14:19:41 RRSAgent has joined #ua 14:19:41 logging to http://www.w3.org/2012/06/04-ua-irc 14:19:43 RRSAgent, make logs public 14:19:43 Zakim has joined #ua 14:19:45 Zakim, this will be WAI_UAWG 14:19:45 ok, trackbot, I see WAI_UAWG()9:00AM already started 14:19:46 Meeting: User Agent Accessibility Guidelines Working Group Teleconference 14:19:46 Date: 04 June 2012 14:20:09 rrsagent, make minutes 14:20:09 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/06/04-ua-minutes.html AllanJ 14:20:15 Admin has joined #ua 14:20:16 rrsagent, make minutes 14:20:16 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/06/04-ua-minutes.html kford 14:20:47 chair: kellyford, jimallan 14:21:01 rrsagent, make minutes 14:21:01 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/06/04-ua-minutes.html kford 14:22:44 +??P12 14:23:29 kford has joined #ua 14:23:31 Admin has joined #ua 14:23:41 zakim, ??P12 is really Jan 14:23:41 +Jan; got it 14:23:42 AllanJ has joined #ua 14:23:54 greg has joined #ua 14:26:23 mhakkinen has joined #ua 14:29:38 We are starting in just a second. 14:30:04 Jeanne ahnding out W3C swag items. Nowgiving him a sweater for hosting. 14:30:55 http://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/2012/ED-UAAG20-20120531/ 14:31:20 Repalce date with 0604 as soon as we start making changes today. 14:32:45 present: Jim, Kelly, Greg, Kim, Jeanne, Jan, Mark 14:33:37 topic: Intent Intent 1.7.4 14:33:39 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2012AprJun/0093.html 14:34:37 owr->own 14:35:21 powerful stylesheet->stylesheet 14:36:17 Intent: 14:36:18 Stylesheets provide for powerful customization of rendered content. From time to time a user may need to make only slight modifications to the stylesheets used on a web site to satisfy certain accessibility needs. At other times a web author may have created a stylesheet that a user with a disability finds helpful. The intent of this success criteria is to allow users to easily save the... 14:36:20 ...CSS for a web site and make needed modifications without having to create full stylesheet of their own and to apply well designed stylesheets to other web pages where they find the stylesheets helpful. 14:36:35 question: where it says save the CSS, is that implying inline CSS also? Should it just be the extrernal style sheet? 14:36:57 I believe it is just the external. 14:37:04 That is external CSS. 14:37:31 This would only be external and not that inline or in the head. 14:37:54 Intent: Stylesheets provide for powerful customization of rendered content. From time to time a user may need to make only slight modifications to the author supplied external stylesheets used on a web site to satisfy certain accessibility needs. At other times a web author may have created a stylesheet that a user with a disability finds helpful. The intent of this success criteria is to... 14:37:56 ...allow users to easily save the CSS for a web site and make needed modifications without having to create full stylesheet of their own and to apply well designed stylesheets to other web pages where they find the stylesheets helpful. 14:38:34 scribe: jallan 14:39:54 Resolution: include the above as intent for 1.7.4 14:40:02 rrsagent, make minutes 14:40:02 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/06/04-ua-minutes.html AllanJ 14:40:38 add External to wording of SC 1.7.4 14:40:49 topic: guideline one questions 14:40:51 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2012AprJun/0097.html 14:46:30 jeanne_ has joined #ua 14:47:27 User choice of alternative content? 14:49:07 Resolution: change stem of 1.1.1 to User Choice of Alternative Content 14:49:17 rrsagent, make minutes 14:49:17 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/06/04-ua-minutes.html AllanJ 14:54:46 discussion of cross reference between 1.1.3 and 1.3.1 about elements with alternative content 14:55:46 gl: suggest delete 1.1.3. keep i.3.1 remove reference to 1.1.3 on (d) and change definition of highlight 14:57:01 Change 3rd sentence of definition of highlight to "Graphical highlight mechanisms include dotted boxes, changed colors or fonts, underlining, adjacent icons, magnification, and reverse video." 14:57:30 Typo: add space after fist comma in 2nd sentence of definition of highlight. 14:59:23 rrsagent: make minutes 14:59:23 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/06/04-ua-minutes.html AllanJ 14:59:45 jeanne has joined #ua 14:59:46 all +1 15:02:56 resolution: delete 1.1.3. keep 1.3.1 remove reference to 1.1.3 on (d) (see 1.1.3), Jeanne to review IER of 113 and move necessary parts to 1.3.1, 15:06:51 rrsagent: make minutes 15:06:51 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/06/04-ua-minutes.html AllanJ 15:12:42 topic: review action-728 15:14:10 views that render text should follow keyboard text conventions for a given control (input, plain text, tree view, custom control) 15:15:25 2.1.7 Follow Text Keyboard Conventions (former 2.1.5): The user agent follows keyboard conventions for the operating environment. 15:15:49 2.1.7 Follow Keyboard Conventions (former 2.1.5): The user agent follows keyboard conventions for the operating environment. 15:16:18 2.1.7 Follow Keyboard Conventions (former 2.1.5): The user agent follows keyboard conventions of the operating environment. 15:17:46 resoluition: change 2.1.7 Follow Keyboard Conventions (former 2.1.5): The user agent follows keyboard conventions for the operating environment. 15:19:18 AllanJ has joined #ua 15:19:29 kford has joined #ua 15:19:29 resolution: change 2.1.7 Follow Keyboard Conventions (former 2.1.5): The user agent follows keyboard conventions for the operating environment. 15:19:31 Admin has joined #ua 15:20:00 kford has joined #ua 15:20:16 resolution: Change 3rd sentence of definition of highlight to "Graphical highlight mechanisms include dotted boxes, changed colors or fonts, underlining, adjacent icons, magnification, and reverse video." Typo: add space after fist comma in 2nd sentence of definition of highlight. 15:20:19 rrsagent, make minutes 15:20:19 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/06/04-ua-minutes.html kford 15:20:34 jeanne_ has joined #ua 15:20:41 rrsagent: make minutes 15:20:41 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/06/04-ua-minutes.html AllanJ 15:20:57 greg has joined #ua 15:21:38 rrsagent: make minutes 15:21:38 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/06/04-ua-minutes.html AllanJ 15:22:43 s/fist/first 15:26:24 kp: 2.2.1 and 2.3.1 should be cross referenced 15:32:22 Kelly suggests that we an close 717 because it's not necessarily to have sequential navigation between important elements, and not sure what else it refers to. 15:32:58 discussion of direct and sequential navigation. 15:35:07 on this page x, y, z and important element, can tab through sequentially through all elements, and to discover those elements that are important 15:35:43 gl: 257 structured navigation. seems to overlap with our discussion. limited to structural navigation. 15:36:27 kim will take over action-717 sequential navigation between important elements 15:37:00 jr: if jumping from header to header. are you moving sequentially or directly between headers 15:37:18 kf: direct would be jump to the 3 heading 15:37:51 jr: if I say save, I mean save this document not some other document. 15:38:26 ... 231 15:39:28 kf: see examples. this is related to mouseless browsing. then can jump to specified objects 15:39:36 The user can navigate directly to any important (structural and operable) element in rendered content. 15:40:01 gl: reviews definition of navigation. 15:41:43 jr: what is the purpose of structural in admin statement abo ve 15:41:53 s/abo ve/above 15:42:19 jr: links are not structure, they are operable. 15:42:53 should be "The user can navigate directly to any important (e.g. structural or operable) element in rendered content. 15:43:22 gl: structural elements would be table columns, headers, etc. 15:43:32 ... is structural elements defined. 15:43:41 The user can navigate directly to any important (e.g. structural or operable) element in rendered content. 15:43:56 jr: direct navigation is very direct 15:44:09 kf: why do we have 233 15:44:35 sequential nav is 221. 15:44:59 jr: should 221 have next element in a class 15:45:17 rrsagent, make minutes 15:45:17 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/06/04-ua-minutes.html AllanJ 15:48:06 js: we have an SC to define important elements. 15:48:15 jr: that is AAA 15:48:44 kp: missing is moving sequentially through important elements. 15:49:45 gl: is this a disservice. one of the things people want is structural navigation. in H3 move but want to jump up to H2 15:50:21 gl: most commonly requested structural navigation are header and table navigation 15:51:30 js: asking a company to add a feature for generic element navigation, should be more specific (header and table) make it AA or A 15:51:38 The user can move the keyboard focus backwards and forwards through subsets of enabled elements in the current viewport including headers and tables 15:52:42 gl: make generic important elements AAA and nav between headers and table row/column AA or A 15:53:08 kp: table elements, row, column, header (TH) 15:54:41 jr: direct can be very arbitrary, 3rd H3 from bottom of document 15:56:02 continued discussion of navigation (direct, sequential) 15:56:58 gl: if in a menu, items with underlines are direct navigation element 15:57:42 alt-f is direct navigation to menus. top and bottom, etc. there are set points to jump to. 15:58:12 gl: jumping to different part of the heading tree (h3 to h1) is structural. 15:58:35 kp: users don't care what the navigation is called they just want to do it. 15:59:46 zakim, admin is really Kim 15:59:46 sorry, jeanne, I do not recognize a party named 'admin' 16:00:04 zakim, Admin is really Kim 16:00:04 sorry, jeanne, I do not recognize a party named 'Admin' 16:00:20 gl: that's why we have outline view or headings map. to add the sequential/structural navigation (imposed) to something that did not have an existing structure 16:00:27 The user can move the keyboard focus among subsets of enabled elements in the current viewport including headers and tables 16:01:34 The new SC on structural navigation could be something like: The user can move the focus forward, backward, up and down a structural hierarchy (e.g. between headers or within a table). 16:01:41 The user agent provides at least one type of structural navigation (e.g. by headers, table headers).? 16:02:22 The new SC on structural navigation could be something like: The user can move the focus forward, backward, up and down a structural hierarchy (including between headers or within a table). 16:03:14 kp: one or more... 16:03:32 gl: should specifically add headers and table navigation 16:03:46 ... within table naviageion 16:03:59 s/naviageion/navigation 16:04:04 he new SC on structural navigation could be something like: The user can move the focus forward, backward, up and down a structural hierarchy (e.g. between headers or within tables). 16:04:19 The user agent provides at least the following types of structural navigation, where the structure types exist: (a) by header. (b) table headers? 16:05:33 kp: this should be AA 16:05:53 discussion of A vs. AA 16:06:00 +1 to AA 16:06:04 agree that should be AA 16:06:06 +1 to AA 16:06:15 +1 to AA 16:06:31 js: put it in 2.2 16:07:31 kp: put this in sequential 16:07:41 js agrees 16:07:54 kp: add to 2.2.5 16:07:56 +1 to having it in 2.2 16:08:13 gl: what about 2.5 16:08:26 kp: ah ha. should be 2.5 16:09:40 proposed: new sc in 2.5 The user agent provides at least the following types of structural navigation, where the structure types exist: (a) by header. (b) table headers 16:10:15 ja: just table headers, or are we talking within table navigation, like screen readers provide 16:10:53 The user agent provides at least the following types of structural navigation, where the structure types exist: (a) by header. (b) with tables 16:11:07 The user agent provides at least the following types of structural navigation, where the structure types exist: (a) by header. (b) within tables 16:13:06 resolved: The user agent provides at least the following types of structural navigation, where the structure types exist: (a) by header. (b) within tables 16:47:29 mhakkinen has joined #ua 16:48:31 Proposal for 174 example: 16:48:35 Mikki browses to her favorite web site and finds the Arial 18 point type used for all headlines works well with her level of vision. She then discovers a new web site and finds it difficult to read. Returning to her favorite site a friend helps her discover that the headlines are created with a CSS stylesheet. The two save this stylesheet and study how it is created. Mikki is then able... 16:48:36 ...to quickly modify this stylesheet and use it on other web sites, such as the new site she's discovered and adjusts the text to her liking. 17:31:53 rrsagent, make minutes 17:31:53 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/06/04-ua-minutes.html AllanJ 17:32:00 back from lunch 17:35:48 topic: 186 17:35:49 Intent of Success Criterion 1.8.6: 17:35:50 Some users want to be able to magnify content to make it more legible. Some users want to be able to shrink content so that more of the content is visible onscreen, which can help them understand the structure of the content and their position in the content, even if text has become too small to read. 17:35:53 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2012AprJun/0099.html 17:36:20 Examples of Success Criterion 1.8.6: 17:36:21 - A web application uses small text fonts, mixed with graphical elements. The user tries increasing the text size alone, but the graphical elements remain at their original sizes, causing the application to be displayed improperly. Instead, the user zooms in on the application, which makes the text more legible without breaking other aspects of the presentation. 17:36:23 - A viewport is used to display an image depicting an organization chart. A user with a learning disability has difficulty maintaining a mental representation of the organizational linkages for items out of view. In order to facilitate their understanding of the organization, the user zooms out to allow the entire chart to be displayed. 17:36:31 rrsagent, make minutes 17:36:31 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/06/04-ua-minutes.html kford 17:37:16 Admin has joined #ua 17:39:04 gl: do we want to say anything about reflowing 17:39:28 ... is there an implicit assumption that text reflowing 17:39:58 gl: just a question. should we say anything about reflow. 17:42:17 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2012AprJun/0043.html 17:44:50 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2012AprJun/0052.html 17:46:38 kp: +1 add user name 17:46:43 ja: +1 17:50:43 resolved: 186 ier http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2012AprJun/0099.html add to document 17:51:04 rrsagent, make minutes 17:51:04 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/06/04-ua-minutes.html AllanJ 17:51:59 topic: i.7.4 examples 17:52:19 1.7.4 Example: 17:52:21 Mikki browses to her favorite web site and finds the Arial 18 point type used for all headlines works well with her level of vision. She then discovers a new web site and finds it difficult to read. Returning to her favorite site a friend helps her discover that the headlines are created with a CSS stylesheet. The two save this stylesheet and study how it is created. Mikki is then able... 17:52:23 ...to quickly modify this stylesheet and use it on other web sites, such as the new site she's discovered and adjusts the text to her liking. 17:56:56 topic: 217 revise IER 17:57:41 2.1.7 Follow Keyboard Conventions (former 2.1.5): The user agent follows keyboard conventions for the operating environment. 17:57:43 Intent: 17:57:45 Keyboard users rely on the user agent to provide keyboard support that is both full-featured and consistent between applications. When user agents follow platform conventions for keyboard access it helps ensure that the functionality they rely on are not accidentally omitted. In addition, making these inputs consistent within and across programs greatly reduces learning curve, cognitive... 17:57:46 ...load, and errors. User agents are encouraged to add keyboard commands when such would provide additional features or benefit for users, but should avoid omitting the standard commands, or assigning them to different keys. 17:57:48 Examples: 17:57:49 Jack edits blog posts in his browser's text area control, and can use the same keys for navigation and editing (e.g. arrow keys, as well as commands to move to the beginning and end of the line or content, cut, copy and paste) and formatting that he's used to using in every other application on the platform. 17:57:52 Jack's user agent presents a custom tree control showing a hierarchal outline view of the document headings. He can navigate within that control using the same keys as work in the native tree controls used in other applications (e.g. the up, down, left and right arrow keys, as well as navigating directly to entries by typing the beginning of their text). 17:57:56 Jack puts his browser into a caret browsing mode, in which he can move the text cursor through the text on the page. The browser supports the same keys for navigation and editing (e.g. arrow keys, as well as commands to move to the beginning and end of the line or content, and for copying) as are used in other applications. 18:02:57 Jack's user agent's custom tree control shows a hierarchal outline view of the document headings. He can navigate within that control using the same keys as work in the native tree controls used in other applications (e.g. the up, down, left and right arrow keys, as well as navigating directly to entries by typing the beginning of their text). 18:05:59 resolved: include gregs ier above for 217 18:06:45 rrsagent, make minutes 18:06:45 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/06/04-ua-minutes.html AllanJ 18:06:51 1.7.4 Example: 18:06:53 Mikki browses to anew hweb site and discovers that the Arial 14 point type used for all headlines does not work well with her level of vision. A friend helps Mikki discover that the headlines are created with a CSS stylesheet. They save this stylesheet and study how it is created. Mikki is then able to quickly modify this stylesheet and adjust the headline text to alarger font and a... 18:06:54 ...different typeface. 18:06:58 topic: examples 1.7.4 18:07:11 1.7.4 Example: 18:07:13 Mikki browses to anew hweb site and discovers that the Arial 14 point type used for all headlines does not work well with her level of vision. A friend helps Mikki discover that the headlines are created with a CSS stylesheet. They save this stylesheet and study how it is created. Mikki is then able to quickly modify this stylesheet and adjust the headline text to alarger font and a... 18:07:15 ...different typeface. 18:11:04 Mikki browses to a new web site and discovers that the Arial 14 point type used for all headlines does not work well with her level of vision. A friend helps Mikki discover that the headlines are created with a CSS stylesheet. They save this stylesheet and study how it is created. Mikki can then quickly modify this stylesheet to adjust the headline text to a larger font and a different... 18:11:06 ...typeface. She can use the modified stylesheet by applying it as a user style sheet. 18:12:33 resolved: use 174 language above. 18:13:46 resolved: add the following as intent for 174 18:14:02 Intent: Stylesheets provide for powerful customization of rendered content. From time to time a user may need to make only slight modifications to the author supplied external stylesheets used on a web site to satisfy certain accessibility needs. At other times a web author may have created a stylesheet that a user with a disability finds helpful. The intent of this success criteria is to... 18:14:03 ...allow users to easily save the CSS for a web site and make needed modifications without having to create full stylesheet of their own and to apply well designed stylesheets to other web pages where they find the stylesheets helpful. 18:14:40 topic: 241 ier revise 18:15:15 examples: 18:15:21 the user has alternative content revealed. when the user searches the contents the alternative content is also searched.in a video user agent, the user has captions turned on. The user can now use the search function to seach through the captions and jump to the point in the video where the search term is located in the time line.The user is using a browser with native support for SVG. when... 18:15:23 ...searching the SVG is searched along with html content. 18:15:50 the user has alternative content revealed. when the user searches the contents the alternative content is also searched. 18:16:14 b. in a video user agent, the user has captions turned on. The user can now use the search function to seach through the captions and jump to the point in the video where the search term is located in the time line. 18:16:30 c. The user is using a browser with native support for SVG. when searching the SVG is searched along with html content. 18:18:08 zakim, close action 717 18:18:08 I don't understand 'close action 717', kford 18:18:20 Close: Action 717 18:18:32 Close: Action 717 18:18:54 Close Action-717 18:18:55 ACTION-717 Resolve direct and sequential navigation to important elements 2.3.1 and 2.2.1. closed 18:20:21 close action-664 18:20:21 ACTION-664 Look at intent for 2.4.1 on find and ensure it clearly states goal to allow the user to find whatever the user agent is displaying e.g. covers the case where you have chosen alternatives. closed 18:20:37 Close Action-728 18:20:37 ACTION-728 Revise 2.1.7 Follow Text Keyboard Conventions to acknowledge not all view showing text should follow text area conventions. closed 18:21:52 jim will fix examples to include a11y angle, and the intent needs revised. 18:22:15 -Jan 18:23:00 +??P0 18:23:25 zakim, ??P0 is really Jan 18:23:25 +Jan; got it 18:24:24 2.5.6 Navigate by Structural Element 18:24:26 The user agent provides at least the following types of structural navigation, where the structure types exist: (a) by header (b) within tables. 18:24:28 Intent of Success Criterion 2.5.6 18:24:29 Users who find it difficult or impossible to use the mouse require an efficient way to jump among elements without having to navigate through intervening content. Navigating by heading is especially important when scanning a webpage to find a pertinent section. Navigating by table element is especially important when building or reading tables. 18:24:31 Examples of Success Criterion 2.5.5 : 18:24:32 Jamie is blind. When he reads the New York Times he scans the headlines to find interesting story. In order to do this needs a way to go from headline to headline. 18:24:34 Billie is a paraplegic who uses speech. She writes long legal documents. When she is proofing a document she needs to scan each section header. it takes far fewer speech commands to navigate the section headers when she can jump directly to them. Billie also makes extensive use of tables. It takes far fewer speech commands to navigate tables when she can jump directly among elements. Direct... 18:24:36 topic: 2.5.6 navigation 18:24:36 ...navigation to headlines and table elements allows her to do her job without overusing her vocal cords and within required time constraints. 18:24:39 Celia she finds it difficult to have short-term memory issues and is easily distracted. When looking for any particular section of the document she finds it easier to scan through headings by jumping from heading to heading rather than having to scan through an entire page of potentially distracting text. 18:28:07 gl: need different example for within table navigation 18:28:52 No, need an example of hierarchical navigation, as opposed to just sequential navigation among headings. 18:31:33 Celia has short-term memory issues and is easily distracted. When looking for any particular section of the document she finds it easier to scan through headings by jumping from heading to heading rather than having to scan through an entire page of potentially distracting text. Celia also finds it useful to be able to move from a subheading to a major heading to orient herself within the context without becoming confused. 18:33:30 resolved: examples of 256 above that were smithed live and edited in the master document. 18:37:13 topic: 2.7.6 18:37:17 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2012AprJun/0045.html 18:40:35 edited live in the master document, live smithing 18:42:28 kf: 18:43:15 kf: adjust phrasing of SC. should it be ALL user agent preference settings 18:43:50 js: to meet these guidelines. then they can test against this document 18:44:48 kp: in the future there may be some new setting that we don't know about that greatly affects accessibility. but that is a moving target. fine with current wording 18:45:04 live edit in master document. 18:45:45 gl: add note: UA encouraged to go beyond... 18:46:16 Some users have a disability that prevents them from setting up the user agent to their requirements when it is first installed or used. They require the ability to set accessibility requirements before entering the user agent. There are multiple ways this can be accomplished including: detecting and implementing the platform accessibility settings, providing an external file to modify, access to settings from a separate utility program, or providing accessibilit 18:46:57 2.7.6 Change preference settings outside the user interface: The user can adjust any preference settings required to meet the User Agent Accessibility Guidelines (UAAG) 2.0 from outside the user agent user interface. (Level AA 18:48:23 Examples of Success Criterion 2.7.6 : 18:48:24 Sasha requires high contrast to be able to discriminate the shape of 18:48:26 letters. She has set the accessibility preferences on her mobile phone 18:48:27 to use the high contrast mode. When she launches her mobile browser for 18:48:29 the first time, it detects that she is using high contrast and presents 18:48:30 the opening page to her in high contrast mode. 18:48:32 Justin has low vision and an attention deficit disorder. He is setting 18:48:33 up his new e-book reader and is interrupted while setting the default 18:48:35 font colors. He accidentally sets his background and font color to 18:48:36 white on white and cannot read the settings screen to recover his 18:48:38 default settings. Justin exits the reader and follows the instructions 18:48:39 on the reader vendor web site to edit the "settings.ini" file to adjust 18:48:41 the colors outside the program, so he can use the reader the way he needs. 18:48:42 Aosa is blind and uses the accessibility settings on his mobile phone. 18:48:44 Because he has accidentally removed his settings in the past, he has now 18:48:45 set the hard button on his phone to restore his settings. 18:48:47 Bintu is deaf and enjoys watching captioned videos. Since different 18:48:48 video players may not have accessible settings, she sets her browser to 18:48:50 always display captions, and hopes that the video player does not 18:48:51 override the browser settings. 18:49:09 kf: first example, Sasha is good but not an example of this SC 18:49:20 rrsagent, make minutes 18:49:20 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/06/04-ua-minutes.html AllanJ 18:51:36 kf: this SC is asking for a way for me to turn on caret browsing before I open the browser 18:52:25 jr: agree with kelly, asking for the ability for the user to change every setting related to UAAG seems like a big task 18:53:30 kf: responding to system settings is not a UA setting. 18:54:05 js: review other examples. if they are OK can remove the high contrast example. 18:59:55 -Jan 20:02:40 topic: 2.4.1 again 20:04:06 jeanne__ has joined #ua 20:04:09 Admin_ has joined #ua 20:04:57 greg has joined #ua 20:05:12 jeanne has joined #ua 20:05:16 kford has joined #ua 20:05:43 AllanJ has joined #ua 20:05:52 +??P0 20:06:50 Intent of Success Criterion 2.4.1 : 20:06:51 Local find in a user agent allows the user to easily locate desired information in rendered content. The ability to search for alternative text content allows screen reader users to find content they heard on their speaker. Users with hearing impairment use find as an efficient method of jumping to specific points in a video. 20:06:53 examples: 20:06:54 Marvin is dexterity impaired. He needs to move efficiently to specific text in the document. The user agent provides a local search function that is available using speech commands. Marvin says "find," a text box with a search button appears. He spells the word he is looking for, and says "enter", which executes the search function. 20:06:56 Betty, who is low vision, is attempting to create a user stylesheet for site. She need to know the 'class' attribute value for navigation headers. Betty gets the source view of the current page and searches for the specific phrase used in a navigation list to find the class associated with the navigation list. 20:06:57 Joe, a user with a distraction disorder, is taking an online exam. He is working on the 6th question when he realizes he wrote something wrong in the essay on question 2. He uses the local search in the browser to find the text in error inside the textarea of question 2. 20:07:00 Sam, is a screen reader user. He has images off and the alternative content for images is revealed. He wants to send the flow chart image on the page to a collegue. Sam searches for the word "flowchart" that he heard spoken as part of the 'alt' text for the image. He then uses the context menu to select the address of the image and sends it to a colleague. 20:07:06 Agnes is deaf. She is watching a video with captions turned on. Agnes uses the search function to seach through the captions and jump to the point in the video where the search term is located in the time line. 20:07:07 zakim, ??P0 is really Jan 20:07:07 +Jan; got it 20:07:08 Greta, has a reading impairment. She is trying efficient locate some information in a large detailed graphic. She is using a browser with native support for SVG. Greta searches for a term and the SVG is searched along with html content. 20:08:43 gl: add People who have difficulty reading or are slow reader rely more on search to efficiently gain meaning from the content rather than scanning 20:09:50 People who read slowly or with difficulty due to a disability rely more heavily on the ability to search for the text they're looking for, rather than scanning or reading an entire document to find it. 20:10:52 Local find in a user agent allows the user to easily locate desired information in rendered content. People who read slowly or with difficulty due to a disability rely more heavily on the ability to search for the text they're looking for, rather than scanning or reading an entire document to find it. The ability to search for alternative text content allows screen reader users to find... 20:10:53 ...content they heard on their speaker. Users with hearing impairment use find as an efficient method of jumping to specific points in a video. 20:12:25 as well as allowing users with more moderate visual impairments locate images that they would have difficulty distinguishing by visual means alone. 20:14:19 Local find in a user agent allows the user to easily locate desired information in rendered content. People who read or navigate slowly or with difficulty due to a disability rely more heavily on the ability to search for the text they're looking for, rather than scanning or reading an entire document to find it. The ability to search for alternative text content allows screen reader users... 20:14:20 ...to find content they heard on their speaker. Users with hearing impairment use find as an efficient method of jumping to specific points in a video. 20:15:31 The user is using a browser with native support for SVG. when searching the SVG is searched along with html content. 20:17:06 Users who find it difficult to use the mouse or keyboard and have to limit their physical operations will save movements using search. 20:18:53 question: is anything said in the examples as to how search hits are highlighted and position indicated, for example, an organiztional chart rendered in SVG? 20:19:42 Local find in a user agent allows the user to easily locate desired information in rendered content. People who read or navigate slowly or with difficulty due to a disability rely more heavily on the ability to search for text, rather than scanning or reading an entire document to find it. In addition, the ability to search alternative content allows screen reader users to find content they... 20:19:44 ...heard on their speaker. And users with hearing impairment use find as an efficient method of jumping to specific points in a video. 20:20:41 Greg: Mark, funny you should bring up SVG 20:21:38 and don't get me started on canvas ;) 20:22:01 Local find in a user agent allows the user to easily locate desired information in rendered content. People who read or navigate slowly or with difficulty due to a disability rely more heavily on the ability to search for text, rather than scanning or reading an entire document to find it. In addition, the ability to search alternative content allows screen reader users to find content they... 20:22:02 ...heard on their speaker. And users with hearing impairment use find as an efficient method of jumping to specific points in a video. Users who find it difficult to use the mouse or keyboard and have to limit their physical operations will save movements using search. 20:22:58 kf: remove the word 'local' 20:24:31 gl: can't just say 'find in a user agent..." should say 'the find function in a user agent..." or "the ability to search for text in a user agent...." 20:26:19 The find or search function in a user agent allows the user to easily locate desired information in rendered content. People who read or navigate slowly or with difficulty due to a disability rely more heavily on the ability to search for text, rather than scanning or reading an entire document to find it. The ability to search alternative content allows screen reader users to find content they heard on their speaker. Users with hearing impairments use find as an 20:26:27 resolved: intent for 2.4.1 is as above 20:26:51 ...as an efficient method of jumping to specific points in a video. Users who find it difficult to use the mouse or keyboard and have to limit their physical operations will save movements using search. 20:27:12 examples 20:28:02 a. Marvin is dexterity impaired. He needs to move efficiently to specific text in the document. The user agent provides a local search function that is available using speech commands. Marvin says "find," a text box with a search button appears. He spells the word he is looking for, and says "enter", which executes the search function. 20:28:06 rrsagent, make minutes 20:28:06 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/06/04-ua-minutes.html jeanne 20:30:11 a. Marvin is dexterity impaired. He needs to move efficiently to specific text in the document. The user agent provides a local search function that is available using speech commands. Marvin says "find box," a text box with a search button appears. He speaks the word he is looking for, and says "find text", which executes the search function. 20:30:58 a. Marvin is dexterity impaired. He needs to move efficiently to specific text in the document. The user agent provides a local search function that is available using speech commands. Marvin says "find box," a text box with a search button appears. He speaks the word he is looking for, and says "enter", which executes the search function. 20:31:46 Betty, who is low vision, is attempting to create a user stylesheet for site. She need to know the 'class' attribute value for navigation headers. Betty gets the source view of the current page and searches for the specific phrase used in a navigation list to find the class associated with the navigation list. 20:32:39 s/is dexterity impaired/has a dexterity impairment 20:33:38 Betty, who is low vision, is attempting to create a user stylesheet for site. She need to know the 'class' attribute value for navigation headers. Betty gets the source view of the current page and searches for the specific phrase used in a navigation list to find the class associated with the element. 20:35:41 jr: the sc does not say anything about searching in a source view. 20:36:00 gl: the browser renders the source view, it is just a different presentation. 20:37:31 js: examples are informative or best practices. 20:37:46 kf: source is another type of rendering 20:38:26 Joe, a user with a distraction disorder, is taking an online exam. He is working on the 6th question when he realizes he wrote something wrong in the essay on question 2. He uses the local search in the browser to find the text in error inside the textarea of question 2. 20:38:56 ja: there is 'local' search, remove it 20:40:02 Sam, is a screen reader user. He has images off and the alternative content for images is revealed. He wants to send the flow chart image on the page to a collegue. Sam searches for the word "flowchart" that he heard spoken as part of the 'alt' text for the image. He then uses the context menu to select the address of the image and sends it to a colleague. 20:41:17 Agnes is deaf. She is watching a video with captions turned on. Agnes uses the search function to seach through the captions and jump to the point in the video where the search term is located in the time line. 20:42:13 Greta, has a reading impairment. She is trying efficient locate some information in a large detailed graphic. She is using a browser with native support for SVG. Greta searches for a term and the SVG is searched along with html content. 20:42:57 in IE 9 the text in the SVG that had text was highlighted. 20:43:44 ok 20:44:13 Greta, has a reading impairment. She is trying to efficiently locate some information in a large, detailed graphic. She is using a browser with native support for SVG. Greta searches for a term and the text within SVG is searched along with html content. 20:45:01 in FF the point of regard is moved to the text in the SVG but it is not highlighted in any way 20:45:50 we don't have any examples of SVG with alt text to see what happens with search. 20:46:13 we tested in FF and IE turned images off, but SVG remained on the screen 20:47:56 in chrome, the text is found but not highlighted 20:48:17 same as FF 20:48:37 probably Safari, then, too. 20:48:49 they would both fail the other SC relating to highlighting found search terms 20:49:18 discussion of the Summary of GL2 20:49:39 resolved: add above examples to the IER of 2.4.1 20:50:15 kf: 2.4.3 this needs some work 20:50:37 fyi... safari highlights and positions. cool effect. 20:50:50 awesome. 20:52:04 yes. 20:53:17 kf: 2.4.5 is confusing, need rewriting, parts are redundant to 2.4.1, This is only place where search by case is mentioned 20:53:24 http://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/work/wiki/Browser_Compliance_Notes 20:53:25 1.8.Y: Reflowing Zoom: The user can request that when reflowable content in a graphical viewport is rescaled, it is reflowed such that one dimension of the content fits within the height or width of the viewport. (Level AA) ## DONE 26 April - need IER 20:53:26 Note: User agents are encouraged to allow user to override author instructions to not wrap content (e.g., nowrap). 20:53:28 Intent for 1.8.1: 20:53:29 It’s important that when content is reflowed it remains easily usable. Content is not easily usable if the user has to scroll back and forth to see a single line of text. This is an especially acute issue for users who find it difficult or impossible to use the mouse to scroll and for users who find it difficult to reorient when the content changes. 20:53:31 Examples for 1.8.1: 20:53:32 Frank has repetitive strain injuries and uses speech input. As he's gotten older he sometimes needs to increase the font size to comfortably read text on his computer screen. If the text does not flow properly, he finds himself overusing his voice to carry out multiple speech commands to carry out scrolling commands for every line of text, exacerbating his repetitive strain injuries by using... 20:53:34 ...the mouse, or simply giving up. 20:53:36 Maggie has cognitive issues that make it difficult for her to reorient when the computer screen changes. She occasionally zooms in to read small text. She finds it easier to reorient after zooming when at least one dimension of the content fits within the height or width of the viewport. 20:53:43 topic: I.8.Y ier above 20:55:38 +1 to 1.8.Y intent 20:56:50 Frank has repetitive strain injuries and uses speech input. As he's gotten older he sometimes needs to increase the font size to comfortably read text on his computer screen. If the text does not flow properly, he finds himself overusing his voice to carry out multiple speech commands to carry out scrolling commands for every line of text, exacerbatinghis injuries by using... 20:56:52 ...the mouse, or simply giving up. 20:57:44 Frank has repetitive strain injuries and uses speech input. As he's gotten older he sometimes needs to increase the font size to comfortably read text on his computer screen. If the text does not flow properly, he finds himself overusing his voice to carry out multiple speech commands to, exacerbating his repetitive strain injuries by using... 20:57:46 ...the mouse, or simply giving up. 21:00:52 Frank has repetitive strain injuries and uses speech input. As he's gotten older he sometimes needs to increase the font size to comfortably read text on his computer screen. If the text does not flow properly, he overuses his voice to carry out multiple speech commands, exacerbates his injuries by using the mouse, or simply gives up. 21:07:32 Frank has repetitive strain injuries and uses speech input. As he's gotten older he sometimes needs to increase the font size to comfortably read text on his computer screen. If the text does not flow properly, he overuses his voice to carry out multiple speech commands, or uses the mouse exacerbating his injuries, or simply gives up. 21:09:11 Frank has repetitive strain injuries and uses speech input. As he's gotten older he sometimes needs to increase the font size to comfortably read text on his computer screen. If the text does not flow properly, he overuses his voice to carry out multiple speech commands, or uses the mouse which exacerbates his injuries, or simply gives up. 21:09:28 -Jan 21:13:24 editorial review of 1.8.y 21:16:35 gl: by stating that the user can request in 1.8.y, are we implying that reflowing can be turned off 21:18:27 gl: review wording....is it saying, always, available, or ??? (neither require nor prohibit the reflowing of content 21:21:04 -??P10 21:21:05 WAI_UAWG()9:00AM has ended 21:21:05 Attendees were Jan 21:21:19 rrsagent, make minutes 21:21:19 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/06/04-ua-minutes.html AllanJ 21:22:35 resolved: 21:22:54 Intent for 1.8.Y (1.8.13) It’s important that when content is reflowed it remains easily usable. Content is not easily usable if the user has to scroll back and forth to see a single line of text. This is an especially acute issue for users who find it difficult or impossible to use the mouse to scroll and for users who find it difficult to reorient when the content changes. This does not require or prohibit the user agent from providing an option to turn off r 21:23:48 kford has joined #ua 21:28:45 topic: 2.7.6 change preference settings outside UAUI 21:28:52 rrsagent, make minutes 21:28:52 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/06/04-ua-minutes.html AllanJ 21:29:02 Intent for 2.7.6: Users with a disability may find that they cannot use a user agent with its current preference settings. This can occur when they are initially setting up the product and its default settings don't meet their needs, or after they, or another product or user, change an option from the setting they need. In these cases they may not be able to user the user agent's own user... 21:29:04 ...interface to adjust the settings, and so need a way to adjust or reset those options from outside the user agent. There are multiple ways this can be accomplished including: detecting and implementing the platform accessibility settings, providing an external file to modify, access to settings from a separate utility program, providing accessibility options in the installation program, or... 21:29:05 ...providing command-line switches to change the user agent's behavior. 21:30:25 Users with a disability may find that they cannot use a user agent with its current preference settings. This can occur when they are initially setting up the product and its default settings don't meet their needs, or after they, or another product or user, change an option from the setting they need. In these cases they may not be able to user the user agent's own user interface to adjust... 21:30:27 ...the settings, and so need a way to adjust or reset those options from outside the user agent. There are multiple ways this can be accomplished including: detecting and implementing the platform accessibility settings, providing an external file to modify, providing access to settings from a separate utility program, providing accessibility options in the installation program, or providing... 21:30:28 ...command-line switches to change the user agent's behavior. 21:31:10 Aosa is blind, and her web browser is incompatible with her screen reader unless she changes one of the browser's advanced settings. Because she cannot activate and use the appropriate dialog box until the setting is changed, she needs to start the browser using a dedicated command-line switch that changes the behavior. 21:31:42 Bintu is deaf and enjoys watching captioned videos. Since different video players may not have accessible settings, she sets her browser to always display captions, and hopes that the video player does not override the browser settings. In this way the options in one user agent (the embedded video player) are set outside its user interface by being set in another program (the hosting browser). 21:33:14 Bintu is deaf and enjoys watching captioned videos. Since different video players may not have accessible settings, she sets her browser to always display captions, knowing the video player will not override the browser settings. In this way the options in one user agent (the embedded video player) are set outside its user interface by being set in another program (the hosting browser). 21:33:47 Bintu is deaf and enjoys watching captioned videos. Since different video players may not have accessible settings, she sets her browser to always display captions, and hopes that the video player will respect the browser's request to to display captions. In this way the options in one user agent (the embedded video player) are set outside its user interface by being set in another program... 21:33:49 ...(the hosting browser). 21:34:28 intu is deaf and enjoys watching captioned videos. Since different video players may not have accessible settings, she sets her browser to always display captions, knowing the video player will respect the browser's request to to display captions. In this way the options in one user agent (the embedded video player) are set outside its user interface by being set in another program (the... 21:34:30 ...hosting browser). 21:35:39 Sasha requires high contrast to be able to discriminate the shape of letters. She has set the accessibility preferences on her mobile phone to use the high contrast mode. When she launches her mobile browser, it detects that she is using high contrast and adjusts the font and color settings for its user interface to reflect those settings. 21:37:03 Justin has an attention deficit disorder. He is setting up his new e-book reader and is interrupted while setting the default font colors, then finds he accidentally sets his background and font color to white on white. He cannot read the settings screen to recover his default settings, so he exits the reader and follows the instructions on the vendor's web site to edit the "settings.ini"... 21:37:05 ...file to adjust the colors. He then restarts the reader with the corrected color settings. 21:37:13 close Action-640 21:37:13 ACTION-640 Smith the IER for 2.7.6 closed 21:38:49 topic: Action-641 IER for 2.7.7 21:38:51 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2012AprJun/0046.html 21:44:25 close action-641 21:44:25 ACTION-641 Wordsmith 2.7.7 closed 21:44:44 gl: intent does not match the sc wording 21:49:20 all the preferences that apply to the compatible system will be transferred. 21:49:55 "The user can transfer preference settings" is vague enough that a UA could comply by transferring only two settings. 21:51:29 We could make it (a) all preference settings that are compatible with the target system, or (b) all accessibility preference settings that are compatible with the target system ("accessibility settings" being defined as those required to comply with this document. 21:52:41 Someone argued that since it's AAA we might as well make it broad. 21:53:28 Kelly points out support difficulties. 21:53:46 kf: IE manage addons, if I turn off yahoo toolbar, transfer settings. then 3 months later the user installs the toolbar it will be turned off after installation. 21:54:02 .... this will cause users issues 21:54:11 rrsagent, make minutes 21:54:11 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/06/04-ua-minutes.html AllanJ 21:54:32 kf: this is architected this way. 21:54:46 kf: is this is some setting or all settings 21:55:14 gl: suggested that it is AAA and go with all settings 21:56:19 "The user can transfer all compatible preference settings between computers. (Level AAA)"? 21:57:19 kp: in perfect world when the user install the toolbar, it should be flagged and tell the user...you have this feature disabled, do you want to turn it on 21:58:02 Kelly says should be UA settings. 21:58:10 ""The user can transfer all compatible user agent preference settings between computers. (Level AAA)" 21:58:53 resolved: change wording of 2.7.7 to be the above. 22:04:11 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2012AprJun/0046.html 22:05:16 Intent: Configuring a user agent is a complex... 22:07:32 Configuring a user agent may be a complex and time consuming task. Some users hire assistive technology professional trainers to do their system setup. Users who have spent time customizing accessibility preferences to meet their requirements need to easily migrate preference setting to another compatible device. Schools and universities also need to maintain accessibility settings across multiple machines. 22:08:57 greg has joined #ua 22:09:08 Admin has joined #ua 22:09:43 AllanJ has joined #ua 22:09:57 rrsagent, make minutes 22:09:57 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/06/04-ua-minutes.html AllanJ 22:12:15 Lori is a rehabilitation specialist who works with clients to customize their electronics and assistive technology to their needs. She sets up a new system for Ray, and saves a backup of the accessibility setting for Ray and for herself. She keeps electronic backup of her clients configurations that she can quickly email to them if they lose their settings. 22:12:36 Ray is blind and uses a screenreader on his desktop and the voice application on his phone. He sets up the web-based email application accessibility preferences on a mobile device. These preferences are automatically reflected in the desktop version of that web-based email application. 22:13:06 Trisha is a 4th grader with low vision. When she goes to different classrooms in her school, she carries a USB stick with her accessibility settings so she and her teachers do not have to use class-time customizing her computer. 22:25:13 close action-728 22:25:13 ACTION-728 Revise 2.1.7 Follow Text Keyboard Conventions to acknowledge not all view showing text should follow text area conventions. closed 22:28:14 rrsagent, make minutes 22:28:14 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/06/04-ua-minutes.html AllanJ 22:28:54 Zakim has left #ua