IRC log of rdf-wg on 2012-05-16

Timestamps are in UTC.

14:57:20 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #rdf-wg
14:57:20 [RRSAgent]
logging to http://www.w3.org/2012/05/16-rdf-wg-irc
14:57:22 [trackbot]
RRSAgent, make logs world
14:57:22 [Zakim]
Zakim has joined #rdf-wg
14:57:24 [trackbot]
Zakim, this will be 73394
14:57:24 [Zakim]
ok, trackbot; I see SW_RDFWG()11:00AM scheduled to start in 3 minutes
14:57:25 [trackbot]
Meeting: RDF Working Group Teleconference
14:57:25 [trackbot]
Date: 16 May 2012
14:57:54 [Zakim]
SW_RDFWG()11:00AM has now started
14:58:01 [Zakim]
+pfps
14:58:57 [ivan]
zakim, dial ivan-voip
14:58:57 [Zakim]
ok, ivan; the call is being made
14:59:00 [Zakim]
+Ivan
14:59:03 [Zakim]
+??P1
14:59:19 [pchampin]
pchampin has joined #rdf-wg
14:59:23 [ivan]
scribenick: pfps
14:59:28 [pchampin]
zakim, who is on the phone?
14:59:28 [Zakim]
On the phone I see pfps, Ivan, ??P1
14:59:32 [ivan]
scribe: Peter
14:59:33 [Zakim]
+ +1.707.861.aaaa
14:59:35 [pchampin]
zakim, ??P1 is me
14:59:35 [Zakim]
+pchampin; got it
14:59:43 [gavinc]
Zakim, aaaa is me
14:59:43 [Zakim]
+gavinc; got it
14:59:47 [davidwood]
Zakim, please let me in.
14:59:47 [Zakim]
I don't understand 'please let me in', davidwood
15:00:27 [Zakim]
+davidwood
15:00:39 [PatH]
PatH has joined #rdf-wg
15:00:47 [Zakim]
+ +1.603.897.aabb
15:00:58 [Arnaud]
Arnaud has joined #rdf-wg
15:01:09 [AndyS]
AndyS has joined #rdf-wg
15:01:13 [Zakim]
+ +31.20.598.aacc
15:01:23 [sandro]
sandro has changed the topic to: RDF Agenda http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/wiki/Meetings:Telecon2012.05.16
15:01:26 [Guus]
zakim, +31 is me
15:01:26 [Zakim]
+Guus; got it
15:01:28 [Souri]
Souri has joined #rdf-wg
15:01:36 [gavinc]
Zakim, who is talking?
15:01:37 [Zakim]
+Sandro
15:01:46 [Zakim]
gavinc, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: pfps (52%), pchampin (35%)
15:01:53 [Zakim]
+ +1.408.996.aadd
15:02:04 [Zakim]
+ +1.617.324.aaee
15:02:15 [ericP]
Zakim, aaee is me
15:02:15 [Zakim]
+ericP; got it
15:02:35 [ivan]
zakim, aadd is Arnaud
15:02:35 [Zakim]
+Arnaud; got it
15:02:40 [Guus]
zakim, who is here?
15:02:40 [Zakim]
On the phone I see pfps, Ivan, pchampin, gavinc, davidwood, +1.603.897.aabb, Guus, Sandro, Arnaud, ericP
15:02:44 [Zakim]
On IRC I see Souri, AndyS, Arnaud, PatH, pchampin, Zakim, RRSAgent, pfps, Guus, gavinc, mischat, MacTed, danbri, LeeF, NickH, ivan, SteveH, manu1, davidwood, yvesr, manu, trackbot,
15:02:47 [Zakim]
... sandro, ericP
15:02:49 [Zakim]
+??P12
15:02:54 [AndyS]
zakim, ??P12 is me
15:02:54 [Zakim]
+AndyS; got it
15:03:02 [Souri]
zakim, aabb is me
15:03:02 [Zakim]
+Souri; got it
15:03:16 [Souri]
zakim, who is here?
15:03:16 [Zakim]
On the phone I see pfps, Ivan, pchampin, gavinc, davidwood, Souri, Guus, Sandro, Arnaud, ericP, AndyS
15:03:18 [Zakim]
On IRC I see Souri, AndyS, Arnaud, PatH, pchampin, Zakim, RRSAgent, pfps, Guus, gavinc, mischat, MacTed, danbri, LeeF, NickH, ivan, SteveH, manu1, davidwood, yvesr, manu, trackbot,
15:03:18 [Zakim]
... sandro, ericP
15:03:22 [pfps]
Admin
15:03:27 [Zakim]
+ +1.617.553.aaff
15:03:31 [LeeF]
zakim, aaff is me
15:03:31 [Zakim]
+LeeF; got it
15:03:46 [LeeF]
hi, guus!
15:03:47 [Zakim]
+OpenLink_Software
15:03:57 [MacTed]
Zakim, OpenLink_Software is temporarily me
15:03:58 [Zakim]
+MacTed; got it
15:03:59 [MacTed]
Zakim, mute me
15:03:59 [Zakim]
MacTed should now be muted
15:04:01 [pfps]
PROPOSED: accept the minutes of the 9 May telecon
15:04:06 [pfps]
+1
15:04:10 [ivan]
+1
15:04:13 [pchampin]
+1
15:04:15 [PatH]
PatH will be just on IRC until we get past the turtles.
15:04:21 [pfps]
RESOLVED: accept the minutes of the 9 May telecon:
15:04:22 [PatH]
_1 by the way
15:04:31 [PatH]
+1 whoops
15:04:50 [pfps]
Action Items
15:04:50 [trackbot]
Sorry, bad ACTION syntax
15:05:02 [tbaker]
tbaker has joined #rdf-wg
15:05:09 [ivan]
s/ivan/Pat/
15:05:10 [pfps]
guus: action 169 done
15:05:10 [Zakim]
+??P20
15:05:13 [danbri]
zakim, ??P20 is danbri
15:05:13 [Zakim]
+danbri; got it
15:05:27 [ivan]
ivan has left #rdf-wg
15:05:34 [gavinc]
ACTION-167?
15:05:36 [Zakim]
+??P21
15:05:40 [Zakim]
+Tom_Baker (was ??P21)
15:05:43 [ivan]
ivan has joined #rdf-wg
15:05:43 [ivan]
ivan has left #rdf-wg
15:05:52 [AlexHall]
AlexHall has joined #rdf-wg
15:06:23 [ivan]
ivan has joined #rdf-wg
15:06:33 [Zakim]
+ +1.443.212.aagg
15:06:40 [AlexHall]
zakim, aagg is me
15:06:40 [Zakim]
+AlexHall; got it
15:06:43 [gavinc]
Overcome by events
15:06:49 [pfps]
guus: status of action 167?
15:06:58 [pfps]
gavin: done!
15:07:13 [zwu2]
zwu2 has joined #rdf-wg
15:07:20 [zwu2]
zakim, code?
15:07:20 [Zakim]
the conference code is 73394 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), zwu2
15:07:52 [danbri]
regrets for next week from me, I'll be teaching at eswc summer school
15:07:53 [pfps]
david: we need a new scribe list
15:08:14 [Zakim]
+ +1.650.265.aahh
15:08:26 [pfps]
guus: need to update on who is attending the call
15:08:40 [pfps]
ACTION david: update scribe list
15:08:40 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-171 - Update scribe list [on David Wood - due 2012-05-23].
15:08:43 [zwu2]
zakim, +1.650.265.aahh is me
15:08:43 [Zakim]
+zwu2; got it
15:09:09 [pfps]
guus: next meeting is next week
15:09:27 [pfps]
Turtle LC decision
15:09:38 [pfps]
guus: there was some discussion on grammar rules
15:10:22 [gavinc]
[ <p> <o> . ]
15:10:36 [pfps]
gavin: issue 19 - allow top-level blank nodes
15:10:37 [gavinc]
[ <p> <o> . ] <p> <o> .
15:11:05 [pfps]
gavin: agreement from a year ago, but the change was apparently lost, now regained
15:11:20 [pfps]
guus: no dissent seen, any discussion now?
15:11:53 [PatH]
What is their scope? Should make this very clear.
15:12:18 [PatH]
Im guessing the document.
15:12:22 [pfps]
gavin: this was resolved quite some time ago, this discussion is just a reminder
15:12:27 [PatH]
OK.
15:12:47 [pfps]
pfps: the scope is just like any other blank node, the graph
15:13:05 [gavinc]
@prefix <example>
15:13:07 [gavinc]
@prefix <example> .
15:13:09 [pfps]
gavin: null prefix issue
15:13:21 [gavinc]
<bob> knows <alice>
15:13:27 [gavinc]
exampleknows
15:13:59 [pfps]
gavin: adding bare words to Turtle is a big change
15:14:00 [LeeF]
I'm against barewords in turtle. cygri said he was too
15:14:05 [AlexHall]
if i say "prefix foo: <bar>." -- is the prefix "foo" or "foo:"? (i.e. is the colon part of the prefix?)
15:14:16 [Souri]
me too (against that is)
15:14:22 [ericP]
i'd say that the key is the empty string instead of NULL
15:14:43 [gavinc]
@vocab <asdf> .
15:14:46 [pfps]
gavin: if this happens, then it should be done in some other way, for example, with a different keyword
15:14:46 [sandro]
gavinc: Maybe use @vocab for this kind of thing
15:15:02 [pfps]
gavin: one reason to do this is to be more like schema.org
15:15:24 [pfps]
guus: most people agree with Gavin
15:15:53 [pfps]
sandro: I was disagreeing, but no longer, and @vocab would be the way to go, if we do go
15:16:04 [sandro]
(or at least seems reasonable.)
15:16:19 [pfps]
gavin: no problem with @vocab as an extension
15:16:32 [pfps]
gavin: nothing in document (yet)
15:16:47 [pfps]
david: how does schema.org fit in?
15:17:08 [danbri]
q+ re microdata/rdfa
15:17:12 [pfps]
gavin: schema.org (actually microformats) treat bare words as attaching to some vocabulary
15:17:25 [pfps]
gavin: discussion with schema.org might result in some change
15:17:33 [pfps]
s/microformats/microdata/
15:17:34 [sandro]
q+ to talk about "extensions to turtle"/"punting down the road"
15:17:43 [pfps]
dan: schema.org is the only use of microdata
15:17:55 [pfps]
dan: rdfa 1.1 light is very close to schema.org
15:18:21 [pfps]
dan: schema.org may accept rdfa 1.1 light, which may reduce use of microdata
15:18:36 [sandro]
ack danbri
15:18:36 [Zakim]
danbri, you wanted to discuss microdata/rdfa
15:18:38 [danbri]
yup, just don't worry too heavily about microdata
15:18:41 [pfps]
guus: it looks as if gavin's decision is fine
15:18:48 [danbri]
(it is what it is; i don't expect it to change a great deal)
15:19:21 [pfps]
sandro: Turtle isn't going to have extensions, so talk about that won't do
15:19:45 [pfps]
gavin: But there is not yet an error conformance for Turtle
15:19:54 [sandro]
(me said that much more softly than it was transcribed!)
15:20:48 [pfps]
gavin: little support for BASE and PREFIX with out @
15:21:13 [pfps]
gavin: to align with SPARQL we would have to allow any-case
15:21:25 [AndyS]
And 'a'
15:21:33 [pfps]
gavin: right now @base has to be all lower case
15:21:47 [gavinc]
true and false are also lower case
15:21:49 [sandro]
gavin: In turtle, @prefix is lowercase
15:21:57 [pfps]
david: WG decided to align Turtle and SPARQL where possible
15:22:43 [pfps]
Sandro: but that was about aligning graph parts, so this is only in the spirit of the decision
15:22:52 [Zakim]
-zwu2
15:23:27 [pfps]
guus: I would like this to be a feature at risk, but there has to be a feature to remove if so
15:23:36 [Zakim]
+zwu2
15:23:47 [pfps]
gavin: do we need a new LC for conformance anyway?
15:24:00 [pfps]
ivan: then we can't do last call
15:24:07 [gavinc]
http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/rdf/raw-file/default/rdf-turtle/index.html#sec-conformance
15:24:14 [PatH]
pfps, say 'naked words'
15:24:27 [pfps]
sandro: procedurally possible, but not a good idea
15:24:42 [pfps]
gavin: no test suite
15:24:56 [pfps]
sandro: don't need a test suite
15:25:01 [sandro]
sandro: it's not appropriate to go to LC planning on a second LC2
15:25:56 [pfps]
gavin: section 9 includes the test suite by reference, so I thought that that was part of the document
15:26:29 [pfps]
sandro: normally conformance is the design, not the test suit
15:26:41 [pfps]
sandro: passing the test suite does not pass conformance
15:27:10 [ericP]
-> http://www.w3.org/TR/rdf-sparql-query/#conformance SPARQL Conformance
15:27:11 [Arnaud]
well, it may
15:27:29 [ivan]
zakim, who is noisy?
15:27:40 [Zakim]
ivan, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: pfps (50%), Sandro (9%), ericP (78%)
15:28:00 [pfps]
eric: SPARQL has a very short conformance section
15:28:08 [pfps]
sandro: which version?
15:28:20 [pfps]
eric: see above
15:28:39 [pfps]
guus: so we should put something like that in the document
15:28:56 [pfps]
gavin: I can rewrite the conformance section
15:29:56 [pfps]
sandro: turtle test suite is in the wrong place - it needs to be a different directory
15:30:08 [ivan]
+1 to sandro
15:30:31 [pfps]
gavin: the test suite is an accompanying document
15:31:06 [pfps]
sandro: RDF 2004 has a TR test suite, but that isn't current practice
15:31:44 [pfps]
gavin: what about calling it a set of examples?
15:32:09 [gavinc]
pfps, that's ericP talking btw ;)
15:32:16 [pfps]
sandro: examples linking to files is good, and this can be in TR space
15:32:21 [pfps]
s/gavin/ericP/
15:32:52 [sandro]
Yes, Gavin, I see http://www.w3.org/TR/turtle/tests/ .... :-(
15:33:07 [pfps]
eric: test suites are finallized fairly early
15:33:38 [pfps]
ivan: no, they can even grow after REC, just need something frozen for process
15:33:57 [pfps]
guus: can we defer this until later?
15:34:01 [ericP]
sure, we'll be about to go to LC for every
15:34:04 [ericP]
ever
15:34:28 [pfps]
sandro: LC doesn't need all the details of the test suite
15:34:47 [pfps]
gavin: what to do about BASE and PREFIX?
15:35:07 [pfps]
guus: feature at risk, to obviate the need for a second last call
15:35:16 [AndyS]
Exactly as SPARQL?
15:35:33 [pfps]
guus: gavin, is this OK by you
15:36:04 [pfps]
gavin: it is partly a matter of readability - doesn't matter for SPARQL
15:36:23 [pfps]
andy: SPARQL update alllows redefining prefixes
15:36:38 [pfps]
gavin: can you see the declarations in long documents?
15:37:30 [sandro]
STRAWPOLL: Add an AT RISK feature to Turtle, which gives SPARQL-like alternatives to @prefix and @base, namely case-insensitive PREFIX and BASE, with no period at the end of those lines.
15:37:48 [pfps]
no period?
15:38:02 [pfps]
andy: SPARQL has no . at end of line
15:38:14 [gavinc]
-0.999
15:38:26 [pfps]
david: I want consistency
15:39:05 [pfps]
andy: either SPARQL or Turtle
15:39:19 [pfps]
david: so no @ then no . ??
15:39:35 [pfps]
sandro: that's as per the straw poll
15:39:51 [gavinc]
pReFiX prefix <a> PrEfIx prefix2: <b> @prefix :prefix3 <c> .
15:40:06 [pfps]
guus: that's ugle
15:40:18 [sandro]
david: This would not break any old turtle.
15:40:30 [ivan]
s/ugle/ugly/
15:41:10 [ericP]
obfuscated turtle contest?
15:41:16 [sandro]
So you can have ONE text you cut/paste in SPARQL *and* TURTLE.
15:41:40 [pfps]
david: only useful for compatability, otherwise useless
15:42:10 [pfps]
gavin: but SPARQL doesn't allow prefixes throughout, which produces a subtle issue
15:43:00 [pfps]
sandro: prefixes in middle is bad practice, but this allows one prefix stuff for both SPARQL and Turtle
15:43:20 [pfps]
guus: time for strawpoll
15:43:23 [sandro]
STRAWPOLL: Add an AT RISK feature to Turtle, which gives SPARQL-like alternatives to @prefix and @base, namely case-insensitive PREFIX and BASE, with no period at the end of those lines.
15:43:27 [sandro]
+1
15:43:29 [ivan]
+1
15:43:38 [MacTed]
+0
15:43:44 [pfps]
-0, as I'll be against it later
15:43:44 [gavinc]
-0.7 ... I'm a bit more convinced
15:43:48 [ericP]
+1
15:43:54 [AndyS]
+0.2
15:43:54 [davidwood]
+0
15:43:57 [danbri]
+0
15:44:00 [Souri]
-0 (refrain)
15:44:02 [Arnaud]
0
15:44:03 [pchampin]
+0
15:44:05 [tbaker]
0
15:44:07 [SteveH]
0
15:44:17 [zwu2]
+0
15:44:27 [AlexHall]
+0
15:44:35 [pfps]
guus: even so, let's do a feature at risk, because it can be removed later
15:44:58 [pfps]
guus: OK, gavin?
15:45:03 [pfps]
gavin: ok, ok, grumble, grumble
15:45:24 [pfps]
gavin: but I'll live
15:45:26 [sandro]
RESOLVED: Add an AT RISK feature to Turtle, which gives SPARQL-like alternatives to @prefix and @base, namely case-insensitive PREFIX and BASE, with no period at the end of those lines.
15:45:44 [pfps]
guus: grammar rule issues?
15:45:53 [gavinc]
http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/rdf/raw-file/default/rdf-turtle/index.html#sec-grammar-grammar
15:46:28 [pfps]
gavin: turtle grammar should be updated
15:46:55 [pfps]
gavin: turtle grammar has been updated to reflect discussions
15:47:04 [pfps]
eric: what about yakker work
15:47:34 [pfps]
gavin: turtle isn't as complex as sparql, so it doesn't need all that
15:47:40 [pfps]
eric: ok
15:48:08 [pfps]
guus: let's delay for a week and schedule a formal decision next week
15:48:13 [pfps]
guus: OK?
15:48:16 [sandro]
q+ to make little grammar comment
15:48:30 [AndyS]
Do remove the [*s] numbering style - it will change :-(
15:48:46 [pfps]
gavin: SPARQL form prefixes only without the dot?
15:48:56 [pfps]
guus: yes, that was the proposal
15:49:23 [pfps]
gavin: numbering will go
15:50:05 [pfps]
gavin: hyperlinks might be possible, linking to the name of the production
15:50:30 [pfps]
andy: SPARQL isn't at LC, so there is a slight risk
15:51:13 [pfps]
guus: thanks to the editors
15:51:22 [pfps]
RDF Concepts WD
15:51:44 [pfps]
guus: richard is not here, but there is a list to look at
15:52:02 [pfps]
guus: pending review issues
15:52:04 [ivan]
-> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-wg/2012May/0222.html Richard's mail
15:52:31 [pfps]
guus: issue-66 XSD datatype maps
15:52:38 [ivan]
Issue-66?
15:52:38 [trackbot]
ISSUE-66 -- Update XSD datatype map with new XSD 1.1 datatypes -- pending review
15:52:38 [trackbot]
http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/issues/66
15:52:59 [pfps]
guus: no further discussion, to we will close this one
15:53:08 [pfps]
s/to/so/
15:53:14 [ivan]
ISSUE-86?
15:53:14 [trackbot]
ISSUE-86 -- Incompatible definitions of “graph equivalence” between RDF Concepts and RDF Semantics -- pending review
15:53:14 [trackbot]
http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/issues/86
15:53:38 [pfps]
guus: issue-86, divergent definitions of graph equivalence
15:53:57 [pfps]
guus: no discussion, so this one is closed as well
15:54:01 [ivan]
ISSUE-13?
15:54:01 [trackbot]
ISSUE-13 -- Review RDF XML Literals -- pending review
15:54:01 [trackbot]
http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/issues/13
15:54:25 [pfps]
guus: issue-13, xml literal, had some discussion
15:54:56 [mischat]
mischat has joined #rdf-wg
15:55:22 [pfps]
guus: ivan had some comments
15:55:41 [pfps]
ivan: there was a long discussion
15:55:58 [pfps]
ivan: the end was a clean proposal that is now in Concepts
15:56:29 [pfps]
ivan: this appeared to be acceptable to the WG
15:56:37 [Zakim]
+PatH
15:56:41 [pfps]
guus: no discussion, so this issue will be closed
15:56:48 [PatH]
zakim, mute me
15:56:49 [Zakim]
PatH should now be muted
15:57:16 [ivan]
ISSUE-63?
15:57:16 [trackbot]
ISSUE-63 -- Introduce an HTML5 datatype -- open
15:57:16 [trackbot]
http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/issues/63
15:57:28 [pfps]
guus: ISSUE-63, HTML datatype
15:57:36 [gavinc]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-wg/2012May/0222.html
15:57:50 [sandro]
ericP, gavinc -- isn't this wrong? BLANK_NODE_LABEL::= '_:' PN_CHARS_U | [0-9] ((PN_CHARS | '.')* PN_CHARS)? There should be parens around PN_CHARS_U | [0-9].
15:58:19 [pfps]
ivan: canonicalization ....
15:58:53 [pfps]
ivan: should there be equality on the value space? yes
15:59:11 [pfps]
ivan: internationalization group is interested here
15:59:24 [gavinc]
sandro, sigh, yess... [135s] BLANK_NODE_LABEL ::= '_:' ( PN_CHARS_U | [0-9] ) ((PN_CHARS|'.')* PN_CHARS)? :(
15:59:41 [gavinc]
see https://github.com/norcalrdf/pymantic/blob/master/pymantic/scripts/bnf2html
15:59:46 [pfps]
ivan: lexical equality doesn't survive beautification
16:00:16 [pfps]
ivan: my view is that we accept HTML datatypes as optional
16:00:54 [Guus]
PROPSED to accept the resolution to ISSUE 63 as proposed in http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-wg/2012May/0222.html
16:01:15 [ivan]
PROPOSED: to accept the resolution to ISSUE 63 as proposed in http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-wg/2012May/0222.html
16:01:22 [PatH]
+1
16:01:23 [ivan]
+1
16:01:24 [pfps]
guus: discussion?
16:01:32 [pfps]
+0
16:01:39 [gavinc]
+1 without canonical mapping
16:01:48 [tbaker]
0
16:02:21 [ivan]
PROPOSED: to accept the resolution to ISSUE 63 as proposed in http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-wg/2012May/0222.html but without the definition of the canonical mapping
16:02:28 [davidwood]
+1
16:02:29 [pfps]
+0
16:02:31 [ivan]
+1
16:02:33 [zwu2]
+0
16:02:36 [MacTed]
+0
16:02:38 [PatH]
+1
16:02:39 [pchampin]
+1
16:02:40 [SteveH]
+1
16:02:41 [gavinc]
+1
16:02:46 [tbaker]
+0
16:02:50 [sandro]
+1
16:02:55 [ivan]
RESOLVED: to accept the resolution to ISSUE 63 as proposed in http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-wg/2012May/0222.html but without the definition of the canonical mapping
16:03:17 [pfps]
ivan: someone should respond to the I14N WG
16:03:24 [Arnaud]
belated +1 :)
16:03:36 [pfps]
ACTION ivan: tell I14N WG about HTML 5 resolution
16:03:36 [trackbot]
Sorry, amibiguous username (more than one match) - ivan
16:03:36 [trackbot]
Try using a different identifier, such as family name or username (eg. ivan, imikhail)
16:03:46 [Souri]
Gavin, in N-Triple originally (http://www.w3.org/TR/rdf-testcases/#ntrip_grammar), EBNF for blank node label was: name ::= [A-Za-z][A-Za-z0-9]*
16:04:54 [gavinc]
Souri, yes, blank nodes in N-Triples are not exactly the same as in Test Cases
16:05:38 [PatH]
track me if you can
16:05:45 [Souri]
So, the first character had to be Alpha earlier, but we are now going to allow AlphaNumeric as the first character -- just confirming.
16:06:06 [pfps]
guus: issue 87
16:06:14 [gavinc]
Souri, correct.
16:06:21 [sandro]
gavin, have you seen http://railroad.my28msec.com/rr/ui (I discovered it yesterday -- it makes railroad diagrams in SVG from BNF.)
16:06:27 [pfps]
guus: issue 87 check datatypes
16:06:44 [PatH]
+q
16:06:46 [davidwood]
Ivan's action is at https://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/actions/172
16:06:51 [PatH]
zakim, unmute me
16:06:51 [Zakim]
PatH should no longer be muted
16:06:59 [sandro]
ack sandro
16:06:59 [Zakim]
sandro, you wanted to talk about "extensions to turtle"/"punting down the road" and to make little grammar comment
16:07:00 [Guus]
ack sandro
16:07:22 [pfps]
path: comment back from OWL WG?
16:07:40 [PatH]
zakim, mute me
16:07:40 [Zakim]
PatH should now be muted
16:07:43 [pfps]
pfps: no substantive comment so we can proceed
16:08:54 [pfps]
PROPOSAL: Close ISSUE-87 without further action as per http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-wg/2012May/0221.html
16:09:01 [pfps]
+1
16:09:07 [gavinc]
+1
16:09:15 [PatH]
+1
16:09:16 [ivan]
+1
16:09:18 [MacTed]
+1
16:09:18 [danbri]
+1
16:09:18 [sandro]
+1
16:09:26 [pfps]
RESOLVED: Close ISSUE-87 without further action as per http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-wg/2012May/0221.html
16:09:31 [tbaker]
+1
16:09:52 [zwu2]
+1
16:10:01 [pfps]
PROPOSAL: Resolve ISSUE-88 by adding xsd:duration to the list of supported XSD datatypes in RDF 1.1 as per http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-wg/2012May/0221.html
16:10:22 [pfps]
+0
16:10:31 [PatH]
+1
16:10:33 [AlexHall]
+1
16:10:37 [Arnaud]
+1
16:10:37 [gavinc]
+1 aligns with <time> model in HTML5 as well
16:10:38 [davidwood]
+1
16:10:39 [ivan]
+1
16:10:41 [zwu2]
0
16:10:54 [MacTed]
+1
16:10:59 [pchampin]
+1
16:11:09 [pfps]
RESOLVED: Resolve ISSUE-88 by adding xsd:duration to the list of supported XSD datatypes in RDF 1.1 as per http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-wg/2012May/0221.html
16:11:27 [davidwood]
+1
16:11:41 [PatH]
+0 is no objection, 0 is really dont care, -0 is no formal objection but yuck.
16:11:43 [davidwood]
Apache voting process (definition of numbers): http://www.apache.org/foundation/voting.html
16:11:44 [pfps]
guus: leave formal decision on WD for next week
16:11:57 [tbaker]
http://www.apache.org/foundation/voting.html +0: "I don't feel strongly about it, but I'm okay with this'
16:12:05 [pfps]
guus: 4 minutes left
16:12:20 [pfps]
what about "space" vs "data space"?
16:12:35 [sandro]
http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/rdf/raw-file/default/rdf-spaces/index.html#
16:12:50 [pfps]
guus: please look at RDF spaces document from Sandro and determine where you stand
16:13:15 [PatH]
I owe Sandro some semantics input.
16:13:16 [AndyS]
I would like to see the key points extracted to be clear what's most important and what's editorial/unfinished.
16:13:30 [sandro]
I think those are clearly marked in the draft.....
16:14:04 [pfps]
guus: some of these issues will be discussed next week
16:14:06 [AndyS]
sandro - no - ones keep coming up that aren't highlighted.
16:14:34 [sandro]
like what....?
16:14:35 [pfps]
sandro: I edited agenda to include more context
16:14:37 [PatH]
peter needs some tech input.
16:14:49 [pfps]
guus: five more minutes?
16:15:00 [AndyS]
fine
16:15:05 [gavinc]
+1 to extending for 5 minutes a conversation that has been going on for more than 8 years ;)
16:15:07 [PatH]
+5
16:15:26 [sandro]
PROPOSED: Close ISSUE-5 ("Should we define Graph Literal datatypes?"), saying No, we should not.
16:15:32 [pfps]
guus: let's look at the first three proposals
16:15:53 [gavinc]
+1 No graph literals
16:16:01 [pfps]
q+
16:16:05 [sandro]
+0 given practical issues, yeah, I guess these are not our best option.
16:16:14 [PatH]
q-
16:16:16 [Souri]
+1 No Graph Literals
16:16:58 [MacTed]
Zakim, unmute me
16:16:58 [Zakim]
MacTed should no longer be muted
16:17:01 [danbri]
(I didn't think agendas bound us that strongly)
16:17:03 [gavinc]
-1 to more freaking strawpolls
16:17:19 [pfps]
guus: issue 5 graph literals - there have been no proposals for this
16:17:22 [Arnaud]
why is it a problem?
16:17:30 [pfps]
pfps: I don't remember that resolving was on the agenda
16:17:33 [gavinc]
We've had strawpolls on these issues at least 3 times in the past
16:17:57 [Zakim]
-AndyS
16:17:58 [LeeF]
I don't understand at all how you can read the agenda and not understand that we'd be trying to resolve these proposals.
16:18:12 [pfps]
guus: agenda said straw polls, and maybe resolution
16:18:43 [pfps]
guus: as there was some ambiguity we should defer to next week
16:18:49 [zwu2]
Got to go. Bye
16:18:54 [PatH]
Anyone who grew up with cattle knows that too much straw has only one inevitable product.
16:18:59 [Zakim]
-zwu2
16:19:00 [Zakim]
+??P59
16:19:04 [pfps]
guus: adjourn, and next week will be about named graphs
16:19:05 [Zakim]
-Tom_Baker
16:19:07 [Zakim]
-danbri
16:19:07 [Zakim]
-ericP
16:19:08 [Zakim]
-Arnaud
16:19:08 [AndyS]
zakim, ??P59 is me
16:19:08 [Zakim]
+AndyS; got it
16:19:10 [Zakim]
-LeeF
16:19:14 [Zakim]
-Souri
16:19:15 [MacTed]
Zakim, mute AndyS
16:19:16 [Zakim]
-AlexHall
16:19:16 [Zakim]
AndyS should now be muted
16:19:17 [Zakim]
-PatH
16:19:23 [AlexHall]
RRSAgent, make records public
16:19:34 [Zakim]
-pchampin
16:19:36 [Zakim]
-Ivan
16:19:42 [AlexHall]
pfps, http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/wiki/Scribes - directions at top
16:20:15 [AndyS]
For the record ... "not difficult"
16:20:21 [Zakim]
-Sandro
16:20:23 [Zakim]
-davidwood
16:20:25 [Zakim]
-MacTed
16:20:31 [Zakim]
-gavinc
16:20:33 [Zakim]
-AndyS
16:20:40 [Zakim]
-Guus
16:20:43 [Zakim]
-pfps
16:20:44 [Zakim]
SW_RDFWG()11:00AM has ended
16:20:44 [Zakim]
Attendees were pfps, Ivan, +1.707.861.aaaa, pchampin, gavinc, davidwood, +1.603.897.aabb, +31.20.598.aacc, Guus, Sandro, +1.408.996.aadd, +1.617.324.aaee, ericP, Arnaud, AndyS,
16:20:44 [Zakim]
... Souri, +1.617.553.aaff, LeeF, MacTed, danbri, Tom_Baker, +1.443.212.aagg, AlexHall, zwu2, PatH
16:20:49 [MacTed]
(sorry for muting you, Andy... the waterfall noise cuts everyone else out)
16:20:54 [AlexHall]
AlexHall has left #rdf-wg
16:21:21 [AndyS]
MacTex - np - skype dropped out and that is a sign of network bad quality
16:21:41 [AndyS]
AndyS has left #rdf-wg
16:22:11 [PatH]
Theorem. For any committee and any time-period, there exists an agenda item for which the committee will spend that time=period trying to decide what to do, without actually doing anything about that agenda item. (The WG Fixpoint Theorem.)
18:14:26 [MacTed]
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18:38:51 [Zakim]
Zakim has left #rdf-wg
19:17:11 [danbri]
[ot] http://googleblog.blogspot.com/2012/05/introducing-knowledge-graph-things-not.html
22:11:14 [mischat]
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