things like Yahoo Pipe
13:27:30 [cgueret]
... this and other services can ensure some parts of the chain
13:28:00 [cgueret]
... there is a need to define a middleware based on different services
13:28:14 [cgueret]
... will be used by policy makers and citizen
13:28:24 [cgueret]
... facilitate data consumption
13:28:34 [cgueret]
... Open doesn't imply accessible
13:28:53 [cgueret]
... people that are targeted are not always able to use the data they receive
13:29:13 [cgueret]
... such a middleware will fix that and allows new services to be easily plugged in
13:29:29 [cgueret]
... there are different LISA for different cities
13:29:51 [cgueret]
Q: wrt middelware, is this just ideas or do you have something already?
13:30:14 [cgueret]
A: partially done for LISA, now thinking of making this more robust and figure out more building blocks
13:30:40 [cgueret]
... currently more of a strategic discussion
13:31:21 [cgueret]
Q: open news project could use that kind of middleware
13:31:38 [cgueret]
A: that's exactly the goal, bring non technician to use open data
13:32:01 [FaridaVis]
FaridaVis has joined #egov
13:33:12 [cgueret]
A means to embrace and map together data standards David Mitton, Listpoint
13:34:22 [cgueret]
code list management service
13:34:34 [cgueret]
... IATI standard
13:34:43 [cgueret]
... make aid spending easier to access
13:35:12 [cgueret]
... want to re-use existing information and no re-create code lists
13:35:38 [cgueret]
... challenges: mapping / delegation / versioning / changes
13:36:22 [cgueret]
... need to be able to access and rely on country codes (cf ISO)
13:36:48 [cgueret]
... need to be able to inform data consumers when the data is updated
13:36:58 [cgueret]
see http://www.aidtransparency.net/
13:37:11 [cgueret]
and http://iatiexplorer.org/index.php
13:38:06 [cgueret]
... did mapping for IATI sector codes
13:38:35 [cgueret]
... people create new standards every single day
13:38:43 [cgueret]
... mappings had to be done manually
13:38:47 [cgueret]
...
13:38:59 [cgueret]
... found errors in conding conventions too
13:39:07 [cgueret]
s/conding/coding
13:39:24 [cgueret]
... www.listpoint.co.uk
13:39:49 [cgueret]
... created new code lists there
13:40:12 [cgueret]
... community need to have faith in the data they are looking at
13:40:21 [cgueret]
... developers can extract the mapping layer in XML
13:40:52 [cgueret]
... whenever there is a change in code, all the consumers of the data are alerted
13:41:04 [cgueret]
... it's an open platform
13:41:06 [peeves]
peeves has joined #egov
13:41:14 [cgueret]
... 4000 code lists so far
13:42:13 [cgueret]
Additional flash lightning by Uldis Bojārs
13:42:17 [cgueret]
Europeana
13:42:33 [cgueret]
(shows europeana.eu site)
13:43:00 [cgueret]
there was Hack4Europe event
13:43:20 [cgueret]
... created europe.in to explore europeana content
13:43:56 [cgueret]
(shows example with looking for "Da Vinci")
13:44:34 [cgueret]
... list of items related to Da Vinci, can click for more informations
13:44:41 [MacTed]
MacTed has joined #egov
13:46:20 [olyerickson]
Topic: Coffee
13:46:48 [A]
A has joined #egov
13:47:03 [olyerickson]
Topic: Report from the SEMIC Interoperability Conference
13:48:15 [CaptSolo]
links from the Europeana visual expl #pmod lightning talk: http://europ.in/about - http://europ.in/search?q=da%20Vinci http://blog.europeana.eu/2012/06/hack4europe-2012-preview-of-prototypes/ + europeana page
13:48:50 [CaptSolo]
individual image "pages": http://www.europeana.eu/portal/record/02302/0457E5166CB382AB844BCAB45A7A84AB3FF648D4.html
13:49:25 [CaptSolo]
- some html5 history magic involved to dynamically generate item pages
13:49:32 [CaptSolo]
- feedback welcome
13:49:43 [CaptSolo]
- and let us know of interesting search keywords you find
14:05:52 [schegi]
schegi has joined #egov
14:06:50 [PhilA]
Topic: Report on Semic conference
14:07:05 [PhilA]
stijn: I'm Stijn Goodertier from PwC
14:07:52 [PhilA]
stijn: Keynotes from Antony Huang from NIEM and Jeanne Holm
14:08:13 [PhilA]
stijn: talks on need for code lisst being open and open data middleware
14:08:19 [PhilA]
... need to make data open and accessibkle
14:08:54 [PhilA]
... invitation to join initiatives on Joinup and the ISA Programme
14:09:25 [PhilA]
... we can talk more about it in the networking event afterwards
14:09:51 [olyerickson]
olyerickson has joined #eGov
14:09:54 [PhilA]
Topic: Session on Tools
14:10:17 [PhilA]
Session chaired by Luigi Reggi
14:10:31 [olyerickson]
Subtopic: Dynamic Faceted Browser for Data Cube
14:10:39 [PhilA]
scribe: olyerickson
14:11:20 [olyerickson]
..Speaker: Nikolaos Loutas (DERI)
14:11:33 [A]
A has joined #egov
14:12:07 [olyerickson]
...statistics data important
14:12:33 [olyerickson]
...most previously published as excel(csv) but increasingly RDF
14:12:53 [olyerickson]
...When pub'd in RDF, usually Data Cube Vocabulary
14:13:07 [olyerickson]
...concepts and attributes for describing data
14:13:26 [olyerickson]
...measure, attributes of data, dimension
14:13:34 [olyerickson]
..W3C recommendation
14:13:49 [olyerickson]
...Example: Ireland data in Data Cube
14:14:26 [olyerickson]
...average policy maker can't write SPARQL query ;)
14:14:57 [olyerickson]
...to help: faceted browser over DataCube data
14:15:09 [olyerickson]
...Working on the UI
14:15:27 [olyerickson]
...Figure: Overview of DataCube Viewer Architecture
14:16:01 [olyerickson]
...powered by sparql endpoint (rather than federated query)
14:16:49 [olyerickson]
...features: no pre-processing, works against any RDF but must be DataCube vocab, pulls extra info via URIs, data can be exported
14:16:52 [shevski]
shevski has joined #egov
14:17:21 [olyerickson]
...contact the authors: Fadi, Gofran or Nikos...
14:17:29 [CaptSolo]
https://github.com/fadmaa/RDF-faceted-browser
14:17:29 [olyerickson]
...<live demo>
14:19:18 [A]
A has joined #egov
14:21:39 [olyerickson]
..Q: Statistical data is multi-dimensional...there is prior art to working with this...could this be supported?
14:23:04 [olyerickson]
...Q: What about MathML? Have they thought about this
14:23:08 [olyerickson]
...A: No...why/
14:26:10 [olyerickson]
...Q; Several nerdish questions about scalability, portability to other vocabs, etc
14:26:52 [olyerickson]
subtopic: Faceted Browser for Geospatial Datasets
14:27:16 [olyerickson]
...speaker: Boris Villazon-Terrazas
14:27:48 [olyerickson]
...We have the data, now need to deliver relevant applications "for my mother, brother, etc"
14:27:58 [olyerickson]
...NLP, rich client, etc
14:28:20 [olyerickson]
...Within LOC Cloud, significant portion with geospatial data
14:29:04 [olyerickson]
...Developed a tool for exploring/visualizing RDf datasets enhanced with geospatial info
14:29:11 [olyerickson]
...<arch diagram>
14:29:26 [olyerickson]
...What do we mean by geospatial resource
14:29:46 [olyerickson]
...use dpbedia geo:lat geo:long model
14:30:05 [olyerickson]
...but also, geoLinkedData, NeoGeo models
14:30:54 [olyerickson]
...Model complicated models possible...eg rivers (lineString) etc
14:31:28 [olyerickson]
...Recall yesterday, many apps based on Google Maps; they do too ;)
14:31:57 [olyerickson]
...<screen shot> Facets on upper left, overlay options lower left
14:32:21 [olyerickson]
...OpenStreetMaps implemented now too; dynamic switching between the tw
14:32:30 [olyerickson]
...OpenLayers API supported
14:32:51 [olyerickson]
...Catalogue Service Web
14:33:35 [olyerickson]
...Any other Inspire-based services are supported
14:34:09 [olyerickson]
...Complex geometries: example, lake equivalents
14:34:41 [olyerickson]
...allowing user input of corrections ("editions")
14:35:21 [olyerickson]
...(user clicks on "edition" link, inputs changes, editors can review)
14:35:39 [olyerickson]
...uses GeoLinkedData
14:36:05 [olyerickson]
...Partner with GIN (Geo Inst of spain)
14:36:10 [CaptSolo]
http://geo.linkeddata.es
14:37:03 [olyerickson]
...Possible to integrate statistical data from Statistical Office of Spain
14:38:09 [PhilA]
RDF data cube is on the standards track, not there yet though (but it will be)
14:38:55 [olyerickson]
...Meteorological Data via AEMET
14:39:06 [olyerickson]
...example: weather stations
14:39:34 [olyerickson]
...click on weather station, see the weather data...
14:39:50 [olyerickson]
...see a graph of the data
14:40:25 [olyerickson]
...modeling sta in sensor network vocab
14:40:42 [olyerickson]
<clapping>
14:41:02 [bhyland]
bhyland has joined #egov
14:41:30 [olyerickson]
Subtopic: Research Challenge on Visualization (Francesco Mureddu)
14:41:45 [yannisc]
yannisc has joined #egov
14:44:23 [olyerickson]
...visual analytics for policy-making
14:44:36 [olyerickson]
..."challenges in governance"
14:45:00 [olyerickson]
...dig into data to extrapolate patterns and models for more evidence-based policy debate
14:45:12 [olyerickson]
...need people to be more engaged in policy making
14:45:35 [olyerickson]
...take on complex, unpredictable patterns and make sensible
14:46:06 [olyerickson]
...Possible solutions: economics, health data, demographics, legal arguments
14:47:13 [olyerickson]
...also: discussion arguments, geovisualization, security and national defense
14:47:44 [olyerickson]
...corporate and military angles
14:48:06 [olyerickson]
..."Inspiring Cases"
14:48:09 [olyerickson]
...GapMinder
14:48:23 [olyerickson]
...US Labor Force Visualization
14:48:29 [olyerickson]
...State Cancer Profiles
14:48:39 [olyerickson]
...Instant Atlas
14:49:28 [olyerickson]
...Link: stata cancer Profiles <http://statecancerprofiles.cancer.gov/>
14:50:20 [olyerickson]
...Link: Labor Force Visualizer <http://flare.prefuse.org/launch/apps/job_voyager>
14:50:55 [olyerickson]
...Link: GapMinder <http://www.gapminder.org/>
14:52:14 [olyerickson]
Link: InstantAtlas <http://www.instantatlas.com/>
14:52:25 [olyerickson]
..."Corwall is quite boring..."
14:52:36 [olyerickson]
s/Corwall/Cornwall/
14:52:39 [PhilA]
Sorry but I have to say, Cornwall is not boring. It's beautiful and a favourite place for holidays!#
14:53:01 [olyerickson]
Zakim, mute PhilA ;)
14:53:11 [olyerickson]
...Key Challenges:
14:53:26 [olyerickson]
...User acceptability: still not intuitive
14:53:40 [olyerickson]
...dataviz still largely demand-driven
14:54:00 [olyerickson]
...better integration between tools/packages
14:54:19 [PhilA]
rrsagent, draft minutes
14:54:19 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/06/20-egov-minutes.html PhilA
14:54:29 [olyerickson]
...Comments about GoogleViz
14:55:19 [olyerickson]
...see also GeoDaCenter --- special prohject to enhance criminal justice
14:56:24 [PhilA]
olyerickson: The idea of data-enhanced policy making is incredibly optimistic
14:57:01 [PhilA]
... as a US alien... is there a trend within the EU for data-enhanced policy making?
14:57:14 [PhilA]
Francesco: We'd liek to create the trend by the Crossover project
14:58:03 [PhilA]
DavidO: One of the flagship initiatives of the EC - Future ICT - is a kind of real world data simulator applying particularly to policy making. Simulation, aggregation etc. Big research project on this issue
14:58:19 [PhilA]
Gianluca: Crossover is just one project funded by the EC
14:58:36 [PhilA]
... this is a support action to build a community and define a roadmap. There are bigger projects
14:58:50 [PhilA]
... based on this assumption that evidence-based policy making is possible
14:59:03 [PhilA]
... a new call for proposals is coming soon
14:59:28 [PhilA]
... we're awaiting the results of some project to see if there is a trend
15:00:18 [PhilA]
Topic: Summary from David Osimo
15:00:42 [PhilA]
DavidO: We had a fear that participants that wouldn't understand what we meant by OD for Policy Modelling
15:00:48 [PhilA]
... obviously unfounded
15:01:32 [PhilA]
... we have seen a number of key tools being discussed, these are the ones being used in policy making
15:01:36 [PhilA]
... so it's happening
15:01:54 [PhilA]
... we had an extremely useful practitioners' panel yesterday
15:02:03 [PhilA]
... also very important for us is the global nature of the community
15:02:33 [PhilA]
... in terms of the roadmap we have had a lot fo contributions focussed on the challenges that OD needs to address to improve policies
15:02:51 [PhilA]
... some challenges lie in accessibility nad usability. Similar to digital divide debate
15:03:05 [PhilA]
... not just hardware but skills/media literacy too
15:03:37 [PhilA]
... these are some of the key issues we have got from this. We'll work on this through the commentable document on the crossover site
15:03:53 [PhilA]
... do you agree with the research challenges - and do you work on this
15:04:08 [PhilA]
.. The unstructured part is the LinkedIn group for discussion of issues
15:04:31 [PhilA]
... also we have a collaborative bookmarking method on diigo.com
15:05:01 [olyerickson]
Topic: PhilA Summary
15:05:11 [olyerickson]
... Humbled by level on contribution
15:05:25 [olyerickson]
... special thanks to scribes
15:05:52 [olyerickson]
...notes available online soon
15:06:00 [olyerickson]
...get your slides to PhilA!
15:06:08 [olyerickson]
...Learned much
15:06:29 [olyerickson]
...jeanneHolm has gotten many ideas to pick up in W3C eGov IG
15:06:38 [olyerickson]
...Note also W3C GLD WG
15:06:54 [olyerickson]
...Finishing early (remarkable)
15:07:10 [olyerickson]
...Heading over to Sofitel shortly
15:07:40 [olyerickson]
...the way to get attention of policy makers is free alcohol
15:07:51 [olyerickson]
...bar opens at 6p (53 mins)
15:07:52 [CaptSolo]
thanks for a great event!
15:08:20 [Girts]
excellent, ty!
15:08:35 [olyerickson]
Follow-up link: FuturICT Project http://futurict.eu
15:08:40 [CaptSolo]
great work scribing, olyerickson and everyone else!
15:14:23 [olyerickson]
zakim, i'm outta here...
15:14:25 [olyerickson]
olyerickson has left #eGov
15:19:39 [PhilA]
rrsagent, generate minutes
15:19:39 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/06/20-egov-minutes.html PhilA
15:31:12 [PhilA]
PhilA has left #egov