16:50:53 RRSAgent has joined #ua 16:50:53 logging to http://www.w3.org/2012/05/10-ua-irc 16:50:55 RRSAgent, make logs public 16:50:55 Zakim has joined #ua 16:50:57 Zakim, this will be WAI_UAWG 16:50:57 ok, trackbot; I see WAI_UAWG()1:00PM scheduled to start in 10 minutes 16:50:58 Meeting: User Agent Accessibility Guidelines Working Group Teleconference 16:50:58 Date: 10 May 2012 16:54:08 JAllan has joined #ua 16:54:44 chair: JimAllan, KellyFord 16:55:07 regrets+ Greg, Kim 16:55:28 Agenda+ finalize 1.7 16:55:29 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2012AprJun/0040.html, 16:55:31 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2012AprJun/0042.html 16:55:32 Agenda+ Action-722 Access to Relationships http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2012AprJun/0029.html 16:55:34 Agenda+ Action-631 UAAG:next? https://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/tracker/actions/631 16:55:35 Agenda+ Action-630 is this done? https://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/tracker/actions/630 16:55:37 Agenda+ 1.11.1 & 1.11.2 Action-467 Jim (revise for proposal) Action-467 https://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/tracker/actions/467 16:57:04 WAI_UAWG()1:00PM has now started 16:59:46 Jan has joined #ua 17:00:05 zakim, code? 17:00:05 the conference code is 82941 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), Jan 17:00:29 sharper has joined #ua 17:01:43 zakim, who's here? 17:01:43 On the phone I see no one 17:01:45 On IRC I see sharper, Jan, JAllan, Zakim, RRSAgent, jeanne, trackbot 17:01:56 zakim, this will be UA 17:01:56 ok, Jan, I see WAI_UAWG()1:00PM already started 17:02:00 zakim, who's here? 17:02:00 On the phone I see no one 17:02:01 On IRC I see sharper, Jan, JAllan, Zakim, RRSAgent, jeanne, trackbot 17:03:04 zakim, bye 17:03:04 Zakim has left #ua 17:03:15 Zakim has joined #ua 17:03:25 zakim, this is UA 17:03:25 ok, jeanne; that matches WAI_UAWG()1:00PM 17:03:32 zakim, who is here? 17:03:32 On the phone I see no one 17:03:33 On IRC I see sharper, Jan, JAllan, RRSAgent, jeanne, trackbot 17:04:12 zakim, agenda? 17:04:12 I see nothing on the agenda 17:04:26 kford has joined #ua 17:04:45 zakim, you are troublesome 17:04:45 I don't understand 'you are troublesome', kford 17:04:50 rrsagent, make minutes 17:04:50 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/05/10-ua-minutes.html JAllan 17:05:00 zakim, you need a retirement 17:05:00 I don't understand 'you need a retirement', kford 17:05:10 zakim, what do you understand? 17:05:10 I don't understand your question, kford. 17:05:22 rrsagent, set logs public 17:05:24 zakim, are you amused by me? 17:05:24 I don't understand your question, kford. 17:06:31 Topic: Glossary - Viewports 17:06:41 present+ sharper, Jan, JAllan, jeanne, kelly 17:07:07 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2012AprJun/0064.html 17:08:00 Scribe: kford 17:08:12 Jan going to go over glossary definitions. 17:08:19 rrsagent, make minutes 17:08:19 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/05/10-ua-minutes.html kford 17:09:29 Jan reads his changes. 17:10:14 +1 very good 17:11:17 +1 17:11:30 JA: I like any objections or comments. 17:11:37 None heard. 17:12:18 VIEW: A user interface function that lets users interact with web content. UAAG 2.0 recognizes a variety of approaches to presenting the content in a view, such as: 17:12:19 1. rendered views: Views in which content is presented such that it is rendered, played or executed. There are several sub-types: 17:12:21 a) In conventionally rendered views the content is rendered, played or executed according to the web content technology specification. This is the default view of most user agents. 17:12:23 b) In unconventionally rendered views the content is rendered quite differently than specified in the technology specification (e.g., rendering an audio file as a graphical wavefront); or 17:12:25 2. source views: Views in which the web content is presented without being rendered, played or executed. The source view may be plain text (i.e., "View Source") or it may include some other organization (e.g., presenting the markup in a tree). 17:12:26 3. outline views: Views in which only a subset of the rendered content is presented, usually composed of labels or placeholders for important structural elements. The important structural elements will depend on the web content technology, but may include headings, table captions, and content sections. 17:12:28 Note: Views can be visual, audio, or tactile. 17:12:30 VIEWPORT (ONSCREEN VIEWPORT) 17:12:32 The part of an onscreen view that the user agent is currently presenting onscreen to the user, such that the user can attend to any part of it without further action (e.g. scrolling). There may be multiple viewports on to the same view (e.g. when a split-screen is used to present the top and bottom of a document simultaneously) and viewports may be nested (e.g. a scrolling frame located... 17:12:37 ...within a larger document). When the viewport is smaller in extent than the content it is presenting, user agents typically provide mechanisms to bring the occluded content into the viewport (e.g., scrollbars). 17:13:13 Resolved: Accept viewport definitions above. 17:13:22 rrsagent, make minutes 17:13:22 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/05/10-ua-minutes.html kford 17:14:01 Resolution: Accept viewport definition from above. 17:14:08 rrsagent, make minutes 17:14:08 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/05/10-ua-minutes.html kford 17:15:17 close Action-727 17:15:17 ACTION-727 Write glossary item for top-level viewport (that it is the top rendered content viewport) closed 17:15:37 zakim, agenda 17:15:37 I don't understand 'agenda', kford 17:15:44 zakim, agenda? 17:15:44 I see nothing on the agenda 17:15:59 Topic: Action-722 Access to Relationships 17:15:59 Topic: Access to relationships 17:16:02 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2012AprJun/0029.html 17:21:25 1.10.3 Configure Elements for Outline View: The user can configure the 17:21:27 set of important elements for the outline view, including by element 17:21:28 type (e.g. headers). (Level AAA) [Under GL 1.10 Alternative View] 17:21:30 2.5.7 Configure Elements for Structural Navigation: The user can 17:21:32 configure the sets of important elements (including element types) for 17:21:33 structured navigation and hierarchical/outline view. (Level AAA) 17:21:35 [Under GL 2.5 Structural Navigation] 17:21:59 Proposal: remove 1.10.3, merge IER for 1.10.3 and 2.5.7 17:23:53 What are "decentralised extended elements"? 17:24:16 Also, I agree with folding 1.10.3 into 2.5.7. 17:25:31 Intent of Success Criterion 2.5.7 : 17:25:32 Sometimes authors will visually convey relationships between elements 17:25:34 by spatially grouping them, by giving them the same coloration or 17:25:35 background, and so forth. Users may not be able to perceive those 17:25:37 attributes, such as when using a screen reader, or when strong 17:25:38 magnification makes it difficult to make a mental model of the screen 17:25:40 layout. In those cases the user agent can assist by providing a view 17:25:41 of the data that groups elements that that user agent perceives as 17:25:43 implying relationships. 17:25:44 Often the user agent will choose by default the elements it considers 17:25:46 important for structured navigation, however these may not be relevant 17:25:47 in all circumstances. It may be that the user wishes to navigate via 17:25:49 informal mechanisms such as microformats, decentralised extended 17:25:50 elements, or via a particular styling which is used to convey a 17:25:52 structure in the visual navigation, but which does not exist in the 17:25:54 element hierarchy. 17:25:56 Examples of Success Criterion 2.5.7 : 17:25:57 Fred is blind and wishes to navigate through the menu structure 17:25:59 using the Tab key, however the menu is a set of nested list elements 17:26:00 with a particular HTML class attribute denoting the menu-submenu 17:26:02 relationship. Because Fred's user agent allows him to configure 17:26:03 important elements he can explicitly include the class name as an 17:26:05 important element for navigation. He then assigns a keyboard shortcut 17:26:07 to navigate to the next element with the same class name as the 17:26:09 element that has the focus. 17:26:12 Jane uses a mobile device (and is often situationally impaired) and 17:26:12 sharper has left #ua 17:26:13 often encounters tables laid out using floating DIV elements with 17:26:15 specific class names denoting the visual styling. In this case Jane 17:26:17 cannot use the cursor keys to move around these tabular layouts having 17:26:19 instead to use the tab key to move sequentially left-to-right 17:26:21 top-to-bottom. Jane's browser allows her to configure important 17:26:23 elements and so she can pick out the classes associated with thes 17:26:25 element, and therefore use the cursor key to move logically through 17:26:27 columns or rows. 17:29:25 JAllan_ has joined #ua 17:29:36 Resolution: use the following for IER for 2.5.7, delete all of 1.10.3 17:29:38 Intent of Success Criterion 2.5.7 : 17:29:39 Sometimes authors will visually convey relationships between elements 17:29:41 by spatially grouping them, by giving them the same coloration or 17:29:43 background, and so forth. Users may not be able to perceive those 17:29:44 attributes, such as when using a screen reader, or when strong 17:29:46 magnification makes it difficult to make a mental model of the screen 17:29:47 layout. In those cases the user agent can assist by providing a view 17:29:49 of the data that groups elements that that user agent perceives as 17:29:51 implying relationships. 17:29:53 Often the user agent will choose by default the elements it considers 17:29:54 important for structured navigation, however these may not be relevant 17:29:56 in all circumstances. It may be that the user wishes to navigate via 17:29:58 informal mechanisms such as microformats or via a particular styling which is used to convey a 17:30:00 structure in the visual navigation, but which does not exist in the 17:30:02 element hierarchy. 17:30:04 Examples of Success Criterion 2.5.7 : 17:30:05 Fred is blind and wishes to navigate through the menu structure 17:30:07 using the Tab key, however the menu is a set of nested list elements 17:30:09 with a particular HTML class attribute denoting the menu-submenu 17:30:11 relationship. Because Fred's user agent allows him to configure 17:30:13 important elements he can explicitly include the class name as an 17:30:14 important element for navigation. He then assigns a keyboard shortcut 17:30:16 to navigate to the next element with the same class name as the 17:30:18 element that has the focus. 17:30:20 Jane uses a mobile device (and is often situationally impaired) and 17:30:22 often encounters tables laid out using floating DIV elements with 17:30:23 specific class names denoting the visual styling. In this case Jane 17:30:25 cannot use the cursor keys to move around these tabular layouts having 17:30:26 instead to use the tab key to move sequentially left-to-right 17:30:28 top-to-bottom. Jane's browser allows her to configure important 17:30:30 elements and so she can pick out the classes associated with thes 17:30:32 element, and therefore use the cursor key to move logically through 17:30:33 columns or rows. 17:30:37 rrsagent, make minutes 17:30:37 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/05/10-ua-minutes.html JAllan 17:32:53 Resolution: Delete all of 1.10.3, use previous for IER for 2.5.7 17:34:28 topic: Action-631 UAAG:next? https://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/tracker/actions/631 17:35:55 deferred till next week so Kim can address. 17:36:37 topic: Action-630 is this done? Propose SC on maintaining point of regard when scaling the page 17:39:54 rrsagent, make minutes 17:39:54 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/05/10-ua-minutes.html kford 17:40:30 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2011OctDec/0066.html 17:42:30 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2011OctDec/0069.html 17:44:55 Deferred till Jim cleans up and makes a formal proposal 17:45:13 Topic: GL 1.7 17:45:42 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2012AprJun/0040.html, 17:45:44 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2012AprJun/0042.html 17:46:57 JA: To refresh, this was the attempt to make styles more agnostic. 17:49:25 JR: Originally I was condcerned we were being too specific by saying user SS but the proposed text is exactly that 17:53:34 jan: 171 will fail for mobile browsers. also, we are talking about style sheets, should use the term 17:54:26 Stylesheets: Jim, Kelly, Jan, Jeanne +1 17:58:35 Group discussion about this area. 18:02:11 1.7.1 Support User Stylesheets: 18:02:11 User agents that support a mechanism for authors to supply stylesheets shall also provide an equally effective mechanism for users to supply stylesheets. (Level A) 18:03:15 User agents that support a mechanism for authors to supply stylesheets shall also provide a mechanism for users to supply stylesheets. (Level A) 18:03:53 User agents that support author supplied stylesheets shall also provide a mechanism for users to supply stylesheets. (Level A) 18:05:46 http://simplyaccessible.com/article/custom-styles-for-ios/ 18:08:27 add this as a resource to 1.7 18:10:17 need to fix definitions style grouping, style profile, style rule. 18:10:32 rrsagent, make minutes 18:10:32 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/05/10-ua-minutes.html JAllan 18:10:40 WAI_UAWG()1:00PM has ended 18:10:41 Attendees were 18:12:42 present: Jim, Kelly, Jeanne, Simon, Jan 18:13:11 new draft created http://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/2012/ED-IMPLEMENTING-UAAG20-20120510/ 18:13:18 rrsagent, make minutes 18:13:18 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/05/10-ua-minutes.html JAllan 18:17:54 rrsagent, please part 18:17:54 I see no action items