IRC log of indie-ui on 2012-06-13

Timestamps are in UTC.

17:00:25 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #indie-ui
17:00:25 [RRSAgent]
logging to
17:00:28 [MichaelC]
rrsagent, make log world
17:00:40 [Zakim]
17:00:56 [MichaelC]
zakim, aaaa is Andy_Heath
17:00:56 [Zakim]
+Andy_Heath; got it
17:01:02 [Zakim]
17:01:13 [janina]
janina has joined #indie-ui
17:01:27 [MichaelC]
zakim, ??P4 is Janina_Sajka
17:01:27 [Zakim]
+Janina_Sajka; got it
17:01:36 [janina]
Meeting: IndieUI Task Force telecon
17:01:36 [janina]
Chair: Janina_Sajka
17:01:36 [janina]
agenda+ Source code repository
17:01:36 [janina]
agenda+ Task Force Work Statement
17:01:36 [janina]
agenda+ Recruiting
17:01:39 [MichaelC]
17:01:39 [janina]
agenda+ Need to identify test editor
17:01:41 [janina]
agenda+ Supporting User Contexts Module -- Rich Schwerdtfeger
17:01:43 [MichaelC]
regrets: Ted_O'Connor
17:01:44 [janina]
agenda+ Use Cases
17:01:46 [janina]
agenda+ Next Teleconference Scribe
17:01:49 [janina]
agenda+ Be Done
17:02:15 [janina]
zakim, who's here?
17:02:15 [Zakim]
On the phone I see Andy_Heath, Cooper, Janina_Sajka
17:02:16 [Zakim]
On IRC I see janina, RRSAgent, Zakim, andy, shepazu, MichaelC, smaug_
17:03:02 [clown]
clown has joined #indie-ui
17:03:29 [Zakim]
17:03:36 [Zakim]
17:03:46 [clown]
zakim, GVoice is Joseph_Scheuhammer
17:03:46 [Zakim]
+Joseph_Scheuhammer; got it
17:03:54 [clown]
zakim, I am Joseph_Scheuhammer
17:03:55 [Zakim]
ok, clown, I now associate you with Joseph_Scheuhammer
17:04:15 [abarsto]
abarsto has joined #indie-ui
17:04:20 [Zakim]
+ +358.718.00aabb
17:04:38 [Cathy]
Cathy has joined #indie-ui
17:04:38 [ArtB]
zakim, aabb is Art_Barstow
17:04:38 [Zakim]
+Art_Barstow; got it
17:04:50 [ArtB]
Present+ Art_Barstow, Cathy_Chan
17:05:27 [MichaelC]
regrets+ James_Craig
17:05:35 [MichaelC]
zakim, Art has Cathy_Chan
17:05:35 [Zakim]
+Cathy_Chan; got it
17:06:10 [ArtB]
Scribe: Art
17:06:14 [ArtB]
ScribeNick: ArtB
17:06:22 [janina]
zakim, who's here?
17:06:22 [Zakim]
On the phone I see Andy_Heath, Cooper, Janina_Sajka, Doug_Schepers, Joseph_Scheuhammer, Art_Barstow
17:06:24 [Zakim]
Art_Barstow has Cathy_Chan
17:06:24 [Zakim]
On IRC I see Cathy, ArtB, clown, janina, RRSAgent, Zakim, andy, shepazu, MichaelC, smaug_
17:07:39 [janina]
zakim, take up item 1
17:07:39 [Zakim]
agendum 1. "Source code repository" taken up [from janina]
17:08:07 [ArtB]
Present: Jania_Sajka, Michael_Cooper, Doug_Schepers, Art_Barstow, Cathy_Chan, Andy_Heath, Joseph_Scheuhammer
17:08:15 [ArtB]
Regrets: RichS
17:08:23 [ArtB]
Date: 13 June 2012
17:08:38 [ArtB]
Chair: Janina
17:08:45 [ArtB]
RRSAgent, make log Public
17:08:49 [ArtB]
RRSAgent, make minutes
17:08:49 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate ArtB
17:09:46 [ArtB]
Janina: source code repository
17:09:51 [ArtB]
… what are the issues?
17:09:58 [ArtB]
… that we need to discuss
17:10:15 [ArtB]
MC: I want guidance on structure of the repo
17:10:20 [ArtB]
… I asked James a question
17:10:31 [ArtB]
… could have a folder per deliverable
17:10:47 [ArtB]
… and other that could have other subfolders and files
17:11:08 [ArtB]
… James indicated version-specific dirs may not be needed because Hg can handle branches
17:11:32 [ArtB]
JS: is the proposed structure documented?
17:11:42 [ArtB]
MC: I can mail a proposal to the list
17:11:51 [MichaelC]
17:11:52 [MichaelC]
+ 1.0
17:11:54 [MichaelC]
+ spec
17:11:55 [MichaelC]
+ indie-ui-events.html
17:11:57 [MichaelC]
+ {supporting files if any}
17:11:58 [MichaelC]
+ tests
17:12:00 [MichaelC]
17:12:02 [MichaelC]
+ 1.0
17:12:03 [MichaelC]
+ spec
17:12:05 [MichaelC]
+ indie-ui-context.html
17:12:06 [ArtB]
JS: can also use tags
17:12:06 [MichaelC]
+ {supporting files if any}
17:12:08 [MichaelC]
+ tests
17:12:48 [ArtB]
AB: my recommendation is that we move this discussion to list after we see Michael's proposal
17:13:12 [ArtB]
DS: agree, let's take this to the list
17:13:20 [janina]
zakim, next item
17:13:20 [Zakim]
agendum 2. "Task Force Work Statement" taken up [from janina]
17:14:27 [ArtB]
Janina: we discussed this a bit last time
17:14:36 [ArtB]
MC: I have some outstanding input from Art
17:14:45 [ArtB]
… #9 he had a comment
17:15:07 [ArtB]
… he was wondering if need subteams
17:15:15 [ArtB]
Janina: we may need them
17:15:41 [ArtB]
… they have been useful in A11Y TF (HTML WG)
17:16:10 [ArtB]
AB: I am OK with the wording on point #9; agree subteams may be useful
17:16:26 [ArtB]
MC: main part is Participation section
17:16:49 [ArtB]
[ Michael reads the data … ]
17:17:02 [ArtB]
… Art thought Regrets was overkill
17:17:43 [ArtB]
Janina: regrets set expectation that there are participation requirements
17:18:05 [ArtB]
DS: that is a different pattern than the one Art and I use in other groups
17:18:37 [ArtB]
… we talked about this in yesterday's WebEvents call
17:18:59 [ArtB]
… some people didn't want to join the TF it it meant they *must* attend every call
17:19:15 [ArtB]
Janina: we can have "standing regrets"
17:19:34 [ArtB]
DS: think we will get more browser vendor participation if we don't have firm standing requirements
17:19:55 [ArtB]
JS: how about recommending but not requiring
17:20:01 [ArtB]
DS: that would be fine
17:20:07 [ArtB]
Janina: that would be OK
17:20:42 [ArtB]
MC: if attendance isn't required, it can complicate decision making
17:21:21 [ArtB]
DS: using email can help bring clarity because people can be more careful on their comments
17:21:30 [ArtB]
… want to make participation as inviting as possible
17:21:44 [ArtB]
… I would drop that section
17:21:54 [ArtB]
Janina: I want to at least recommend participation
17:22:22 [ArtB]
17:23:14 [ArtB]
Janina: there can also be misunderstanding with email
17:23:22 [ArtB]
… and voice confs can help bring clarity
17:23:52 [ArtB]
… I realize we can never pick a time that will work well for everyone
17:24:03 [ArtB]
… Both channels are valuable
17:26:01 [ArtB]
AB: I would prefer "highly encourage" in terms of telcon meetings
17:26:23 [Zakim]
17:26:57 [ArtB]
… and I am OK with asking all Editors to send Regrets
17:27:02 [Zakim]
17:27:40 [ArtB]
Janina: think we should take this offline
17:28:07 [ArtB]
DS: if there is a problem on the list, it may be a misunderstanding by someone that is not in the TF
17:28:43 [ArtB]
… but if the misunderstanding is among TF members, it makes sense to use telecon time to help clarify the misunderstanding
17:29:09 [ArtB]
Janina: I agree Doug
17:29:15 [ArtB]
MC: I'll take this offline
17:29:30 [ArtB]
… any other issues about the Work Statement?
17:29:32 [ArtB]
[ None ]
17:29:46 [ArtB]
Janina: ok, hearing no objections we will move on
17:29:54 [ArtB]
zakim, next item
17:29:54 [Zakim]
I see a speaker queue remaining and respectfully decline to close this agendum, ArtB
17:30:03 [ArtB]
17:30:41 [ArtB]
zakim, next item
17:30:41 [Zakim]
agendum 3. "Recruiting" taken up [from janina]
17:30:56 [ArtB]
Janina: would like to get browser vendors
17:31:05 [ArtB]
17:31:18 [ArtB]
… we of course want broad implementation
17:31:25 [ArtB]
… need someone from Mozilla
17:31:32 [ArtB]
… would be good to get IE people
17:31:40 [ArtB]
… we have at least one Webkit (Apple)
17:32:06 [ArtB]
Janina: what about Web Events
17:32:10 [ArtB]
17:32:21 [janina]
17:32:25 [MichaelC]
scribeNick: McihaelC
17:32:29 [clown]
17:32:31 [MichaelC]
scribeNick: MichaelC
17:32:56 [MichaelC]
ArtB: Rick Byers working on Chrome tablet, needs to learn first Touch events
17:33:15 [MichaelC]
Opera wants to follow, but Web Events candidate based in Tokyo, difficult for telecon
17:33:52 [MichaelC]
Mozilla interested, probably will have someone but not identified who yet
17:34:06 [MichaelC]
would help to have concrete specs for recruiting process
17:34:55 [MichaelC]
Janina: we have starter draft from Apple that has gone through a couple revisions
17:36:23 [MichaelC]
mc: have a version ready to post, pending resolution on repository structure
17:36:37 [MichaelC]
there are old versions around, but they don't have standing and reluctant to reference
17:36:53 [MichaelC]
Janina: think we're about a week away from having sharable stuff
17:37:38 [shepazu]
17:38:11 [ArtB]
ScribeNick: ArtB
17:38:17 [MichaelC]
and next week's call is a good time to invite people to look in
17:38:39 [ArtB]
Janina: what do we do before we have a doc in Hg?
17:39:05 [ArtB]
DS: I think Art was also asking when is there going to be a Call for Proposals?
17:39:40 [ArtB]
… I think we should put out a CfPs
17:39:56 [ArtB]
MC: Apple's proposal is all we have now
17:40:29 [ArtB]
… my inclination is that we put out a first doc and then put out a CfP
17:40:59 [ArtB]
Janina: we could put out Apple's spec and then make a Call for Counter Proposals
17:41:10 [ArtB]
AH: that could be a conflict
17:41:14 [Zakim]
17:41:22 [ArtB]
Present+ RichS
17:41:44 [ArtB]
DS: Art and I were asking for a CfP and Apple's could be one such proposal
17:42:04 [richardschwerdtfe]
richardschwerdtfe has joined #indie-ui
17:42:09 [ArtB]
MC: I think Apple's proposal can be used to help recruiting
17:42:40 [ArtB]
… if we don't have something concrete, the CfP may not be that useful
17:43:05 [ArtB]
DS: since we are just starting, perhaps not having something too specific would be good
17:43:47 [ArtB]
… if we have Apple's proposal on the table, it could limit inputs
17:43:57 [ArtB]
Janina: so the priority is to start the CfP?
17:43:59 [ArtB]
DS: yes
17:44:07 [ArtB]
Janina: any objections to doing that now?
17:44:14 [ArtB]
DS: no
17:44:23 [ArtB]
Rich: what about UCs?
17:44:32 [ArtB]
DS: we could collect them at the same time
17:44:49 [ArtB]
Janina: what about a deadline?
17:45:02 [ArtB]
DS: perhaps two weeks
17:45:33 [ArtB]
Rich: I think we can expect inputs from IBM
17:46:03 [ArtB]
Janina: I will work with Michael, Doug and Art on the CfP
17:46:09 [ArtB]
… and do so by next week
17:46:26 [ArtB]
… How does that sound?
17:46:38 [ArtB]
Rich: sounds OK
17:46:56 [ArtB]
… as long as names aren't fixed yet
17:47:02 [ArtB]
… we need other inputs
17:47:52 [ArtB]
Janina: I would be thrilled to have multiple proposals
17:48:02 [ArtB]
AB: I think your plan is a good one Janina
17:48:20 [ArtB]
Rich: do we have a wiki for UCs?
17:48:32 [ArtB]
Janina: we can talk about UCs today
17:48:40 [shepazu]
17:48:42 [ArtB]
… agree we start talking about them
17:49:18 [ArtB]
JS: there was a Gnome a11y meeting last week
17:49:23 [ArtB]
… I mentioned this WG
17:49:30 [ArtB]
… there was some interest
17:49:44 [ArtB]
… and someone may apply as an Invited Expert
17:49:57 [janina]
17:50:20 [ArtB]
JS: Joanmarie works on Orca screen reader
17:50:42 [ArtB]
… there will be another meeting tomorrow
17:50:54 [ArtB]
… and I'll mention our status
17:51:12 [clown]
17:51:15 [janina]
topic: use cases
17:51:36 [shepazu]
17:51:42 [ArtB]
DS: I am working on the UCs wiki
17:52:02 [ArtB]
… based on the Audio WG's UCs work
17:52:08 [ArtB]
Rich: I like the priorities
17:52:14 [ArtB]
… who sets them?
17:52:24 [ArtB]
DS: the Audio WG decides, on calls
17:52:48 [ArtB]
… about the priorities over discussion related to versions
17:53:00 [ArtB]
… and this helps us identify the highest priority for v1
17:53:26 [ArtB]
… v1 is aimed at something that can be broadly implemented ASAP
17:53:42 [ArtB]
… This WG may choose to do something else
17:55:34 [shepazu]
17:55:39 [ArtB]
AB: UCs work with Touch Events spec was very useful
17:55:46 [ArtB]
… for capturing priorities
17:55:59 [ArtB]
… and to have a place to log UC and Reqs for
17:56:10 [ArtB]
17:56:29 [ArtB]
… Let me talk about Audio WG's UC work
17:56:37 [ArtB]
… We give each UC an ID
17:56:59 [ArtB]
… and then describe a story
17:56:59 [Zakim]
17:57:23 [ArtB]
… For each UC we include some Notes as well as a Priority
17:57:44 [ArtB]
… For each UC we also document the related Requirements
17:58:20 [andy]
can't get back in
17:58:47 [andy]
The conference is restricted at this time
17:59:10 [ArtB]
… A UC's Notes can include some points of the group's consensus on the UC
17:59:23 [andy]
ok - I'll watch IRC then
18:00:40 [janina]
18:00:47 [janina]
ack d
18:00:51 [janina]
ack s
18:00:53 [ArtB]
DS: we have noticed that some requirements can span more than one UC
18:01:42 [ArtB]
Rich: I like this
18:01:49 [ArtB]
Janina: I agree; this is awesom
18:01:55 [ArtB]
18:02:14 [ArtB]
DS: Rich, can your UCs map to this structure?
18:02:19 [ArtB]
Rich: yes; thanks very much
18:02:32 [ArtB]
DS: well, it's the Audio WG that we need to thank ;-)
18:02:42 [ArtB]
Janina: yes, I like this a lot
18:03:03 [ArtB]
DS: I will try to fill out at least one UC and some Reqs before the next call
18:03:15 [ArtB]
… and include "real" data
18:03:27 [ArtB]
Janina: ok; great please do that
18:03:40 [ArtB]
… and Michael will continue to do the Hg work
18:03:55 [ArtB]
… I will try to get a draft CfP to Doug, Mike and Art by end of this week
18:04:16 [ArtB]
… Thanks all for a productive meeting!
18:04:18 [Zakim]
18:04:20 [Zakim]
18:04:20 [Zakim]
18:04:22 [Zakim]
18:04:22 [Zakim]
18:04:23 [Zakim]
WAI_Indie()1:00PM has ended
18:04:23 [Zakim]
Attendees were +44.114.288.aaaa, Cooper, Andy_Heath, Janina_Sajka, Doug_Schepers, Joseph_Scheuhammer, +358.718.00aabb, Cathy_Chan, Rich
18:04:30 [ArtB]
RRSAgent, make minutes
18:04:30 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate ArtB
18:05:37 [shepazu]
richardschwerdtfe: do you have any use cases I can pillage and plunder for this?
18:33:45 [janina]
janina has left #indie-ui
19:36:08 [ArtB]
zakim, who's here?
19:36:11 [Zakim]
apparently WAI_Indie()1:00PM has ended, ArtB
19:36:12 [Zakim]
On IRC I see ArtB, clown, RRSAgent, Zakim, andy, shepazu, MichaelC
19:36:16 [ArtB]
zakim, bye
19:36:18 [Zakim]
Zakim has left #indie-ui
19:36:21 [ArtB]
rrsagent, bye
19:36:21 [RRSAgent]
I see no action items