IRC log of ua on 2012-05-10

Timestamps are in UTC.

16:50:53 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #ua
16:50:53 [RRSAgent]
logging to http://www.w3.org/2012/05/10-ua-irc
16:50:55 [trackbot]
RRSAgent, make logs public
16:50:55 [Zakim]
Zakim has joined #ua
16:50:57 [trackbot]
Zakim, this will be WAI_UAWG
16:50:57 [Zakim]
ok, trackbot; I see WAI_UAWG()1:00PM scheduled to start in 10 minutes
16:50:58 [trackbot]
Meeting: User Agent Accessibility Guidelines Working Group Teleconference
16:50:58 [trackbot]
Date: 10 May 2012
16:54:08 [JAllan]
JAllan has joined #ua
16:54:44 [jeanne]
chair: JimAllan, KellyFord
16:55:07 [jeanne]
regrets+ Greg, Kim
16:55:28 [JAllan]
Agenda+ finalize 1.7
16:55:29 [JAllan]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2012AprJun/0040.html,
16:55:31 [JAllan]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2012AprJun/0042.html
16:55:32 [JAllan]
Agenda+ Action-722 Access to Relationships http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2012AprJun/0029.html
16:55:34 [JAllan]
Agenda+ Action-631 UAAG:next? https://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/tracker/actions/631
16:55:35 [JAllan]
Agenda+ Action-630 is this done? https://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/tracker/actions/630
16:55:37 [JAllan]
Agenda+ 1.11.1 & 1.11.2 Action-467 Jim (revise for proposal) Action-467 https://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/tracker/actions/467
16:57:04 [Zakim]
WAI_UAWG()1:00PM has now started
16:59:46 [Jan]
Jan has joined #ua
17:00:05 [Jan]
zakim, code?
17:00:05 [Zakim]
the conference code is 82941 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), Jan
17:00:29 [sharper]
sharper has joined #ua
17:01:43 [Jan]
zakim, who's here?
17:01:43 [Zakim]
On the phone I see no one
17:01:45 [Zakim]
On IRC I see sharper, Jan, JAllan, Zakim, RRSAgent, jeanne, trackbot
17:01:56 [Jan]
zakim, this will be UA
17:01:56 [Zakim]
ok, Jan, I see WAI_UAWG()1:00PM already started
17:02:00 [Jan]
zakim, who's here?
17:02:00 [Zakim]
On the phone I see no one
17:02:01 [Zakim]
On IRC I see sharper, Jan, JAllan, Zakim, RRSAgent, jeanne, trackbot
17:03:04 [jeanne]
zakim, bye
17:03:04 [Zakim]
Zakim has left #ua
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Zakim has joined #ua
17:03:25 [jeanne]
zakim, this is UA
17:03:25 [Zakim]
ok, jeanne; that matches WAI_UAWG()1:00PM
17:03:32 [jeanne]
zakim, who is here?
17:03:32 [Zakim]
On the phone I see no one
17:03:33 [Zakim]
On IRC I see sharper, Jan, JAllan, RRSAgent, jeanne, trackbot
17:04:12 [JAllan]
zakim, agenda?
17:04:12 [Zakim]
I see nothing on the agenda
17:04:26 [kford]
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17:04:45 [kford]
zakim, you are troublesome
17:04:45 [Zakim]
I don't understand 'you are troublesome', kford
17:04:50 [JAllan]
rrsagent, make minutes
17:04:50 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/05/10-ua-minutes.html JAllan
17:05:00 [kford]
zakim, you need a retirement
17:05:00 [Zakim]
I don't understand 'you need a retirement', kford
17:05:10 [kford]
zakim, what do you understand?
17:05:10 [Zakim]
I don't understand your question, kford.
17:05:22 [JAllan]
rrsagent, set logs public
17:05:24 [kford]
zakim, are you amused by me?
17:05:24 [Zakim]
I don't understand your question, kford.
17:06:31 [JAllan]
Topic: Glossary - Viewports
17:06:41 [jeanne]
present+ sharper, Jan, JAllan, jeanne, kelly
17:07:07 [Jan]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2012AprJun/0064.html
17:08:00 [kford]
Scribe: kford
17:08:12 [kford]
Jan going to go over glossary definitions.
17:08:19 [kford]
rrsagent, make minutes
17:08:19 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/05/10-ua-minutes.html kford
17:09:29 [kford]
Jan reads his changes.
17:10:14 [jeanne]
+1 very good
17:11:17 [sharper]
+1
17:11:30 [kford]
JA: I like any objections or comments.
17:11:37 [kford]
None heard.
17:12:18 [JAllan]
VIEW: A user interface function that lets users interact with web content. UAAG 2.0 recognizes a variety of approaches to presenting the content in a view, such as:
17:12:19 [JAllan]
1. rendered views: Views in which content is presented such that it is rendered, played or executed. There are several sub-types:
17:12:21 [JAllan]
a) In conventionally rendered views the content is rendered, played or executed according to the web content technology specification. This is the default view of most user agents.
17:12:23 [JAllan]
b) In unconventionally rendered views the content is rendered quite differently than specified in the technology specification (e.g., rendering an audio file as a graphical wavefront); or
17:12:25 [JAllan]
2. source views: Views in which the web content is presented without being rendered, played or executed. The source view may be plain text (i.e., "View Source") or it may include some other organization (e.g., presenting the markup in a tree).
17:12:26 [JAllan]
3. outline views: Views in which only a subset of the rendered content is presented, usually composed of labels or placeholders for important structural elements. The important structural elements will depend on the web content technology, but may include headings, table captions, and content sections.
17:12:28 [JAllan]
Note: Views can be visual, audio, or tactile.
17:12:30 [JAllan]
VIEWPORT (ONSCREEN VIEWPORT)
17:12:32 [JAllan]
The part of an onscreen view that the user agent is currently presenting onscreen to the user, such that the user can attend to any part of it without further action (e.g. scrolling). There may be multiple viewports on to the same view (e.g. when a split-screen is used to present the top and bottom of a document simultaneously) and viewports may be nested (e.g. a scrolling frame located...
17:12:37 [JAllan]
...within a larger document). When the viewport is smaller in extent than the content it is presenting, user agents typically provide mechanisms to bring the occluded content into the viewport (e.g., scrollbars).
17:13:13 [kford]
Resolved: Accept viewport definitions above.
17:13:22 [kford]
rrsagent, make minutes
17:13:22 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/05/10-ua-minutes.html kford
17:14:01 [kford]
Resolution: Accept viewport definition from above.
17:14:08 [kford]
rrsagent, make minutes
17:14:08 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/05/10-ua-minutes.html kford
17:15:17 [JAllan]
close Action-727
17:15:17 [trackbot]
ACTION-727 Write glossary item for top-level viewport (that it is the top rendered content viewport) closed
17:15:37 [kford]
zakim, agenda
17:15:37 [Zakim]
I don't understand 'agenda', kford
17:15:44 [kford]
zakim, agenda?
17:15:44 [Zakim]
I see nothing on the agenda
17:15:59 [JAllan]
Topic: Action-722 Access to Relationships
17:15:59 [kford]
Topic: Access to relationships
17:16:02 [JAllan]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2012AprJun/0029.html
17:21:25 [JAllan]
1.10.3 Configure Elements for Outline View: The user can configure the
17:21:27 [JAllan]
set of important elements for the outline view, including by element
17:21:28 [JAllan]
type (e.g. headers). (Level AAA) [Under GL 1.10 Alternative View]
17:21:30 [JAllan]
2.5.7 Configure Elements for Structural Navigation: The user can
17:21:32 [JAllan]
configure the sets of important elements (including element types) for
17:21:33 [JAllan]
structured navigation and hierarchical/outline view. (Level AAA)
17:21:35 [JAllan]
[Under GL 2.5 Structural Navigation]
17:21:59 [JAllan]
Proposal: remove 1.10.3, merge IER for 1.10.3 and 2.5.7
17:23:53 [Jan]
What are "decentralised extended elements"?
17:24:16 [Jan]
Also, I agree with folding 1.10.3 into 2.5.7.
17:25:31 [JAllan]
Intent of Success Criterion 2.5.7 :
17:25:32 [JAllan]
Sometimes authors will visually convey relationships between elements
17:25:34 [JAllan]
by spatially grouping them, by giving them the same coloration or
17:25:35 [JAllan]
background, and so forth. Users may not be able to perceive those
17:25:37 [JAllan]
attributes, such as when using a screen reader, or when strong
17:25:38 [JAllan]
magnification makes it difficult to make a mental model of the screen
17:25:40 [JAllan]
layout. In those cases the user agent can assist by providing a view
17:25:41 [JAllan]
of the data that groups elements that that user agent perceives as
17:25:43 [JAllan]
implying relationships.
17:25:44 [JAllan]
Often the user agent will choose by default the elements it considers
17:25:46 [JAllan]
important for structured navigation, however these may not be relevant
17:25:47 [JAllan]
in all circumstances. It may be that the user wishes to navigate via
17:25:49 [JAllan]
informal mechanisms such as microformats, decentralised extended
17:25:50 [JAllan]
elements, or via a particular styling which is used to convey a
17:25:52 [JAllan]
structure in the visual navigation, but which does not exist in the
17:25:54 [JAllan]
element hierarchy.
17:25:56 [JAllan]
Examples of Success Criterion 2.5.7 :
17:25:57 [JAllan]
Fred is blind and wishes to navigate through the menu structure
17:25:59 [JAllan]
using the Tab key, however the menu is a set of nested list elements
17:26:00 [JAllan]
with a particular HTML class attribute denoting the menu-submenu
17:26:02 [JAllan]
relationship. Because Fred's user agent allows him to configure
17:26:03 [JAllan]
important elements he can explicitly include the class name as an
17:26:05 [JAllan]
important element for navigation. He then assigns a keyboard shortcut
17:26:07 [JAllan]
to navigate to the next element with the same class name as the
17:26:09 [JAllan]
element that has the focus.
17:26:12 [JAllan]
Jane uses a mobile device (and is often situationally impaired) and
17:26:12 [sharper]
sharper has left #ua
17:26:13 [JAllan]
often encounters tables laid out using floating DIV elements with
17:26:15 [JAllan]
specific class names denoting the visual styling. In this case Jane
17:26:17 [JAllan]
cannot use the cursor keys to move around these tabular layouts having
17:26:19 [JAllan]
instead to use the tab key to move sequentially left-to-right
17:26:21 [JAllan]
top-to-bottom. Jane's browser allows her to configure important
17:26:23 [JAllan]
elements and so she can pick out the classes associated with thes
17:26:25 [JAllan]
element, and therefore use the cursor key to move logically through
17:26:27 [JAllan]
columns or rows.
17:29:25 [JAllan_]
JAllan_ has joined #ua
17:29:36 [JAllan]
Resolution: use the following for IER for 2.5.7, delete all of 1.10.3
17:29:38 [JAllan]
Intent of Success Criterion 2.5.7 :
17:29:39 [JAllan]
Sometimes authors will visually convey relationships between elements
17:29:41 [JAllan]
by spatially grouping them, by giving them the same coloration or
17:29:43 [JAllan]
background, and so forth. Users may not be able to perceive those
17:29:44 [JAllan]
attributes, such as when using a screen reader, or when strong
17:29:46 [JAllan]
magnification makes it difficult to make a mental model of the screen
17:29:47 [JAllan]
layout. In those cases the user agent can assist by providing a view
17:29:49 [JAllan]
of the data that groups elements that that user agent perceives as
17:29:51 [JAllan]
implying relationships.
17:29:53 [JAllan]
Often the user agent will choose by default the elements it considers
17:29:54 [JAllan]
important for structured navigation, however these may not be relevant
17:29:56 [JAllan]
in all circumstances. It may be that the user wishes to navigate via
17:29:58 [JAllan]
informal mechanisms such as microformats or via a particular styling which is used to convey a
17:30:00 [JAllan]
structure in the visual navigation, but which does not exist in the
17:30:02 [JAllan]
element hierarchy.
17:30:04 [JAllan]
Examples of Success Criterion 2.5.7 :
17:30:05 [JAllan]
Fred is blind and wishes to navigate through the menu structure
17:30:07 [JAllan]
using the Tab key, however the menu is a set of nested list elements
17:30:09 [JAllan]
with a particular HTML class attribute denoting the menu-submenu
17:30:11 [JAllan]
relationship. Because Fred's user agent allows him to configure
17:30:13 [JAllan]
important elements he can explicitly include the class name as an
17:30:14 [JAllan]
important element for navigation. He then assigns a keyboard shortcut
17:30:16 [JAllan]
to navigate to the next element with the same class name as the
17:30:18 [JAllan]
element that has the focus.
17:30:20 [JAllan]
Jane uses a mobile device (and is often situationally impaired) and
17:30:22 [JAllan]
often encounters tables laid out using floating DIV elements with
17:30:23 [JAllan]
specific class names denoting the visual styling. In this case Jane
17:30:25 [JAllan]
cannot use the cursor keys to move around these tabular layouts having
17:30:26 [JAllan]
instead to use the tab key to move sequentially left-to-right
17:30:28 [JAllan]
top-to-bottom. Jane's browser allows her to configure important
17:30:30 [JAllan]
elements and so she can pick out the classes associated with thes
17:30:32 [JAllan]
element, and therefore use the cursor key to move logically through
17:30:33 [JAllan]
columns or rows.
17:30:37 [JAllan]
rrsagent, make minutes
17:30:37 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/05/10-ua-minutes.html JAllan
17:32:53 [kford]
Resolution: Delete all of 1.10.3, use previous for IER for 2.5.7
17:34:28 [JAllan]
topic: Action-631 UAAG:next? https://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/tracker/actions/631
17:35:55 [JAllan]
deferred till next week so Kim can address.
17:36:37 [JAllan]
topic: Action-630 is this done? Propose SC on maintaining point of regard when scaling the page
17:39:54 [kford]
rrsagent, make minutes
17:39:54 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/05/10-ua-minutes.html kford
17:40:30 [Jan]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2011OctDec/0066.html
17:42:30 [Jan]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2011OctDec/0069.html
17:44:55 [JAllan]
Deferred till Jim cleans up and makes a formal proposal
17:45:13 [JAllan]
Topic: GL 1.7
17:45:42 [JAllan]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2012AprJun/0040.html,
17:45:44 [JAllan]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2012AprJun/0042.html
17:46:57 [kford]
JA: To refresh, this was the attempt to make styles more agnostic.
17:49:25 [Jan]
JR: Originally I was condcerned we were being too specific by saying user SS but the proposed text is exactly that
17:53:34 [JAllan]
jan: 171 will fail for mobile browsers. also, we are talking about style sheets, should use the term
17:54:26 [JAllan]
Stylesheets: Jim, Kelly, Jan, Jeanne +1
17:58:35 [kford]
Group discussion about this area.
18:02:11 [jeanne]
1.7.1 Support User Stylesheets:
18:02:11 [jeanne]
User agents that support a mechanism for authors to supply stylesheets shall also provide an equally effective mechanism for users to supply stylesheets. (Level A)
18:03:15 [jeanne]
User agents that support a mechanism for authors to supply stylesheets shall also provide a mechanism for users to supply stylesheets. (Level A)
18:03:53 [JAllan]
User agents that support author supplied stylesheets shall also provide a mechanism for users to supply stylesheets. (Level A)
18:05:46 [Jan]
http://simplyaccessible.com/article/custom-styles-for-ios/
18:08:27 [JAllan]
add this as a resource to 1.7
18:10:17 [JAllan]
need to fix definitions style grouping, style profile, style rule.
18:10:32 [JAllan]
rrsagent, make minutes
18:10:32 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/05/10-ua-minutes.html JAllan
18:10:40 [Zakim]
WAI_UAWG()1:00PM has ended
18:10:41 [Zakim]
Attendees were
18:12:42 [JAllan]
present: Jim, Kelly, Jeanne, Simon, Jan
18:13:11 [JAllan]
new draft created http://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/2012/ED-IMPLEMENTING-UAAG20-20120510/
18:13:18 [JAllan]
rrsagent, make minutes
18:13:18 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/05/10-ua-minutes.html JAllan
18:17:54 [JAllan]
rrsagent, please part
18:17:54 [RRSAgent]
I see no action items