18:46:38 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #audio
18:46:38 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2012/05/23-audio-irc
18:46:45 <olivier> zakim, this will be audio
18:46:45 <Zakim> ok, olivier; I see RWC_Audio()3:00PM scheduled to start in 14 minutes
18:47:13 <olivier> rrsagent, make logs public
18:47:23 <olivier> Meeting: Audio WG Teleconference
18:47:26 <olivier> Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-audio/2012AprJun/0364.html
18:56:38 <roc> roc has joined #audio
18:56:40 <colinbdclark> colinbdclark has joined #audio
18:57:20 <Zakim> RWC_Audio()3:00PM has now started
18:57:26 <gabriel> gabriel has joined #audio
18:57:27 <Zakim> +??P0
18:58:07 <Zakim> +??P1
18:58:18 <gabriel> Zakim, ??P1 is me
18:58:18 <Zakim> +gabriel; got it
18:58:32 <roc> Zakim, ??P0 is me
18:58:32 <Zakim> +roc; got it
18:59:06 <gabriel> zakim, mute me
18:59:06 <Zakim> gabriel should now be muted
18:59:39 <tross> tross has joined #audio
19:00:16 <chris> chris has joined #audio
19:00:27 <Zakim> +[Microsoft]
19:00:31 <Zakim> + +1.862.201.aaaa
19:00:40 <cwilso> zakim, +1.862 is me
19:00:40 <Zakim> +cwilso; got it
19:00:42 <Zakim> +??P4
19:00:51 <olivier> zakim, ??P4 is me
19:00:51 <Zakim> +olivier; got it
19:01:00 <olivier> zakim, who is here?
19:01:00 <Zakim> On the phone I see roc, gabriel (muted), [Microsoft], cwilso, olivier
19:01:01 <Zakim> On IRC I see chris, tross, gabriel, colinbdclark, roc, RRSAgent, Zakim, olivier, automata, kennyluck, F1LT3R, cwilso, foolip, trackbot, shepazu, kinetik, paul___irish
19:01:03 <cwilso> scribe: cwilso
19:01:07 <cwilso> scribenick: cwilso
19:01:10 <olivier> Agenda+ Clarifying the issues process
19:01:12 <tross> zakim, [Microsoft] is me
19:01:12 <Zakim> +tross; got it
19:01:20 <olivier> Agenda+ Charter, MIDI draft
19:01:24 <olivier> Agenda+ Triage/clarify the recent issues
19:01:27 <Zakim> + +1.650.253.aabb
19:01:29 <olivier> Agenda+ Usage/Reference to OpenAL
19:01:36 <olivier> Agenda+ Frequency of teleconferences
19:01:53 <Zakim> + +1.978.314.aacc
19:02:18 <joe> joe has joined #audio
19:02:22 <olivier> Regrets: Philip, Marcus, Al
19:03:50 <cwilso> zakim, +1.978 is joe
19:03:50 <Zakim> +joe; got it
19:04:03 <Zakim> +Doug_Schepers
19:04:22 <olivier> zakim, who is here?
19:04:22 <Zakim> On the phone I see roc, gabriel (muted), tross, cwilso, olivier, +1.650.253.aabb, joe, Doug_Schepers
19:04:24 <Zakim> On IRC I see joe, chris, tross, gabriel, colinbdclark, roc, RRSAgent, Zakim, olivier, automata, kennyluck, F1LT3R, cwilso, foolip, trackbot, shepazu, kinetik, paul___irish
19:05:04 <olivier> zakim, aabb is crogers
19:05:04 <Zakim> +crogers; got it
19:05:05 <cwilso> zakim, +1.650 is ChrisRogers
19:05:06 <Zakim> sorry, cwilso, I do not recognize a party named '+1.650'
19:05:09 <cwilso> :)
19:05:25 <olivier> zakim, take up agendum 1
19:05:25 <Zakim> agendum 1. "Clarifying the issues process" taken up [from olivier]
19:05:37 <olivier> Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-audio/2012AprJun/0364.html
19:05:44 <olivier> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-audio/2012AprJun/thread.html#msg357
19:06:09 <cwilso> olivier: got a lot of issues submitted by Opera in the last week, want to confirm we agree on process for managing issues
19:06:46 <olivier> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-audio/2012AprJun/0357.html
19:07:09 <cwilso> olivier: main question remaining is whether the editor (or anyone) can close an issue as long as it's well-documented.
19:07:56 <cwilso> crogers: I wouldn't mind having to go into review process [e.g. "pending review" status]
19:08:09 <shepazu> q+
19:08:17 <roc> q+
19:08:22 <cwilso> olivier: you could send emails
19:08:32 <cwilso> crogers: it would be easier to just mark as prending
19:08:32 <olivier> ack shepazu
19:08:38 <cwilso> s/prending/pending
19:08:52 <cwilso> shepazu: I favor as little process as possible.
19:09:18 <cwilso> shepazu: process should only be there to resolve problems
19:09:47 <cwilso> crogers: if we have hundreds of issues, I don't want to have to send emails for each resolution (That's more process)
19:10:48 <cwilso> shepazu: trying to avoid explicit process
19:11:00 <olivier> zakim, who is making noise
19:11:00 <Zakim> I don't understand 'who is making noise', olivier
19:11:02 <cwilso> crogers: just trying to avoid having to hand-send emails.
19:11:03 <olivier> zakim, who is making noise?
19:11:17 <Zakim> olivier, listening for 11 seconds I heard sound from the following: roc (4%), cwilso (17%), olivier (95%)
19:12:00 <olivier> ack roc
19:12:07 <cwilso> olivier: I don't think it is adding a process, just clarifying how we prefer to do it
19:12:30 <cwilso> roc: when an issue is filed, the tracker sends an email; why can't it just send emails when issues are closed?
19:12:46 <cwilso> shepazu: I think you can do that, I'll check.
19:12:54 <cwilso> crogers: seems like that would be spamming the list
19:13:06 <cwilso> roc: it's already spamming the list with filing new issues.
19:13:51 <cwilso> olivier: it shouldn't be that many emails - the last week has been exceptional.  I think we should try this.
19:14:04 <cwilso> olivier: that is, when something is closed, it sends an email.
19:14:24 <cwilso> ACTION: shepazu to look into technical capabilities of tracker to see if it can send emails when issues are closed.
19:14:24 <trackbot> Created ACTION-46 - Look into technical capabilities of tracker to see if it can send emails when issues are closed. [on Doug Schepers - due 2012-05-30].
19:14:45 <olivier> zakim, take up agendum 2
19:14:45 <Zakim> agendum 2. "Charter, MIDI draft" taken up [from olivier]
19:15:58 <cwilso> olivier: group agendum: talked a bit on list about rechartering, still need to figure out rough milestones.  How much time do we need to spend on the milestones, Doug?
19:16:11 <cwilso> q+
19:16:22 <cwilso> shepazu: whatever you guys feel is correct.
19:16:28 <Zakim> +??P8
19:17:00 <olivier> zakim, ??P8 is Clowis
19:17:00 <Zakim> +Clowis; got it
19:17:08 <olivier> ack cw
19:17:52 <olivier> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-audio/2012AprJun/0382.html
19:18:17 <chrislowis> chrislowis has joined #audio
19:18:28 <chrislowis> Zakim: who is on the call
19:18:34 <chrislowis> Zakim: who is on the call?
19:18:44 <olivier> cwilson: for MIDI, we have a strong proposal, but would like to be conservative with our milestones and slide them by at least 1 Quarter
19:19:04 <olivier> … especially given that we first recharter before publishing a FPWD
19:19:19 <olivier> … sliding by 1Q would give us until the end of the year to reach LC
19:19:42 <olivier> … still fairly aggressive, but much narrower and much more targeted that web audio API
19:19:50 <olivier> q?
19:19:56 <cwilso> olivier: fair enough
19:20:41 <cwilso> olivier: I'll send another update then, sliding MIDI back a quarter and making the Web Audio schedule much more conservative.
19:20:48 <olivier> https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/audio/raw-file/tip/midi/specification.html
19:20:56 <olivier> (first ED of the MIDI API)
19:21:42 <olivier> CWilson: there is also a prototype implementation, calling the java API through javascript
19:22:30 <olivier> Zakim, take up agendum 4
19:22:30 <Zakim> agendum 4. "Usage/Reference to OpenAL" taken up [from olivier]
19:22:37 <cwilso> MIDIBridge pointer: https://github.com/abudaan/MIDIBridge
19:22:58 <olivier> ISSUE-61 ?
19:22:58 <trackbot> ISSUE-61 -- AudioPannerNode models underdefined -- raised
19:22:58 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2011/audio/track/issues/61
19:23:31 <cwilso> olivier: it came up in a discussion about issue-61: there are a number of references to OpenAL (http://connect.creativelabs.com/openal/default.aspx)
19:24:07 <cwilso> olivier: there aren't necessarily clear references to that spec in the WA spec.  crogers?
19:25:12 <cwilso> crogers: AudioPannerNode in particular uses distance models, etc., that the intent was would follow OpenAL's methods.
19:25:23 <cwilso> crogers: OpenAL had a lot of work that went into it.
19:25:26 <shepazu> q+
19:25:34 <cwilso> BTW: there is an HTML copy of OpenAL: http://connect.creativelabs.com/openal/Documentation/OpenAL%201.1%20Specification.htm
19:25:35 <olivier> OpenAL spec: http://connect.creativelabs.com/openal/Documentation/Forms/AllItems.aspx
19:25:51 <olivier> ack she
19:26:00 <cwilso> crogers: I don't want to just plagiarize OpenAL, of course.
19:26:25 <cwilso> shepazu: is OpenAL royalty-free?
19:27:04 <cwilso> olivier: the spec is copyrighted, but there is no IP claims stated.
19:27:30 <cwilso> shepazu: if we are normatively referring to something, it has to be known-RF.
19:28:12 <cwilso> crogers: I don't think there are royalties involved.  We asked Tom White a couple of months ago, and he came back with a soft "okay".
19:29:00 <cwilso> shepazu: it's not the copyright, it's the RF status.  The spec should include everything we need to implement RF.
19:29:27 <cwilso> shepazu: I should get in touch with the OpenAL folks - I was talking with someone at Intel about this at the AC meeting.
19:30:10 <cwilso> crogers: I'm worried about just lifting text out of the document.
19:30:40 <cwilso> ACTION: shepazu to reach out to OpenAL folks to get firm commitment on IP status of OpenAL.
19:30:40 <trackbot> Created ACTION-47 - Reach out to OpenAL folks to get firm commitment on IP status of OpenAL. [on Doug Schepers - due 2012-05-30].
19:31:34 <cwilso> no
19:31:39 <olivier> zakim, who is noisy?
19:31:49 <olivier> zakim, who is making noise?
19:31:50 <Zakim> olivier, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: olivier (4%), Doug_Schepers (60%), Clowis (59%)
19:32:00 <Zakim> olivier, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: Doug_Schepers (62%), Clowis (51%)
19:32:01 <olivier> zakim, mute clowis
19:32:02 <cwilso> zakim, mute CLowis
19:32:03 <Zakim> Clowis should now be muted
19:32:03 <Zakim> Clowis was already muted, cwilso
19:33:09 <cwilso> olivier: it would be good to have a clear understanding of what the IP status of OpenAL is.  After that, we'll have to decide if we prefer quoting from it (in which case we'll need a green light from OpenAL) or referencing it - whichever makes the WA spec easier to implement.
19:33:36 <cwilso> olivier: crogers, would we have similar issues for other external specs, like fmod?
19:34:03 <cwilso> crogers: no, the api itself is just an informative mention.
19:34:46 <olivier> q?
19:35:18 <cwilso> olivier: any preference as to referencing vs. quoting?
19:35:49 <cwilso> crogers: I have no problem either way, just didn't want to lift text out without permission.
19:37:02 <cwilso> crogers: OpenAL is an industry standard, so I do believe we should continue to use it as a reference.
19:37:43 <cwilso> shepazu: so I can accomplish my action, what do we want to copy/reference?
19:37:56 <cwilso> olivier: AudioPanner
19:38:06 <cwilso> crogers: and AudioListener.
19:38:24 <olivier> zakim, take up agendum 5
19:38:24 <Zakim> agendum 5. "Frequency of teleconferences" taken up [from olivier]
19:39:39 <cwilso> olivier: we have had a number of people join who can't, for one reason or another, attend our current telecon, mostly due to tz issues.
19:40:40 <cwilso> olivier: we discussed on the list how much decision-making should occur on the list.  I'm still keen to have telecons to keep a heartbeat going.  I wanted to ask if others were comfortable with the frequency.
19:40:44 <roc> q+
19:40:53 <olivier> ack roc
19:41:39 <cwilso> roc: as someone who has to get up at an odd hour for this call, I'd rather have less frequent but longer meetings.  If you get up at 3am for a 15min meeting, that's less than ideal.
19:42:17 <cwilso> q+ to suggest the group could have alternating times for APAC/EMEA deltas.  My workgroup does this.
19:42:28 <cwilso> shepazu: suggestion of frequency?
19:42:51 <shepazu> q?
19:42:57 <shepazu> q+
19:43:19 <cwilso> roc: I'd probably suggest letting issues pile up, and schedule a telecon when necessary.  Additionally, it's best to give notice of agenda/cancellations/etc with at LEAST 24hrs notice.
19:43:22 <olivier> ack cwi
19:43:22 <Zakim> cwilso, you wanted to suggest the group could have alternating times for APAC/EMEA deltas.  My workgroup does this.
19:44:32 <roc> q+
19:45:02 <olivier> cwilson: the group could have alternating times for APAC/EMEA deltas.  My workgroup does this.
19:45:11 <olivier> olivier: how does the coordination happen? minutes?
19:45:20 <cwilso> cwilso: yes.
19:45:23 <olivier> cwilson: yes, detailed minutes and clarifications/ questions on the list
19:45:30 <olivier> ack she
19:45:46 <cwilso> cwilso: additional idea: just plan agenda further ahead, and let members opt out.
19:46:19 <cwilso> shepazu: my experience is that when groups stop having telecons, the timelines tend to suffer dramatically.
19:47:05 <cwilso> shepazu: it's easier to get out of sync or miss times.
19:47:23 <cwilso> shepazu: (when not on regular telecons)
19:47:33 <olivier> q+
19:47:37 <olivier> ack roc
19:48:11 <cwilso> roc: the current time isn't ridiculous - it's that getting Asia, America and Europe on the call isn't really possible.
19:48:36 <cwilso> roc: not sure alternating times would help, if we want to use telecon time to resolve disputes.
19:48:47 <olivier> ack me
19:49:18 <cwilso> I would think you'd have to make sure that the protagonists were on the call, or the discussion slides to the next one.  But this may, as you say, be no help whatsoever.  :)
19:49:50 <cwilso> olivier: weekly is nice, because you don't have to think about whether there is a telecon.
19:49:58 <shepazu> q+
19:50:16 <cwilso> olivier: I do try to get the agenda out at least 24hrs in advance.  I still think weekly is the best approach.
19:50:26 <olivier> ack shep
19:51:05 <cwilso> shepazu: one aspect brought up on the list: are resolutions on telecons binding?
19:51:43 <cwilso> q+ to suggest that "binding" is a strong word - if there is good faith effort to put opinion on list beforehand, I'm not sure there's a problem.
19:52:05 <cwilso> shepazu: via email, I've rarely seen quick resolutions.
19:53:00 <cwilso> shepazu: I would suggest we DO come to resolutions on telecons, list has a week to reconsider/further argue - if still unsettled by end of week, schedule telecon with protagonists.
19:53:05 <cwilso> q-
19:53:19 <cwilso> (shepazu said pretty much what I was going to say)
19:53:24 <cwilso> (so: 1)
19:53:29 <cwilso> er, +1.
19:53:34 <roc> q+
19:53:36 <joe> q+
19:54:21 <cwilso> shepazu: we've had another telecon that's focused on administrivia rather than technical issues.  We should limit this in the future.
19:54:39 <cwilso> olivier: we'll try to do so in the future.
19:54:44 <olivier> ack roc
19:55:15 <cwilso> roc: you might want to start this approach by having a special telecon with the Opera guys - they seem to feel strongly, but they're not here.
19:55:30 <cwilso> olivier: ack.
19:55:35 <olivier> ack joe
19:56:14 <cwilso> joe: I agree with Doug that having this conversational context.  Looking forward to involving Opera and discussing their feedback.
19:56:50 <cwilso> olivier: this sounds like an appropriate time to wrap up for today.  I'll try to find a slot for a meeting with the Opera guys for the next week.
19:57:01 <cwilso> ACTION: Olivier to find a meeting time with Opera.
19:57:01 <trackbot> Sorry, amibiguous username (more than one match) - Olivier
19:57:01 <trackbot> Try using a different identifier, such as family name or username (eg. ot, folivier3)
19:57:19 <cwilso> bye all!
19:57:22 <Zakim> -joe
19:57:23 <Zakim> -Doug_Schepers
19:57:23 <Zakim> -olivier
19:57:24 <Zakim> -roc
19:57:26 <Zakim> -tross
19:57:27 <olivier> rrsagent, draft minutes
19:57:27 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/05/23-audio-minutes.html olivier
19:57:27 <Zakim> -crogers
19:57:29 <Zakim> -gabriel
19:57:34 <Zakim> -cwilso
19:57:48 <Zakim> -Clowis
19:57:49 <Zakim> RWC_Audio()3:00PM has ended
19:57:49 <Zakim> Attendees were gabriel, roc, +1.862.201.aaaa, cwilso, olivier, tross, +1.650.253.aabb, +1.978.314.aacc, joe, Doug_Schepers, crogers, Clowis
20:11:38 <olivier> rrsagent, make minutes
20:11:38 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/05/23-audio-minutes.html olivier
20:11:46 <olivier> rrsagent, make logs public
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