IRC log of ua on 2012-05-24

Timestamps are in UTC.

16:55:04 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #ua
16:55:04 [RRSAgent]
logging to http://www.w3.org/2012/05/24-ua-irc
16:55:06 [trackbot]
RRSAgent, make logs public
16:55:06 [Zakim]
Zakim has joined #ua
16:55:08 [trackbot]
Zakim, this will be WAI_UAWG
16:55:08 [Zakim]
ok, trackbot; I see WAI_UAWG()1:00PM scheduled to start in 5 minutes
16:55:09 [trackbot]
Meeting: User Agent Accessibility Guidelines Working Group Teleconference
16:55:09 [trackbot]
Date: 24 May 2012
16:58:07 [kford]
Agenda+ Face to Face planning, go over proposed agenda
16:58:09 [kford]
Agenda+ finalize 1.7
16:58:10 [kford]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2012AprJun/0040.html,
16:58:12 [kford]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2012AprJun/0042.html
16:58:13 [kford]
Agenda+ Action-631 UAAG:next?
16:58:15 [kford]
Agenda+ https://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/tracker/actions/631
16:58:16 [kford]
Agenda+ 1.11.1 & 1.11.2 Action-467 Jim (revise for proposal)
16:58:18 [kford]
Action-467 https://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/tracker/actions/467
16:58:19 [kford]
Agenda+ review any proposals sent to list
16:58:21 [kford]
Agenda+ Close down principle 1
16:58:43 [kford]
rrsagent, make minutes
16:58:43 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/05/24-ua-minutes.html kford
16:59:59 [sharper]
sharper has joined #ua
17:01:03 [Zakim]
WAI_UAWG()1:00PM has now started
17:01:10 [Zakim]
+??P13
17:01:12 [sharper]
zakim, ??P13 is sharper
17:01:12 [Zakim]
+sharper; got it
17:01:29 [jeanne]
Latest Editor's Draft -> http://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/2012/ED-UAAG20-20120517/
17:02:52 [KimPatch]
KimPatch has joined #ua
17:02:56 [Zakim]
+Kim_Patch
17:02:58 [Zakim]
+Jeanne
17:03:05 [Zakim]
+Greg_Lowney
17:03:15 [Zakim]
+[Microsoft]
17:03:25 [kford]
zakim, microsoft is kford
17:03:25 [Zakim]
+kford; got it
17:04:02 [Greg]
Greg has joined #ua
17:04:19 [kford]
zakim, make minutes
17:04:19 [Zakim]
I don't understand 'make minutes', kford
17:04:26 [kford]
rrsagent, make minutes
17:04:26 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/05/24-ua-minutes.html kford
17:04:33 [kford]
zakim, agenda?
17:04:33 [Zakim]
I see 7 items remaining on the agenda:
17:04:34 [Zakim]
1. Face to Face planning, go over proposed agenda [from kford]
17:04:34 [Zakim]
2. finalize 1.7 [from kford]
17:04:34 [Zakim]
3. Action-631 UAAG:next? [from kford]
17:04:34 [Zakim]
4. https://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/tracker/actions/631 [from kford]
17:04:34 [Zakim]
5. 1.11.1 & 1.11.2 Action-467 Jim (revise for proposal) [from kford]
17:04:36 [Zakim]
6. review any proposals sent to list [from kford]
17:04:39 [Zakim]
7. Close down principle 1 [from kford]
17:12:02 [kford]
zakim, take up item 1
17:12:02 [Zakim]
agendum 1. "Face to Face planning, go over proposed agenda" taken up [from kford]
17:12:45 [sharper]
scribe: Harper_Simon
17:12:45 [sharper]
ScribeNick: sharper
17:13:29 [sharper]
KF: F2F in less than 2 weeks - trying to get the document done -solid at IDing actions which are left
17:14:39 [sharper]
KF: Current think - work - 1.5h divide actions and finish for each section of the document - assignment doesn't matter - 45 minutes to integrate and resolve. iterate this.
17:15:16 [sharper]
KF: Goal is to get these done.
17:16:01 [sharper]
JS: Cycle back and look at the levels for any section that is done.
17:16:27 [sharper]
KF: write, review, set level - lets get this done before we go home.
17:16:54 [sharper]
KF: 08:30 start - show up 08:00-08:30
17:17:31 [kford]
zakim, close item 1
17:17:31 [Zakim]
agendum 1, Face to Face planning, go over proposed agenda, closed
17:17:32 [Zakim]
I see 6 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
17:17:32 [Zakim]
2. finalize 1.7 [from kford]
17:18:00 [kford]
zakim, take up item 2
17:18:00 [Zakim]
agendum 2. "finalize 1.7" taken up [from kford]
17:18:31 [sharper]
zakim, close item 1
17:18:31 [Zakim]
agendum 1, Face to Face planning, go over proposed agenda, closed
17:18:31 [sharper]
zakim, take up item 2
17:18:32 [Zakim]
I see 6 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
17:18:32 [Zakim]
2. finalize 1.7 [from kford]
17:18:32 [Zakim]
agendum 2. "finalize 1.7" taken up [from kford]
17:18:48 [sharper]
Agenda+ finalize 1.7
17:18:48 [sharper]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2012AprJun/0040.html,
17:18:49 [sharper]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2012AprJun/0042.html
17:19:04 [sharper]
zakim, drop item 8
17:19:04 [Zakim]
agendum 8, finalize 1.7, dropped
17:19:12 [sharper]
zakim, take up item 2
17:19:12 [Zakim]
agendum 2. "finalize 1.7" taken up [from kford]
17:20:12 [jeanne]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2012AprJun/0073.html
17:22:08 [sharper]
JS: repeats the text as per the e-mail link above
17:23:09 [jeanne]
1.7.2 Apply User Stylesheets:
17:23:09 [jeanne]
The user can turn on the use of user stylesheets (Level A)
17:23:09 [jeanne]
(a) all pages on specified web sites, or
17:23:09 [jeanne]
(b) all pages.
17:24:35 [sharper]
JS: clarifies that all pages on specific website can be turned on, GL: confirms this is OK
17:25:04 [KimPatch]
KimPatch has joined #ua
17:25:11 [jeanne]
The user can apply user stylesheets.
17:25:28 [sharper]
GL/JS: general wordsmithing
17:26:54 [jeanne]
The user can apply or disable user stylesheets
17:28:34 [sharper]
GL: can have multiple user style sheets - can clarify in the intent
17:29:00 [sharper]
GL: need to specify different CSS for different websites
17:29:24 [sharper]
GL: is point (a) useful at all in this case - is this really good enough.
17:30:23 [sharper]
GL: turning on and off user style sheets may be cumbersome
17:30:30 [sharper]
JS: agreed, but not sure this is level A
17:31:12 [sharper]
JS: which more important - a at A, or different and a different level
17:33:11 [sharper]
JS: lets make sure this is in the intent
17:34:25 [sharper]
JS/GL: running through scenarios of use
17:39:24 [Zakim]
-kford
17:40:10 [Zakim]
+[Microsoft]
17:42:06 [sharper]
KF: apply or disable = enable or disable?
17:43:15 [jeanne]
The user can enable or disable user stylesheets for (Level A)
17:43:52 [sharper]
The user can enable or disable the use of user stylesheets (Level A): (a) all pages on specified web sites; or (b) all pages.
17:44:18 [kford]
zakim, close item 2
17:44:18 [Zakim]
agendum 2, finalize 1.7, closed
17:44:19 [Zakim]
I see 5 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
17:44:19 [Zakim]
3. Action-631 UAAG:next? [from kford]
17:44:29 [KimPatch]
off for about 10
17:44:34 [sharper]
RESOLVED: Level 1.7.2 as suggested by above , but add to intent to recommend different stylesheets load for different website.
17:44:44 [sharper]
he user can enable or disable user stylesheets for (Level A)
17:44:52 [sharper]
s/he/the
17:45:33 [sharper]
JS: the IER for these are combined
17:45:55 [sharper]
http://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/2012/ED-IMPLEMENTING-UAAG20-20120517/
17:46:35 [sharper]
Intent of Success Criterion 1.7.1, 1.7.2 & 1.7.3: are combined
17:48:07 [jeanne]
Since different web sites may require different style changes to be readable, it is recommended that user agents provide a feature that lets the user specify which stylesheet should be automatically applied to different web pages as they are loaded.
17:48:11 [Greg]
Something like "It is recommended that user agents provide a feature that lets the user specify which stylesheets should be automatically applied to different web pages as they are loaded (e.g. based on a list of domain names or URL templates)."
17:48:13 [sharper]
GL: adding - it is recommended that UAs provide a feature that lets the user specify which CSS should be automatically applied to different web pages as they are loaded - eg based on a list of domains or URL templates.
17:49:52 [jeanne]
1.7.3 Author Style Sheets:
17:49:52 [jeanne]
The user can turn off the use of author stylesheet on the current page (Level A)
17:51:43 [sharper]
JS: reads JA: remove the current a and b bullets
17:51:56 [jeanne]
The user can turn off the use of author stylesheets on the current page (Level A)
17:51:59 [sharper]
JS: stylesheet should be plural
17:52:17 [Greg]
I'd prefer "The user can turn off the use of author stylesheets on the current page or the current viewport".
17:53:49 [Greg]
Either globally or for the current viewport.
17:54:51 [sharper]
RESOLVED: The user can disable the use of author stylesheet on the current page (Level A)
17:55:24 [sharper]
s/stylesheet/stylesheets
17:56:19 [sharper]
topic 1.7.4 Save copies of stylesheets
17:56:45 [sharper]
current: The user can save copies of the stylesheets referenced by the current page, so that they can edit and load them as user (Level AA)
17:57:33 [sharper]
JS channels JA: proposes AAA - no current functionality - and only some UAs can do this with an extension.
17:58:09 [sharper]
JS: thinks it's OK at AA - KP agrees
17:58:38 [sharper]
GL: eg in FF puts copies of all CSS into a folder - upon save
17:59:21 [sharper]
SH: safari - does this via a WebArchive
18:00:02 [jeanne]
JS: I remember Wayne saying that Safari had the best interface for stylesheet management
18:01:14 [sharper]
RESOLVED: Stay at AA
18:04:40 [sharper]
Links to stylish, mouseless browsing, greasemonkey etc
18:06:55 [Greg]
Issue: Add SC recommending feature to automatically apply different scripts to different pages when they load (e.g. Greasemonkey). Product-2
18:06:55 [trackbot]
Created ISSUE-92 - Add SC recommending feature to automatically apply different scripts to different pages when they load (e.g. Greasemonkey). Product-2 ; please complete additional details at http://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/tracker/issues/92/edit .
18:07:55 [kford]
kford has joined #ua
18:08:05 [kford]
rrsagent, make minutes
18:08:05 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/05/24-ua-minutes.html kford
18:08:43 [sharper]
JS: No IER for 1.7.4
18:10:08 [kford]
Action: KFord to write IER for 1.7.4
18:10:08 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-731 - Write IER for 1.7.4 [on Kelly Ford - due 2012-05-31].
18:10:10 [sharper]
Action: kford to write IER for 1.7.4
18:10:11 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-732 - Write IER for 1.7.4 [on Kelly Ford - due 2012-05-31].
18:10:27 [kford]
zakim, close action 732
18:10:27 [Zakim]
I don't understand 'close action 732', kford
18:10:51 [kford]
action-732 close
18:11:09 [jeanne]
close action-732
18:11:09 [trackbot]
ACTION-732 Write IER for 1.7.4 closed
18:11:58 [kford]
zakim, close item 2
18:11:58 [Zakim]
agendum 2, finalize 1.7, closed
18:11:59 [Zakim]
I see 5 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
18:11:59 [Zakim]
3. Action-631 UAAG:next? [from kford]
18:12:16 [kford]
zakim, agenda?
18:12:16 [Zakim]
I see 5 items remaining on the agenda:
18:12:18 [Zakim]
3. Action-631 UAAG:next? [from kford]
18:12:18 [Zakim]
4. https://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/tracker/actions/631 [from kford]
18:12:18 [Zakim]
5. 1.11.1 & 1.11.2 Action-467 Jim (revise for proposal) [from kford]
18:12:18 [Zakim]
6. review any proposals sent to list [from kford]
18:12:18 [Zakim]
7. Close down principle 1 [from kford]
18:13:12 [sharper]
zakim, close item 2
18:13:12 [Zakim]
agendum 2, finalize 1.7, closed
18:13:12 [sharper]
zakim, take up item 3
18:13:13 [Zakim]
I see 5 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
18:13:13 [Zakim]
3. Action-631 UAAG:next? [from kford]
18:13:13 [Zakim]
agendum 3. "Action-631 UAAG:next?" taken up [from kford]
18:13:32 [KimPatch]
1.8.m Webpage bookmarks
18:13:33 [KimPatch]
The user can mark items in a webpage, then navigate back to marked items using keyboard shortcuts. The user can specify whether a navigation mark disappears after a session or is persistent across sessions.
18:13:35 [KimPatch]
Intent of Success Criterion 1.8.m:
18:13:36 [KimPatch]
This success criterion is crucial for users who have trouble navigating a webpage. Speech users, users who have memory problems, and small-screen users, including blind users using mobile technology may be able to initially go from one area of a webpage to another area, but may have trouble frequently repeating the action. The ability to mark areas of the page allows these types of users to...
18:13:38 [KimPatch]
...participate on a level playing field with users who have less trouble navigating.
18:13:40 [KimPatch]
Examples of Success Criterion 1.8.m:
18:13:41 [KimPatch]
Jamie is a quadriplegic who uses speech recognition. She is a professor who often reads long documents online and often finds herself comparing different portions of the same document. It is tedious carrying out multiple scrolling commands by speech every time she needs to change to another portion of the document. She sets several bookmarks instead. This allows her to instantly jump among...
18:13:43 [KimPatch]
...sections, eliminating the time and effort penalties she usually has to pay for slow scrolling.
18:13:45 [KimPatch]
Julie has memory problems. She finds it difficult to remember key points from a document she has just read. She uses bookmarks to mark important points she needs to read again. Without the ability to bookmark she has a catch-22 problem -- she won’t remember what she needs to read multiple times in order to do so.
18:13:49 [KimPatch]
Justin is blind and occasionally travels to unfamiliar places for work. He sometimes uses an iPhone to orient himself within a map of the building he’s in. Once he’s found a key place on the map -- like the room where a conference session is held, or the bathroom -- he bookmarks it to build a map of useful places. This makes navigation easier the second time around. He sets the marks to be...
18:13:54 [KimPatch]
...persistent across sessions so next time he visits he won't have to repeat his work.
18:13:56 [KimPatch]
Mary has repetitive strain injuries that make it painful to use a mouse. She uses an elaborate web application to correct papers. After putting a comment in a comment field she has to scroll all the way to the bottom of the document to enter the comment. The bookmarks make even this badly designed application something she can use successfully without hurting herself.
18:14:02 [KimPatch]
--
18:14:47 [sharper]
rrsagent, make logs public
18:14:48 [sharper]
rrsagent, draft minutes
18:14:48 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/05/24-ua-minutes.html sharper
18:18:02 [sharper]
GL: use modality independent language
18:18:11 [sharper]
GL: too fcused on keyboard
18:18:26 [sharper]
KP: changes on the fly
18:19:15 [sharper]
KF: this functionality and scenarios are the way they work on screen -readers and AT.
18:19:18 [KimPatch]
The user can mark items in a webpage, then navigate back to marked items using modality independent shortcuts. The user can specify whether a navigation mark disappears after a session or is persistent across sessions.
18:19:31 [sharper]
KF: 'bookmarks' is good
18:20:42 [sharper]
KP: using modality independent shortcuts
18:21:10 [sharper]
GL: How different from just saying shortcuts?
18:21:29 [sharper]
JS: just use shortcuts
18:21:34 [KimPatch]
The user can mark items in a webpage, then navigate back to marked items using shortcuts. The user can specify whether a navigation mark disappears after a session or is persistent across sessions.
18:23:18 [sharper]
GL: do we need a defn for shortcuts?
18:23:51 [sharper]
KP: do create defn for shortcuts
18:24:00 [sharper]
s/do/to
18:26:58 [sharper]
RESOLVED: KPs 631 IET modified as 'The user can mark items in a webpage, then navigate back to marked items using shortcuts. The user can specify whether a navigation mark disappears after a session or is persistent across sessions.' - definition of shortcut to be created
18:27:48 [sharper]
Action: KimPatch to create shortcut definition
18:27:48 [trackbot]
Sorry, couldn't find user - KimPatch
18:28:10 [sharper]
Action: kimpatch to create shortcut definition
18:28:10 [trackbot]
Sorry, couldn't find user - kimpatch
18:28:33 [sharper]
action: kim to create shortcut definition
18:28:33 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-733 - Create shortcut definition [on Kimberly Patch - due 2012-05-31].
18:28:52 [sharper]
rrsagent, make logs public
18:28:52 [sharper]
rrsagent, draft minutes
18:28:52 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/05/24-ua-minutes.html sharper
18:28:59 [sharper]
zakim, please part
18:28:59 [Zakim]
leaving. As of this point the attendees were sharper, Kim_Patch, Jeanne, Greg_Lowney, kford, [Microsoft]
18:28:59 [Zakim]
Zakim has left #ua
18:29:07 [sharper]
rrsagent, draft minutes
18:29:07 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/05/24-ua-minutes.html sharper
18:32:54 [sharper]
rrsagent, please part
18:32:54 [RRSAgent]
I see 5 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2012/05/24-ua-actions.rdf :
18:32:54 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: KFord to write IER for 1.7.4 [1]
18:32:54 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2012/05/24-ua-irc#T18-10-08
18:32:54 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: kford to write IER for 1.7.4 [2]
18:32:54 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2012/05/24-ua-irc#T18-10-10
18:32:54 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: KimPatch to create shortcut definition [3]
18:32:54 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2012/05/24-ua-irc#T18-27-48
18:32:54 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: kimpatch to create shortcut definition [4]
18:32:54 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2012/05/24-ua-irc#T18-28-10
18:32:54 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: kim to create shortcut definition [5]
18:32:54 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2012/05/24-ua-irc#T18-28-33