IRC log of crypto on 2012-06-11
Timestamps are in UTC.
- 18:53:18 [RRSAgent]
- RRSAgent has joined #crypto
- 18:53:18 [RRSAgent]
- logging to http://www.w3.org/2012/06/11-crypto-irc
- 18:54:04 [wtc]
- wtc has joined #crypto
- 18:54:43 [virginie_galindo]
- Chair: Virginie Galindo
- 18:55:00 [hhalpin]
- Zakim, pick a scribe
- 18:55:00 [Zakim]
- sorry, hhalpin, I don't know what conference this is
- 18:55:05 [hhalpin]
- Zakim, this is Crypto
- 18:55:05 [Zakim]
- sorry, hhalpin, I do not see a conference named 'Crypto' in progress or scheduled at this time
- 18:55:42 [JimD]
- JimD has left #crypto
- 18:55:44 [vgb]
- vgb has joined #crypto
- 18:56:32 [emily]
- emily has joined #crypto
- 18:56:49 [hhalpin]
- Zakim, this is SEC_WebCryp
- 18:56:49 [Zakim]
- hhalpin, I see SEC_WebCryp()3:00PM in the schedule but not yet started. Perhaps you mean "this will be SEC_WebCryp".
- 18:56:56 [hhalpin]
- Zakim, this will be SEC_WebCryp
- 18:56:56 [Zakim]
- ok, hhalpin; I see SEC_WebCryp()3:00PM scheduled to start in 4 minutes
- 18:57:32 [Zakim]
- SEC_WebCryp()3:00PM has now started
- 18:57:41 [Zakim]
- + +33.6.13.23.aaaa
- 18:58:00 [hhalpin]
- agenda+ Welcome
- 18:58:06 [hhalpin]
- agenda+ Survey about API
- 18:58:16 [hhalpin]
- agenda+ Use-cases
- 18:58:20 [hhalpin]
- agenda+ Technical Discussion
- 18:58:21 [Zakim]
- + +1.707.799.aabb
- 18:58:29 [hhalpin]
- agenda+ Group Logistics
- 18:58:38 [hhalpin]
- Zakim, pick a scribe
- 18:58:38 [Zakim]
- Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose virginie_galindo
- 18:58:41 [hhalpin]
- Zakim, pick a scribe
- 18:58:41 [Zakim]
- Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose virginie_galindo
- 18:58:43 [hhalpin]
- Zakim, pick a scribe
- 18:58:43 [Zakim]
- Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose virginie_galindo
- 18:58:58 [Zakim]
- +Wendy
- 18:58:58 [Zakim]
- + +1.773.939.aacc
- 18:59:37 [JimD]
- JimD has joined #crypto
- 18:59:37 [Zakim]
- +John_Aberdeen
- 18:59:51 [Zakim]
- +[Microsoft]
- 19:00:05 [vgb]
- Zakim, [Microsoft] is me
- 19:00:05 [Zakim]
- +vgb; got it
- 19:00:09 [hhalpin]
- Zakim, what's the code?
- 19:00:09 [Zakim]
- the conference code is 27978 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), hhalpin
- 19:00:19 [Zakim]
- + +1.650.214.aadd
- 19:00:44 [wseltzer]
- zakim, aadd is Google
- 19:00:44 [Zakim]
- +Google; got it
- 19:01:58 [Zakim]
- +[Microsoft]
- 19:02:02 [ddahl]
- thanks wseltzer
- 19:02:14 [Zakim]
- + +1.408.540.aaee
- 19:02:15 [Zakim]
- + +1.512.257.aaff
- 19:02:24 [MitchZ]
- MitchZ has joined #crypto
- 19:02:37 [emily]
- zakim, aabb is emily
- 19:02:38 [Zakim]
- +emily; got it
- 19:02:56 [Zakim]
- +??P13
- 19:02:58 [Karen]
- Karen has joined #crypto
- 19:03:02 [hhalpin]
- Zakim, ??P13 is hhalpin
- 19:03:08 [Zakim]
- +hhalpin; got it
- 19:03:14 [MitchZ]
- Netflix on area code 408
- 19:03:23 [Zakim]
- +??P14
- 19:03:24 [hhalpin]
- Zakim, who is on the phone?
- 19:03:24 [Zakim]
- On the phone I see virginie_galindo, emily, ddahl, Wendy, Jim_Davenport, vgb, Google, [Microsoft], +1.408.540.aaee, +1.512.257.aaff, hhalpin, ??P14
- 19:03:24 [Zakim]
- Google has rsleevi, wtc
- 19:03:24 [Zakim]
- [Microsoft] has Mike_Jones
- 19:03:30 [hhalpin]
- Zakim, pick a scribe
- 19:03:30 [Zakim]
- Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose +1.512.257.aaff
- 19:04:41 [Channy]
- zakim, Channy is channy_yun
- 19:04:41 [Zakim]
- sorry, Channy, I do not recognize a party named 'Channy'
- 19:04:47 [wseltzer]
- Some good scribe instructions, for further reference: https://www.w3.org/2008/xmlsec/Group/Scribe-Instructions.html
- 19:04:50 [MitchZ]
- zakim aaee is Netflix
- 19:04:52 [hhalpin]
- scribe: Karen
- 19:05:12 [Karen]
- Harry: help scribe
- 19:05:34 [rsleevi]
- rsleevi has joined #crypto
- 19:05:48 [virginie_galindo]
- Zakim, who is on the phone?
- 19:05:48 [Zakim]
- On the phone I see virginie_galindo, emily, ddahl, Wendy, Jim_Davenport, vgb, Google, [Microsoft], Netflix, Karen, hhalpin, ??P14
- 19:05:51 [Zakim]
- Google has rsleevi, wtc
- 19:05:51 [Zakim]
- [Microsoft] has Mike_Jones
- 19:05:51 [Zakim]
- Netflix has MitchZ
- 19:06:45 [JimD]
- zakim, who is talking
- 19:06:45 [Zakim]
- I don't understand 'who is talking', JimD
- 19:06:55 [JimD]
- there is some command to see who is talking
- 19:07:03 [hhalpin]
- Zakim, who is making noise?
- 19:07:23 [Zakim]
- hhalpin, listening for 11 seconds I could not identify any sounds
- 19:07:35 [sdurbha]
- sdurbha has joined #crypto
- 19:07:41 [markw]
- markw has joined #crypto
- 19:08:17 [Zakim]
- +??P18
- 19:08:29 [ddahl]
- Channy: are you on the phone?
- 19:08:30 [wseltzer]
- Channy, are you on the phone or just IRC?
- 19:08:31 [hhalpin]
- Zakim, scribenick Karen
- 19:08:31 [Zakim]
- I don't understand 'scribenick Karen', hhalpin
- 19:08:49 [hhalpin]
- scribenick: Karen
- 19:09:05 [sdurbha]
- p18 sdurbha
- 19:09:10 [Zakim]
- + +1.978.936.aagg
- 19:09:14 [wseltzer]
- zakim, p18 is sdurbha
- 19:09:14 [Zakim]
- sorry, wseltzer, I do not recognize a party named 'p18'
- 19:09:19 [wseltzer]
- zakim, ??p18 is sdurbha
- 19:09:19 [Zakim]
- +sdurbha; got it
- 19:09:22 [hhalpin]
- Zakim, ??P18 is sdurbha
- 19:09:22 [Zakim]
- I already had ??P18 as sdurbha, hhalpin
- 19:09:30 [Channy]
- ddahl, just IRC
- 19:09:32 [wseltzer]
- zakim, aagg is pgladstone
- 19:09:32 [Zakim]
- +pgladstone; got it
- 19:09:38 [ddahl]
- Channy: thx
- 19:09:39 [PhilipG]
- PhilipG has joined #crypto
- 19:10:04 [hhalpin]
- agenda?
- 19:10:05 [Karen]
- Virginie: agenda
- 19:10:20 [wseltzer]
- -> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-webcrypto/2012Jun/0043.html
- 19:10:57 [Karen]
- Other topics?
- 19:11:20 [hhalpin]
- Zakim, who's on the phone?
- 19:11:20 [Zakim]
- On the phone I see virginie_galindo, emily, ddahl, Wendy, Jim_Davenport, vgb, Google, [Microsoft], Netflix, Karen, hhalpin, ??P14, sdurbha, pgladstone
- 19:11:23 [Zakim]
- Google has rsleevi, wtc
- 19:11:23 [Zakim]
- [Microsoft] has Mike_Jones
- 19:11:23 [Zakim]
- Netflix has MitchZ
- 19:14:15 [tl1]
- tl1 has joined #crypto
- 19:15:35 [wseltzer]
- Present +David_Hooley
- 19:16:03 [virginie_galindo]
- http://www.w3.org/2012/06/04-crypto-minutes.html
- 19:16:16 [Karen]
- Virginie: previous minutes http://www.w3.org/2012/06/04-crypto-minutes.html
- 19:16:18 [hooley]
- hooley has joined #crypto
- 19:16:42 [hhalpin]
- PROPOSAL: accept http://www.w3.org/2012/06/04-crypto-minutes.html as minutes for the previous meeting, any objections?
- 19:16:44 [Karen]
- Harry: as long as no one object, it is approved
- 19:16:55 [hhalpin]
- RESOLVED: accepted http://www.w3.org/2012/06/04-crypto-minutes.html as minutes for the previous meeting.
- 19:17:16 [Karen]
- Virginie: take way does not replace minutes
- 19:17:28 [wseltzer]
- zakim, take up agendum 2
- 19:17:28 [Zakim]
- agendum 2. "Survey about API" taken up [from hhalpin]
- 19:17:42 [virginie_galindo]
- http://www.w3.org/2012/webcrypto/wiki/SurveyAnalysis
- 19:17:42 [ddahl]
- http://www.w3.org/2012/webcrypto/wiki/SurveyAnalysis
- 19:17:53 [hhalpin]
- topic: Survey about API
- 19:18:02 [Karen]
- David presents summary
- 19:18:37 [Karen]
- David: most want low level api
- 19:18:53 [Karen]
- david: we will figure out what does that mean
- 19:19:10 [Karen]
- david: one of question does not worded well - who will use api
- 19:19:40 [Karen]
- david: main answer: web app users
- 19:20:10 [Karen]
- david: main activities will be messaging, chatting, signature behind it
- 19:20:40 [Karen]
- david: a good set of data. we can get more answers as we go alone. please read through raw data
- 19:20:51 [Karen]
- virginie: thank you David for the efforts
- 19:20:59 [wseltzer]
- s/alone/along/
- 19:20:59 [Karen]
- virginie: any comments?
- 19:21:04 [sdurbha]
- q+
- 19:21:07 [hhalpin]
- q+
- 19:21:15 [vgb]
- q+
- 19:21:53 [Karen]
- sdurbha: emails seem to want high level api
- 19:22:24 [Karen]
- david: there are still discussions on what that means high or low level api
- 19:22:49 [Karen]
- david: I think low level is better so we can implement more func and follow standard
- 19:22:59 [Karen]
- david: high level api can be built on top
- 19:23:45 [Karen]
- harry: messaging and chatting on top is surprising.
- 19:23:47 [wtc]
- q+
- 19:24:17 [rsleevi]
- q+
- 19:24:24 [Karen]
- vgb: what is not clear - how people think this api with relation to tls
- 19:24:38 [Karen]
- vgb: an addition?
- 19:24:50 [Karen]
- vgb: to implement tls in browser?
- 19:25:15 [Karen]
- virginie: one feature - for web app to manage their security
- 19:25:30 [hhalpin]
- I'm pretty sure we are NOT going to replace TLS :)
- 19:25:31 [Karen]
- virginie: feature 2: tracking tls session
- 19:25:53 [ddahl]
- vgb: I don't think people want to be able to implement all of TLS, however, I think they do want to be able to secure and sign data before this data is pushed to the wire
- 19:26:05 [ddahl]
- wtc: rsleevi: got it! thanks!
- 19:26:07 [Karen]
- p1: ryan and I will contact david later in design api
- 19:26:15 [wseltzer]
- s/p1/wtc/
- 19:26:23 [Karen]
- david: use cases are not to replace tls
- 19:26:23 [hhalpin]
- I imagine we are going to add some functions that let people sign and encrypt some parts of the DOM dynamically using a few cross-browser methods.
- 19:27:00 [Karen]
- david: using secure messaging as an example - three persons involved
- 19:27:22 [ddahl]
- Karen: that is rsleevi :)
- 19:27:23 [Karen]
- david: bob and alice may be two users using carol's service
- 19:27:49 [Karen]
- sorry
- 19:28:03 [Karen]
- rsleevi: tls is only suited for two people talking
- 19:28:10 [Zakim]
- rsleevi, you wanted to respond
- 19:28:45 [Karen]
- virginie: to leverage what david said, we should focus on low level api first
- 19:29:00 [Karen]
- virginie: allow developers to control the operations
- 19:29:00 [Zakim]
- -[Microsoft]
- 19:29:17 [Karen]
- virginie: we can work on high level later
- 19:29:19 [sdurbha]
- +1
- 19:29:20 [rsleevi]
- +1
- 19:29:21 [hhalpin]
- +1
- 19:29:23 [JimD]
- +1
- 19:29:24 [Karen]
- +1
- 19:29:26 [ddahl]
- +1
- 19:29:28 [hhalpin]
- PROPOSAL: Start with low-level
- 19:29:28 [vgb]
- +1
- 19:29:29 [emily]
- +1
- 19:29:33 [wtc]
- +1
- 19:29:35 [wseltzer]
- +1
- 19:29:49 [hhalpin]
- RESOLUTION: Start with low-level API, then focus on high-level API
- 19:30:11 [Karen]
- Virginie: a3 use cases
- 19:30:16 [wseltzer]
- zakim, take up agendum 3
- 19:30:16 [Zakim]
- agendum 3. "Use-cases" taken up [from hhalpin]
- 19:30:17 [hhalpin]
- Zakim, next agendum
- 19:30:17 [Zakim]
- agendum 3 was just opened, hhalpin
- 19:30:22 [hhalpin]
- topic: Use-cases
- 19:30:38 [wseltzer]
- -> http://www.w3.org/2012/webcrypto/wiki/Use_Cases
- 19:31:09 [Karen]
- virginie: channy has updated the use cases http://www.w3.org/2012/webcrypto/wiki/Use_Cases
- 19:31:26 [Karen]
- virginie: channy has updated use cases
- 19:31:32 [Channy]
- Use-cases on wiki were gathered from mailinglist and commnutiy group. It was classified by charter goals. Please feel free to edit by anyone.
- 19:32:13 [hhalpin]
- Any volunteers?
- 19:32:18 [ddahl]
- virginie_galindo: I can help you
- 19:32:33 [Karen]
- virginie: make sure we don't put complicated use cases in the primary features
- 19:32:55 [wseltzer]
- ACTION: Add use-cases from the survey to the wiki
- 19:33:07 [Channy]
- I think it may be rearranged by low-level and high-level.
- 19:33:07 [Karen]
- virginie: use case: validated document
- 19:33:59 [Karen]
- http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-webcrypto/2012Jun/0022.html
- 19:34:43 [Zakim]
- -hhalpin
- 19:34:45 [Karen]
- document sent by ?
- 19:34:51 [JimD]
- q+
- 19:35:14 [Karen]
- p1: tls proxy is a fact
- 19:35:30 [wseltzer]
- PhilipG: Defense in depth, accepting that TLS proxies are a fact of life, and provide security in the face of those.
- 19:35:39 [wseltzer]
- s/p1/PhilipG/
- 19:36:20 [Karen]
- philip: it is possible for a client to authenticate even if there is tls proxy
- 19:36:47 [Karen]
- ryan: I am concerned that entire web security model is built on tls
- 19:37:24 [harry]
- harry has joined #crypto
- 19:37:25 [Karen]
- ryan: don't know any browser can guarantee the security even with the defense in depth
- 19:37:50 [harry]
- Zakim, what's the code?
- 19:37:50 [Zakim]
- the conference code is 27978 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), harry
- 19:38:02 [Karen]
- virginie: philip you can write down the use case
- 19:38:19 [Zakim]
- +??P10
- 19:38:22 [Karen]
- philip: I am not sure it is relevant
- 19:38:24 [harry]
- Zakim, ??P10 is harry
- 19:38:24 [Zakim]
- +harry; got it
- 19:38:41 [Karen]
- philip: I will write it down anyway
- 19:39:00 [Karen]
- virginie: any suggestions on use cases?
- 19:39:05 [harry]
- q?
- 19:39:16 [Karen]
- Jim: a lot of discussions on smart card
- 19:39:35 [Karen]
- jim: we might want to create an abstraction on hardware devices
- 19:39:40 [harry]
- q+
- 19:39:50 [harry]
- q-
- 19:40:00 [Karen]
- jim: we want to make sure the api we create can support hardware devices
- 19:40:03 [harry]
- Zakim, agenda?
- 19:40:03 [Zakim]
- I see 5 items remaining on the agenda:
- 19:40:05 [Zakim]
- 1. Welcome [from hhalpin]
- 19:40:05 [Zakim]
- 2. Survey about API [from hhalpin]
- 19:40:05 [Zakim]
- 3. Use-cases [from hhalpin]
- 19:40:05 [Zakim]
- 4. Technical Discussion [from hhalpin]
- 19:40:05 [Zakim]
- 5. Group Logistics [from hhalpin]
- 19:40:17 [harry]
- Zakim, next agendum
- 19:40:17 [Zakim]
- agendum 1. "Welcome" taken up [from hhalpin]
- 19:40:22 [Karen]
- virginie:topics: draft api
- 19:40:32 [harry]
- topic: draft API
- 19:40:34 [wseltzer]
- zakim, take up agendum 4
- 19:40:34 [Zakim]
- agendum 4. "Technical Discussion" taken up [from hhalpin]
- 19:41:09 [Karen]
- virginie: 14min to discuss technical topics
- 19:41:37 [Karen]
- David: latest update is section 7
- 19:41:53 [virginie_galindo]
- http://www.w3.org/2012/webcrypto/WebCryptoAPI/
- 19:41:54 [Karen]
- david: added link to JWA (json algorithms)
- 19:42:12 [Karen]
- david: we will benefit to use same identifiers as jwa
- 19:42:24 [harry]
- +1 re-using identifers from JOSE WG
- 19:42:24 [Karen]
- david: updated examples in the strawman
- 19:42:32 [virginie_galindo]
- s/14min/40min/
- 19:42:43 [ddahl]
- http://www.w3.org/2012/webcrypto/WebCryptoAPI/#algorithms
- 19:42:50 [rsleevi]
- +1 to the re-use
- 19:43:00 [Karen]
- virginie: thank you for the work
- 19:43:36 [Karen]
- david: try to begin proposal on key identifier
- 19:44:01 [Karen]
- david: we might want to add some meta data on key identifier
- 19:44:38 [Karen]
- virginie: proposal GUID from mitch
- 19:44:46 [Karen]
- virginie: will we reuse?
- 19:44:56 [virginie_galindo]
- http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-webcrypto/2012Jun/0015.html
- 19:44:58 [rsleevi]
- q+
- 19:45:04 [Karen]
- david: that's an ideal way to identity key
- 19:45:23 [wtc]
- q+
- 19:46:07 [Karen]
- ryan: concern: will two users of two different sites have same or different GUID? if the same, it is possible to track user
- 19:46:30 [Karen]
- ryan: I like the string id, which may not have this concern
- 19:47:10 [Karen]
- ryan: example: netflex.p1
- 19:47:12 [ddahl]
- rsleevi: I think the JOSE WG has examples like that - origin + sequence number
- 19:47:39 [Karen]
- p1: agree with ryan
- 19:47:50 [wseltzer]
- s/p1/wtc/
- 19:48:00 [Karen]
- p1: the goal is to unique identify the key so that it can be revoked
- 19:48:06 [MitchZ]
- q+
- 19:48:42 [Karen]
- wtc: hash of a secret key may accomplish the goal of identify the key without reveal the key
- 19:48:49 [harry]
- q+
- 19:49:24 [Karen]
- mitch: privacy concern is the one we share.
- 19:49:46 [Karen]
- mitch: the uuid or hash may reveal too much
- 19:50:54 [MitchZ]
- q-
- 19:51:12 [Karen]
- mitch: we don't need to build all use cases but need to discuss the privacy concern
- 19:51:12 [harry]
- ack harry
- 19:51:35 [ddahl]
- i may be wrong, but the JOSE WG seems to not require any kind of specific id except that it is a string
- 19:52:56 [Karen]
- harry: charter is very clear that we don't want to mandate a particular key identifier scheme
- 19:53:18 [rsleevi]
- The question seems less to do with key identification, and more about key discovery
- 19:53:25 [Karen]
- virginie: we need to name the key in order to handle it
- 19:53:28 [rsleevi]
- Key identification serves as a means of key discovery, but is not the only one
- 19:53:31 [harry]
- i.e also the discovery of the properties of the key
- 19:53:47 [harry]
- which is different than sticking all the properties in its idenfication scheme
- 19:54:12 [Karen]
- virginie: a need for the editors to come out a proposal
- 19:54:44 [Karen]
- virginie: on key identifier.
- 19:55:00 [Karen]
- david: Ryan and others have given feedback
- 19:55:21 [Karen]
- david: enumeration of propertities
- 19:55:42 [ddahl]
- virginie_galindo: +1
- 19:55:44 [rsleevi]
- +1
- 19:55:46 [Karen]
- virginie: it is important and part of the design api
- 19:56:06 [Karen]
- david: will share tomorrow or next day
- 19:56:42 [Karen]
- virginie: next topic: discovery mechanism
- 19:57:23 [Karen]
- virginie: netflex proposal? how to discovery key?
- 19:57:25 [rsleevi]
- q+
- 19:57:33 [virginie_galindo]
- http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-webcrypto/2012Jun/0030.html
- 19:57:34 [Karen]
- david: no conclusion yet
- 19:57:45 [Karen]
- ryan: do conclusion yet
- 19:58:14 [Karen]
- ryan: need to consider mitch example where a particular key can only be used for a particular purpose case, mode etc
- 19:58:49 [Karen]
- ryan: also need to consider more general use case that the key can be used in more cases
- 19:58:53 [MitchZ]
- Just to throw one more oddball use case out there: we have seen one case of a single keytext block inside of hardware used as any of: DES, 3DES, 2DES (!), and AES-128 algorithms
- 19:58:57 [MitchZ]
- I believe this is unusual, though
- 19:59:19 [Karen]
- ryan: need to design api that can balance these cases
- 19:59:22 [MitchZ]
- and could be handled by simply mapping the single keytext block to several different keys
- 19:59:30 [ddahl]
- also, I have been re-reading all of the latest JOSE JWK specs to help inform this discussion
- 19:59:40 [MitchZ]
- but, cipher mode, padding, etc. may really be limited on a key-by-key basis
- 19:59:52 [Karen]
- virginie: we need to build and write down the api
- 20:00:08 [Karen]
- virginie: expect other participants to help
- 20:00:23 [Karen]
- virginie: next topic: smart card discussion - lot of exchanges
- 20:00:44 [Karen]
- virginie: our charter - we should not put anything specific to smart card
- 20:00:57 [Karen]
- virginie: many use cases that need smart card
- 20:01:08 [Karen]
- virginie: we need to find some ways to handle this
- 20:01:17 [harry]
- we don't want to bake in device-specific API features, but maybe we can do those use-cases with right level of abstraction.
- 20:01:26 [rsleevi]
- q+
- 20:01:29 [JimD]
- use cases should not EXCLUDE smart cards explicitly; however, I agree that we may need to create an abstraction for the use of smart cards or other hardware-based devices
- 20:01:30 [Karen]
- virginie: may be we can have a round table to discuss this
- 20:01:30 [wtc]
- q+
- 20:01:35 [sdurbha]
- q+
- 20:02:07 [Karen]
- ryan: I have no objection to smart card, but have concern on security model
- 20:02:10 [vgb]
- q+
- 20:02:29 [Karen]
- ryan: don't believe any website can benefit from know smart card
- 20:02:49 [Karen]
- ryan: a client having keys stored in smart card is fine
- 20:02:57 [PhilipG]
- q+
- 20:03:23 [Karen]
- ryan: we should not have anything specific to smart card
- 20:03:32 [harry]
- +1 keys stored in smart card
- 20:03:40 [harry]
- i.e. think of it as another container
- 20:04:06 [Karen]
- Chan: I believe all use cases can be met by windows.cypto
- 20:04:20 [rsleevi]
- Karen: s/Chan/wtc/
- 20:04:48 [JimD]
- a browser-specific solution doesn't seem to be a good answer
- 20:06:09 [Karen]
- sdurbha: there are javascript api's that support crypto, but it is not possible to securely transfer keys.
- 20:06:10 [rsleevi]
- sdurbha: As an alternative for/enhancement of <keygen>, correct?
- 20:06:32 [Karen]
- sdurbha: smart card support for keys is very appealing
- 20:06:45 [sdurbha]
- rsleevi, correct
- 20:06:57 [Karen]
- virginie: provisioning of the key is out of the scope
- 20:07:25 [Karen]
- vgb: use case of key management
- 20:07:26 [Channy]
- @JimD, a browser can use standard as like Firefox's impl. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_Information_Processing_Standard
- 20:08:30 [Karen]
- vgb: where does key come from: local storage - not relevant to SC; key exchange; you have a key that is sent by a out of band way
- 20:08:55 [Karen]
- vgb: the service knows it is in a smart card because it gives to the card.
- 20:09:06 [JimD]
- well said, vgb
- 20:09:20 [PhilipG]
- +1
- 20:09:20 [JimD]
- +1
- 20:09:23 [ddahl]
- +1
- 20:09:27 [sdurbha]
- +1
- 20:09:28 [harry]
- +1
- 20:09:28 [rsleevi]
- vgb: +1. I think the matter of smart cards is a matter of key discovery, largely
- 20:09:31 [Karen]
- vgb: we don't need smart card support, but need to know it comes from. e.g. smart card
- 20:09:34 [virginie_galindo]
- +1
- 20:09:34 [rsleevi]
- vgb: -1 to key provisioning within smart cards :)
- 20:10:07 [MitchZ]
- +1, but would aim for a target where the "smart card keys" are used in a way consistent with the "runtime created keys" or "preprovisioned keys"
- 20:10:11 [wtc]
- q+
- 20:10:27 [MitchZ]
- in other words, not necessarily "outside the sandbox" to get to the last part of your comment.
- 20:10:38 [Karen]
- vgb: at the browser level - discover the key
- 20:11:22 [vgb]
- MitchZ, I agree that the API should be consistent between the various types of keys
- 20:11:27 [Karen]
- philip: provided that smart card portability of the key is a part of the use case
- 20:11:52 [virginie_galindo]
- q+
- 20:11:52 [vgb]
- my point was that we should allow the possibility of accessing keys that were not created/initally received within the browser
- 20:12:17 [Karen]
- philip: the easy of use is an important factor
- 20:12:31 [harry]
- hmmm...should we write a proposal/resolution here?
- 20:12:47 [rsleevi]
- harry: wtc and I can take up an ACTION item to propose something
- 20:12:57 [vgb]
- rsleevi - we're in violent agreement :)
- 20:13:04 [sdurbha]
- :)
- 20:13:07 [Karen]
- sorry, I didn't catch that
- 20:13:13 [vgb]
- I have a half-composed email draft on this, will send out ot email list today
- 20:13:23 [JimD]
- Thanks, vgb
- 20:14:19 [harry]
- VGB or Rsleevi, can you write *something* in IRC that captures in 1-3 sentences the precise proposal re the idea of accessing keys?
- 20:14:56 [Karen]
- Virginie: vgb and ryan will propose something
- 20:14:58 [rsleevi]
- harry: The browser should be agnostic as to the 'source' of the key - whether within the browser or outside
- 20:14:59 [harry]
- ACTION: VGB and RSleevi to write a proposal and send to mailing list for approval next meeting
- 20:15:23 [vgb]
- Basic proposal on key access: there are 3 families of use cases
- 20:15:40 [Karen]
- virginie: next topic: group life
- 20:15:47 [vgb]
- 1. Ephemeral / local-only use, as for local encrypted storage
- 20:15:51 [wseltzer]
- zakim, take up agendum 5
- 20:15:51 [Zakim]
- agendum 5. "Group Logistics" taken up [from hhalpin]
- 20:15:59 [vgb]
- 2. Keys created through key exchange
- 20:16:07 [Karen]
- virginie: f2f meeting - 24-25th of july
- 20:16:15 [vgb]
- 3. Keys that are distributed to parties and provisioned offline
- 20:16:19 [harry]
- maybe do a quick go through in IRC to see who can come to those dates?
- 20:16:27 [Karen]
- virginie: who will be ready to attend the meeting?
- 20:16:28 [wseltzer]
- PROPOSAL: F2F July 24-25.
- 20:16:30 [ddahl]
- +1
- 20:16:33 [Karen]
- +1
- 20:16:35 [virginie_galindo]
- +1
- 20:16:37 [rsleevi]
- -1
- 20:16:40 [wtc]
- +1
- 20:16:41 [JimD]
- -1 on other travel that week
- 20:16:45 [harry]
- +1 (assuming no conflict with IETF)
- 20:16:51 [emily]
- -1 (unlikely to be able to attend any f2f)
- 20:17:01 [vgb]
- The proposal is that while the API model should treat all these keys consistently as much as possible, it should also provide a discovery model for the 3rd class, since that is a special need for that class
- 20:17:10 [Karen]
- +1 for Asad I guess
- 20:17:16 [wseltzer]
- +1
- 20:17:17 [MitchZ]
- +1
- 20:17:35 [MitchZ]
- +1 for Mark Watson
- 20:17:37 [vgb]
- +1
- 20:17:48 [Channy]
- -1 (no sponsorship for travel :)
- 20:18:05 [ddahl]
- rsleevi: will you be available for phone calls those days?
- 20:18:33 [rsleevi]
- ddahl: I wouldn't trust my phone where I'm going to be (Black Hat Briefings) ;-)
- 20:18:41 [Karen]
- virginie: location?
- 20:18:45 [ddahl]
- rsleevi: ah, thanks
- 20:19:16 [Karen]
- virginie: any problem moving to silicon valley?
- 20:20:18 [Karen]
- David: we can accomodate at mountain view office
- 20:20:35 [harry]
- RESOLVED: Meeting 24-25th in Vancouver ala poll
- 20:20:41 [Karen]
- virginie: thank you all.
- 20:20:57 [harry]
- Meeting Adjourned
- 20:21:06 [wseltzer]
- Meeting: WebCrypto Working Group
- 20:21:07 [harry]
- RRSAgent, generate minutes
- 20:21:07 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/06/11-crypto-minutes.html harry
- 20:21:14 [Zakim]
- -vgb
- 20:21:14 [Karen]
- you are welcome. Sorry for missing some points
- 20:21:15 [Zakim]
- -pgladstone
- 20:21:17 [Zakim]
- -emily
- 20:21:18 [Zakim]
- -sdurbha
- 20:21:18 [Zakim]
- -??P14
- 20:21:19 [Zakim]
- -Netflix
- 20:21:19 [Zakim]
- -ddahl
- 20:21:20 [Zakim]
- -Google
- 20:21:21 [wseltzer]
- zakim, list participants
- 20:21:21 [Zakim]
- As of this point the attendees have been +33.6.13.23.aaaa, +1.707.799.aabb, virginie_galindo, Wendy, +1.773.939.aacc, Jim_Davenport, vgb, +1.650.214.aadd, rsleevi, wtc, ddahl,
- 20:21:24 [Zakim]
- ... +1.408.540.aaee, +1.512.257.aaff, Mike_Jones, emily, hhalpin, Karen, MitchZ, +1.978.936.aagg, sdurbha, pgladstone, markw, harry
- 20:21:27 [Zakim]
- -Jim_Davenport
- 20:21:28 [Zakim]
- -Wendy
- 20:21:33 [Zakim]
- -virginie_galindo
- 20:21:37 [hooley]
- hooley has left #crypto
- 20:21:53 [harry]
- Karen, if you can send this link the mailing list for review: https://www.w3.org/2012/06/11-crypto-minutes.html
- 20:21:58 [Zakim]
- -harry
- 20:22:04 [Zakim]
- -Karen
- 20:22:05 [Zakim]
- SEC_WebCryp()3:00PM has ended
- 20:22:05 [Zakim]
- Attendees were +33.6.13.23.aaaa, +1.707.799.aabb, virginie_galindo, Wendy, +1.773.939.aacc, Jim_Davenport, vgb, +1.650.214.aadd, rsleevi, wtc, ddahl, +1.408.540.aaee,
- 20:22:05 [Zakim]
- ... +1.512.257.aaff, Mike_Jones, emily, hhalpin, Karen, MitchZ, +1.978.936.aagg, sdurbha, pgladstone, markw, harry
- 20:22:52 [wseltzer]
- present+ virginie_galindo, Wendy, Jim_Davenport, vgb, rsleevi, wtc, ddahl, Mike_Jones, emily,
- 20:23:12 [wseltzer]
- present+ hhalpin, Karen, MitchZ, sdurbha, pgladstone, markw,
- 20:23:20 [wseltzer]
- rrsagent, make minutes
- 20:23:20 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/06/11-crypto-minutes.html wseltzer
- 20:23:39 [PhilipG]
- PhilipG has left #crypto
- 20:24:07 [wseltzer]
- RRSAgent, make log public
- 20:24:11 [wseltzer]
- rrsagent, bye
- 20:24:11 [RRSAgent]
- I see 2 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2012/06/11-crypto-actions.rdf :
- 20:24:11 [RRSAgent]
- ACTION: Add use-cases from the survey to the wiki [1]
- 20:24:11 [RRSAgent]
- recorded in http://www.w3.org/2012/06/11-crypto-irc#T19-32-55
- 20:24:11 [RRSAgent]
- ACTION: VGB and RSleevi to write a proposal and send to mailing list for approval next meeting [2]
- 20:24:11 [RRSAgent]
- recorded in http://www.w3.org/2012/06/11-crypto-irc#T20-14-59