14:48:06 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #prov
14:48:06 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2012/06/14-prov-irc
14:48:08 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world
14:48:08 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #prov
14:48:10 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be 
14:48:10 <Zakim> I don't understand 'this will be', trackbot
14:48:11 <trackbot> Meeting: Provenance Working Group Teleconference
14:48:11 <trackbot> Date: 14 June 2012
14:48:24 <pgroth> rrsagent, make logs public
14:48:38 <pgroth> Zakim, this will be PROV
14:48:38 <Zakim> ok, pgroth; I see SW_(PROV)11:00AM scheduled to start in 12 minutes
14:48:51 <pgroth> @Luc that should do it
14:50:37 <Luc> thanks
14:50:46 <Luc> did you receive my email to the mailing list, with copy of agenda
14:51:22 <TomDN> TomDN has joined #prov
14:51:29 <pgroth> yes just got it
14:51:36 <khalidbelhajjame> khalidbelhajjame has joined #prov
14:51:44 <Zakim> SW_(PROV)11:00AM has now started
14:51:52 <Zakim> + +329331aaaa
14:52:04 <TomDN> Zakim, +329 is me
14:52:04 <Zakim> +TomDN; got it
14:52:19 <TomDN> Zakim, mute me
14:52:19 <Zakim> sorry, TomDN, muting is not permitted when only one person is present
14:52:44 <Zakim> +??P3
14:52:52 <Zakim> +??P2
14:52:55 <pgroth> Zakim, ??P3 is me
14:52:56 <Zakim> +pgroth; got it
14:54:08 <Luc> chair: luc moreau
14:54:13 <Luc> scribe: paolo missier
14:54:18 <Luc> topic: admin
14:54:56 <Paolo> Paolo has joined #prov
14:55:15 <MacTed> RRSAgent, draft minutes
14:55:15 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/06/14-prov-minutes.html MacTed
14:55:18 <MacTed> RRSAgent, make logs public
14:55:21 <Zakim> + +1.661.382.aabb
14:55:38 <MacTed> (nothing's made public, if the draft isn't produced first)
14:55:42 <tlebo> tlebo has joined #prov
14:56:35 <Zakim> + +1.518.276.aacc
14:56:42 <tlebo> zakim, I am aacc
14:56:42 <Zakim> +tlebo; got it
14:57:15 <Zakim> + +44.238.059.aadd
14:57:42 <CraigTrim> CraigTrim has joined #prov
14:57:43 <Luc> zakim, aadd is me
14:57:43 <Zakim> +Luc; got it
14:57:53 <TomDN> Zakim, mute me
14:57:53 <Zakim> TomDN should now be muted
14:58:04 <CraigTrim> Zakim, mute me
14:58:04 <Zakim> sorry, CraigTrim, I do not know which phone connection belongs to you
14:58:08 <satya> satya has joined #prov
14:58:23 <smiles> smiles has joined #prov
14:58:31 <Zakim> +??P9
14:59:30 <Curt> Curt has joined #prov
14:59:33 <Luc> @craigTrim, do you want to introduce yourselve at the end of the admin topic?
15:00:06 <Zakim> +Curt_Tilmes
15:00:08 <Jun> Jun has joined #prov
15:00:12 <pgroth> pgroth has left #prov
15:00:23 <pgroth> pgroth has joined #prov
15:00:31 <Zakim> -TomDN
15:00:33 <Zakim> +OpenLink_Software
15:00:45 <MacTed> Zakim, OpenLink_Software is temporarily me
15:00:47 <Zakim> +MacTed; got it
15:00:48 <MacTed> Zakim, mute me
15:00:48 <CraigTrim> Sure
15:00:49 <Zakim> MacTed should now be muted
15:01:00 <Zakim> +??P1
15:01:02 <MacTed> Zakim, who's here?
15:01:04 <Zakim> On the phone I see pgroth, ??P2, +1.661.382.aabb, tlebo, Luc, ??P9, Curt_Tilmes, MacTed (muted), ??P1
15:01:09 <Zakim> On IRC I see pgroth, Jun, Curt, smiles, satya, CraigTrim, tlebo, Paolo, khalidbelhajjame, TomDN, Zakim, RRSAgent, Luc, MacTed, sandro, trackbot, stain
15:01:16 <dgarijo> dgarijo has joined #prov
15:01:24 <Zakim> +??P32
15:01:40 <satya> Zakim, ??P32 is me
15:01:40 <Zakim> +satya; got it
15:01:41 <Luc> proposed: to accept Minutes of the June 7, 2012 Telecon 
15:01:41 <Zakim> +??P18
15:01:47 <stephenc> stephenc has joined #prov
15:01:51 <Curt> +1
15:01:56 <satya> +1
15:01:56 <dgarijo> Zakim, ??P18 is me
15:01:58 <tlebo> +1
15:01:59 <smiles> +1
15:02:00 <TomDN> +1
15:02:00 <Zakim> +dgarijo; got it
15:02:01 <CraigTrim> +1
15:02:10 <dgarijo> +0 (I attended partially)
15:02:12 <Zakim> +TomDN
15:02:14 <jun_> jun_ has joined #prov
15:02:25 <Paolo> +1 but not sure I have seen the minutes
15:02:34 <Luc> resolved: Minutes of the June 7, 2012 Telecon
15:03:01 <khalidbelhajjame> khalidbelhajjame has joined #prov
15:03:06 <Paolo> action on Luc: issue of collection membership completeness
15:03:06 <trackbot> Sorry, couldn't find user - on
15:03:21 <Paolo> Paolo and Luc consider this action complete
15:03:26 <Zakim> +??P4
15:03:41 <Paolo> new member CraigTrim
15:04:08 <Paolo> Craig  IBM very interested in provenance -- have been disseminating current results on WG within IBM
15:04:27 <Paolo> Craig still catching up, main role is to disseminate results within IBM
15:04:37 <Paolo> CRaig will be at the F2F
15:04:39 <Luc> topic: F2F3
15:04:51 <pgroth> http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/F2F3Schedule
15:05:33 <Paolo> pgroth F2F will include an update on status -- then focus on last call
15:06:03 <Paolo> pgroth what remains to be done going into last call, what is the outreach strategy 
15:06:42 <Paolo> pgroth discussion on notes as well as additional "outreach" notes (work with schema.org for example)
15:06:56 <Luc> q?
15:06:57 <Paolo> pgroth also discussion on implementations
15:07:14 <Paolo> (can't open the program page at w3c...0
15:07:36 <pgroth> if you have other topics please let us know
15:07:37 <Luc> q?
15:07:40 <dgarijo> @Paolo: I think the whole wiki is down
15:07:52 <pgroth> wiki is very shaky
15:07:53 <Luc> topic: Updates
15:08:02 <Paolo> @daniel back on now
15:08:20 <dgarijo> I can scribe
15:08:21 <tlebo> I'll scribe
15:08:26 <tlebo> go ahead, Dani
15:08:28 <dgarijo> ok
15:08:40 <dgarijo> Paolo: One action on Luc about completeness (done)
15:08:51 <dgarijo> ... discussion in the list, Paolo made edits in DM
15:09:19 <dgarijo> ... there can be some inconsistencies sometimes
15:09:47 <dgarijo> ... another issue, about membership, has already been addressed
15:09:55 <dgarijo> ... I joined prov-o call on monday
15:10:07 <dgarijo> ... and the changes were well received
15:10:17 <Luc> q?
15:10:22 <dgarijo> Luc: any questions?
15:10:47 <Paolo> Luc contextualization still an issue: Tim? 
15:11:21 <Paolo> tlebo converged on contextualization being a case of specialization
15:11:33 <Paolo> tlebo DM has converged to that def
15:11:47 <Paolo> tlebo next step prov-o will capture that in the ontology
15:12:17 <Paolo> tlebo GK still has concerns about violating /breaking RDF semantics -- GK invited to discuss
15:12:52 <Luc> q?
15:13:01 <Paolo> tlebo  is contextualization at risk? concerns that it's going too far, its capabilities don't warrant the extra level of explanation for that construct
15:13:53 <Paolo> Luc: setting an action on Graham to elaborate on his concern and provide an example 
15:14:31 <Paolo> Luc: useful to see how the construct is expressed in RDF. when is this happening?
15:14:37 <pgroth> http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/Bundle_contextualization
15:14:37 <Paolo> tlebo: early next week
15:15:33 <pgroth> +q
15:15:35 <Paolo> Luc: should contextualization be in the doc, or marked as "at risk"? propose to address this after the review, and make this a question to reviewers
15:15:39 <dgarijo> yes, I think it is reasonable
15:15:43 <Paolo> tlebo: agree
15:15:58 <khalidbelhajjame> I agree
15:16:18 <Paolo> pgroth: need not be a question to reviewers -- it will be addressed if it does come up during review
15:16:37 <pgroth> ack pgroth
15:17:02 <pgroth> +q
15:17:26 <Paolo> Luc: Graham has raised an issue on contextualization so he will have an opportunity to respond to that
15:17:30 <pgroth> ack pgroth
15:17:31 <Luc> ack pg
15:17:32 <khalidbelhajjame> I guess here we are talking about internal reviewing. A more important opinion w.r.t. contextualization is that of external reviewers
15:17:52 <Paolo> tlebo: state of prov-o
15:18:00 <pgroth> @khalidbelhajjame it's important that the group is good with it
15:18:21 <Paolo> tlebo: focus on resolving dependencies on DM
15:19:03 <Paolo> tlebo: ... on getting DM settled. DM is becoming the blocker on prov-o. once dm is through, it will be easier to release prov-o
15:19:14 <Luc> q?
15:19:31 <Paolo> smiles: primer is ready to review
15:19:42 <dgarijo> @Tim: Thanks for putting all toghether in the doc, Tim.
15:20:12 <Luc> q?
15:20:19 <Paolo> Luc: no progress on Constraints, will meet at IPAW to agree on how to proceed (Luc, James, Paolo)
15:20:23 <pgroth> +q
15:20:37 <Luc> topic: Schedule for internal release and review  
15:20:38 <Luc> ack pg
15:21:16 <Paolo> TOPIC: organizing documents reviews
15:21:56 <dgarijo> yes
15:21:58 <Paolo> Luc: DM; released today, all outstanding issues addressed AFA editors are concerned
15:22:00 <TomDN> yes :)
15:22:04 <dgarijo> I'll review it for next week.
15:22:10 <khalidbelhajjame> yes, I will review it
15:22:11 <Paolo> Luc: can reviewers confirm availability
15:22:36 <khalidbelhajjame> I will review the dm in the weekend
15:22:42 <dgarijo> next wednesday?
15:22:46 <TomDN> I'm planning to review it this weekend
15:22:51 <TomDN> (in the air)
15:23:24 <Paolo> Luc: propose DM review deadline by Wed June 20th
15:23:24 <TomDN> sounds good to me
15:23:25 <pgroth> +q
15:23:55 <pgroth> ack pgroth
15:24:19 <Paolo> pgroth: additional informal reviews welcome by F2F or sooner
15:24:56 <Paolo> Luc: prov-n also released today. reviewers please confirm?
15:24:56 <TomDN> +q
15:25:03 <TomDN> zakim, unmute me
15:25:03 <Zakim> TomDN was not muted, TomDN
15:25:42 <Paolo> TomDN: stephen on hols but still planning to do the review 
15:25:44 <Luc> ack pg
15:25:47 <Luc> ack tom
15:25:55 <TomDN> s/stephen/Sam
15:26:25 <Paolo> Luc: propose PROV-N review deadline by Thu June 21st
15:26:55 <Paolo> Luc: PROV-O?
15:27:01 <dgarijo> @Luc: Khalid is not on the phone. He has told me to say that he will possibly review PROV-N as well
15:27:16 <TomDN> same here for Sam. (not available right now, but will still review the document, probable after f2f3)
15:27:37 <Paolo> tlebo: propose PROV-O ready for review July 13th
15:28:16 <Paolo> Luc: what are the outstanding issues?
15:28:57 <pgroth> +q
15:29:01 <Paolo> tlebo:  contextualization, collections, working through examples, additional narrative for a variety of terms, existing narrative needs editing, harmonizing
15:29:13 <Luc> ack pgro
15:30:00 <Paolo> pgroth: key issue for last call is tech features are frozen. List of issues here are only contextualization and collections. the latter have not changed very much
15:30:16 <Paolo> pgroth: so what are the remaining /tech/ issues?
15:30:23 <Paolo> tlebo: contextualization and final review of collections
15:30:37 <Paolo> q+
15:30:50 <pgroth> q+
15:31:00 <pgroth> he's on vacation
15:31:59 <Luc> ack paolo
15:32:51 <Paolo> pgroth: main issue with Last Call is tech issues, editing can happen afterwards
15:32:55 <Luc> q?
15:33:01 <Luc> ack pgr
15:33:14 <Paolo> pgroth: can review ontology to help separate out tech vs editorial
15:34:24 <Paolo> tlebo: technically, close to being done -- provo html needs more work. so if all that matters is technical completeness, it can be done faster
15:35:10 <pgroth> +q
15:35:21 <Paolo> Luc: sandro and Ivan confirm that it is about technical content, i.e. frozen ontology is enough. then we get a chance to clarify and explain things better
15:36:08 <Paolo> tlebo: ontology can be finalized by mid next week, and whatever falls out of it into html (examples of terms etc.)
15:36:34 <Paolo> tlebo: to be released on June 14th 
15:36:43 <Luc> ack pg
15:37:16 <Paolo> pgroth: process calls for >= 3 wks of last call feedback. 
15:38:02 <Paolo> Luc: Sam, pgroth, Luc to review prov-o
15:38:17 <Paolo> pgroth: confirms
15:38:30 <CraigTrim> sure
15:38:54 <Paolo> Craig  added to list of reviewers
15:39:21 <Paolo> Luc: constraints doc: not sure when it will be ready. Will report back to group at F2F with an estimate
15:39:22 <Luc> q?
15:39:24 <pgroth> +q
15:40:08 <Paolo> pgroth: the constraints doc "falls out" of the DM -- is it on rec track?
15:40:16 <Paolo> Luc: it is on Rec track
15:40:43 <Paolo> Luc: we can pull it out and possibly make it a note 
15:41:12 <Paolo> pgroth: concerned about timing -- lagging considerably behind and it's a complicated doc
15:41:50 <Paolo> Luc: yes, but it has been simplified. Also, no need to release all docs at the same time
15:42:04 <Luc> q?
15:42:06 <Luc> ack pg
15:42:29 <Paolo> Luc: primer doc
15:42:45 <Paolo> smiles: ready for review
15:42:53 <Paolo> Luc: reviewers?
15:43:06 <TomDN> I'll review it
15:43:07 <pgroth> volunteer
15:43:22 <pgroth> +q to ask craig
15:43:32 <stephenc> OK, I volunteer
15:43:39 <CraigTrim> I've already been reviewing it, so go ahead and me in too
15:43:57 <Luc> ack pg
15:43:57 <Zakim> pgroth, you wanted to ask craig
15:44:16 <Paolo> smiles: familiarity with prov-n desirable... (Paolo) 
15:44:16 <CraigTrim> agreed - it's been a good doc so far back to IBM
15:44:33 <Luc> prov-primer reviewers: paolo, paul, stephenc, craig, luc
15:45:00 <Luc> q?
15:45:22 <Paolo> Luc: update to prov-aq to be addressed later
15:45:51 <Paolo> Luc: questions for reviewers:  can the doc be released as a /regular/ WD? if not, what are the blocking issues
15:46:21 <Paolo> Luc: can the doc be pub as last call WD? see link to LC def by W3C 
15:47:01 <Paolo> Luc: in particular, reviewers who have raised issues, can they be closed?
15:47:48 <Paolo> Luc: proposal wasREvisionOf -> wasRevisedFrom:  no consensus, so can reviewers look at that
15:48:37 <Paolo> Luc: also in DM: "primitive data types" that are in RDF. However RDF is changing, so which version are we referring to? RDF 1.1 WD data types are different
15:49:15 <Luc> q?
15:49:18 <Paolo> Luc: worked with Ivan to make us robust wrt changes in RDF 1.1 -- should we list all data types as 1.1? reviewers should look into this
15:49:35 <Paolo> q+
15:49:58 <tlebo> paolo: what if someone says "no"?
15:50:10 <pgroth> +q
15:50:28 <Luc> ack paol
15:50:48 <tlebo> pgroth: we look at the issues and get to a resolution.
15:51:08 <tlebo> ... if no resolution, then we can vote.
15:51:12 <Paolo> pgroth: many options available -- if it is clear there is no resolution, we can vote. 
15:51:44 <Luc> q?
15:51:47 <Luc> ack pg
15:52:12 <pgroth> +q
15:52:37 <Paolo> pgroth: is there a LC for notes (primer)?
15:52:52 <Paolo> Luc: LC question does not apply to primer
15:53:43 <Paolo> Luc: decision can be deferred, to allow for further changes to the primer
15:53:44 <Luc> q?
15:53:51 <Luc> ack pg
15:54:10 <Paolo> pgroth: state of PAQ: next WD ready by next Tue
15:54:55 <Paolo> pgroth: after F2F we'll look at PAQ in detail again
15:55:13 <Luc> q?
15:55:14 <TomDN> +q
15:56:00 <TomDN> ack tomdn
15:56:11 <Paolo> Luc:  call arrangements for next week?
15:56:15 <Zakim> -??P1
15:56:23 <Paolo> pgroth: call should be cancelled next week
15:56:51 <Luc> q?
15:56:55 <Paolo> Luc: call cancelled
15:57:07 <Zakim> -??P2
15:57:09 <Zakim> - +1.661.382.aabb
15:57:10 <Zakim> -tlebo
15:57:10 <Zakim> -??P9
15:57:10 <dgarijo> byee
15:57:16 <Zakim> -pgroth
15:57:18 <TomDN> (I'll also be driving from San Francisco to SB on monday, by the way)
15:57:20 <Zakim> -Curt_Tilmes
15:57:23 <Zakim> -Luc
15:57:24 <Zakim> -dgarijo
15:57:26 <pgroth> trackbot, end telecon
15:57:26 <trackbot> Zakim, list attendees
15:57:34 <trackbot> RRSAgent, please draft minutes
15:57:34 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/06/14-prov-minutes.html trackbot
15:57:34 <Zakim> -??P4
15:57:35 <trackbot> RRSAgent, bye
15:57:35 <RRSAgent> I see no action items
15:57:36 <Zakim> As of this point the attendees have been +329331aaaa, TomDN, pgroth, +1.661.382.aabb, +1.518.276.aacc, tlebo, +44.238.059.aadd, Luc, Curt_Tilmes, MacTed, satya, dgarijo