17:00:25 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #indie-ui
17:00:25 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2012/06/13-indie-ui-irc
17:00:28 <MichaelC> rrsagent, make log world
17:00:40 <Zakim> +Cooper
17:00:56 <MichaelC> zakim, aaaa is Andy_Heath
17:00:56 <Zakim> +Andy_Heath; got it
17:01:02 <Zakim> +??P4
17:01:13 <janina> janina has joined #indie-ui
17:01:27 <MichaelC> zakim, ??P4 is Janina_Sajka
17:01:27 <Zakim> +Janina_Sajka; got it
17:01:36 <janina> Meeting: IndieUI Task Force telecon
17:01:36 <janina> Chair: Janina_Sajka
17:01:36 <janina> agenda+ Source code repository
17:01:36 <janina> agenda+ Task Force Work Statement http://www.w3.org/WAI/IndieUI/IUITF
17:01:36 <janina> agenda+ Recruiting
17:01:39 <MichaelC> agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-indie-ui/2012Jun/0007.html
17:01:39 <janina> agenda+ Need to identify test editor
17:01:41 <janina> agenda+ Supporting User Contexts Module -- Rich Schwerdtfeger
17:01:43 <MichaelC> regrets: Ted_O'Connor
17:01:44 <janina> agenda+ Use Cases
17:01:46 <janina> agenda+ Next Teleconference Scribe
17:01:49 <janina> agenda+ Be Done
17:02:15 <janina>  zakim, who's here?
17:02:15 <Zakim> On the phone I see Andy_Heath, Cooper, Janina_Sajka
17:02:16 <Zakim> On IRC I see janina, RRSAgent, Zakim, andy, shepazu, MichaelC, smaug_
17:03:02 <clown> clown has joined #indie-ui
17:03:29 <Zakim> +Doug_Schepers
17:03:36 <Zakim> +[GVoice]
17:03:46 <clown> zakim, GVoice is Joseph_Scheuhammer
17:03:46 <Zakim> +Joseph_Scheuhammer; got it
17:03:54 <clown> zakim, I am Joseph_Scheuhammer
17:03:55 <Zakim> ok, clown, I now associate you with Joseph_Scheuhammer
17:04:15 <abarsto> abarsto has joined #indie-ui
17:04:20 <Zakim> + +358.718.00aabb
17:04:38 <Cathy> Cathy has joined #indie-ui
17:04:38 <ArtB> zakim, aabb is Art_Barstow
17:04:38 <Zakim> +Art_Barstow; got it
17:04:50 <ArtB> Present+ Art_Barstow, Cathy_Chan
17:05:27 <MichaelC> regrets+ James_Craig
17:05:35 <MichaelC> zakim, Art has Cathy_Chan
17:05:35 <Zakim> +Cathy_Chan; got it
17:06:10 <ArtB> Scribe: Art
17:06:14 <ArtB> ScribeNick: ArtB
17:06:22 <janina> zakim, who's here?
17:06:22 <Zakim> On the phone I see Andy_Heath, Cooper, Janina_Sajka, Doug_Schepers, Joseph_Scheuhammer, Art_Barstow
17:06:24 <Zakim> Art_Barstow has Cathy_Chan
17:06:24 <Zakim> On IRC I see Cathy, ArtB, clown, janina, RRSAgent, Zakim, andy, shepazu, MichaelC, smaug_
17:07:39 <janina> zakim, take up item 1
17:07:39 <Zakim> agendum 1. "Source code repository" taken up [from janina]
17:08:07 <ArtB> Present: Jania_Sajka, Michael_Cooper, Doug_Schepers, Art_Barstow, Cathy_Chan, Andy_Heath, Joseph_Scheuhammer
17:08:15 <ArtB> Regrets: RichS
17:08:23 <ArtB> Date: 13 June 2012
17:08:38 <ArtB> Chair: Janina
17:08:45 <ArtB> RRSAgent, make log Public
17:08:49 <ArtB> RRSAgent, make minutes
17:08:49 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/06/13-indie-ui-minutes.html ArtB
17:09:46 <ArtB> Janina: source code repository
17:09:51 <ArtB> … what are the issues?
17:09:58 <ArtB> … that we need to discuss
17:10:15 <ArtB> MC: I want guidance on structure of the repo
17:10:20 <ArtB> … I asked James a question
17:10:31 <ArtB> … could have a folder per deliverable
17:10:47 <ArtB> … and other that could have other subfolders and files
17:11:08 <ArtB> … James indicated version-specific dirs may not be needed because Hg can handle branches
17:11:32 <ArtB> JS: is the proposed structure documented?
17:11:42 <ArtB> MC: I can mail a proposal to the list
17:11:51 <MichaelC> events
17:11:52 <MichaelC>   + 1.0
17:11:54 <MichaelC>     + spec
17:11:55 <MichaelC>       + indie-ui-events.html
17:11:57 <MichaelC>       + {supporting files if any}
17:11:58 <MichaelC>     + tests
17:12:00 <MichaelC> context
17:12:02 <MichaelC>   + 1.0
17:12:03 <MichaelC>     + spec
17:12:05 <MichaelC>       + indie-ui-context.html
17:12:06 <ArtB> JS: can also use tags
17:12:06 <MichaelC>       + {supporting files if any}
17:12:08 <MichaelC>     + tests
17:12:48 <ArtB> AB: my recommendation is that we move this discussion to list after we see Michael's proposal
17:13:12 <ArtB> DS: agree, let's take this to the list
17:13:20 <janina> zakim, next item
17:13:20 <Zakim> agendum 2. "Task Force Work Statement http://www.w3.org/WAI/IndieUI/IUITF" taken up [from janina]
17:14:27 <ArtB> Janina: we discussed this a bit last time
17:14:36 <ArtB> MC: I have some outstanding input from Art
17:14:45 <ArtB> … #9 he had a comment
17:15:07 <ArtB> … he was wondering if need subteams
17:15:15 <ArtB> Janina: we may need them
17:15:41 <ArtB> … they have been useful in A11Y TF (HTML WG)
17:16:10 <ArtB> AB: I am OK with the wording on point #9; agree subteams may be useful
17:16:26 <ArtB> MC: main part is Participation section
17:16:49 <ArtB> [ Michael reads the data … ]
17:17:02 <ArtB> … Art thought Regrets was overkill
17:17:43 <ArtB> Janina: regrets set expectation that there are participation requirements
17:18:05 <ArtB> DS: that is a different pattern than the one Art and I use in other groups
17:18:37 <ArtB> … we talked about this in yesterday's WebEvents call
17:18:59 <ArtB> … some people didn't want to join the TF it it meant they *must* attend every call
17:19:15 <ArtB> Janina: we can have "standing regrets"
17:19:34 <ArtB> DS: think we will get more browser vendor participation if we don't have firm standing requirements
17:19:55 <ArtB> JS: how about recommending but not requiring
17:20:01 <ArtB> DS: that would be fine
17:20:07 <ArtB> Janina: that would be OK
17:20:42 <ArtB> MC: if attendance isn't required, it can complicate decision making
17:21:21 <ArtB> DS: using email can help bring clarity because people can be more careful on their comments
17:21:30 <ArtB> … want to make participation as inviting as possible
17:21:44 <ArtB> … I would drop that section
17:21:54 <ArtB> Janina: I want to at least recommend participation
17:22:22 <ArtB> q+
17:23:14 <ArtB> Janina: there can also be misunderstanding with email
17:23:22 <ArtB> … and voice confs can help bring clarity
17:23:52 <ArtB> … I realize we can never pick a time that will work well for everyone
17:24:03 <ArtB> … Both channels are valuable
17:26:01 <ArtB> AB: I would prefer "highly encourage" in terms of telcon meetings
17:26:23 <Zakim> -Doug_Schepers
17:26:57 <ArtB> … and I am OK with asking all Editors to send Regrets
17:27:02 <Zakim> +Doug_Schepers
17:27:40 <ArtB> Janina: think we should take this offline
17:28:07 <ArtB> DS: if there is a problem on the list, it may be a misunderstanding by someone that is not in the TF
17:28:43 <ArtB> … but if the misunderstanding is among TF members, it makes sense to use telecon time to help clarify the misunderstanding
17:29:09 <ArtB> Janina: I agree Doug
17:29:15 <ArtB> MC: I'll take this offline
17:29:30 <ArtB> … any other issues about the Work Statement?
17:29:32 <ArtB> [ None ]
17:29:46 <ArtB> Janina: ok, hearing no objections we will move on
17:29:54 <ArtB> zakim, next item
17:29:54 <Zakim> I see a speaker queue remaining and respectfully decline to close this agendum, ArtB
17:30:03 <ArtB> q-
17:30:41 <ArtB> zakim, next item
17:30:41 <Zakim> agendum 3. "Recruiting" taken up [from janina]
17:30:56 <ArtB> Janina: would like to get browser vendors
17:31:05 <ArtB> q+
17:31:18 <ArtB> … we of course want broad implementation
17:31:25 <ArtB> … need someone from Mozilla
17:31:32 <ArtB> … would be good to get IE people
17:31:40 <ArtB> … we have at least one Webkit (Apple)
17:32:06 <ArtB> Janina: what about Web Events
17:32:10 <ArtB> q-
17:32:21 <janina> q?
17:32:25 <MichaelC> scribeNick: McihaelC
17:32:29 <clown> q+
17:32:31 <MichaelC> scribeNick: MichaelC
17:32:56 <MichaelC> ArtB: Rick Byers working on Chrome tablet, needs to learn first Touch events
17:33:15 <MichaelC> Opera wants to follow, but Web Events candidate based in Tokyo, difficult for telecon
17:33:52 <MichaelC> Mozilla interested, probably will have someone but not identified who yet
17:34:06 <MichaelC> would help to have concrete specs for recruiting process
17:34:55 <MichaelC> Janina: we have starter draft from Apple that has gone through a couple revisions
17:36:23 <MichaelC> mc: have a version ready to post, pending resolution on repository structure
17:36:37 <MichaelC> there are old versions around, but they don't have standing and reluctant to reference
17:36:53 <MichaelC> Janina: think we're about a week away from having sharable stuff
17:37:38 <shepazu> q+
17:38:11 <ArtB> ScribeNick: ArtB
17:38:17 <MichaelC> and next week's call is a good time to invite people to look in
17:38:39 <ArtB> Janina: what do we do before we have a doc in Hg?
17:39:05 <ArtB> DS: I think Art was also asking when is there going to be a Call for Proposals?
17:39:40 <ArtB> … I think we should put out a CfPs 
17:39:56 <ArtB> MC: Apple's proposal is all we have now
17:40:29 <ArtB> … my inclination is that we put out a first doc and then put out a CfP
17:40:59 <ArtB> Janina: we could put out Apple's spec and then make a Call for Counter Proposals
17:41:10 <ArtB> AH: that could be a conflict
17:41:14 <Zakim> +Rich
17:41:22 <ArtB> Present+ RichS
17:41:44 <ArtB> DS: Art and I were asking for a CfP and Apple's could be one such proposal
17:42:04 <richardschwerdtfe> richardschwerdtfe has joined #indie-ui
17:42:09 <ArtB> MC: I think Apple's proposal can be used to help recruiting
17:42:40 <ArtB> … if we don't have something concrete, the CfP may not be that useful
17:43:05 <ArtB> DS: since we are just starting, perhaps not having something too specific would be good
17:43:47 <ArtB> … if we have Apple's proposal on the table, it could limit inputs
17:43:57 <ArtB> Janina: so the priority is to start the CfP?
17:43:59 <ArtB> DS: yes
17:44:07 <ArtB> Janina: any objections to doing that now?
17:44:14 <ArtB> DS: no
17:44:23 <ArtB> Rich: what about UCs?
17:44:32 <ArtB> DS: we could collect them at the same time
17:44:49 <ArtB> Janina: what about a deadline?
17:45:02 <ArtB> DS: perhaps two weeks
17:45:33 <ArtB> Rich: I think we can expect inputs from IBM
17:46:03 <ArtB> Janina: I will work with Michael, Doug and Art on the CfP
17:46:09 <ArtB> … and do so by next week
17:46:26 <ArtB> … How does that sound?
17:46:38 <ArtB> Rich: sounds OK
17:46:56 <ArtB> … as long as names aren't fixed yet
17:47:02 <ArtB> … we need other inputs
17:47:52 <ArtB> Janina: I would be thrilled  to have multiple proposals
17:48:02 <ArtB> AB: I think your plan is a good one Janina
17:48:20 <ArtB> Rich: do we have a wiki for UCs?
17:48:32 <ArtB> Janina: we can talk about UCs today
17:48:40 <shepazu> q+
17:48:42 <ArtB> … agree we start talking about them
17:49:18 <ArtB> JS: there was a Gnome a11y meeting last week
17:49:23 <ArtB> … I mentioned this WG
17:49:30 <ArtB> … there was some interest
17:49:44 <ArtB> … and someone may apply as an Invited Expert
17:49:57 <janina> Joanmarie
17:50:20 <ArtB> JS: Joanmarie works on Orca screen reader 
17:50:42 <ArtB> … there will be another meeting tomorrow
17:50:54 <ArtB> … and I'll mention our status
17:51:12 <clown> q-
17:51:15 <janina> topic: use cases
17:51:36 <shepazu> http://www.w3.org/2011/audio/wiki/Use_Cases_and_Requirements
17:51:42 <ArtB> DS: I am working on the UCs wiki
17:52:02 <ArtB> … based on the Audio WG's UCs work
17:52:08 <ArtB> Rich: I like the priorities
17:52:14 <ArtB> … who sets them?
17:52:24 <ArtB> DS: the Audio WG decides, on calls
17:52:48 <ArtB> … about the priorities over discussion related to versions
17:53:00 <ArtB> … and this helps us identify the highest priority for v1
17:53:26 <ArtB> … v1 is aimed at something that can be broadly implemented ASAP
17:53:42 <ArtB> … This WG may choose to do something else
17:55:34 <shepazu> http://www.w3.org/WAI/IndieUI/wiki/Use_Cases_and_Requirements
17:55:39 <ArtB> AB: UCs work with Touch Events spec was very useful
17:55:46 <ArtB> … for capturing priorities
17:55:59 <ArtB> … and to have a place to log UC and Reqs for v.next
17:56:10 <ArtB> DS: http://www.w3.org/WAI/IndieUI/wiki/Use_Cases_and_Requirements
17:56:29 <ArtB> … Let me talk about Audio WG's UC work
17:56:37 <ArtB> … We give each UC an ID
17:56:59 <ArtB> … and then describe a story
17:56:59 <Zakim> -Andy_Heath
17:57:23 <ArtB> … For each UC we include some Notes as well as a Priority
17:57:44 <ArtB> … For each UC we also document the related Requirements
17:58:20 <andy> can't get back in
17:58:47 <andy> The conference is restricted at this time
17:59:10 <ArtB> … A UC's Notes can include some points of the group's consensus on the UC
17:59:23 <andy> ok - I'll watch IRC then
18:00:40 <janina> q?
18:00:47 <janina> ack d
18:00:51 <janina> ack s
18:00:53 <ArtB> DS: we have noticed that some requirements can span more than one UC
18:01:42 <ArtB> Rich: I like this
18:01:49 <ArtB> Janina: I agree; this is awesom
18:01:55 <ArtB> s/awesom/awesome/
18:02:14 <ArtB> DS: Rich, can your UCs map to this structure?
18:02:19 <ArtB> Rich: yes; thanks very much
18:02:32 <ArtB> DS: well, it's the Audio WG that we need to thank ;-)
18:02:42 <ArtB> Janina: yes, I like this a lot
18:03:03 <ArtB> DS: I will try to fill out at least one UC and some Reqs before the next call
18:03:15 <ArtB> … and include "real" data
18:03:27 <ArtB> Janina: ok; great please do that
18:03:40 <ArtB> … and Michael will continue to do the Hg work
18:03:55 <ArtB> … I will try to get a draft CfP to Doug, Mike and Art by end of this week
18:04:16 <ArtB> … Thanks all for a productive meeting!
18:04:18 <Zakim> -Janina_Sajka
18:04:20 <Zakim> -Doug_Schepers
18:04:20 <Zakim> -Cooper
18:04:22 <Zakim> -Rich
18:04:22 <Zakim> -Art_Barstow
18:04:23 <Zakim> WAI_Indie()1:00PM has ended
18:04:23 <Zakim> Attendees were +44.114.288.aaaa, Cooper, Andy_Heath, Janina_Sajka, Doug_Schepers, Joseph_Scheuhammer, +358.718.00aabb, Cathy_Chan, Rich
18:04:30 <ArtB> RRSAgent, make minutes
18:04:30 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/06/13-indie-ui-minutes.html ArtB
18:05:37 <shepazu> richardschwerdtfe: do you have any use cases I can pillage and plunder for this?
18:33:45 <janina> janina has left #indie-ui
19:36:08 <ArtB> zakim, who's here?
19:36:11 <Zakim> apparently WAI_Indie()1:00PM has ended, ArtB
19:36:12 <Zakim> On IRC I see ArtB, clown, RRSAgent, Zakim, andy, shepazu, MichaelC
19:36:16 <ArtB> zakim, bye
19:36:18 <Zakim> Zakim has left #indie-ui
19:36:21 <ArtB> rrsagent, bye
19:36:21 <RRSAgent> I see no action items