13:30:41 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #rd
13:30:42 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2012/05/30-rd-irc
13:30:43 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world
13:30:44 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #rd
13:30:45 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be 7394
13:30:45 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see WAI_RDWG()9:30AM scheduled to start now
13:30:46 <trackbot> Meeting: Research and Development Working Group Teleconference
13:30:46 <trackbot> Date: 30 May 2012
13:31:22 <shawn> zakim, who is on the phone?
13:31:22 <Zakim> WAI_RDWG()9:30AM has not yet started, shawn
13:31:23 <peter> Zakim, who
13:31:24 <Zakim> On IRC I see RRSAgent, shawn, peter, nonge, vivienne, shadi, trackbot
13:31:24 <Zakim> I don't understand 'who', peter
13:31:34 <shawn> zakim, mute me
13:31:34 <Zakim> sorry, shawn, I don't know what conference this is
13:31:39 <shawn> zakim, thsi is rdwg
13:31:39 <Zakim> sorry, shawn, I do not recognize a party named 'thsi'
13:31:40 <vivienne>  zakim, mute me
13:31:41 <Zakim> sorry, vivienne, I don't know what conference this is
13:31:41 <peter> Zakim, mute me
13:31:41 <Zakim> sorry, peter, I don't know what conference this is
13:31:43 <shawn> zakim, this is rdwg
13:31:43 <Zakim> ok, shawn; that matches WAI_RDWG()9:30AM
13:31:51 <shawn> zakim, who is on the phone?
13:31:51 <Zakim> On the phone I see ??P10, ??P11, Shawn
13:32:02 <shawn> zakim, mute me
13:32:02 <Zakim> Shawn should now be muted
13:32:05 <vivienne> zakim, ??P11 is me
13:32:05 <Zakim> +vivienne; got it
13:32:19 <vivienne> zakim, ??P10 is peter
13:32:19 <Zakim> +peter; got it
13:32:30 <shawn> zakim, mute peter
13:32:30 <Zakim> peter should now be muted
13:32:31 <vivienne> Peter, I think I got that right
13:32:32 <peter> zakim, mute me
13:32:32 <Zakim> peter was already muted, peter
13:32:35 <Zakim> +Shadi
13:32:36 <peter> am I muted?
13:32:47 <sharper> sharper has joined #rd
13:32:50 <vivienne> zakim, mute me
13:32:50 <Zakim> vivienne should now be muted
13:32:53 <sharper> zakim, agenda?
13:32:53 <Zakim> I see nothing on the agenda
13:32:55 <peter> zakime, unmute me
13:33:02 <peter> zakim, unmute me
13:33:02 <Zakim> peter should no longer be muted
13:33:08 <sharper> Chair: Harper_Simon
13:33:08 <sharper> Agenda+ Welcome & Logistics (Regrets, Agenda Requests, Comments) [sharper]
13:33:09 <sharper> Agenda+ Mobile Topic Update [sharper]
13:33:09 <sharper> Agenda+ Current W3C Note Status http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-wai-rd/2012May/0052.html [sharper]
13:33:09 <sharper> Agenda+ Editors for 'Easy to Read' http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-wai-rd/2012May/0053.html [sharper]
13:33:10 <sharper> Agenda+ 'Text Customization'  WAI GC Report/Comments [sharper]
13:33:11 <sharper> Agenda+ 'Text Customization' - Online Symposia | Pre-Call - http://www.w3.org/WAI/RD/wiki/Topic_3_pre-call [shawn]
13:33:13 <sharper> Agenda+ Timelines / Schedule to 30th June 2013 [sharper]
13:33:14 <peter> zakim, mute me
13:33:15 <Zakim> peter should now be muted
13:33:15 <sharper> Agenda+ Issues and Actions (Standing Item): https://www.w3.org/WAI/RD/tracker/ [sharper]
13:33:17 <sharper> Agenda+ Any Other Business (Standing Item) [sharper] 
13:33:26 <sharper> zakim, please clear the agenda
13:33:26 <Zakim> agenda cleared
13:33:29 <markel> markel has joined #rd
13:33:32 <sharper> trackbot, start meeting
13:33:35 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world
13:33:37 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be 7394
13:33:37 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see WAI_RDWG()9:30AM scheduled to start 3 minutes ago
13:33:38 <trackbot> Meeting: Research and Development Working Group Teleconference
13:33:38 <trackbot> Date: 30 May 2012
13:33:44 <sharper> Chair: Harper_Simon
13:33:44 <sharper> Agenda+ Welcome & Logistics (Regrets, Agenda Requests, Comments) [sharper]
13:33:44 <sharper> Agenda+ Mobile Topic Update [sharper]
13:33:45 <sharper> Agenda+ Current W3C Note Status http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-wai-rd/2012May/0052.html [sharper]
13:33:45 <sharper> Agenda+ Editors for 'Easy to Read' http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-wai-rd/2012May/0053.html [sharper]
13:33:45 <sharper> Agenda+ 'Text Customization'  WAI GC Report/Comments [sharper]
13:33:46 <sharper> Agenda+ 'Text Customization' - Online Symposia | Pre-Call - http://www.w3.org/WAI/RD/wiki/Topic_3_pre-call [shawn]
13:33:48 <sharper> Agenda+ Timelines / Schedule to 30th June 2013 [sharper]
13:33:50 <sharper> Agenda+ Issues and Actions (Standing Item): https://www.w3.org/WAI/RD/tracker/ [sharper]
13:33:52 <sharper> Agenda+ Any Other Business (Standing Item) [sharper] 
13:33:54 <sharper> zakim, take up item 1
13:33:54 <Zakim> agendum 1. "Welcome & Logistics (Regrets, Agenda Requests, Comments)" taken up [from sharper]
13:34:07 <sharper> regrets+  Yesilada_Yeliz
13:34:17 <sharper> regrets+ Brajnik_Giorgio
13:34:29 <sharper> regrets+ Mohamad_Yehya
13:34:31 <peter_> peter_ has joined #rd
13:34:38 <sharper> regrets+ Miesenberge_Klaus
13:34:46 <shawn> zakim, who is noisy?
13:34:46 <Zakim> sorry, shawn, I don't know what conference this is
13:34:46 <sharper> rrsagent, make logs public
13:34:47 <sharper> rrsagent, draft minutes
13:34:47 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/05/30-rd-minutes.html sharper
13:34:54 <shawn> zakim, this is rdwg
13:34:54 <Zakim> ok, shawn; that matches WAI_RDWG()9:30AM
13:34:59 <sharper> zakim, save agenda
13:35:02 <shawn> zakim, who is on the phone?
13:35:56 <shawn> zakim, are you there?
13:36:16 <shawn> ack me
13:36:50 <markel> test
13:36:58 <shawn> zakim, unmute me
13:37:14 <Zakim> ok, sharper, the agenda has been written to http://www.w3.org/2012/05/30-rd-agenda.rdf
13:37:16 <Zakim> On the phone I see peter (muted), vivienne (muted), Shawn (muted), Shadi, ??P14
13:37:16 <Zakim> I don't understand your question, shawn.
13:37:16 <Zakim> Shawn should no longer be muted
13:37:16 <Zakim> +??P15
13:37:47 <shadi> zakim, ??p14 is Markel
13:37:48 <Zakim> +Markel; got it
13:37:51 <sharper> zakim, ??P15 is sharper
13:37:51 <Zakim> +sharper; got it
13:37:58 <shadi> scribe: Shadi
13:38:13 <peter> zakim, mute me
13:38:13 <Zakim> peter was already muted, peter
13:38:13 <peter> Can you here music and people chatting?
13:38:13 <peter> (if so it's me)
13:38:21 <peter> great!
13:38:47 <markel> :-)
13:39:07 <markel> yes
13:39:07 <peter> yup
13:39:11 <vivienne> I can hear you Shadi
13:39:32 <shadi> zakim, mute me
13:39:32 <Zakim> Shadi should now be muted
13:39:44 <shadi> chair: Simon
13:39:48 <shadi> zakim, take up agendum 2
13:40:08 <christos> christos has joined #rd
13:40:11 <shawn> zakim, mute me
13:40:27 <Zakim> agendum 2. "Mobile Topic Update" taken up [from sharper]
13:40:29 <Zakim> Shawn was already muted, shawn
13:40:35 <shadi> SH: all reviewers should be able to see all the reviews
13:40:48 <shadi> ...sending email out to the scientific committee
13:40:49 <Zakim> +??P18
13:40:59 <shadi> ...to discuss what is to be accepted vs rejected
13:41:03 <christos> zakim, ??P18 is me
13:41:03 <Zakim> +christos; got it
13:41:11 <shadi> ...all probably acceptable except for one
13:41:20 <shadi> ...that does not really relate to mobile as such
13:41:35 <shadi> ...expecting choice by the "advocates"
13:41:50 <shadi> q+ to ask who the advocates are ... are these the scientific committee?
13:42:10 <shadi> ...moving along and should have comments from the scientific committee by next week
13:42:22 <christos> zakim, mute me
13:42:22 <Zakim> christos should now be muted
13:42:27 <shadi> ...also going to ask the scientific committee to provide comments or abstracts
13:42:36 <peter> ack me
13:43:16 <shadi> PT: anything we need to do?
13:43:26 <markel> *very noisy*
13:43:30 <shadi> SH: good idea to ask scientific committee for abstracts?
13:43:34 <peter> zakim, mute me
13:43:34 <Zakim> peter should now be muted
13:43:37 <shadi> q?
13:43:42 <shadi> ack me
13:43:43 <Zakim> shadi, you wanted to ask who the advocates are ... are these the scientific committee?
13:43:48 <vivienne> sounds fine to me, but I won't be able to at this time
13:44:11 <shadi> SAZ: who are the "advocates"?
13:44:17 <shadi> SH: the editors
13:44:28 <shadi> ...who are also the symposium chairs
13:45:35 <shadi> SAZ: good idea to get input from the scientific committee
13:45:43 <shadi> ...but wondering what we will do with the input
13:45:52 <shadi> ...expectation that we have to include them?
13:45:57 <shadi> ...or can we draw from these?
13:46:24 <shadi> SH: ask them to write paragraphs that we can include in the sorrounding text
13:46:25 <shadi> q+
13:46:31 <shadi> ...what do people think?
13:46:32 <peter> peter has joined #rd
13:46:35 <shadi> ack me
13:47:38 <markel> q+
13:47:40 <shadi> SAZ: maybe pose specific questions to the scientific committee
13:47:52 <shadi> ...like a mini questionnaire
13:48:06 <shadi> ...but make sure no expectation that we will publish as-is
13:48:13 <shadi> ...rather use as a resource
13:48:30 <shadi> SH: concerned about timing
13:48:34 <markel> q-
13:48:38 <shadi> ...rather open wording
13:48:49 <shadi> q+
13:49:02 <shadi> ...only 25 days left
13:49:19 <shawn> Dates from  http://www.w3.org/WAI/RD/wiki/Mobile_Topic_Timeline announcement of program 4 June; publication of accepted papers and registration opens 11 June
13:49:22 <shadi> ack me
13:49:24 <vivienne> who is on the scientific committee?
13:50:10 <sharper> Scientific Committee
13:50:10 <sharper>     Giorgio Brajnik (University of Udine)
13:50:11 <sharper>     Joshue O Connor (CFIT)
13:50:11 <sharper>     Vivienne Conway (Edith Cowan University)
13:50:11 <sharper>     Tiago Guerreiro (University of Lisbon)
13:50:12 <sharper>     Christos Kouroupetroglou (Altec)
13:50:12 <sharper>     Klaus Miesenberge (University of Linz)
13:50:15 <sharper>     Yehya Mohamad (Fraunhofer Gesellschaft)
13:50:17 <shawn> q+ to say scientific committee could be included in panel
13:50:17 <sharper>     Ignacio Marín Prendes (CTIC)
13:50:19 <sharper>     Henny Swan (BBC)
13:50:20 <sharper>     Shari Trewin (IBM T.J. Watson Research Center)
13:50:22 <sharper>     Markel Vigo (University of Manchester)
13:50:23 <vivienne> I like the Shadi's idea of asking the scientific committee for questions for the paper authors and additional questions following the presentations.
13:50:24 <sharper>     Shadi Abou-Zahra (W3C/ERCIM) 
13:50:28 <shadi> SAZ: maybe split what we need now vs after the symposium
13:50:54 <shadi> ...maybe ask the scientific committee for questions to pose to the panelists
13:51:12 <shawn> q+ to say good to get more input, so nice to have beforehand (not sure why 3 spaces)
13:51:15 <shawn> ack me
13:51:16 <Zakim> shawn, you wanted to say scientific committee could be included in panel and to say good to get more input, so nice to have beforehand (not sure why 3 spaces)
13:51:20 <shadi> ...then ask for further input after the symposium
13:51:32 <shadi> SH: can work out the questions easily
13:51:49 <shadi> SLH: good to have more input
13:52:01 <shadi> ...encourage scientific committee to provide more input
13:52:17 <shadi> ...agree not to automatically accept
13:52:24 <shadi> ...but likely will be useful input
13:52:41 <shadi> ...good to have as input into the material ahead of time
13:52:48 <shawn> zakim, mute me
13:52:49 <Zakim> Shawn should now be muted
13:52:49 <shadi> ...but also for the material afterwards
13:53:09 <peter_> peter_ has joined #rd
13:53:23 <shadi> SH: some may want to submit if we ask them to
13:53:34 <shadi> ...will look at getting further input
13:53:36 <shadi> q?
13:53:54 <peter_> peter_ has joined #rd
13:53:58 <shadi> ...everyone on the scientific committee will now get an email asking them for action
13:54:10 <shadi> zakim, take up agendum 3
13:54:10 <Zakim> agendum 3. "Current W3C Note Status http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-wai-rd/2012May/0052.html" taken up [from sharper]
13:54:31 <shadi> http://www.w3.org/WAI/RD/2011/metrics/note/ED-metrics-20120530.html
13:54:44 <shadi> SH: got positive feedback for publication
13:54:50 <shadi> ...no objections received
13:55:00 <shadi> ...people happy with changes discussed
13:55:12 <shadi> q+
13:55:25 <shadi> ...nobody requested re-review
13:56:26 <peter> peter has joined #rd
13:57:27 <shadi> SAZ: can only move "how to cite this document" to the "introduction" section
13:57:35 <shadi> ...is that ok fr the editors and the group?
13:57:46 <shadi> SH: fine by me
13:57:54 <shadi> MV: would wish further up but fine by me
13:57:54 <vivienne> okay with me
13:58:07 <peter> peter has joined #rd
13:58:23 <shawn> q+
13:58:28 <shawn> ack me
13:58:29 <shadi> q-
13:58:45 <shadi> SLH: don't like it in the introduction
13:58:58 <shadi> ...conceptually belongs in the abstract or near there
13:59:05 <shadi> ...now there are limitations
13:59:09 <peter_> peter_ has joined #rd
14:01:35 <shadi> ...can look into approval for exception
14:01:48 <shadi> SAZ: could look into that
14:01:52 <shawn> q+ to suggest at top one line with pointer to details
14:02:04 <shawn> ack me
14:02:08 <Zakim> shawn, you wanted to suggest at top one line with pointer to details
14:02:11 <shadi> ...people happy with this to be at discretion of SAZ and SLH?
14:02:29 <shadi> SH: happy with that but should be as far above as possible
14:02:53 <shadi> SLH: what if we have the one line with a hyperlink into the section of the page
14:03:06 <shadi> SH: happy with whatever you can do within the W3C format
14:03:18 <shadi> ...just would prefer as far to the top as possible
14:03:53 <shadi> MV: also happy as long as the bibtex link is prominent
14:04:06 <shawn> ACTION: Shawn - for Note see about getting citation at the top in doc meta data - maybe one line with link to How to cite this document details lower
14:04:07 <trackbot> Created ACTION-26 - - for Note see about getting citation at the top in doc meta data - maybe one line with link to How to cite this document details lower [on Shawn Henry - due 2012-06-06].
14:04:27 <shadi> zakim, take up agendum 4
14:04:27 <Zakim> agendum 4. "Editors for 'Easy to Read' http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-wai-rd/2012May/0053.html" taken up [from sharper]
14:04:34 <shawn> agenda?
14:04:48 <shadi> zakim, close agendum 1
14:04:58 <peter> peter has joined #rd
14:04:59 <Zakim> agendum 1, Welcome & Logistics (Regrets, Agenda Requests, Comments), closed
14:05:01 <shadi> SH: asked for editors for Easy-to-Read
14:05:04 <Zakim> I see 8 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
14:05:06 <Zakim> 2. Mobile Topic Update [from sharper]
14:05:09 <shadi> ...Klaus and Andrea volunteered
14:05:24 <shadi> ...would be fourth topic
14:05:40 <shadi> q+
14:05:41 <vivienne> find with me
14:05:46 <shadi> ack me
14:06:16 <shawn> saz: klaus advocating for context between easy-to-read and text customization
14:06:42 <peter> peter has joined #rd
14:06:57 <shadi> SAZ: not necessarily fourth topic
14:07:11 <shadi> SH: initially wanted them as one topic
14:07:21 <shadi> ...then went back to separated topics
14:07:30 <shadi> ...but not happy to revert that again
14:07:42 <shadi> ...will talk more with the Coordination Group
14:07:56 <shadi> ...but last week we resolved to have two topics
14:08:23 <shadi> ...would like to keep until have more information to do otherwise
14:08:25 <shadi> q+
14:08:35 <shadi> ack me
14:09:17 <shawn> saz: agree discomfort with back and forth. think we haven't had deep discussion. unfortunately Klaus have been unavailable.
14:09:19 <shadi> ack me
14:09:46 <markel> q+
14:09:58 <shadi> SH: understand that issue and need the input to make more informed decision
14:10:18 <shadi> MV: a little confused with all this
14:10:28 <shadi> ...why do we need to talk to the coordination group?
14:10:48 <shadi> SH: coordination group is useful to inform about what we do
14:10:54 <shadi> ...and consider their input
14:10:56 <shadi> q+
14:10:59 <shadi> ack m
14:11:14 <shadi> ...do not control individual decisions
14:11:32 <shadi> MV: what are the concerns that they may have?
14:11:40 <shadi> SH: no idea, may not be concerns
14:11:51 <shadi> ...want to make sure i get their input
14:12:37 <shadi> ...want to avoid the issue we had with the mobile call
14:12:58 <shadi> ...just to make sure that everything runs smoothly
14:13:00 <shadi> ack me
14:14:32 <shawn> q+ to note (for the record) that after more discussion, I do see some advantage of combining topics (whereas I was opposed to it before). I see pros & cons for each -- having them as totally separate symposiums versus different tracks in a directly related event
14:15:00 <shawn> SAZ: ... @@ integrated more RDWG with WAI through Coordination Group ...
14:15:07 <markel> thanks for the clarifications - I was little bit confused with the role played by the Coordination Group. 
14:15:16 <shawn> ... get RDWG strategic group within WAI to help direct and drive some of WAI work
14:16:34 <shadi> SH: we know what the group has currently decided
14:16:48 <shadi> ...let's now see what Klaus and the Coordination Group have to say
14:16:53 <shawn> ack me
14:16:53 <Zakim> shawn, you wanted to note (for the record) that after more discussion, I do see some advantage of combining topics (whereas I was opposed to it before). I see pros & cons for each
14:16:56 <Zakim> ... -- having them as totally separate symposiums versus different tracks in a directly related event
14:17:00 <shadi> zakim, take up next
14:17:00 <Zakim> agendum 2. "Mobile Topic Update" taken up [from sharper]
14:17:10 <shadi> zakim, take up agendum 5
14:17:10 <Zakim> agendum 5. "'Text Customization'  WAI GC Report/Comments" taken up [from sharper]
14:17:37 <peter_> peter_ has joined #rd
14:17:48 <shawn> http://www.w3.org/WAI/RD/wiki/Topic_3_pre-call
14:17:52 <shadi> zakim, take up agendum 6
14:17:52 <Zakim> agendum 6. "'Text Customization' - Online Symposia | Pre-Call - http://www.w3.org/WAI/RD/wiki/Topic_3_pre-call" taken up [from shawn via sharper]
14:18:14 <shadi> SLH: after further discussion see that there may be pros to have a common call for text customization and easy-to-read
14:18:35 <shadi> ...have pre-call ready except how it will relate to other related topics
14:19:02 <shadi> SH: having relationship between them is a reasonable thing to do
14:19:19 <shadi> ...unsure how it should be carried out though
14:19:25 <shadi> ...one or two separare calls
14:19:34 <shadi> ...is it one note or two?
14:19:54 <shadi> ...in favor of your original idea of having two calls but linked
14:20:05 <shawn> q+ to say can decide WG Note one or two later -- but other decisions need to be made sooner
14:20:11 <peter> peter has joined #rd
14:20:18 <shadi> ...with two notes and two papers
14:20:27 <shadi> q+
14:20:29 <shawn> ack me
14:20:29 <Zakim> shawn, you wanted to say can decide WG Note one or two later -- but other decisions need to be made sooner
14:20:31 <shadi> ack shawn
14:20:53 <shadi> SLH: decision about one or two notes could come later
14:21:05 <shadi> ...how to do the call needs to be decided now
14:21:26 <shadi> ...could leave deicision on notes open if calls are in close proximity
14:21:32 <markel> q+
14:21:39 <shadi> q- later
14:21:51 <shadi> ack markel
14:22:06 <shawn> s/could leave deicision on notes open if calls are in close proximity/could leave deicision on notes open if symposiums are in close proximity timewise/
14:22:32 <shadi> MV: was initially reluctant about two separate calls
14:22:41 <peter> peter has joined #rd
14:22:46 <shadi> ...then was convinced with the idea of separated calls
14:22:54 <shadi> ...with two notes
14:22:58 <peter> q+
14:23:05 <shadi> ...would show productivity and usefulness of the group
14:23:07 <shadi> ack me
14:24:24 <shawn> saz: one idea - if do it totally separately, then we use both topics 3 & 4 in a related area, then are not working in other areas
14:25:09 <shawn> markel: ... more output from RDWG if separate
14:25:18 <shadi> SAZ: have a bottle neck on editors
14:25:28 <shadi> ...spreading out helps recruit editors
14:25:32 <shawn> ack p
14:25:34 <shadi> zakim, mute me
14:25:34 <Zakim> Shadi should now be muted
14:26:26 <shadi> PT: HTML5 topics becoming interesting
14:26:30 <shawn> s/ markel: ... more output from RDWG if separate/ /
14:26:38 <shadi> ...could start planning future future topics
14:26:48 <shadi> SH: good point
14:26:57 <shawn> zakim, mute peter
14:26:57 <Zakim> peter should now be muted
14:27:24 <shadi> ...try to get the next 6 topics pre-organized
14:27:37 <shadi> ...developer-led topics would be useful
14:27:54 <shadi> ...may need to recruit editors
14:29:01 <vivienne> okay, bye now.
14:29:01 <markel> bye all!!
14:29:07 <vivienne> - vivienne
14:29:08 <christos> goodbye...
14:29:09 <sharper> bye!
14:29:09 <vivienne> vivienne has left #rd
14:29:14 <Zakim> -vivienne
14:29:15 <Zakim> -Shawn
14:29:15 <Zakim> -Markel
14:29:15 <Zakim> -Shadi
14:29:21 <Zakim> -peter
14:29:25 <Zakim> -sharper
14:29:31 <sharper> sharper has left #rd
14:30:09 <Zakim> -christos
14:30:10 <Zakim> WAI_RDWG()9:30AM has ended
14:30:10 <Zakim> Attendees were Shawn, vivienne, peter, Shadi, Markel, sharper, christos
15:21:47 <shadi> trackbot, end meeting
15:21:47 <trackbot> Zakim, list attendees
15:21:47 <Zakim> sorry, trackbot, I don't know what conference this is
15:21:55 <trackbot> RRSAgent, please draft minutes
15:21:55 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/05/30-rd-minutes.html trackbot
15:21:56 <trackbot> RRSAgent, bye
15:21:56 <RRSAgent> I see 1 open action item saved in http://www.w3.org/2012/05/30-rd-actions.rdf :
15:21:56 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Shawn - for Note see about getting citation at the top in doc meta data - maybe one line with link to How to cite this document details lower [1]
15:21:56 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2012/05/30-rd-irc#T14-04-06