IRC log of xproc on 2012-05-24

Timestamps are in UTC.

13:58:20 [RRSAgent]
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logging to
13:58:23 [Zakim]
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13:58:27 [Norm]
zakim, this will be xproc
13:58:27 [Zakim]
ok, Norm; I see XML_PMWG()10:00AM scheduled to start in 2 minutes
13:58:32 [Norm]
zakim, passcode?
13:58:32 [Zakim]
the conference code is 97762 (tel:+1.617.761.6200, Norm
13:59:47 [Zakim]
XML_PMWG()10:00AM has now started
13:59:56 [Zakim]
14:00:08 [Zakim]
14:00:10 [jfuller]
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14:00:29 [Norm]
zakim, vivienne is Jim
14:00:30 [Vojtech]
Vojtech has joined #xproc
14:00:30 [Zakim]
+Jim; got it
14:00:42 [Norm]
zakim, Jim is jfuller
14:00:42 [Zakim]
+jfuller; got it
14:00:59 [alexmilowski]
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14:01:08 [Norm]
rrsagent, set logs world-visible
14:01:08 [Norm]
Meeting: XML Processing Model WG
14:01:08 [Norm]
Date: 24 May 2012
14:01:08 [Norm]
14:01:08 [Norm]
Meeting: 215
14:01:08 [Norm]
Chair: Norm
14:01:10 [Norm]
Scribe: Norm
14:01:12 [Norm]
ScribeNick: Norm
14:01:25 [Zakim]
14:01:32 [Vojtech]
zakim, jeroen is me
14:01:32 [Zakim]
+Vojtech; got it
14:01:43 [ht]
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14:02:09 [Zakim]
14:02:39 [Zakim]
+ +1.805.452.aaaa
14:02:44 [Zakim]
14:03:01 [Norm]
zakim, aaaa is cornelia
14:03:01 [Zakim]
+cornelia; got it
14:03:07 [Norm]
zakim, who's here?
14:03:07 [Zakim]
On the phone I see jfuller, Norm, Vojtech, Alex_Milows, cornelia, ht
14:03:08 [Zakim]
On IRC I see ht, alexmilowski, Vojtech, jfuller, Zakim, RRSAgent, Norm, Liam
14:03:32 [Norm]
Present: Jim, Norm, Vojtech, Alex, Cornelia, Henry
14:03:44 [Norm]
Topic: Accept this agenda?
14:03:44 [Norm]
14:03:50 [Norm]
14:03:55 [Norm]
Topic: Accept minutes from the previous meeting?
14:03:55 [Norm]
14:04:01 [Norm]
14:04:07 [Norm]
Topic: Next meeting: telcon, 31 May 2012
14:04:21 [Norm]
Vojtech gives regrets for two weeks.
14:04:51 [Norm]
Topic: Review of action items
14:05:10 [Norm]
Present: Jim, Norm, Vojtech, Alex, Cornelia, Henry, Murray
14:05:21 [Zakim]
+ +1.778.440.aabb
14:06:11 [MoZ]
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14:06:27 [MoZ]
Zakim, who is here ?
14:06:50 [Zakim]
On the phone I see jfuller, Norm, Vojtech, Alex_Milows, cornelia, ht, +1.778.440.aabb
14:06:50 [Norm]
zakim, aabb is Murray
14:07:02 [Zakim]
+Murray; got it
14:07:06 [Zakim]
On IRC I see MoZ, ht, alexmilowski, Vojtech, jfuller, Zakim, RRSAgent, Norm, Liam
14:08:07 [Norm]
Some discussion of the charter. It's now out for AC vote.
14:09:15 [Liam]
[note, it was changed very slightly since Norm saw it, but I think not significantly (e.g. meeting frequency clarified), but comments can be made in the AC review.]
14:10:38 [Norm]
A-206-02: Continued
14:10:38 [Norm]
A-207-02: Completed, gone out to AC for review
14:10:38 [Norm]
A-209-01: Continued
14:10:38 [Norm]
A-210-01: Continued
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A-210-02: Continued
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A-210-03: Continued
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A-210-04: Continued
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A-211-01: Continued
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A-213-01: Completed
14:10:47 [Norm]
A-213-02: Completed
14:10:49 [Norm]
A-213-03: Completed
14:10:51 [Norm]
A-213-04: Completed
14:10:53 [Norm]
A-213-05: Completed
14:10:55 [Norm]
A-213-06: Completed
14:10:57 [Norm]
A-213-07: Completed
14:11:00 [Norm]
A-213-08: Completed
14:11:01 [Norm]
A-214-01: Completed
14:11:03 [Norm]
A-214-02: Completed
14:11:05 [Norm]
Norm: Murray, I assume you'll insert them in the document.
14:11:07 [Norm]
Murray: Yes, of course.
14:11:23 [Norm]
A-213-04 is 5.27, still open on Alex.
14:11:49 [Norm]
Topic: Sync/catchup/agenda review
14:12:16 [Norm]
Norm: Anyone have anything to add?
14:13:07 [Norm]
Cornelia: I was able to find the editor's draft of the use cases/requirements but only in email?
14:13:15 [Norm]
Norm: Alex, is it checked in somewhere?
14:13:37 [Norm]
ACTION: Norm to make sure everyone knows the stable URI for the use cases/requirements document
14:13:44 [Norm]
14:14:15 [Norm]
Henry: Once it's anywhere under the XProc CVS, it's available.
14:14:39 [Norm]
Murray: Do you want me to mail a draft?
14:14:52 [Norm]
Norm: No, let's get it checked in and send out the pointer to the stable pointer.
14:15:27 [Norm]
Cornelia: There were use cases and requirements marked as satisified, are those old ones?
14:15:50 [Norm]
Murray: The use cases/requirements document is the 1.0 version supplemented with original material.
14:16:00 [Norm]
...What we've been doing is improving those use cases.
14:16:06 [Norm]
...And assuring ourselves that we've satisfied them.
14:16:13 [jfuller]
link to old use case document
14:16:13 [jfuller]
14:16:15 [Norm]
...But we're still detailing them.
14:16:31 [Norm]
Cornelia: With the current version of XProc?
14:16:38 [Norm]
Murray: Yes.
14:18:31 [Norm]
Norm attempts to explain the motivation for repeating the use cases: to provide real pipelines and to look at how they might be simplified for
14:18:47 [Norm]
Murray: We've also got DAISY requirements that we can incorporate in support of the work we've done.
14:19:08 [Norm]
Topic: Updating schemas and library.xpl
14:19:15 [Norm]
[SCRIBE: find pointer to email]
14:20:19 [Norm]
Norm describes the problem of having "out-of-date" schemas and XPL wrt the new template note.
14:20:43 [Norm]
Henry: We should have put those documents in date space at publication time. Then we could have a dated version that never changes and an undated version that you can keep up-to-date.
14:21:13 [Norm]
ACTION: Henry to stage the dated and undated versions of updated schemas and library.xpl
14:21:39 [Norm]
Topic: Naming of compound steps
14:22:36 [Norm]
Norm: Mohamed summarizes the issue here:
14:22:38 [Norm]
14:23:52 [Norm]
Norm: The original problem was that the XSD for p:catch doesn't allow a name attribute, but it must be allowed to have one.
14:24:28 [MoZ]
sure, but do we allow to have one on p:when and p:otherwise
14:24:41 [Norm]
ACTION: Norm to clarify with Mohamed to see if he thinks there's really a problem here.
14:25:00 [Norm]
Norm: Does anyone disagree that the XSD for XProc has bug?
14:25:03 [Norm]
None heard
14:25:31 [MoZ]
Basically my proposal is to fix the XSD
14:25:58 [Norm]
ACTION: Henry to fix the bug where p:catch doesn't allow a name.
14:26:01 [MoZ]
but the real question is whether we need to allow name on p:when and p:otherwise
14:26:04 [Norm]
s/name./name in the XSD./
14:26:30 [Norm]
MoZ, let's take that offline.
14:26:38 [MoZ]
Norm, fine
14:26:55 [Norm]
Topic: Extending p:log
14:27:22 [Norm]
14:28:07 [Norm]
Norm summarizes.
14:28:16 [jfuller]
sounds good to me
14:29:39 [cornelia]
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14:30:03 [Norm]
Murray: What about variables?
14:30:13 [Norm]
Norm: I think Mohamed suggested we use a template style.
14:30:32 [Norm]
Vojtech: But how can that work? Where would you set the parameters?
14:30:37 [Norm]
Norm: Yeah. Maybe it doesn't work.
14:31:09 [Norm]
Vojtech: Why can't we just use ordinary XPath expressions?
14:31:25 [Norm]
Norm: So maybe you use the template style but you can't have any variable references because there are no parameters
14:31:32 [Norm]
Murray: I guess I don't understand how this template thing would work.
14:31:45 [Norm]
ACTION: Norm to consider the template idea and provide an example of how that might look
14:32:07 [Norm]
Alex: I think the next thing you do with this thing would be to come up with some motivating examples.
14:32:35 [Norm]
...One of the things I have to do in other ways is to figure out what values variables have. It's not just the document, it's also the other bits that are coming into the step.
14:33:03 [Norm]
Vojtech: I see two situations. If you put p:log in p:group then you can have variables or options that are inscope and you could say that those are visible in the log.
14:33:18 [Norm]
...But on the top-level, there's probably no way to refer to variables.
14:33:23 [Norm]
...Though maybe pipeline options.
14:33:32 [Norm]
Alex: I'm assuimg there are limitations. You don't want to get into circularity.
14:33:50 [Norm]
...I think we need a short list at least of things that we expect to work.
14:34:34 [Norm]
Henry: Can I come back on this question of template?
14:35:27 [Norm]
...These aren't common, garden variety steps. These are names in p:; we can make their content be evaluated in any context we choose.
14:36:05 [Norm]
...So I don't see any a priori reason why we can't say that p:assert with a body is effectively shorthand for a p:template with a connection to a template.
14:37:08 [Norm]
Henry: I don't think the workaround Mohamed suggested is necessary, we can define the body to be evaluated as we wish.