15:00:08 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #html-a11y
15:00:08 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2012/05/24-html-a11y-irc
15:00:10 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world
15:00:10 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #html-a11y
15:00:12 <JF> JF has joined #html-a11y
15:00:12 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be 2119
15:00:12 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see WAI_PFWG(HTML TF)10:00AM scheduled to start 60 minutes ago
15:00:13 <trackbot> Meeting: HTML Accessibility Task Force Teleconference
15:00:13 <trackbot> Date: 24 May 2012
15:01:42 <MikeSmith> Zakim, call Mike
15:01:46 <Zakim> ok, MikeSmith; the call is being made
15:01:47 <JF> zakim, ??P8 is Janina
15:01:51 <Zakim> +Mike
15:01:53 <Zakim> I already had ??P8 as Janina_Sajka, JF
15:02:20 <Judy> Judy has joined #html-a11y
15:02:26 <MichaelC> agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-a11y/2012May/0141.html
15:02:31 <MichaelC> chair: Mike_Smith
15:02:48 <Zakim> +Judy
15:03:36 <janina> janina has joined #html-a11y
15:04:15 <Zakim> +Cynthia_Shelly
15:04:19 <MikeSmith> agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-a11y/2012May/0141.html
15:04:31 <Zakim> -Cynthia_Shelly
15:05:53 <Judy> zakim, who's on the phone?
15:05:53 <Zakim> On the phone I see JF, Cooper, Janina_Sajka, Mike, Judy
15:08:55 <MikeSmith> agenda+ 194 TF resolution
15:09:18 <Zakim> +??P16
15:09:41 <JF> scribe: JF
15:09:57 <JF> zakim, take up item 1
15:09:57 <Zakim> agendum 1. "194 TF resolution" taken up [from MikeSmith]
15:10:28 <LeonieW> LeonieW has joined #html-a11y
15:10:37 <LeonieW> scribenick: LeonieW
15:10:56 <MikeSmith> -> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/wiki/ISSUE-194/TranscriptElement Introduction of a <transcript> element 
15:11:55 <LeonieW> JF: We've done a fair amount of work on this and now have a change proposal.
15:12:23 <LeonieW> JF: It proposes a transcript landmark element that denotes the point on screen where the transcript link could be rendered.
15:12:59 <LeonieW> JF: It also proposes a transcript elemene on the video element that shares a value with the id of the transcript element.
15:13:52 <LeonieW> s/elemene/element/
15:15:14 <LeonieW> JF: There has been some push back from Benjamin, who is keen to continue using an anchor tag. This feels too much like a Dlink and forcing designers to include something on screen will always be difficult.
15:15:17 <MikeSmith> q?
15:15:57 <LeonieW> JS: There has been an email from Ted to say that he won't back this proposal.
15:16:20 <LeonieW> JF: I think it's the introduction of the transcript element that Ted finds difficult to reconcile.
15:16:48 <LeonieW> JF: We'll need a survey for this, but I think it should come down to two change proposals.
15:17:19 <LeonieW> rrsagent, make minutes
15:17:19 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/05/24-html-a11y-minutes.html LeonieW
15:17:35 <LeonieW> MS: Did we have feedback from the chairs?
15:18:11 <LeonieW> JF: They've given us a lot of scope, but I think they're keen for things to move on.
15:18:43 <LeonieW> JF: We were working towards the 25th.
15:18:55 <LeonieW> JS: Will we have a finished CP by then? 
15:19:17 <LeonieW> JS: Will we respond to Maciej's email?
15:19:36 <LeonieW> JF: Yes.
15:20:31 <Stevef> Stevef has joined #html-a11y
15:20:42 <MikeSmith> q?
15:20:44 <LeonieW> MS: Once we send out a 48 hour call, we can probably expect some objections. The question is are we ready to take a resolution for sending out the call?
15:21:25 <LeonieW> MS: Other than those involved in the discussion, has there been other disagreement with this CP?
15:22:39 <LeonieW> JF: Maciej and Ben, who have both been involved in the email dialogue.
15:23:21 <LeonieW> rrsagent, make minutes
15:23:21 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/05/24-html-a11y-minutes.html LeonieW
15:24:26 <LeonieW> MS: I think the next step is to ask for concensus amongst the TF.
15:24:38 <LeonieW> JS: Have we finished dotting the "is" yet?
15:24:47 <Judy> q+
15:25:37 <MikeSmith> -> http://dev.w3.org/html5/status/issue-status.html#ISSUE-194 status on issue 194
15:25:43 <MikeSmith> q?
15:26:03 <LeonieW> JF: We can pursue this further to get the fine detailed nailed. It's likely to be Tuesday by the time we can do that. If the chairs are happy, we could postpone the CP deadline to next week?
15:27:24 <LeonieW> JB: Is there a trade off? Would the extra time enable us to present a clearer CP that would cause less disagreement? What's the probability of the extra time making a difference?
15:27:47 <LeonieW> JF: One question is backwards compatibility, that Maciej proposed. There is also a question about the @media group.
15:28:20 <LeonieW> JF: The backwards compatibility one is the one most likely to make a difference.
15:28:46 <LeonieW> JS: We don't have a block 48 to launch it before next Tuesday anyway, so it brings us to next week anyway.
15:29:07 <LeonieW> JB: Could be issued late on Monday night EST?
15:29:30 <LeonieW> JS: The expiration would come in just ahead of this call though.
15:29:30 <Zakim> +??P2
15:29:44 <LeonieW> rrsagent, make minutes
15:29:44 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/05/24-html-a11y-minutes.html LeonieW
15:29:55 <Stevef> zakim, ??P2 is me
15:29:55 <Zakim> +Stevef; got it
15:30:07 <LeonieW> JF: If we could push it 'till Monday, I will by that point have had a chance to talk to Silvia and the others.
15:31:08 <LeonieW> MS: I'm hearing that we don't want to take a resolution today, and that John will work with the others to finalise the CP.
15:31:28 <LeonieW> MS: Do we need to give the chairs a heads up that we need another week?
15:31:44 <MikeSmith> q?
15:31:52 <MikeSmith> ack Judy 
15:31:52 <LeonieW> JF: Our CP will be ready by this time next week.
15:32:11 <LeonieW> zakim, next item
15:32:11 <Zakim> I do not see any more non-closed or non-skipped agenda items, LeonieW
15:32:12 <JF> zakim, take up next item
15:32:12 <Zakim> I do not see any more non-closed or non-skipped agenda items, JF
15:33:02 <LeonieW> Topic: Issue 199
15:33:32 <MikeSmith> -> http://dev.w3.org/html5/status/issue-status.html#ISSUE-199 issue 199 status
15:33:36 <LeonieW> MC: Ted and I are playing phone/email tag. 
15:33:52 <MikeSmith> action-216?
15:33:52 <trackbot> ACTION-216 does not exist
15:34:07 <MikeSmith> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/actions/216
15:34:18 <frankolivier> frankolivier has joined #html-a11y
15:34:26 <LeonieW> MS: We're not ready for a TF resolution?
15:34:33 <LeonieW> MC: Not yet. 
15:34:44 <LeonieW> rrsagent, make minutes
15:34:44 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/05/24-html-a11y-minutes.html LeonieW
15:35:21 <LeonieW> JS: Concerned about blockers on some issues.
15:36:34 <LeonieW> MS: Are we having a call next week?
15:36:44 <LeonieW> JB: Monday is the US holiday, not Thursday.
15:37:24 <LeonieW> MS: We'll put this one on the agenda for next week. Michael if you could get some time with Ted and post an update to the list, that'd be good.
15:37:25 <MikeSmith> q?
15:37:35 <LeonieW> Topic: Issue 204
15:37:40 <LeonieW> rrsagent, make minutes
15:37:40 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/05/24-html-a11y-minutes.html LeonieW
15:37:47 <MikeSmith> -> http://dev.w3.org/html5/status/issue-status.html#ISSUE-204 issue 204 status
15:38:06 <LeonieW> JF: This was with Ted to see if Jonas and Matt might be open to withdrawing their proposals.
15:38:39 <LeonieW> JF: Based on the current email discussion, it doesn't look as though they'll be withdrawing their CPs.
15:39:17 <MikeSmith> -> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2012May/thread.html#msg129 latest issue 204 thread
15:39:21 <MikeSmith> q?
15:39:45 <LeonieW> MS: Need to get this wrapped up by next week if we can.
15:39:53 <LeonieW> JS: Think it'll go to survey.
15:41:07 <LeonieW> JF: There might be an outside chance we can get more closely aligned.
15:41:46 <LeonieW> MS: Is there a deadline?
15:42:01 <LeonieW> JB: The delays are not coming from the TF.
15:42:12 <LeonieW> MS: I'm not seeing a deadlie attached to this though.
15:42:34 <LeonieW> s/deadlie/deadline/
15:43:05 <LeonieW> JF: We've done all we can, so I think this one is in the chair's court.
15:43:32 <LeonieW> MS: We should let the chairs know they can go ahead and start the survey then.
15:43:35 <MikeSmith> q?
15:43:41 <LeonieW> rrsagent, make minutes
15:43:41 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/05/24-html-a11y-minutes.html LeonieW
15:43:49 <Judy> agenda?
15:43:50 <LeonieW> Topic: Metagenerator
15:43:55 <Judy> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/wiki/ChangeProposals/Issue31cMetaGenerator
15:43:55 <Judy> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-a11y/2012May/0094.html
15:45:17 <LeonieW> JB: There has been a lot of discussion about this in the last week.
15:46:42 <LeonieW> JB: There are certain observations we'd like to capture. From trainers for example.
15:47:14 <LeonieW> JB: Would like to ask Steve and Léonie for some thoughts on this via email.
15:48:43 <LeonieW> JB: My intention is to put together an updated version.
15:49:07 <MikeSmith> q?
15:49:26 <LeonieW> JB: We should then be in a position to ask the TF to review the CP as its being polished.
15:50:16 <MikeSmith> http://krijnhoetmer.nl/irc-logs/whatwg/20120518#l-396
15:52:07 <LeonieW> MS: Henry seems to think there is a legacy reason for opposing this.
15:52:43 <LeonieW> JB: Hixie's original reason for opposing this issue was undocumented.
15:53:29 <LeonieW> MS: The question was raised as to whether HTML Tidy should be changed based on the outcome of this issue. 
15:53:38 <LeonieW> rrsagent, make minutes
15:53:38 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/05/24-html-a11y-minutes.html LeonieW
15:54:28 <frankolivier> frankolivier has left #html-a11y
15:54:38 <JF> Q+ to also add juliene reschke and his new bug
15:54:42 <LeonieW> JB: Can you and I co-ordinate on this?
15:55:14 <LeonieW> JB: The assumptions about tool behaviour are off course. It makes it disconcerting to write this up. 
15:55:34 <LeonieW> MS: Yes.
15:55:45 <MikeSmith> q?
15:55:47 <LeonieW> rrsagent, make minutes
15:55:47 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/05/24-html-a11y-minutes.html LeonieW
15:55:49 <MikeSmith> ack Judy 
15:55:53 <MikeSmith> ack JF 
15:55:53 <Zakim> JF, you wanted to also add juliene reschke and his new bug
15:56:13 <Judy> JB: and lost time over the weekend to write this up due to being under the weather then
15:56:15 <LeonieW> JF: FYI. Julian has filed a new bug based on this point.
15:56:16 <JF> ack JF
15:56:58 <LeonieW> JB: The core logic is that people with disabilities should not be put at a disadvantage by this.
15:57:32 <Judy> JB: Daniel's comment: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2012May/0104.html
15:57:48 <LeonieW> MS: What the TF is asking the chairs to do at this point is to reopen the issue. Once we have the CP updated, that's what we'll do.
15:58:01 <MikeSmith> q?
15:58:53 <LeonieW> JB: With the outline we have, there are a couple of things to shift off page. Also referring to Dan's comments.
15:59:09 <JF> Daniel Glazmon is even more specific here in not wanting to remove the meta-generator string: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2012May/0108.html
16:00:04 <LeonieW> MS: Anyone willing to scribe next week?
16:00:35 <LeonieW> MS: To confirm, there will be a call next week at the usual time.
16:00:43 <LeonieW> rrsagent, make minutes
16:00:43 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/05/24-html-a11y-minutes.html LeonieW
16:00:46 <JF> s/Glazmon/Glazman/
16:00:57 <Zakim> -Stevef
16:00:57 <Zakim> -Mike
16:00:58 <Zakim> -Léonie_Watson
16:00:58 <Zakim> -Judy
16:01:03 <Zakim> -JF
16:01:07 <Zakim> -Cooper
16:01:09 <Zakim> -Janina_Sajka
16:01:10 <Zakim> WAI_PFWG(HTML TF)10:00AM has ended
16:01:10 <Zakim> Attendees were JF, Cooper, Janina_Sajka, Mike, Judy, Cynthia_Shelly, Léonie_Watson, Stevef
16:02:12 <LeonieW> Present: Mike Smith, Janina Sajka, John Foliot, John Foliot, Léonie Watson, Steve Faulkner
16:02:22 <LeonieW> Scribe: Léonie Watson
16:02:35 <LeonieW> rrsagent, make minutes
16:02:35 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/05/24-html-a11y-minutes.html LeonieW
16:03:14 <LeonieW> rrsagent, make minutes
16:03:14 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/05/24-html-a11y-minutes.html LeonieW
16:04:02 <LeonieW> zakim, please part
16:04:02 <Zakim> Zakim has left #html-a11y
16:04:08 <LeonieW> rrsagent, please part
16:04:08 <RRSAgent> I see no action items