IRC log of xproc on 2012-05-31

Timestamps are in UTC.

13:57:19 [RRSAgent]
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logging to http://www.w3.org/2012/05/31-xproc-irc
13:57:22 [Norm]
zakim, this will be xproc
13:57:22 [Zakim]
ok, Norm; I see XML_PMWG()10:00AM scheduled to start in 3 minutes
13:57:25 [Norm]
zakim, passcode?
13:57:25 [Zakim]
the conference code is 97762 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), Norm
13:57:51 [Zakim]
XML_PMWG()10:00AM has now started
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+Norm
13:58:13 [Norm]
rrsagent, set logs world-visible
13:58:13 [Norm]
Meeting: XML Processing Model WG
13:58:13 [Norm]
Date: 31 May 2012
13:58:13 [Norm]
Agenda: http://www.w3.org/XML/XProc/2012/05/31-agenda
13:58:13 [Norm]
Meeting: 216
13:58:14 [Norm]
Chair: Norm
13:58:16 [Norm]
Scribe: Norm
13:58:18 [Norm]
ScribeNick: Norm
14:00:45 [Zakim]
+??P28
14:00:45 [Norm]
zakim, who's here?
14:00:46 [Zakim]
On the phone I see Norm, ??P28
14:00:46 [Zakim]
On IRC I see RRSAgent, Zakim, Norm, ht, Liam
14:00:46 [alexmilowski]
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14:01:34 [Zakim]
+Alex_Milows
14:02:33 [Zakim]
+Murray
14:03:04 [Norm]
Present: Norm, Alex, Murray, Henry
14:03:25 [Norm]
Regrets: Vojtech
14:05:08 [Norm]
Topic: Accept this agenda?
14:05:08 [Norm]
-> http://www.w3.org/XML/XProc/2012/05/31-agenda
14:05:12 [Norm]
Accepted.
14:05:16 [Norm]
Topic: Accept minutes from the previous meeting?
14:05:17 [Norm]
-> http://www.w3.org/XML/XProc/2012/05/24-minutes
14:05:21 [Norm]
Accepted.
14:05:34 [Norm]
Topic: Next meeting: telcon, 7 June 2012
14:05:49 [Norm]
Regrets from Vojtech
14:06:02 [Norm]
Topic: Review of open action items
14:06:27 [Norm]
No progress
14:06:30 [Zakim]
+ +1.805.560.aaaa
14:06:33 [Norm]
Regrets: Vojtech, Jim
14:06:40 [Norm]
Present: Norm, Alex, Murray, Henry, Cornelia
14:07:02 [Norm]
Topic: Use cases and requirements for V.next
14:07:10 [Norm]
-> http://www.w3.org/XML/XProc/docs/langreq-v2.html
14:07:36 [Norm]
Norm: Murray, what can we do to be helpful?
14:07:39 [Norm]
Murray: Good question.
14:07:57 [Norm]
...It's a big document and there's a lot here, but the organization may need work.
14:08:14 [Norm]
Murray: Let's start with variables and debugging on p:log.
14:08:30 [Norm]
...What information can we get out of the machine for debugging purposes.
14:08:53 [Norm]
Norm: I have an action to produce a pipeline that does that.
14:09:21 [Norm]
Murray: Ok, then let's talk about the resource manager
14:09:38 [Norm]
...I understand that Norm and Cornelia have a resource manager.
14:09:41 [Norm]
Norm: I do.
14:09:49 [Norm]
Cornelia: Vojtech would know.
14:11:56 [Norm]
Norm outlines his resource manager
14:12:24 [Norm]
Basically, it caches generated URIs and returns them in favor of any other source if they exist.
14:12:32 [Norm]
Henry: The Markup Pipeline had a two-part resource manager.
14:12:53 [Norm]
...One part is that the RM made available to steps the ability to cache infosets or other objects.
14:13:19 [Norm]
...We had compiled schemas, compiled stylesheets, and compiled pipelines all of which were the results of non-trivial amounts of processing and were available from the resource manager.
14:13:37 [Norm]
...The schema validator, for example, before it built a schema from sources, would check if the RM had the compiled schema.
14:13:56 [Norm]
...after a staleness check; Norm, you didn't mention that, we should come back to it.
14:14:21 [Norm]
...But that doesn't seem like something we need to standardize, it's just an implementation issue.
14:14:27 [Norm]
Henry: The other part was more like what Norm outlined.
14:14:39 [Norm]
s/Basically/Norm: Basically/
14:15:00 [Norm]
...It played a bigger role than what we've talked about today. It really did serve as a kind of local filesystem for pipelines.
14:15:27 [Norm]
...In particular, this turned out to be useful in steps that produce unordered sequences of documents.
14:15:55 [Norm]
...A resource manager might figure into the design for how steps that produce or consume unordered sequences coordinate on how the decide what's available.
14:16:13 [Norm]
...At the extreme, a RM gives us a very different processing model where steps are thought of as producing and consuming named resources.
14:16:22 [Norm]
...And other steps can use those resources without plumbing directly between steps.
14:16:48 [Norm]
...A simple way to put that is: what is the impact of having a resource manager on step dependency calculations.
14:17:06 [Norm]
ACTION: Henry to review Markup Pipeline documentation and report anything useful he finds
14:17:28 [Norm]
Alex: Is the XSLT import/include case relevant here?
14:17:32 [Norm]
Norm: Yes, I think that's exactly the same use case.
14:20:49 [Norm]
Some discussion of caching and resource managers and related issues
14:22:50 [Norm]
Henry: Have we reached agreement about whether we want to adopt the XSLT/XQuery invariant
14:23:27 [Norm]
...roughly speaking this says that any given XSLT or XQuery episode does gets on URIs exactly once and you always get the same document.
14:23:35 [Norm]
Norm: Yes, that's correct.
14:24:02 [Norm]
Norm: But in XProc we didn't want to make that requirement
14:26:54 [Cornelia]
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14:31:08 [Norm]
Some discussion of security
14:31:52 [Norm]
Henry: This is related to the RM and the ability to attach "out of band" information to documents.
14:32:08 [Norm]
...We've talked about some possible others, like serialization parameters
14:35:55 [Norm]
Topic: Any other business
14:36:07 [Norm]
Murray: Are we planning a f2f meeting?
14:36:17 [Norm]
Norm: Yes, at TPAC in Lyon, FR in November, I believe.
14:36:22 [Norm]
Adjourned
14:36:28 [Zakim]
-Murray
14:36:30 [Zakim]
- +1.805.560.aaaa
14:36:35 [Zakim]
-Alex_Milows
14:36:36 [Zakim]
-Norm
14:36:37 [Zakim]
-ht
14:36:38 [Zakim]
XML_PMWG()10:00AM has ended
14:36:38 [Zakim]
Attendees were Norm, ht, Alex_Milows, Murray, +1.805.560.aaaa
14:36:50 [Norm]
rrsagent, draft minutes
14:36:50 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/05/31-xproc-minutes.html Norm
16:03:56 [Zakim]
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