17:00:02 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #indie-ui
17:00:02 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2012/06/06-indie-ui-irc
17:00:06 <MichaelC> rrsagent, make log world
17:00:06 <Zakim> WAI_Indie()1:00PM has now started
17:00:10 <MichaelC> meeting: Indie UI
17:00:13 <MichaelC> chair: Janina_Sajka
17:00:14 <Zakim> + +44.114.288.aaaa
17:00:22 <MichaelC> scribe: MichaelC
17:00:47 <Zakim> - +44.114.288.aaaa
17:00:50 <Zakim> + +44.114.288.aaaa
17:00:52 <MichaelC> zakim, aaaa is Andy_Heath
17:00:52 <Zakim> +Cooper
17:01:05 <janina> janina has joined #indie-ui
17:01:14 <Zakim> +Andy_Heath; got it
17:01:19 <Zakim> +??P2
17:01:22 <MichaelC> zakim, ??P2 is Janina_Sajka
17:01:22 <Zakim> +Janina_Sajka; got it
17:01:48 <clown> clown has joined #indie-ui
17:01:49 <ArtB> zakim, passcode?
17:01:49 <Zakim> the conference code is 46343 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), ArtB
17:02:32 <Zakim> +[GVoice]
17:02:37 <Zakim> + +358.718.00aabb
17:02:48 <clown> Zakim:  GVoice is Joseph_Scheuhammer
17:02:51 <ArtB> zakim, aabb is Art_Barstow
17:02:51 <Zakim> +Art_Barstow; got it
17:03:02 <clown> Zakim,  GVoice is Joseph_Scheuhammer
17:03:02 <Zakim> +Joseph_Scheuhammer; got it
17:03:10 <clown> zakim, I am Joseph_Scheuhammer
17:03:10 <Zakim> ok, clown, I now associate you with Joseph_Scheuhammer
17:03:33 <jcraig> jcraig has joined #indie-ui
17:03:33 <janina> Meeting: Indie UI Task Force telecon
17:03:33 <janina> Chair: Janina_Sajka
17:03:33 <janina> agenda+ Welcome & Introductions
17:03:33 <janina> agenda+ TF Overview; Relationship to Web Events and to WAI Indie UI WG
17:03:33 <janina> agenda+ Home page for TF
17:03:36 <Zakim> +Doug_Schepers
17:03:36 <janina> agenda+ Variants of spelling of "Indie UI"
17:03:38 <janina> agenda+ Teleconference time
17:03:41 <janina> agenda+ Source code repository
17:03:43 <janina> agenda+ Task Force Work Statement http://www.w3.org/WAI/IndieUI/IUITF
17:03:46 <janina> agenda+ Recruiting
17:03:48 <janina> agenda+ Need to identify test editor
17:03:51 <janina> agenda+ Use cases
17:03:53 <janina> agenda+ Initial Events Abstraction draft -- James Craig
17:03:56 <janina> agenda+ Next Teleconference; Scribe
17:03:58 <janina> agenda+ Be Done
17:04:20 <Zakim> +[Apple]
17:04:53 <jcraig> Zakim, Apple has jcraig 
17:04:54 <Zakim> +jcraig; got it
17:05:10 <MichaelC> zakim, next item
17:05:10 <Zakim> agendum 1. "Welcome & Introductions" taken up [from janina]
17:05:13 <Zakim> +Rich
17:05:49 <ArtB> zakim, who's here?
17:05:49 <Zakim> On the phone I see Andy_Heath, Cooper, Janina_Sajka, Joseph_Scheuhammer, Art_Barstow, Doug_Schepers, [Apple], Rich
17:05:51 <Zakim> [Apple] has jcraig
17:05:51 <Zakim> On IRC I see jcraig, clown, janina, RRSAgent, Zakim, ArtB, MichaelC, shepazu
17:06:07 <MichaelC> q+ Andy_Heath, Cooper, Janina_Sajka, Joseph_Scheuhammer, Art_Barstow, Doug_Schepers, [Apple], Rich
17:06:17 <MichaelC> ack janina
17:06:33 <MichaelC> js: Janina Sajka, chair of Indie UI and Protocols and Formats
17:06:40 <MichaelC> and will facilitate this task force initially
17:06:50 <MichaelC> have worked in Linux foundation, DAISY / EPub
17:06:59 <janina>  zakim, who's here?
17:06:59 <Zakim> On the phone I see Andy_Heath, Cooper, Janina_Sajka, Joseph_Scheuhammer, Art_Barstow, Doug_Schepers, [Apple], Rich
17:07:01 <Zakim> [Apple] has jcraig
17:07:01 <Zakim> On IRC I see jcraig, clown, janina, RRSAgent, Zakim, ArtB, MichaelC, shepazu
17:07:07 <richardschwerdtfe> richardschwerdtfe has joined #indie-ui
17:07:23 <richardschwerdtfe> richardschwerdtfe has left #indie-ui
17:07:35 <MichaelC> ack cooper
17:07:38 <richardschwerdtfe> richardschwerdtfe has joined #indie-ui
17:07:44 <MichaelC> mc: Michael Cooper, staff contact to Indie UI, PF, WCAG
17:07:49 <MichaelC> ack doug
17:07:57 <richardschwerdtfe> richardschwerdtfe has left #indie-ui
17:08:02 <MichaelC> ds: Doug Schepers, staff contact to Web Events
17:08:08 <richardschwerdtfe> richardschwerdtfe has joined #indie-ui
17:08:09 <MichaelC> and a bunch of others scribe missed
17:08:15 <MichaelC> ack andy
17:08:47 <MichaelC> ah: Andy Heath, working in several accessibility standards organizations
17:08:52 <MichaelC> <missed details>
17:08:54 <MichaelC> ack jos
17:09:05 <jcraig> q+
17:09:11 <jcraig> q-
17:09:13 <MichaelC> js: Joseph Scheuhammer, IDRC in Toronto
17:09:19 <jcraig> q+
17:09:24 <jcraig> q- Ap
17:09:31 <jcraig> q- [Ap
17:09:42 <MichaelC> have worked in a11y a long time, particularly Gnome
17:09:45 <MichaelC> ack art
17:10:05 <MichaelC> ab: Art Barstow, Nokia, co-chair Web Events and Web Applications
17:10:45 <MichaelC> worked in W3C standards most of this century
17:10:50 <MichaelC> ack jc
17:10:58 <MichaelC> jc: James Craig, Apple
17:11:13 <MichaelC> also contributed to W3C on WCAG 2 and CSS 2
17:11:18 <MichaelC> and recently in PFWG on ARIA
17:11:35 <MichaelC> with a co-worker, wrote a starting proposal for deliverables of this group
17:11:36 <MichaelC> ack r
17:11:52 <MichaelC> rs: Rich Schwerdtfeger, CTO for IBM accessibility
17:12:03 <MichaelC> have worked in a11y nearly 20 years
17:12:12 <MichaelC> work in PFWG, HTML
17:12:15 <andy> andy has joined #indie-ui
17:12:21 <MichaelC> IMS Global Learning Consortium
17:12:32 <MichaelC> interested in device independent access to mobile
17:12:47 <MichaelC> and IBM products should be able to move across devices without concern about platform nuances
17:13:20 <MichaelC> zakim, next item
17:13:20 <Zakim> agendum 2. "TF Overview; Relationship to Web Events and to WAI Indie UI WG" taken up [from janina]
17:13:40 <MichaelC> js: This is the Independent User Interface Task Force
17:13:56 <MichaelC> there are two paths to participate, because two W3C groups collaborate on this deliverable
17:14:14 <MichaelC> Indie UI WG, set up as a spin-out from PFWG
17:14:50 <MichaelC> and Web Events WG
17:15:21 <MichaelC> expect the Indie UI home page to be pretty much as it is http://www.w3.org/WAI/IndieUI/
17:15:29 <MichaelC> most of the work will actually happen in this task force
17:15:42 <MichaelC> <currently represented by http://www.w3.org/WAI/IndieUI/IUITF>
17:16:02 <MichaelC> we have the starter draft James submitted
17:16:08 <jcraig> zakim, who is noisy?
17:16:10 <MichaelC> we can adopt, modify, or restart
17:16:19 <Zakim> jcraig, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: Rich (55%)
17:16:22 <MichaelC> ultimately will have a deliverable
17:16:38 <MichaelC> that will be published by the sponsoring WG
17:16:42 <MichaelC> s/WG/WGs/
17:17:00 <MichaelC> <summarizes deliverables>
17:17:27 <MichaelC> <see http://www.w3.org/WAI/IndieUI/IUITF#scope for details>
17:17:49 <MichaelC> an event layer
17:18:00 <MichaelC> and a way to communicate user preferences and configuration to Web App
17:18:28 <MichaelC> need to address privacy and security concerns
17:19:07 <MichaelC> s|http://www.w3.org/WAI/IndieUI/IUITF#scope|http://www.w3.org/WAI/IndieUI/#scope|
17:19:30 <MichaelC> ds: currently these deliverables are framed as accessibility oriented
17:19:41 <MichaelC> suggest framing instead as jointly accessibility and web appss
17:19:45 <MichaelC> s/appss/apps/
17:19:57 <MichaelC> our primary concern is universal applicabiltiy
17:20:01 <clown> +1
17:20:10 <MichaelC> useful to people making any kind of content that would work on various devices
17:20:17 <MichaelC> js: agreed, we'll look at language
17:21:01 <MichaelC> re recruiting, we do have a lot of accessibility people right now, want to be sure we get representatives from other types of organizations as well
17:21:16 <shepazu> +1
17:21:23 <MichaelC> rs: in addition to browser developers, we should recruit app developers
17:21:33 <shepazu> +1
17:21:40 <MichaelC> to understand use cases etc.
17:22:05 <MichaelC> jc: would also like to reach out to assistive technology developers
17:23:07 <MichaelC> js: let's come back to these suggestions under recruiting topic
17:23:22 <MichaelC> js: on group structure
17:23:32 <MichaelC> we do have some standard infrastructure used by W3C
17:23:40 <MichaelC> have two staff contacts, one from each sponsoring WG
17:24:00 <MichaelC> do plan to made task force decisions in teleconferences
17:24:26 <MichaelC> though will offer a call for objections via mailing list and / or web-based survey as well
17:24:57 <MichaelC> my experience is that telecon discussions help to move some discussions along more expeditiously
17:25:03 <shepazu> q+
17:25:07 <MichaelC> than email and other asynchronous channels
17:25:19 <MichaelC> but don't want to pin us into specific tools or approaches
17:25:26 <MichaelC> re Face to Face meetings
17:25:41 <MichaelC> this group might be ready for one by TPAC in Oct / Nov 2012
17:25:53 <MichaelC> so have reserved a slot in that meeting week
17:26:12 <MichaelC> for editing, plan to use commit then review style
17:26:19 <MichaelC> which is quicker than review than commit
17:26:31 <MichaelC> but reserve right to modify the style if we see the need
17:26:37 <MichaelC> note it does work well in some WGs
17:27:12 <MichaelC> The group operates in public
17:27:24 <MichaelC> the mailing list is self-subscribe so non-members can join discussion
17:27:45 <MichaelC> if problems arise from that, we'll address them
17:28:04 <MichaelC> ack s
17:28:54 <MichaelC> ds: also plan to have a planning list for chairs and staff contacts
17:29:16 <MichaelC> can use that list if you need to raise sensitive issues that shouldn't be shared with group or archived publicly
17:29:48 <MichaelC> will announce that list when it's set up
17:30:16 <MichaelC> also, I suggest we give a week for calls for objection
17:30:55 <MichaelC> easier for some people to work with than 48 hours, and doesn't impact logistics much
17:31:04 <MichaelC> js: sounds good
17:31:25 <ArtB> AB: http://www.w3.org/2010/webevents/wiki/WorkMode
17:31:33 <shepazu> agenda?
17:31:36 <MichaelC> ab: work mode sounds good, and similar to Web Events 
17:31:58 <MichaelC> zakim, next item
17:32:28 <shepazu> q-
17:32:46 <Zakim> agendum 3. "Home page for TF" taken up [from janina]
17:33:00 <MichaelC> -> http://www.w3.org/WAI/IndieUI/IUITF IUI TF work statement
17:33:36 <shepazu> q+
17:33:53 <MichaelC> mc: question of whether we should have a home page for the TF besides the work statement
17:34:02 <MichaelC> and want to get review of the proposed draft work statement
17:34:13 <MichaelC> ultimately want the sponsoring WGs to approve it
17:34:30 <MichaelC> ds: let's discuss this on email
17:34:39 <MichaelC> so people have a chance to arrive
17:34:55 <MichaelC> s/arrive/review/
17:35:07 <MichaelC> and copy Web Events
17:35:46 <MichaelC> need to consider whether TF resolutions are binding on sponsoring groups, or whether resolutions need to be co-ratified
17:36:08 <MichaelC> I propose the TF resolutions be presumed approved by the sponsoring groups
17:36:40 <MichaelC> after the call for objection expires
17:36:49 <MichaelC> mc: does this mean we have to copy stuff to Web events?
17:37:03 <MichaelC> ab: no, I'll make sure Web events people who care are directly involved
17:38:14 <MichaelC> mc: well, Indie UI WG and TF overlap, so I have no concerns from that angle
17:38:24 <MichaelC> but if DS and AB ok on Web Events side, I can be ok
17:38:37 <MichaelC> but wonder if at least for TR publications, we should require ratification
17:38:57 <MichaelC> ds: will look into Process formalities
17:40:15 <MichaelC> action: shepazu to look at whether Process allows a TF to make resolutions binding on a WG, including TF publications
17:40:31 <MichaelC> mc: at least DS and AB should be present when such a resolution recorded
17:40:38 <MichaelC> ds: at least one Web Events person should be
17:40:46 <MichaelC> zakim, next item
17:40:46 <Zakim> I see a speaker queue remaining and respectfully decline to close this agendum, MichaelC
17:40:49 <MichaelC> q?
17:40:52 <MichaelC> ack s
17:40:54 <MichaelC> q?
17:40:56 <MichaelC> zakim, next item
17:40:56 <Zakim> agendum 4. "Variants of spelling of "Indie UI"" taken up [from janina]
17:41:06 <MichaelC> js: there are three ways Indie UI is spelled
17:41:08 <MichaelC> Indie UI
17:41:10 <MichaelC> IndieUI
17:41:12 <MichaelC> indie-ui
17:41:20 <MichaelC> will this be confusing?
17:41:39 <shepazu> NDUI (Neutral-Device User Interface) :)
17:42:09 <MichaelC> in the IndieUI case, some AT will pronounce weird
17:42:12 <MichaelC> does that matter?
17:42:21 <MichaelC> I'm most worried about the IRC channel
17:43:13 <MichaelC> jc: I prefer indie-ui for lower-case situations, and IndieUI for other situations
17:43:40 <MichaelC> didn't find that Indie UI variant really needed as a distinguisher from IndieUI
17:44:44 <MichaelC> mc: charter uses Indie UI, don't know if that can be changed, though other instances could be
17:44:48 <MichaelC> ds: think it can be
17:45:45 <jcraig> zakim, who is noisy?
17:45:53 <clown> +1
17:45:55 <Zakim> jcraig, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: Janina_Sajka (35%), Rich (33%), Andy_Heath (5%)
17:46:05 <MichaelC> RESOLUTION: use "indie-ui" for lower-case-only situations, and "IndieUI" for other situations, and drop "Indie UI"
17:46:32 <MichaelC> action: cooper to change instances of Indie UI to IndieUI
17:46:39 <MichaelC> zakim, next item
17:46:39 <Zakim> agendum 5. "Teleconference time" taken up [from janina]
17:46:45 <MichaelC> js: this time was a first proposal
17:47:17 <MichaelC> should there be another time?
17:47:34 <MichaelC> <none suggested>
17:47:48 <MichaelC> mc: let's make sure to poll list, since the people in this call are the people who could attend this time
17:48:00 <MichaelC> js: will do that
17:48:10 <MichaelC> also, let's set up the second call even before the recurring time set up
17:48:16 <Zakim> + +1.703.637.aacc
17:48:17 <MichaelC> propose next Wednesday at the same time
17:48:31 <MichaelC> jc: regrets for next week
17:48:57 <MichaelC> js: would want JC present at kick-off
17:50:23 <MichaelC> zakim, aacc is Sam_Joehl
17:50:23 <Zakim> +Sam_Joehl; got it
17:50:47 <MichaelC> <Sam Joehl joins>
17:50:57 <MichaelC> sj: Sam Joehl, from SSB Bart group
17:53:50 <MichaelC> js: should we have 60-minute or 90-minute calls?
17:54:38 <MichaelC> think we have enough leftover agenda for a call next week anyways
17:56:04 <MichaelC> js: Rich, IMS has stuff for us too?
17:56:10 <clown> http://www.imsglobal.org
17:56:25 <MichaelC> rs: yes, they have stuff targeted to leaner customization
17:56:33 <MichaelC> s/leaner/learner/
17:56:48 <MichaelC> shortly publish 3.0 version
17:56:50 <clown> http://www.imsglobal.org/accessibility/index.html
17:57:10 <MichaelC> also in discussion to merge with APIP
17:58:31 <MichaelC> action: janina to investigate possibility of Indie UI taking up materials from IMS Access For All 3.0 and IMS APIP 1.0
17:58:54 <clown> http://www.imsglobal.org/apip/index.html
18:02:05 <MichaelC> jc: want to be sure meetings aren't so frequent or long that key players avoid coming to them
18:02:41 <MichaelC> so suggest once every other week for 60 minutes
18:03:37 <MichaelC> mc: next week is exceptional because we're starting up
18:03:49 <MichaelC> ds: so we meet this week, next week, the following, then go to every other week
18:03:56 <MichaelC> js: how long?
18:04:03 <MichaelC> <general request is 60 minute calls>
18:04:07 <MichaelC> Next meeting: Wednesday 13 July at 17:00 UTC for 60 minutes
18:05:03 <MichaelC> ds: note we need to be sure people on the calls are formal participants in the group
18:05:27 <MichaelC> mc: for startup think we should be flexible but yes, we'll need to enforce that when the work gets going
18:05:47 <MichaelC> ds: if you're not already a member, please contact Michael or Doug
18:06:29 <Zakim> -Art_Barstow
18:07:28 <Zakim> -Doug_Schepers
18:07:30 <Zakim> -Rich
18:07:30 <Zakim> -[Apple]
18:07:31 <Zakim> -Andy_Heath
18:07:33 <Zakim> -Janina_Sajka
18:07:36 <Zakim> -Cooper
18:07:40 <Zakim> -Joseph_Scheuhammer
18:07:41 <Zakim> -Sam_Joehl
18:07:41 <Zakim> WAI_Indie()1:00PM has ended
18:07:41 <Zakim> Attendees were +44.114.288.aaaa, Cooper, Andy_Heath, Janina_Sajka, +358.718.00aabb, Art_Barstow, Joseph_Scheuhammer, Doug_Schepers, jcraig, Rich, +1.703.637.aacc, Sam_Joehl
18:09:03 <MichaelC> rrsagent, make minutes
18:09:03 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/06/06-indie-ui-minutes.html MichaelC
18:09:55 <MichaelC> present- +44.114.288.aaaa
18:10:02 <MichaelC> present- +358.718.00aabb
18:10:09 <MichaelC> present- +1.703.637.aacc
18:10:20 <MichaelC> scribeOptions: -final
18:10:24 <MichaelC> rrsagent, make minutes
18:10:24 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/06/06-indie-ui-minutes.html MichaelC
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