13:40:43 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #dap
13:40:43 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2012/05/23-dap-irc
13:40:45 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world
13:40:45 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #dap
13:40:47 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be DAP
13:40:47 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see UW_DAP()10:00AM scheduled to start in 20 minutes
13:40:48 <trackbot> Meeting: Device APIs Working Group Teleconference
13:40:48 <trackbot> Date: 23 May 2012
13:41:11 <fjh> Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2012May/0251.html
13:41:48 <fjh> Chair: Robin_Berjon, Frederick_Hirsch
13:41:52 <fjh> Present+ Robin_Berjon, Frederick_Hirsch
13:42:05 <fjh> Regrets+ Bryan_Sullivan
13:52:18 <darobin> darobin has joined #dap
13:54:23 <samarth> samarth has joined #dap
13:56:45 <dtran> dtran has joined #dap
13:57:02 <dtran> Present+ Dzung_Tran
13:58:09 <dsr> dsr has joined #dap
13:58:21 <Zakim> UW_DAP()10:00AM has now started
13:58:24 <nwidell> nwidell has joined #dap
13:58:27 <Zakim> +??P18
13:58:30 <fjh> zakim, ??P18 is me
13:58:30 <Zakim> +fjh; got it
13:58:57 <Zakim> + +33.1.43.14.aaaa
13:59:01 <AnssiK> AnssiK has joined #dap
13:59:03 <darobin> Zakim, aaaa is me
13:59:03 <Zakim> +darobin; got it
13:59:44 <Zakim> + +1.503.542.aabb
13:59:49 <Jungkee> Jungkee has joined #dap
14:00:00 <Josh_Soref> Zakim, pointer?
14:00:00 <Zakim> I don't understand your question, Josh_Soref.
14:00:00 <Jungkee> Present+ Jungkee_Song
14:00:04 <Josh_Soref> Zakim, code?
14:00:04 <Zakim> the conference code is 3279 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), Josh_Soref
14:00:20 <samarth> Present+ Samarth_D
14:00:33 <Zakim> +??P21
14:00:38 <AnssiK> zakim, ??P21 is me
14:00:38 <Zakim> +AnssiK; got it
14:00:47 <AnssiK> Present+ Anssi_Kostiainen
14:00:48 <Zakim> +Dsr
14:00:57 <Zakim> +Josh_Soref
14:01:04 <Zakim> +??P20
14:01:17 <dsr> Present+ Dsr
14:01:24 <Jungkee> Zakim, ??p20 is me
14:01:24 <Zakim> +Jungkee; got it
14:01:33 <Josh_Soref> Scribe: Josh_Soref 
14:01:40 <Josh_Soref> RRSAgent, draft minutes
14:01:40 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/05/23-dap-minutes.html Josh_Soref
14:01:47 <fjh> zakim, who is here?
14:01:48 <Zakim> On the phone I see fjh, darobin, +1.503.542.aabb (muted), AnssiK, Dsr, Josh_Soref, Jungkee
14:01:48 <Zakim> On IRC I see Jungkee, AnssiK, nwidell, dsr, dtran, samarth, darobin, Zakim, RRSAgent, richt, Marcos1, lgombos, Josh_Soref, slightlyoff, glenn, fjh, trackbot, mounir, rektide,
14:01:51 <Zakim> ... ilkka, hiroto_away, dom
14:01:53 <Josh_Soref> RRSAgent, make logs public
14:01:56 <Josh_Soref> RRSAgent, draft minutes
14:01:56 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/05/23-dap-minutes.html Josh_Soref
14:02:12 <fjh> zakim, where is +1.503
14:02:12 <Zakim> fjh, I do not see a party named 'where'.  If you meant to ask a question you need to add '?'
14:02:13 <Josh_Soref> Zakim, where is +1503?
14:02:14 <Zakim> North American dialing code 1.503 is Oregon
14:02:39 <dtran> 503 is me
14:03:04 <Josh_Soref> s/503 is me//
14:03:10 <Josh_Soref> Zakim, aabb is dtran 
14:03:10 <Zakim> +dtran; got it
14:03:50 <Jungkee> Zakim, mute me
14:03:50 <Zakim> Jungkee should now be muted
14:04:39 <fjh> zakim, where is dtran?
14:04:39 <Zakim> sorry, fjh, I do not understand your question
14:04:56 <fjh> zakim, who is here?
14:04:56 <Zakim> On the phone I see fjh, darobin, dtran (muted), AnssiK, Dsr, Josh_Soref, Jungkee (muted)
14:04:59 <Zakim> On IRC I see Jungkee, AnssiK, nwidell, dsr, dtran, samarth, darobin, Zakim, RRSAgent, richt, Marcos1, lgombos, Josh_Soref, slightlyoff, glenn, fjh, trackbot, mounir, rektide,
14:04:59 <Zakim> ... ilkka, hiroto_away, dom
14:05:10 <Josh_Soref> Topic: Announcements
14:05:12 <Josh_Soref> [ None ]
14:05:17 <Josh_Soref> Topic: Minutes Approval
14:05:26 <fjh> Approve minutes from 16 May
14:05:26 <fjh> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2012May/att-0248/minutes-2012-05-16.html
14:05:39 <Zakim> + +46.1.07.15.aacc
14:05:49 <Josh_Soref> RESOLUTION: Approve minutes from 16 May
14:05:59 <Josh_Soref> Topic: HTML Media Capture
14:06:00 <nwidell> Zakim, aacc is nwidell
14:06:04 <Zakim> +nwidell; got it
14:06:06 <Josh_Soref> Zakim, mute me
14:06:08 <fjh> CfC: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2012May/0206.html
14:06:08 <fjh> proposed RESOLUTION: Publish updated WD of HTML Media Cpature, draft at http://dev.w3.org/2009/dap/camera/
14:06:12 <Zakim> Josh_Soref should now be muted
14:06:16 <Zakim> +??P2
14:06:24 <Josh_Soref> s/Cpature/Capture/
14:06:29 <Josh_Soref> fjh: AnssiK, any concerns?
14:06:34 <Josh_Soref> AnssiK: no concerns
14:06:42 <Josh_Soref> RESOLUTION: Publish updated WD of HTML Media Capture, draft at http://dev.w3.org/2009/dap/camera/
14:06:49 <Josh_Soref> fjh: AnssiK, are you in a position to do publication?
14:06:52 <Josh_Soref> AnssiK: probably
14:06:56 <Josh_Soref> ... i just need to know what to do
14:07:03 <Josh_Soref> ... roughly update the state to WD?
14:07:12 <Josh_Soref> fjh: you change the state to WD
14:07:15 <Josh_Soref> ... run through link checker
14:07:18 <Josh_Soref> ... pub-rules checker
14:07:23 <Josh_Soref> ... validity checker
14:07:36 <fjh> action: anssik to prepare WD of HTML Media  Capture
14:07:36 <trackbot> Sorry, couldn't find user - anssik
14:07:49 <Milan_Patel> Milan_Patel has joined #dap
14:08:00 <darobin> action: anssi to prepare WD of HTML Media Capture
14:08:00 <trackbot> Created ACTION-539 - Prepare WD of HTML Media Capture [on Anssi Kostiainen - due 2012-05-30].
14:08:11 <Josh_Soref> Topic: Rechartering
14:08:22 <fjh> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2012May/0239.html
14:08:22 <fjh> proposed RESOLUTION: Drop drafting recharter of DAP (v3)
14:08:33 <Josh_Soref> fjh: any reason not to do it?
14:08:40 <Josh_Soref> ... darobin, you spelled it out on the list
14:08:54 <Josh_Soref> darobin: i think given the limited extension of scope
14:08:59 <fjh> proposed RESOLUTION: Drop drafting recharter of DAP (v3)
14:09:01 <Josh_Soref> ... i don't think it's worth the effort
14:09:02 <darobin> +1
14:09:09 <Josh_Soref> RESOLUTION: Drop drafting recharter of DAP (v3)
14:09:12 <Josh_Soref> Topic: Proximity
14:09:13 <Zakim> +Cathy
14:09:19 <fjh> Further draft updates: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2012May/0231.html
14:09:19 <fjh> clarification of events (bubble), http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2012May/0232.html
14:09:19 <fjh> test suites/implementation  http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2012May/0236.html (Marcos)
14:09:46 <Josh_Soref> fjh: i think it'll be fairly straightforward to get Marcos to be an Invited Expert
14:09:51 <darobin> ISSUE-113?
14:09:51 <trackbot> ISSUE-113 -- AddEventListener in Battery Status has side effects -- closed
14:09:51 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/issues/113
14:09:53 <Josh_Soref> ... AnssiK anything you want to say?
14:10:01 <Josh_Soref> AnssiK: not really, the discussion is going on the list
14:10:10 <fjh> ISSUE-113?
14:10:10 <trackbot> ISSUE-113 -- AddEventListener in Battery Status has side effects -- closed
14:10:10 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/issues/113
14:10:16 <Josh_Soref> darobin: I'd like to ask if we should reopen ISSUE-113
14:10:30 <Josh_Soref> Marcos1: i don't know if we should reopen it
14:10:35 <Josh_Soref> ... but there's definitely an issue here
14:10:43 <Josh_Soref> ... we have a similar side effect issue
14:10:46 <darobin> Zakim, ??P2 is Marcos
14:10:46 <Zakim> +Marcos; got it
14:10:58 <Josh_Soref> ... i think the new proposed text that AnssiK proposed is sufficient
14:11:01 <Josh_Soref> darobin: it's fine by me
14:11:14 <Josh_Soref> ... but i just don't want a torrent of objections like we had last time
14:11:24 <Josh_Soref> fjh: Marcos, do you want to talk about the tests you've written?
14:11:33 <Josh_Soref> Marcos1: i've just updated the work i've done there
14:11:42 <Josh_Soref> ... i think the test suite is fairly complete
14:11:51 <Josh_Soref> ... i think i may need to update the test descriptors
14:12:00 <Josh_Soref> ... from my perspective, i think they're ok
14:12:05 <Josh_Soref> fjh: anything else to discuss here?
14:12:25 <Josh_Soref> Marcos1: i noticed the use of proximity.htmlDocument has been deleted
14:12:28 <Josh_Soref> ... from the repo
14:12:34 <Josh_Soref> ... i guess that was the right thing to do
14:12:45 <Josh_Soref> ... but i wasn't sure if that was causing confusion, with two documents
14:12:54 <Josh_Soref> ... i think myself and dougt were confused by that
14:13:09 <Josh_Soref> fjh: maybe we should adopt the process of having source and output in the repo
14:13:17 <Josh_Soref> ... that Marcos1 suggested
14:13:25 <Josh_Soref> s/Marcos1/Marcos/G
14:13:31 <Josh_Soref> AnssiK: what was the confusion?
14:13:38 <Josh_Soref> Marcos1: it's hard to know that something changes
14:13:49 <Josh_Soref> ... the date on the file
14:13:52 <AnssiK> see http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/dap/ for changes
14:13:53 <Josh_Soref> s/on/in/
14:14:08 <Josh_Soref> s/htmlDocument/html document/
14:14:28 <fjh> if we generate and store Overview.html, then that version will have fixed date and status, while Overview.src.html always runs the scripts and usually updates the date, etc, confusing
14:14:29 <fjh> \
14:14:33 <Josh_Soref> ... dougt also got confused
14:14:56 <Josh_Soref> AnssiK: the confusion happened because Jung forked the spec 
14:15:02 <AnssiK> http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/dap/log/bf7c4fc193cd/proximity/Overview.html
14:15:06 <darobin> s/Jung/Dzung/
14:15:14 <Zakim> +??P0
14:15:22 <fjh> s/jung forked/Dzung forked/
14:15:30 <Milan_Patel> Present+ Milan_Patel
14:15:43 <Josh_Soref> Zakim, ??P0 is Milan_Patel 
14:15:43 <Zakim> +Milan_Patel; got it
14:15:56 <Josh_Soref> Marcos1: we could include an iframe
14:16:03 <Josh_Soref> AnssiK: including an iframe seems like a hack
14:16:16 <Josh_Soref> ... it seems like we should make this a ReSpec feature
14:16:21 <Josh_Soref> ... an iframe may be overkill
14:16:26 <Josh_Soref> ... maybe a link to the revisions
14:16:31 <Josh_Soref> ... many other specs do that already
14:16:34 <Josh_Soref> Marcos1: that's fine
14:16:48 <Josh_Soref> ... working with the document all the time, you need to be able to see everything in one go
14:16:56 <Josh_Soref> AnssiK: you may want to subscribe to public-dap-commits
14:17:04 <AnssiK> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-dap-commits/
14:17:26 <Jungkee> Zakim, unmute me
14:17:26 <Zakim> Jungkee should no longer be muted
14:17:35 <Josh_Soref> Topic: Gallery
14:17:43 <fjh> comments from Greg, http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2012May/0247.html
14:18:00 <Josh_Soref> Jungkee: XXX
14:18:03 <Jungkee> Proposed metadata would be http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2012May/0266.html
14:18:28 <Josh_Soref> s|Proposed metadata would be http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2012May/0266.html|-> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2012May/0266.html Proposed metadata|
14:18:31 <Josh_Soref> RRSAgent, draft minutes
14:18:31 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/05/23-dap-minutes.html Josh_Soref
14:19:17 <Josh_Soref> ... we need to look at metadata
14:19:19 <Josh_Soref> ... fields
14:19:23 <Josh_Soref> ... all of the types
14:19:25 <Josh_Soref> ... metadata
14:19:27 <Josh_Soref> ... metadata
14:19:38 <Josh_Soref> Jungkee: I also have a Gallery demo
14:19:43 <Josh_Soref> ... i'll post the link in one or two days
14:19:55 <Josh_Soref> ... it's about data/content delivery
14:20:05 <Josh_Soref> ... so we could have some more concrete discussion
14:20:12 <fjh> q+ to ask if metadata is topic for media capture task force
14:20:13 <Josh_Soref> ... on how we could use the delivery method
14:20:14 <fjh> ack fjh
14:20:14 <Zakim> fjh, you wanted to ask if metadata is topic for media capture task force
14:20:49 <Josh_Soref> q+ to say that Media Ontology is not a "Liked" topic by browser vendors
14:20:53 <Josh_Soref> Jungkee: not really
14:20:56 <Josh_Soref> ... there are two topics
14:21:00 <Josh_Soref> ... 1. metadata
14:21:08 <Josh_Soref> ... the media ontology group defined a core set
14:21:16 <Josh_Soref> ... i want to bring that set to the gallery api
14:21:21 <Josh_Soref> ... 2. data delivery methods
14:21:28 <Josh_Soref> ... we are going to deliver the content as a blob
14:21:40 <Josh_Soref> ... or because of performance issues, 
14:21:47 <Josh_Soref> ... bring the metadata as a url
14:22:12 <Josh_Soref> ... after i share the demo
14:22:22 <Josh_Soref> ... we could probably see some critical concerns
14:22:26 <Josh_Soref> ... about the data delivery method
14:22:35 <Josh_Soref> fjh: the reason i asked about the TF
14:22:42 <Josh_Soref> ... is there are two types of metadata
14:22:46 <Josh_Soref> ... 1. "Author" etc.
14:22:58 <Josh_Soref> ... 2. data delivery, which seems similar to the Constraints stuff in the TF
14:23:01 <Josh_Soref> ... what should happen next?
14:23:03 <Josh_Soref> q?
14:23:11 <Josh_Soref> ... what would you need to do?
14:23:22 <fjh> ack Josh_Soref
14:23:23 <Zakim> Josh_Soref, you wanted to say that Media Ontology is not a "Liked" topic by browser vendors
14:23:28 <Josh_Soref> Jungkee: i could have a discussion about metadata on the MC TF
14:23:54 <fjh> might want to review the constraints work, though I think that is too much detail for what you intend for gallery
14:24:13 <Josh_Soref> ... i understand that browser vendors don't like it
14:24:20 <Josh_Soref> ... but
14:27:19 <Josh_Soref> Josh_Soref: [ lots of reasons not to use Media Ontology spec ]
14:27:26 <Josh_Soref> Jungkee: the reason to use it
14:27:29 <darobin> [I wonder if we can just release something and ask the broader community for their input on the type of metadata they want]
14:27:30 <Josh_Soref> ... is existing services
14:27:34 <Zakim> + +1.781.534.aadd
14:27:42 <lgombos> Present+ Laszlo_Gombos
14:27:43 <Josh_Soref> Zakim, where is +1781?
14:27:43 <Zakim> North American dialing code 1.781 is Massachusetts
14:27:53 <Josh_Soref> Zakim, aadd is lgombos 
14:27:53 <Zakim> +lgombos; got it
14:28:06 <Josh_Soref> Zakim, nick lgombos is Laszlo_Gombos
14:28:06 <Zakim> sorry, Josh_Soref, I do not see a party named 'Laszlo_Gombos'
14:28:11 <Josh_Soref> Zakim, lgombos is Laszlo_Gombos
14:28:11 <Zakim> +Laszlo_Gombos; got it
14:28:13 <Josh_Soref> Zakim, nick lgombos is Laszlo_Gombos
14:28:13 <Zakim> ok, Josh_Soref, I now associate lgombos with Laszlo_Gombos
14:28:43 <Josh_Soref> darobin: in general
14:28:48 <Josh_Soref> ... i think to move this forward
14:28:49 <nwidell> Present+ Niklas_Widell
14:29:04 <Josh_Soref> ... it would be useful to keep the metadata separate from the specification
14:29:15 <Josh_Soref> ... i people aren't happy with the general approach
14:29:22 <Josh_Soref> ... there's no need to have the metadata
14:29:30 <Josh_Soref> ... if people are happy with the general approach,
14:29:38 <Josh_Soref> ... then we can ask for input on metadata
14:29:41 <Josh_Soref> ... does that make sense?
14:29:48 <darobin> s/it would be useful to keep the metadata separate from the specification/it would be useful to keep the metadata discussion separate from the specification discussion/
14:29:49 <Josh_Soref> Zakim, nwidell is Niklas_Widell
14:29:49 <Zakim> +Niklas_Widell; got it
14:29:52 <Josh_Soref> Zakim, nick nwidell is Niklas_Widell
14:29:52 <Zakim> ok, Josh_Soref, I now associate nwidell with Niklas_Widell
14:30:00 <darobin> s/there's no need to have the metadata/there's no need to have the metadata discussion/
14:30:09 <Josh_Soref> fjh: i think we need to understand the metadata that matters for gallery
14:30:15 <Josh_Soref> ... and then decide how to represent it
14:30:22 <Josh_Soref> darobin: for me, there are two aspects in the proposal
14:30:28 <Josh_Soref> ... 1. how gallery works in general
14:30:31 <Josh_Soref> ... 2. metadata in gallery
14:30:39 <Josh_Soref> ... i think it makes sense to get consensus on 1
14:30:46 <Josh_Soref> ... if people like that, then we can discuss 2
14:30:56 <Josh_Soref> ... schema.org, ad hoc, whatever
14:31:08 <Josh_Soref> ... if people don't like 1, then there's no point to discuss ontologies
14:31:12 <Josh_Soref> Jungkee: i agree with you
14:31:19 <Josh_Soref> ... i'll share the demo
14:31:25 <Josh_Soref> ... and we can look at metadata after that
14:31:32 <Josh_Soref> darobin: sounds like a good plan
14:31:38 <Josh_Soref> Zakim, who is on the call?
14:31:38 <Zakim> On the phone I see fjh, darobin, dtran (muted), AnssiK, Dsr, Josh_Soref, Jungkee, Niklas_Widell, Marcos, Cathy, Milan_Patel, Laszlo_Gombos
14:31:43 <Josh_Soref> Topic: System Level API
14:31:50 <fjh> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2012May/0250.html
14:31:55 <Josh_Soref> fjh: darobin, i think that's on its way to AC
14:32:01 <Josh_Soref> darobin: I made my last draft
14:32:11 <Josh_Soref> ... the name of the group has changed to XX2
14:32:17 <Josh_Soref> ... because it shouldn't just focus on APIs
14:32:23 <Josh_Soref> ... but also the runtime environment
14:32:32 <Josh_Soref> ... there's going to be a discussion on a name for the ML
14:32:40 <Josh_Soref> ... then once W3 is happy w/ the Charter
14:32:46 <Josh_Soref> ... which they're looking at
14:33:07 <Josh_Soref> dsr: darobin, should I create an ML?
14:33:13 <Josh_Soref> ... public-sysapps?
14:33:17 <Josh_Soref> darobin: excellent
14:33:26 <Josh_Soref> s/XX2/System Applications/
14:33:45 <Josh_Soref> Zakim, who is making noise?
14:33:57 <Zakim> Josh_Soref, listening for 11 seconds I heard sound from the following: fjh (26%), darobin (31%), Jungkee (51%)
14:33:59 <Jungkee> Zakim, mute me
14:33:59 <Zakim> Jungkee should now be muted
14:34:00 <Josh_Soref> Topic: XX2
14:34:11 <Josh_Soref> s/XX2/Other Business/
14:34:19 <Josh_Soref> fjh: AnssiK, I noticed you changed the main page
14:34:24 <Josh_Soref> [ Adjourned ]
14:34:24 <Zakim> -AnssiK
14:34:26 <Zakim> -Marcos
14:34:26 <Zakim> -Niklas_Widell
14:34:27 <Jungkee> thanks
14:34:27 <Zakim> -darobin
14:34:28 <Josh_Soref> trackbot, end telcon
14:34:28 <Zakim> -fjh
14:34:28 <trackbot> Zakim, list attendees
14:34:28 <Zakim> As of this point the attendees have been fjh, +33.1.43.14.aaaa, darobin, +1.503.542.aabb, AnssiK, Dsr, Josh_Soref, Jungkee, dtran, +46.1.07.15.aacc, Cathy, Marcos, Milan_Patel,
14:34:31 <Jungkee> Jungkee has left #dap
14:34:31 <Josh_Soref> s/thanks//
14:34:31 <Zakim> ... +1.781.534.aadd, Laszlo_Gombos, Niklas_Widell
14:34:31 <Zakim> -Cathy
14:34:36 <Zakim> -Laszlo_Gombos
14:34:36 <trackbot> RRSAgent, please draft minutes
14:34:36 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/05/23-dap-minutes.html trackbot
14:34:37 <trackbot> RRSAgent, bye
14:34:37 <RRSAgent> I see 2 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2012/05/23-dap-actions.rdf :
14:34:37 <RRSAgent> ACTION: anssik to prepare WD of HTML Media  Capture [1]
14:34:37 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2012/05/23-dap-irc#T14-07-36
14:34:37 <RRSAgent> ACTION: anssi to prepare WD of HTML Media Capture [2]
14:34:37 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2012/05/23-dap-irc#T14-08-00
14:34:39 <Zakim> -dtran
14:34:41 <Zakim> -Jungkee
14:34:48 <Zakim> -Josh_Soref