IRC log of wcag2ict on 2012-05-18

Timestamps are in UTC.

13:58:38 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #wcag2ict
13:58:38 [RRSAgent]
logging to
13:59:04 [Zakim]
13:59:08 [MichaelC]
meeting: WCAG2ICT Task Force
13:59:11 [MichaelC]
chair: Judy_Brewer
13:59:22 [MichaelC]
scribe: MichaelC
13:59:28 [Zakim]
13:59:53 [Zakim]
+ +1.202.447.aaaa
13:59:54 [MichaelC]
zakim, ??P4 is Loic_Martinez
13:59:54 [Zakim]
+Loic_Martinez; got it
14:00:01 [Zakim]
14:00:02 [MaryJo]
MaryJo has joined #wcag2ict
14:00:08 [korn]
korn has joined #wcag2ict
14:00:11 [MichaelC]
zakim, aaaa is Al_Hoffman
14:00:11 [Zakim]
+Al_Hoffman; got it
14:00:19 [MichaelC]
zakim, ??P5 is Jane_Vincent
14:00:19 [Zakim]
+Jane_Vincent; got it
14:00:20 [Zakim]
14:00:33 [Zakim]
14:00:39 [MichaelC]
zakim, ??P7 is Mike_Pluke
14:00:39 [Zakim]
+Mike_Pluke; got it
14:00:42 [Zakim]
14:00:46 [MichaelC]
zakim, ??P8 is Gregg_Vanderheiden
14:00:46 [Zakim]
+Gregg_Vanderheiden; got it
14:00:51 [Zakim]
+ +1.519.597.aabb
14:00:56 [mapluke]
mapluke has joined #wcag2ict
14:01:00 [MichaelC]
zakim, ??P6 is Janina_Sajka
14:01:00 [Zakim]
+Janina_Sajka; got it
14:01:11 [MichaelC]
zakim, aabb is John_Lee
14:01:11 [Zakim]
+John_Lee; got it
14:01:28 [greggvanderheiden]
greggvanderheiden has joined #wcag2ict
14:01:29 [Zakim]
14:01:38 [MichaelC]
zakim, Microsoft is Alex Li
14:01:38 [Zakim]
I don't understand 'Microsoft is Alex Li', MichaelC
14:01:41 [MichaelC]
zakim, Microsoft is Alex_Li
14:01:41 [Zakim]
+Alex_Li; got it
14:02:12 [Alex]
Alex has joined #wcag2ict
14:02:16 [Loicmn]
Loicmn has joined #wcag2ict
14:02:17 [janina]
janina has joined #wcag2ict
14:02:28 [Zakim]
14:02:29 [MichaelC]
rrsagent, make log world
14:02:35 [MichaelC]
zakim, Oracle is Peter_Korn
14:02:35 [Zakim]
+Peter_Korn; got it
14:02:36 [korn]
zakim, Oracle is Peter Korn
14:02:36 [Zakim]
I don't understand 'Oracle is Peter Korn', korn
14:03:01 [korn]
zakim, Oracle is Peter_Korn
14:03:01 [Zakim]
sorry, korn, I do not recognize a party named 'Oracle'
14:03:08 [Zakim]
+ +1.512.422.aacc
14:03:11 [Zakim]
- +1.512.422.aacc
14:03:16 [Zakim]
14:03:18 [korn]
I see that now, thanks MichaelC
14:03:39 [Judy]
zakim, who is on the phone?
14:03:39 [Zakim]
On the phone I see Judy, Cooper, Bruce_Bailey, Loic_Martinez, Al_Hoffman, Jane_Vincent, Mike_Pluke, Gregg_Vanderheiden, Janina_Sajka, John_Lee, Alex_Li, Peter_Korn,
14:03:43 [Zakim]
... Andrew_Kirkpatrick
14:03:43 [Zakim]
+ +0162859aadd
14:03:56 [AWK]
AWK has joined #wcag2ict
14:04:01 [MichaelC]
zakim, +01 is Kiran_Karja
14:04:01 [Zakim]
+Kiran_Karja; got it
14:04:30 [Zakim]
+ +1.512.255.aaee
14:05:25 [MaryJo]
MaryJo has joined #wcag2ict
14:05:34 [MichaelC]
zakim, aaee is Mary_Jo_Mueller
14:05:34 [Zakim]
+Mary_Jo_Mueller; got it
14:07:35 [janina]
Janina can
14:08:08 [Zakim]
14:08:23 [shadi]
shadi has joined #wcag2ict
14:08:26 [Zakim]
14:08:27 [Zakim]
14:08:33 [shadi]
zakim, code?
14:08:33 [Zakim]
the conference code is 2428 (tel:+1.617.761.6200, shadi
14:08:54 [korn]
New code for other room: 26631
14:09:00 [Zakim]
14:09:10 [Zakim]
14:09:23 [shadi]
thx peter
14:09:40 [korn]
I'm back in now on the other line
14:10:17 [shadi]
zakim, this is 26631
14:10:17 [Zakim]
shadi, Team_(cg)14:06Z is already associated with an irc channel; use 'move 26631 to here' if you mean to reassociate the channel
14:10:48 [korn]
Someone isn't muted who has a speakerphone line open.
14:14:16 [Zakim]
+ +1.617.401.aaff
14:16:49 [MichaelC]
zakim, aaff is Duff_Johnson
14:16:49 [Zakim]
+Duff_Johnson; got it
14:17:18 [MichaelC]
topic: Introductions
14:17:49 [MichaelC]
Judy Brewer, Director of WAI, Boston
14:18:11 [greggvanderheiden]
14:18:39 [MichaelC]
Bruce Bailey, US Access Board, Washington DC
14:18:45 [greggvanderheiden]
14:18:47 [MichaelC]
Loic Martinez, <missed>
14:19:05 [shadi]
14:19:09 [MichaelC]
Jane Vincent, AT lead, U Michigan Ann Arbor
14:19:10 [shadi]
14:19:16 [Loicmn]
Loic Martinez, Technical University of Madrid
14:19:39 [MichaelC]
Mike Pluke, chair ETSI, leading M-###
14:19:51 [shadi]
14:19:55 [MichaelC]
Gregg Vanderheiden, co-chair WCAG, TEITAC, Trace, Madison
14:20:13 [MichaelC]
John Lee, RIM, M-376, Toronto
14:20:54 [AWK]
I'm only on one line here
14:20:59 [AWK]
go on...
14:21:11 [MichaelC]
Mary Jo Mueller, IBM, Austin
14:21:30 [MichaelC]
Duff Johnson, NetCentric
14:21:34 [AWK]
Apparently I'm only audible to the 26631 call
14:21:56 [AWK]
I hear Janina
14:22:07 [korn]
I think the entire other line is muted on the main line now.
14:22:09 [janina]
I take it my audio didn't come through?
14:22:09 [AWK]
I heard alex also
14:22:13 [MichaelC]
zakim, unmute Andrew
14:22:13 [Zakim]
Andrew_Kirkpatrick should no longer be muted
14:22:53 [MichaelC]
Janina Sajka, chair Linux Open Accessibility, and PFWG, Washington DC
14:23:08 [MichaelC]
Andrew Kirkpatrick, Adobe, WCAG, TEITAC
14:23:25 [MichaelC]
Alex Li, Microsoft, WCAG, TEITAC
14:23:39 [MichaelC]
Peter Korn, Oracle, same as above
14:23:50 [MichaelC]
Al Hoffman, Homeland Security
14:23:55 [shadi]
ack me
14:24:17 [korn]
Is there another IRC meeting for the other channel?
14:24:22 [MichaelC]
Shadi Abou-Zahra, WAI, M-376, Europe
14:24:47 [MichaelC]
Kiran_Karja, Adobe Accessibility, London
14:25:23 [MichaelC]
Michael Cooper, WAI, WCAG
14:26:43 [MichaelC]
topic: Description of the group
14:27:22 [MichaelC]
jb: Mandate is to perform a technical review of how WCAG 2 maps to non-Web ICT
14:27:27 [MichaelC]
and product a non-normative document
14:27:44 [MichaelC]
do not plan to make statements about whether WCAG 2 *should* apply to those technologies
14:27:51 [MichaelC]
that is prerogative of other organizations
14:28:18 [MichaelC]
also not going to change WCAG itself
14:28:35 [MichaelC]
the goal is to have a circulatable draft in the next few months
14:28:46 [MichaelC]
want a lot of continuity from one discussion to the next
14:29:05 [MichaelC]
impacts participation, and is a reason for high time commitment
14:29:25 [MichaelC]
time commitment applies to individuals, not organizations shared among multiple individuals
14:30:14 [MichaelC]
we would prefer a single person from an organization be the direct participant, and any others serve just as offline backup, commenters, etc.
14:30:35 [MichaelC]
We've been looking for people who have extensive knowledge of the development of WCAG 2
14:30:55 [MichaelC]
or who have participated in US and European discussions of takeup of WCAG 2
14:31:13 [MichaelC]
people with both those sets of experience particularly helfpul
14:31:22 [MichaelC]
14:31:43 [MichaelC]
topic: W3C participation structures
14:32:00 [MichaelC]
jb: Many have worked with W3C, but some haven't and want to describe as applied to task force
14:32:16 [MichaelC]
W3C areas of work happen under Activities
14:32:25 [MichaelC]
in a specific Working Group that is defined by a charter
14:32:37 [MichaelC]
the charter is carefully prepared and reviewed by the hundreds of W3C Member organizations
14:33:06 [MichaelC]
Web Content Accessibility Guidelines Working Group (WCAG WG) is one of these
14:33:21 [MichaelC]
(charter linked from TF Work Statement)
14:34:03 [MichaelC]
the WG has ability to create Task Forces (TF) under it to work on items specifically relevant to its charter
14:34:25 [MichaelC]
W3C was specifically asked for help on the question of applicability of WCAG to non-Web ICT
14:34:48 [AWK]
Work statement::
14:34:52 [MichaelC]
this task force was formed to respond to that, with a carefully defined work statement
14:35:12 [MichaelC]
any outputs of the group must be approved by the sponsoring WG
14:35:27 [MichaelC]
i.e., WCAG has to approve and publish documents, those are not published by the TF directly
14:35:46 [MichaelC]
so the work we do is governed by W3C process, as enabled by the WCAG WG
14:36:16 [MichaelC]
one aspect of W3C process is the Patent Policy that enables royalty-free information sharing
14:36:30 [MichaelC]
to join the TF, you join the WCAG WG
14:36:41 [MichaelC]
which requires acceptance of the patent policy requirement
14:36:51 [MichaelC]
after you join the WG, you flag your interest in the TF
14:37:19 [MichaelC]
There are two ways to join a WG
14:37:30 [MichaelC]
1) Via Membership; 2) as Invited Expert
14:37:39 [MichaelC]
majority of people in this call are from W3C Member organizations
14:38:10 [MichaelC]
your Advisory Committee representative can nominate you
14:38:18 [MichaelC]
we can tell you if you don't know who that is
14:38:39 [MichaelC]
Invited Expert process is for people from organizations that do not have resources to be W3C Member
14:38:48 [MichaelC]
but have perspective that is particularly relevant to the work
14:39:07 [MichaelC]
we may have to have a discussion with you about your knowledge and affiliations
14:40:47 [MichaelC]
Your participation in this TF is for the expected limited lifetime of the TF
14:40:59 [MichaelC]
but welcome this being an entry to participation in other areas
14:41:11 [MichaelC]
some may find early on that other areas of work are more relevant
14:41:32 [MichaelC]
Keep in mind that you are a participant in the TF, not someone who speaks on behalf of it
14:42:00 [MichaelC]
Also be clear that the TF is not involved in regulatory work
14:42:14 [MichaelC]
please defer to facilitators and staff with respect to representations of the work
14:42:24 [MichaelC]
Andi Snow-Weaver, Mike Pluke, Judy Brewer, Michael Cooper
14:44:27 [MichaelC]
Thanks to people who helped get this going
14:44:34 [Alex]
14:44:40 [MichaelC]
Peter Korn, Gregg Vanderheiden, Andi Snow-Weaver
14:44:52 [MichaelC]
al: Are there people invited who not in this call?
14:45:02 [MichaelC]
jb: yes, some who couldn't attend at this time
14:45:20 [MichaelC]
think I've heard from everyone one way or the other, who was invited
14:45:24 [MichaelC]
but don't have a collated list yet
14:46:00 [MichaelC]
expect a few people in next week or two besides those on this call
14:46:07 [MichaelC]
but expect to begin working together early next week
14:46:21 [korn]
14:46:27 [MichaelC]
there will be a bit of flux initially but want a stable group to form moving ahead
14:46:30 [MichaelC]
ack a
14:46:32 [Alex]
14:46:33 [MichaelC]
ack k
14:47:03 [MichaelC]
pk: In addition to expertise in WCAG and familiarity with regulatory aspects
14:47:22 [MichaelC]
familiarity in applying accessibility frameworks, making applications and documents accessible would be very welcome
14:48:09 [MichaelC]
jb: Note we haven't sent a general call for participation
14:48:24 [MichaelC]
TFs normally draw their membership from the WG directly
14:48:52 [mapluke]
14:48:56 [MichaelC]
potential interest might be higher than for a typical TF, but we need to stay focused
14:49:10 [MichaelC]
please don't send invites around; instead, bring suggested members to our attention
14:49:18 [MichaelC]
ack m
14:49:53 [MichaelC]
mp: the above above requirements met by many of the people already here
14:50:35 [MichaelC]
topic: Process and collaboration tools
14:50:59 [Judy]
14:51:07 [MichaelC]
jb: Task Force Work Statement
14:51:35 [MichaelC]
is now a stable document
14:51:49 [MichaelC]
will update the liaison and leadership sections
14:53:18 [MichaelC]
in Approach section
14:53:31 [MichaelC]
looking at applicability of WCAG SC on non-Web ICT
14:53:36 [MichaelC]
will produce a WG Note
14:53:44 [MichaelC]
which is an informative document, is *not* a formal standard
14:53:56 [MichaelC]
may do some work in sub-teams of the TF
14:54:06 [MichaelC]
which report to the TF (which in turn reports to WCAG WG)
14:54:13 [MichaelC]
all drafts will be publicly visible
14:54:22 [MichaelC]
with multiple mechanism for comments
14:54:34 [MichaelC]
responses to comments prepared by the TF
14:54:41 [MichaelC]
in as quick as possible of a timeline
14:54:50 [MichaelC]
use TF as a dialog opportunity, then WG approves work
14:55:01 [MichaelC]
Timeline section is known aggressive
14:55:19 [MichaelC]
expect the short- and medium-term milestones to be defined in early work of the TF
14:55:36 [MichaelC]
work in Europe and US means we need a draft asap
14:55:48 [MichaelC]
and a reasonably complete outline by July
14:56:25 [MichaelC]
Communication has multiple means
14:56:29 [MichaelC]
expect twice-weekly meetings
14:56:41 [MichaelC]
mailing list publicly archived available for discussion
14:56:49 [MichaelC]
TF has a sub-page
14:56:58 [MichaelC]
that will be the home base for finding things out
14:57:17 [MichaelC]
will set up an action tracker and opinion survey tool
14:57:41 [MichaelC]
before meetings there will often be surveys to collect input before the meeting
14:57:48 [MichaelC]
you may be in the position of preparing things for comment
14:58:19 [MichaelC]
we find it good for people to put proposals out for discussion and collect feedback on list and in Web-Based Survey (WBS)
14:58:27 [MichaelC]
so there will be homework...
15:00:18 [MichaelC]
On the TF home page
15:00:22 [MichaelC]
announcements at the top
15:00:25 [MichaelC]
meeting information
15:00:44 [MichaelC]
teleconferences have a US number or use SIP
15:01:08 [MichaelC]
we use IRC for chat and minute-taking
15:01:13 [MichaelC]
links to help on SIP and IRC available
15:01:29 [MichaelC]
will need help scribing (taking minutes)
15:01:45 [MichaelC]
don't expect face-to-face meetings, though possible that could change
15:02:07 [MichaelC]
may have people join calls using interpreters / captions / relay services
15:02:22 [MichaelC]
which means we need to be careful of communication, not talking over each other, etc.
15:02:34 [MichaelC]
will add a references section
15:02:42 [MichaelC]
will have links to drafts
15:02:46 [MichaelC]
initial drafts in a Google site
15:03:54 [MichaelC]
jb: Status of drafts?
15:04:06 [MichaelC]
gv: there is one document, have incorporated input from others received so far
15:04:24 [Loicmn]
I'm sorry but I have to leave and I don't want to interrupt. Have a good session!
15:04:31 [Zakim]
15:05:13 [MichaelC]
ack b
15:05:25 [MichaelC]
bb: why using Google sites instead of wiki?
15:05:54 [MichaelC]
jb: let's come back in a minute, when GV introduces
15:06:05 [MichaelC]
MC, please inform about tools
15:13:02 [MichaelC]
<overview of mailing lists and infractructure available from the TF home page>
15:13:25 [MichaelC]
jb: We are going to start with some default meeting times
15:13:31 [MichaelC]
and then check how it's working
15:13:39 [MichaelC]
we are bridging continents
15:13:47 [MichaelC]
and have an editorial team with constraints
15:13:52 [MichaelC]
so our starter times are:
15:14:46 [MichaelC]
Tuesdays and Fridays at 10:00 am U.S. Eastern (14:00 UTC while North America in Daylight Savings Time)
15:15:42 [MichaelC]
topic: Starter draft documents
15:15:52 [MichaelC]
jb: Gregg Vanderheiden is one of the co-chairs of the WCAG WG
15:16:05 [MichaelC]
Loretta Guarino Reid is the other
15:17:00 [MichaelC]
gv: the survey (WBS) tool is used as a natural part of our meetings
15:17:08 [MichaelC]
think of it as a pre-staging of our weekly meeting
15:17:16 [MichaelC]
bring up items for discussion
15:17:21 [MichaelC]
and queue comments and feedback in advance
15:17:24 [MichaelC]
so meeting goes more quickly
15:17:34 [MichaelC]
ensures people have reviewed materials in advance
15:17:44 [Alex]
15:17:54 [MichaelC]
and gives chance to review each others' comments and prepare response
15:18:06 [MichaelC]
ack a
15:18:12 [MichaelC]
al: duration of calls?
15:18:19 [MichaelC]
jb: 90 minutes each
15:18:35 [MichaelC]
gv: we looked at a number of tools for document drafting
15:18:44 [MichaelC]
W3C wiki is not WYSIWYG
15:18:49 [MichaelC]
requires learning a text format
15:19:04 [MichaelC]
Google docs is easier to work with
15:19:06 [korn]
15:19:17 [korn]
Sorry, wrong one. I meant
15:19:29 [MichaelC]
there have been a lot of accessibility improvements
15:19:42 [MichaelC]
there are a bunch of pages available
15:19:48 [MichaelC]
each has ability to attach comments
15:19:58 [MichaelC]
it's publicly viewable, but not publicly editable
15:20:21 [MichaelC]
each item we cover is a separate page
15:20:31 [MichaelC]
so can attach documents and comments on just that topic
15:20:47 [MichaelC]
important to separate opinions of individuals from task force statements
15:21:11 [MichaelC]
so each page has a clear division
15:21:20 [MichaelC]
there is a section that has the consensus-based content
15:21:37 [MichaelC]
and a following section that has anything else
15:21:51 [MichaelC]
right now not much in the consensus area because we haven't started the process yet
15:22:38 [MichaelC]
we are copying in the Intent section from Understanding WCAG20
15:23:08 [MichaelC]
there is a section for contributions
15:24:37 [MichaelC]
jb: we'll work out practices for ensuring content appears in the right places
15:24:44 [MichaelC]
and will migrate content to W3C reasonably soon
15:24:53 [MichaelC]
gv: note the tool does track who makes what edit
15:25:01 [MichaelC]
jb: summary of content so far?
15:25:17 [MichaelC]
gv: right now we have an outline of what the document might look like
15:25:26 [MichaelC]
some proposed frontmatter and introductory text
15:26:05 [MichaelC]
each Principle, Guidelines, and Success Criterion from WCAG has a reflection in this document
15:26:44 [MichaelC]
with the consensus content, proposals, and issues / comments / questions / answers / discussion etc.
15:27:24 [MichaelC]
There are links in glossary to some items, may need expansion
15:28:06 [Alex]
15:28:31 [MichaelC]
topic: Wrap-up, continuation
15:28:33 [MichaelC]
jb: note this was an extremely introductory session
15:28:35 [MichaelC]
ack a
15:28:41 [MichaelC]
al: Will meetings have agenda?
15:28:47 [MichaelC]
jb: yes
15:29:01 [MichaelC]
though first meeting agenda will be shortly before
15:29:33 [korn]
15:29:36 [MichaelC]
bb: I have a document that compares WCAG language, TEITAC, and ANPRM language
15:29:40 [mapluke]
15:29:44 [MichaelC]
want to upload, don't want to email
15:30:04 [MichaelC]
jb: send to Gregg, Judy, MichaelC
15:30:24 [MichaelC]
we'll sort out where it seems best
15:30:31 [mapluke]
15:30:35 [MichaelC]
ack m
15:30:50 [MichaelC]
mp: we have a draft document as well
15:30:58 [MichaelC]
that explores some of the issues
15:31:12 [MichaelC]
it could serve as input to the work of this TF
15:31:27 [korn]
15:31:40 [Alex]
15:32:18 [MichaelC]
jb: the early input is extremely valuable
15:32:25 [MichaelC]
means there's a lot everyone will need to review
15:32:30 [MichaelC]
ack a
15:32:59 [MichaelC]
al: is the M376 content in the Google site?
15:33:11 [MichaelC]
gv: no, we can link to it but didn't want to copy over
15:34:00 [MichaelC]
jb: ok, we're about done
15:34:14 [Zakim]
15:34:17 [Zakim]
15:34:41 [Zakim]
15:35:18 [MichaelC]
will follow up on various things
15:36:01 [Zakim]
15:37:08 [Alex]
bye all
15:37:16 [greggvanderheiden]
greggvanderheiden has joined #wcag2ict
15:37:43 [Judy]
zakim, who's on the phone?
15:37:43 [Zakim]
On the phone I see Judy, Cooper, Bruce_Bailey, Mike_Pluke, Andrew_Kirkpatrick, Duff_Johnson
15:37:51 [MichaelC]
scribeOptions: -scribeOnly, -implicitContinuations
15:37:58 [MichaelC]
rrsagent, make minutes
15:37:58 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate MichaelC
15:38:22 [janina]
janina has left #wcag2ict
15:38:27 [mapluke]
Bye all
15:38:28 [Zakim]
15:38:31 [Zakim]
15:38:32 [Zakim]
15:38:45 [Judy]
zakim, who's on the phone?
15:38:45 [Zakim]
On the phone I see Judy, Mike_Pluke, Andrew_Kirkpatrick
15:39:05 [MichaelC]
s/scribeOptions: -scribeOnly, -implicitContinuations//
15:39:18 [MichaelC]
scribeOptions: -scribeOnly -implicitContinuations
15:39:23 [MichaelC]
rrsagent, make minutes
15:39:23 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate MichaelC
15:39:31 [Zakim]
15:42:47 [Zakim]
15:43:11 [MichaelC]
zakim, drop Mike
15:43:11 [Zakim]
Mike_Pluke is being disconnected
15:43:13 [Zakim]
Team_(wcag2ict)14:00Z has ended
15:43:13 [Zakim]
Attendees were Judy, Cooper, Bruce_Bailey, +1.202.447.aaaa, Loic_Martinez, Al_Hoffman, Jane_Vincent, Mike_Pluke, Gregg_Vanderheiden, +1.519.597.aabb, Janina_Sajka, John_Lee,
15:43:13 [Zakim]
... Alex_Li, Peter_Korn, +1.512.422.aacc, Andrew_Kirkpatrick, +0162859aadd, Kiran_Karja, +1.512.255.aaee, Mary_Jo_Mueller, +1.617.401.aaff, Duff_Johnson
15:46:36 [MichaelC]
present: Judy, Cooper, Bruce_Bailey, Loic_Martinez, Al_Hoffman, Jane_Vincent, Mike_Pluke, Gregg_Vanderheiden, Janina_Sajka, John_Lee, Alex_Li, Peter_Korn, Andrew_Kirkpatrick, Kiran_Karja, Mary_Jo_Mueller, Duff_Johnson, Peter_Korn, Shadi
15:46:39 [MichaelC]
rrsagent, make minutes
15:46:39 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate MichaelC
17:18:15 [korn]
korn has left #wcag2ict
18:33:57 [Zakim]
Zakim has left #wcag2ict
18:42:32 [greggvanderheiden]
greggvanderheiden has joined #wcag2ict