IRC log of indie-ui on 2012-06-06

Timestamps are in UTC.

17:00:02 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #indie-ui
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logging to
17:00:06 [MichaelC]
rrsagent, make log world
17:00:06 [Zakim]
WAI_Indie()1:00PM has now started
17:00:10 [MichaelC]
meeting: Indie UI
17:00:13 [MichaelC]
chair: Janina_Sajka
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+ +44.114.288.aaaa
17:00:22 [MichaelC]
scribe: MichaelC
17:00:47 [Zakim]
- +44.114.288.aaaa
17:00:50 [Zakim]
+ +44.114.288.aaaa
17:00:52 [MichaelC]
zakim, aaaa is Andy_Heath
17:00:52 [Zakim]
17:01:05 [janina]
janina has joined #indie-ui
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+Andy_Heath; got it
17:01:19 [Zakim]
17:01:22 [MichaelC]
zakim, ??P2 is Janina_Sajka
17:01:22 [Zakim]
+Janina_Sajka; got it
17:01:48 [clown]
clown has joined #indie-ui
17:01:49 [ArtB]
zakim, passcode?
17:01:49 [Zakim]
the conference code is 46343 (tel:+1.617.761.6200, ArtB
17:02:32 [Zakim]
17:02:37 [Zakim]
+ +358.718.00aabb
17:02:48 [clown]
Zakim: GVoice is Joseph_Scheuhammer
17:02:51 [ArtB]
zakim, aabb is Art_Barstow
17:02:51 [Zakim]
+Art_Barstow; got it
17:03:02 [clown]
Zakim, GVoice is Joseph_Scheuhammer
17:03:02 [Zakim]
+Joseph_Scheuhammer; got it
17:03:10 [clown]
zakim, I am Joseph_Scheuhammer
17:03:10 [Zakim]
ok, clown, I now associate you with Joseph_Scheuhammer
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17:03:33 [janina]
Meeting: Indie UI Task Force telecon
17:03:33 [janina]
Chair: Janina_Sajka
17:03:33 [janina]
agenda+ Welcome & Introductions
17:03:33 [janina]
agenda+ TF Overview; Relationship to Web Events and to WAI Indie UI WG
17:03:33 [janina]
agenda+ Home page for TF
17:03:36 [Zakim]
17:03:36 [janina]
agenda+ Variants of spelling of "Indie UI"
17:03:38 [janina]
agenda+ Teleconference time
17:03:41 [janina]
agenda+ Source code repository
17:03:43 [janina]
agenda+ Task Force Work Statement
17:03:46 [janina]
agenda+ Recruiting
17:03:48 [janina]
agenda+ Need to identify test editor
17:03:51 [janina]
agenda+ Use cases
17:03:53 [janina]
agenda+ Initial Events Abstraction draft -- James Craig
17:03:56 [janina]
agenda+ Next Teleconference; Scribe
17:03:58 [janina]
agenda+ Be Done
17:04:20 [Zakim]
17:04:53 [jcraig]
Zakim, Apple has jcraig
17:04:54 [Zakim]
+jcraig; got it
17:05:10 [MichaelC]
zakim, next item
17:05:10 [Zakim]
agendum 1. "Welcome & Introductions" taken up [from janina]
17:05:13 [Zakim]
17:05:49 [ArtB]
zakim, who's here?
17:05:49 [Zakim]
On the phone I see Andy_Heath, Cooper, Janina_Sajka, Joseph_Scheuhammer, Art_Barstow, Doug_Schepers, [Apple], Rich
17:05:51 [Zakim]
[Apple] has jcraig
17:05:51 [Zakim]
On IRC I see jcraig, clown, janina, RRSAgent, Zakim, ArtB, MichaelC, shepazu
17:06:07 [MichaelC]
q+ Andy_Heath, Cooper, Janina_Sajka, Joseph_Scheuhammer, Art_Barstow, Doug_Schepers, [Apple], Rich
17:06:17 [MichaelC]
ack janina
17:06:33 [MichaelC]
js: Janina Sajka, chair of Indie UI and Protocols and Formats
17:06:40 [MichaelC]
and will facilitate this task force initially
17:06:50 [MichaelC]
have worked in Linux foundation, DAISY / EPub
17:06:59 [janina]
zakim, who's here?
17:06:59 [Zakim]
On the phone I see Andy_Heath, Cooper, Janina_Sajka, Joseph_Scheuhammer, Art_Barstow, Doug_Schepers, [Apple], Rich
17:07:01 [Zakim]
[Apple] has jcraig
17:07:01 [Zakim]
On IRC I see jcraig, clown, janina, RRSAgent, Zakim, ArtB, MichaelC, shepazu
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richardschwerdtfe has left #indie-ui
17:07:35 [MichaelC]
ack cooper
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richardschwerdtfe has joined #indie-ui
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mc: Michael Cooper, staff contact to Indie UI, PF, WCAG
17:07:49 [MichaelC]
ack doug
17:07:57 [richardschwerdtfe]
richardschwerdtfe has left #indie-ui
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ds: Doug Schepers, staff contact to Web Events
17:08:08 [richardschwerdtfe]
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17:08:09 [MichaelC]
and a bunch of others scribe missed
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ack andy
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ah: Andy Heath, working in several accessibility standards organizations
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<missed details>
17:08:54 [MichaelC]
ack jos
17:09:05 [jcraig]
17:09:11 [jcraig]
17:09:13 [MichaelC]
js: Joseph Scheuhammer, IDRC in Toronto
17:09:19 [jcraig]
17:09:24 [jcraig]
q- Ap
17:09:31 [jcraig]
q- [Ap
17:09:42 [MichaelC]
have worked in a11y a long time, particularly Gnome
17:09:45 [MichaelC]
ack art
17:10:05 [MichaelC]
ab: Art Barstow, Nokia, co-chair Web Events and Web Applications
17:10:45 [MichaelC]
worked in W3C standards most of this century
17:10:50 [MichaelC]
ack jc
17:10:58 [MichaelC]
jc: James Craig, Apple
17:11:13 [MichaelC]
also contributed to W3C on WCAG 2 and CSS 2
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and recently in PFWG on ARIA
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with a co-worker, wrote a starting proposal for deliverables of this group
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ack r
17:11:52 [MichaelC]
rs: Rich Schwerdtfeger, CTO for IBM accessibility
17:12:03 [MichaelC]
have worked in a11y nearly 20 years
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work in PFWG, HTML
17:12:15 [andy]
andy has joined #indie-ui
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IMS Global Learning Consortium
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interested in device independent access to mobile
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and IBM products should be able to move across devices without concern about platform nuances
17:13:20 [MichaelC]
zakim, next item
17:13:20 [Zakim]
agendum 2. "TF Overview; Relationship to Web Events and to WAI Indie UI WG" taken up [from janina]
17:13:40 [MichaelC]
js: This is the Independent User Interface Task Force
17:13:56 [MichaelC]
there are two paths to participate, because two W3C groups collaborate on this deliverable
17:14:14 [MichaelC]
Indie UI WG, set up as a spin-out from PFWG
17:14:50 [MichaelC]
and Web Events WG
17:15:21 [MichaelC]
expect the Indie UI home page to be pretty much as it is
17:15:29 [MichaelC]
most of the work will actually happen in this task force
17:15:42 [MichaelC]
<currently represented by>
17:16:02 [MichaelC]
we have the starter draft James submitted
17:16:08 [jcraig]
zakim, who is noisy?
17:16:10 [MichaelC]
we can adopt, modify, or restart
17:16:19 [Zakim]
jcraig, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: Rich (55%)
17:16:22 [MichaelC]
ultimately will have a deliverable
17:16:38 [MichaelC]
that will be published by the sponsoring WG
17:16:42 [MichaelC]
17:17:00 [MichaelC]
<summarizes deliverables>
17:17:27 [MichaelC]
<see for details>
17:17:49 [MichaelC]
an event layer
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and a way to communicate user preferences and configuration to Web App
17:18:28 [MichaelC]
need to address privacy and security concerns
17:19:07 [MichaelC]
17:19:30 [MichaelC]
ds: currently these deliverables are framed as accessibility oriented
17:19:41 [MichaelC]
suggest framing instead as jointly accessibility and web appss
17:19:45 [MichaelC]
17:19:57 [MichaelC]
our primary concern is universal applicabiltiy
17:20:01 [clown]
17:20:10 [MichaelC]
useful to people making any kind of content that would work on various devices
17:20:17 [MichaelC]
js: agreed, we'll look at language
17:21:01 [MichaelC]
re recruiting, we do have a lot of accessibility people right now, want to be sure we get representatives from other types of organizations as well
17:21:16 [shepazu]
17:21:23 [MichaelC]
rs: in addition to browser developers, we should recruit app developers
17:21:33 [shepazu]
17:21:40 [MichaelC]
to understand use cases etc.
17:22:05 [MichaelC]
jc: would also like to reach out to assistive technology developers
17:23:07 [MichaelC]
js: let's come back to these suggestions under recruiting topic
17:23:22 [MichaelC]
js: on group structure
17:23:32 [MichaelC]
we do have some standard infrastructure used by W3C
17:23:40 [MichaelC]
have two staff contacts, one from each sponsoring WG
17:24:00 [MichaelC]
do plan to made task force decisions in teleconferences
17:24:26 [MichaelC]
though will offer a call for objections via mailing list and / or web-based survey as well
17:24:57 [MichaelC]
my experience is that telecon discussions help to move some discussions along more expeditiously
17:25:03 [shepazu]
17:25:07 [MichaelC]
than email and other asynchronous channels
17:25:19 [MichaelC]
but don't want to pin us into specific tools or approaches
17:25:26 [MichaelC]
re Face to Face meetings
17:25:41 [MichaelC]
this group might be ready for one by TPAC in Oct / Nov 2012
17:25:53 [MichaelC]
so have reserved a slot in that meeting week
17:26:12 [MichaelC]
for editing, plan to use commit then review style
17:26:19 [MichaelC]
which is quicker than review than commit
17:26:31 [MichaelC]
but reserve right to modify the style if we see the need
17:26:37 [MichaelC]
note it does work well in some WGs
17:27:12 [MichaelC]
The group operates in public
17:27:24 [MichaelC]
the mailing list is self-subscribe so non-members can join discussion
17:27:45 [MichaelC]
if problems arise from that, we'll address them
17:28:04 [MichaelC]
ack s
17:28:54 [MichaelC]
ds: also plan to have a planning list for chairs and staff contacts
17:29:16 [MichaelC]
can use that list if you need to raise sensitive issues that shouldn't be shared with group or archived publicly
17:29:48 [MichaelC]
will announce that list when it's set up
17:30:16 [MichaelC]
also, I suggest we give a week for calls for objection
17:30:55 [MichaelC]
easier for some people to work with than 48 hours, and doesn't impact logistics much
17:31:04 [MichaelC]
js: sounds good
17:31:25 [ArtB]
17:31:33 [shepazu]
17:31:36 [MichaelC]
ab: work mode sounds good, and similar to Web Events
17:31:58 [MichaelC]
zakim, next item
17:32:28 [shepazu]
17:32:46 [Zakim]
agendum 3. "Home page for TF" taken up [from janina]
17:33:00 [MichaelC]
-> IUI TF work statement
17:33:36 [shepazu]
17:33:53 [MichaelC]
mc: question of whether we should have a home page for the TF besides the work statement
17:34:02 [MichaelC]
and want to get review of the proposed draft work statement
17:34:13 [MichaelC]
ultimately want the sponsoring WGs to approve it
17:34:30 [MichaelC]
ds: let's discuss this on email
17:34:39 [MichaelC]
so people have a chance to arrive
17:34:55 [MichaelC]
17:35:07 [MichaelC]
and copy Web Events
17:35:46 [MichaelC]
need to consider whether TF resolutions are binding on sponsoring groups, or whether resolutions need to be co-ratified
17:36:08 [MichaelC]
I propose the TF resolutions be presumed approved by the sponsoring groups
17:36:40 [MichaelC]
after the call for objection expires
17:36:49 [MichaelC]
mc: does this mean we have to copy stuff to Web events?
17:37:03 [MichaelC]
ab: no, I'll make sure Web events people who care are directly involved
17:38:14 [MichaelC]
mc: well, Indie UI WG and TF overlap, so I have no concerns from that angle
17:38:24 [MichaelC]
but if DS and AB ok on Web Events side, I can be ok
17:38:37 [MichaelC]
but wonder if at least for TR publications, we should require ratification
17:38:57 [MichaelC]
ds: will look into Process formalities
17:40:15 [MichaelC]
action: shepazu to look at whether Process allows a TF to make resolutions binding on a WG, including TF publications
17:40:31 [MichaelC]
mc: at least DS and AB should be present when such a resolution recorded
17:40:38 [MichaelC]
ds: at least one Web Events person should be
17:40:46 [MichaelC]
zakim, next item
17:40:46 [Zakim]
I see a speaker queue remaining and respectfully decline to close this agendum, MichaelC
17:40:49 [MichaelC]
17:40:52 [MichaelC]
ack s
17:40:54 [MichaelC]
17:40:56 [MichaelC]
zakim, next item
17:40:56 [Zakim]
agendum 4. "Variants of spelling of "Indie UI"" taken up [from janina]
17:41:06 [MichaelC]
js: there are three ways Indie UI is spelled
17:41:08 [MichaelC]
Indie UI
17:41:10 [MichaelC]
17:41:12 [MichaelC]
17:41:20 [MichaelC]
will this be confusing?
17:41:39 [shepazu]
NDUI (Neutral-Device User Interface) :)
17:42:09 [MichaelC]
in the IndieUI case, some AT will pronounce weird
17:42:12 [MichaelC]
does that matter?
17:42:21 [MichaelC]
I'm most worried about the IRC channel
17:43:13 [MichaelC]
jc: I prefer indie-ui for lower-case situations, and IndieUI for other situations
17:43:40 [MichaelC]
didn't find that Indie UI variant really needed as a distinguisher from IndieUI
17:44:44 [MichaelC]
mc: charter uses Indie UI, don't know if that can be changed, though other instances could be
17:44:48 [MichaelC]
ds: think it can be
17:45:45 [jcraig]
zakim, who is noisy?
17:45:53 [clown]
17:45:55 [Zakim]
jcraig, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: Janina_Sajka (35%), Rich (33%), Andy_Heath (5%)
17:46:05 [MichaelC]
RESOLUTION: use "indie-ui" for lower-case-only situations, and "IndieUI" for other situations, and drop "Indie UI"
17:46:32 [MichaelC]
action: cooper to change instances of Indie UI to IndieUI
17:46:39 [MichaelC]
zakim, next item
17:46:39 [Zakim]
agendum 5. "Teleconference time" taken up [from janina]
17:46:45 [MichaelC]
js: this time was a first proposal
17:47:17 [MichaelC]
should there be another time?
17:47:34 [MichaelC]
<none suggested>
17:47:48 [MichaelC]
mc: let's make sure to poll list, since the people in this call are the people who could attend this time
17:48:00 [MichaelC]
js: will do that
17:48:10 [MichaelC]
also, let's set up the second call even before the recurring time set up
17:48:16 [Zakim]
+ +1.703.637.aacc
17:48:17 [MichaelC]
propose next Wednesday at the same time
17:48:31 [MichaelC]
jc: regrets for next week
17:48:57 [MichaelC]
js: would want JC present at kick-off
17:50:23 [MichaelC]
zakim, aacc is Sam_Joehl
17:50:23 [Zakim]
+Sam_Joehl; got it
17:50:47 [MichaelC]
<Sam Joehl joins>
17:50:57 [MichaelC]
sj: Sam Joehl, from SSB Bart group
17:53:50 [MichaelC]
js: should we have 60-minute or 90-minute calls?
17:54:38 [MichaelC]
think we have enough leftover agenda for a call next week anyways
17:56:04 [MichaelC]
js: Rich, IMS has stuff for us too?
17:56:10 [clown]
17:56:25 [MichaelC]
rs: yes, they have stuff targeted to leaner customization
17:56:33 [MichaelC]
17:56:48 [MichaelC]
shortly publish 3.0 version
17:56:50 [clown]
17:57:10 [MichaelC]
also in discussion to merge with APIP
17:58:31 [MichaelC]
action: janina to investigate possibility of Indie UI taking up materials from IMS Access For All 3.0 and IMS APIP 1.0
17:58:54 [clown]
18:02:05 [MichaelC]
jc: want to be sure meetings aren't so frequent or long that key players avoid coming to them
18:02:41 [MichaelC]
so suggest once every other week for 60 minutes
18:03:37 [MichaelC]
mc: next week is exceptional because we're starting up
18:03:49 [MichaelC]
ds: so we meet this week, next week, the following, then go to every other week
18:03:56 [MichaelC]
js: how long?
18:04:03 [MichaelC]
<general request is 60 minute calls>
18:04:07 [MichaelC]
Next meeting: Wednesday 13 July at 17:00 UTC for 60 minutes
18:05:03 [MichaelC]
ds: note we need to be sure people on the calls are formal participants in the group
18:05:27 [MichaelC]
mc: for startup think we should be flexible but yes, we'll need to enforce that when the work gets going
18:05:47 [MichaelC]
ds: if you're not already a member, please contact Michael or Doug
18:06:29 [Zakim]
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WAI_Indie()1:00PM has ended
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Attendees were +44.114.288.aaaa, Cooper, Andy_Heath, Janina_Sajka, +358.718.00aabb, Art_Barstow, Joseph_Scheuhammer, Doug_Schepers, jcraig, Rich, +1.703.637.aacc, Sam_Joehl
18:09:03 [MichaelC]
rrsagent, make minutes
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I have made the request to generate MichaelC
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present- +44.114.288.aaaa
18:10:02 [MichaelC]
present- +358.718.00aabb
18:10:09 [MichaelC]
present- +1.703.637.aacc
18:10:20 [MichaelC]
scribeOptions: -final
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rrsagent, make minutes
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I have made the request to generate MichaelC
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