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19:04:54 <olivier> Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-audio/2012AprJun/0081.html
19:05:00 <olivier> Chair: Alistair
19:05:02 <olivier> Scribe: Olivier
19:05:08 <olivier> rrsagent, make logs public
19:05:10 <olivier> Agenda?
19:05:13 <Zakim> +CRogers
19:06:09 <olivier> Topic: new members
19:06:33 <olivier> Al: Microsoft has joined the working group, new member Tony Ross
19:07:50 <olivier> zakim, take up agendum 1
19:07:50 <Zakim> agendum 1. "ISSUE-12: Loop start/stop points" taken up [from olivier]
19:07:59 <olivier> ISSUE-12?
19:07:59 <trackbot> ISSUE-12 -- Loop start/stop points -- raised
19:07:59 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2011/audio/track/issues/12
19:08:34 <olivier> Joe: came up at the f2f
19:08:57 <olivier> … some confusion about what looping meant
19:09:16 <olivier> Chris: agreed we should meet this requirement
19:09:18 <olivier> q+
19:09:30 <olivier> CRogers: not implemented yet, but agree
19:09:35 <olivier> … could be interesting semantics
19:10:03 <olivier> … default, for most people, would be between 0 and size of the buffer
19:10:28 <olivier> … but if not default value, if you have an internal loop point
19:10:54 <olivier> Joe: the need is different from just a extract, which you can get with notegrainon
19:11:15 <olivier> CRogers: expected behaviour if using an internal loop?
19:11:28 <olivier> Joe: would expect to play until end of loop then go to end of buffer
19:11:39 <olivier> … confusion with notegrainon?
19:11:52 <olivier> CRogers: notegrainon not used in looping
19:12:24 <olivier> Joe: depends what you want to do. If you want to play an enveloped sound, notegrainon lets you play a specific length of sample
19:12:34 <olivier> CRogers: depends if you want to refer to a subsection of a sample
19:13:15 <olivier> … in DLS and soundfounts (SP?) there is no notion of notegrainon
19:13:34 <olivier> Joe: you are suggesting that noteoff be the mechanism to end a loop?
19:13:47 <olivier> CRogers: yes, but that means special-casing a loop if you have an internal loop
19:14:19 <olivier> … the name noteOn and noteOff are misleading
19:14:30 <olivier> … would have been prefereable to use stop and start
19:15:07 <olivier> … but the noteOn and noteOff are out in the wild now, question of how we'd keep supporting them (and what to say in the spec?)
19:15:46 <olivier> … so we could have several methods - loopExit and (?)
19:18:11 <olivier> CRogers: almost all loop end points I've seen tend to be at the end of sample data
19:18:31 <olivier> Alistair: are we looking to merge this into one thing, and remove the grain?
19:18:53 <olivier> CRogers: my gut reaction at the moment would be that notegrainon should not be used for looping
19:19:19 <olivier> … we'd add 2 new attributes loopstart and loopend
19:19:42 <olivier> … which would be set by default to 0 and end of sample
19:19:51 <olivier> Joe: does that affect statefulness of node?
19:19:57 <olivier> s/sample/buffer/
19:20:14 <olivier> CRogers: could happen 
19:20:33 <olivier> Joe: this would introduce an ordering requirement
19:20:52 <olivier> … where you could not set loopstart/loopend before you assign a buffer
19:21:15 <olivier> CRogers: need to think about it, and we can discuss it on the list
19:21:50 <olivier> CRogers: on a related subject, should we start deprecating noteon/noteoff?
19:21:57 <olivier> Joe: I favour a name change.
19:22:06 <olivier> CRogers: favour start and stop?
19:22:13 <olivier> q?
19:22:43 <Alistair> ack Olivier
19:23:01 <olivier> CRogers: spec should mention that noteon / noteoff should still be supported
19:23:57 <Alistair> Olivier: It was not very clear from the usecases. if there is a suggetion on how to work on the use cases w. regards to this ite,
19:24:16 <Alistair>  /s/ite,/item
19:24:52 <olivier> Olivier: a little uncomfortable with having something deprecated from v1
19:25:00 <Alistair> Oliver: I have a concern about renaming from NoteOn etc from Start. Saying it's deprecated from version 1 might be less than desirable.
19:26:00 <olivier> Olivier: would either keep it normatively or have it informatively
19:26:49 <Alistair> zakim, next agendum
19:26:49 <Zakim> agendum 2. "ISSUE-6: Audio Param Constructor" taken up [from olivier]
19:26:53 <olivier> Olivier: a compromise would be to consolidate, recommend the use of start/stop and say that noteon/off may be deprecated in the future
19:27:08 <Alistair> https://www.w3.org/2011/audio/track/issues/6
19:27:35 <olivier> Al: we had a tentative resolution on ISSUE-6
19:28:09 <olivier> http://www.w3.org/2011/audio/wiki/Main_Page#Meeting_Minutes_and_Resolutions
19:28:43 <Alistair> Tentative Resolution: keep AudioParam constructor for a future version of the spec
19:29:42 <olivier> Al: any change since we last looked at it?
19:29:52 <olivier> CRogers: agree we should consider it for next version of the spec
19:29:53 <olivier> q+
19:30:01 <Alistair> ack Olivier
19:31:44 <olivier> Olivier: suggest to have a section of the spec mentioning the thing(s) we are keeping out of v1
19:32:03 <olivier> … also agree we should close the issue, as there has been no objection for a month since tentative resolution
19:32:19 <Alistair> zakim, next agendum
19:32:19 <Zakim> agendum 3. "ISSUE-9: Channel handling" taken up [from olivier]
19:32:24 <olivier> ACTION: Olivier to draft section of features "kept out" of v2
19:32:24 <trackbot> Sorry, amibiguous username (more than one match) - Olivier
19:32:24 <trackbot> Try using a different identifier, such as family name or username (eg. ot, folivier3)
19:32:27 <olivier> s/v2/v1/
19:32:39 <olivier> ACTION: livier to draft section of features "kept out" of v1
19:32:39 <trackbot> Sorry, couldn't find user - livier
19:32:46 <olivier> ACTION: olivier to draft section of features "kept out" of v1
19:32:46 <trackbot> Sorry, amibiguous username (more than one match) - olivier
19:32:46 <trackbot> Try using a different identifier, such as family name or username (eg. ot, folivier3)
19:32:56 <olivier> ACTION: ot to draft section of features "kept out" of v1
19:32:56 <trackbot> Created ACTION-45 - Draft section of features "kept out" of v1 [on Olivier Thereaux - due 2012-05-09].
19:33:12 <chrislowis> Zakim, who is noisy? 
19:33:23 <Zakim> chrislowis, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: jussi (84%), Alistair (5%), olivier (54%)
19:33:42 <olivier> zakim, next
19:33:42 <Zakim> I don't understand 'next', olivier
19:33:47 <olivier> zakim, next agendum
19:33:47 <Zakim> agendum 4. "ISSUE-5: Pausing a sub-graph" taken up [from olivier]
19:34:14 <olivier> zakim, take up agendum 3
19:34:14 <Zakim> agendum 3. "ISSUE-9: Channel handling" taken up [from olivier]
19:34:25 <olivier> ISSUE-9?
19:34:25 <trackbot> ISSUE-9 -- Multi-Channel support in Use Cases & Reqs. -- open
19:34:25 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2011/audio/track/issues/9
19:34:28 <Alistair> https://www.w3.org/2011/audio/track/issues/9
19:34:46 <olivier> zakim, who is noisy?
19:34:59 <Zakim> olivier, listening for 13 seconds I heard sound from the following: CRogers (6%), chrislowis (8%), jussi (11%), Alistair (100%)
19:36:55 <olivier> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-audio/2012AprJun/0077.html
19:39:27 <olivier> Olivier : I think the 4 requirements cover all we need?
19:39:42 <olivier> Chris: at the very list we want to be able to output to multiple channels
19:39:50 <olivier> whether they are speakers or discrete channels
19:40:14 <olivier> … so we need to have a way to query the hardware 
19:40:29 <olivier> … and set the audiocontext to that number of channels
19:40:59 <olivier> … regardless of speakers and layout
19:41:13 <olivier> Al: what is the current status of spec/implementation?
19:41:22 <olivier> CRogers: there are notions of upmixing
19:41:39 <olivier> … the destination node has a number of channels, currently hardcoded to 2
19:41:54 <olivier> … we need to have a way to find out that a device supports more than stereo
19:42:26 <olivier> q+ to ask if this is a requirement from us to dap?
19:42:41 <olivier> Al: does this bring us to device enumeration, etc?
19:42:55 <Alistair> ack Olivier
19:42:55 <Zakim> olivier, you wanted to ask if this is a requirement from us to dap?
19:42:57 <olivier> CRogers: at least we should know, given the default device, what is the number of channels
19:44:35 <chris> https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/audio/raw-file/tip/webaudio/specification.html#AudioDestinationNode
19:44:38 <olivier> Olivier: this should be on a group's roadmap - if not ours, maybe DAP?
19:45:18 <olivier> CRogers: could have a read only attribute in the AudioDestinationNode reporting the max number of channels supported
19:45:38 <olivier> Olivier: sounds reasonable
19:45:55 <olivier> Crogers: would be a simple approach, I think it would work
19:46:15 <olivier> Al: should we contact the DAP group, offer support?
19:47:41 <olivier> Olivier: would be a good idea to ask DAP anyway, see what they think about us having it in web audio API
19:48:21 <olivier> CRogers: there is the potential issue of fingerprinting
19:49:31 <olivier> Olivier: does not seem to be in the same order of privacy risk as a case where you list all devices and their APIs
19:50:03 <Alistair> zakim, who is noisy
19:50:03 <Zakim> I don't understand 'who is noisy', Alistair
19:50:05 <Alistair> zakim, who is noisy?
19:50:16 <Zakim> Alistair, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: jussi (15%), Alistair (40%), olivier (20%)
19:50:27 <olivier> zakim, take up agendum 4
19:50:27 <Zakim> agendum 4. "ISSUE-5: Pausing a sub-graph" taken up [from olivier]
19:50:40 <olivier> ISSUE-5?
19:50:40 <trackbot> ISSUE-5 -- Pausing a subgraph -- pending review
19:50:40 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2011/audio/track/issues/5
19:50:55 <olivier> Al: ROC not here today, best to pass over this?
19:51:01 <olivier> (no objection)
19:51:13 <olivier> Al: will add it to next week's agenda
19:52:33 <olivier> Agenda: spec roadmap
19:52:40 <olivier> Joe: wondering what is the status
19:52:51 <olivier> Al: there seems to be increasing buy-in for web audio spec
19:55:55 <olivier> Olivier: I get that sense too. I would like the group to resolve on this in the month to come
19:56:38 <olivier> … if the group is to decide to go ahead with just the web audio API, which seems to be the trend, I'd like it to be a recorded decision by the group before we go to LC
19:57:02 <olivier> … but we haven't had ROC on the call lately, so would want to hear his thought too
19:58:11 <olivier> ADJOURNED
19:58:14 <Zakim> -jernoble
19:58:16 <Zakim> -chrislowis
19:58:16 <Zakim> -Alistair
19:58:17 <Zakim> -Joe
19:58:17 <Zakim> -CRogers
19:58:18 <Zakim> -olivier
19:58:19 <Zakim> -mdjp
19:58:22 <Zakim> -jussi
19:58:22 <olivier> rrsagent, draft minutes
19:58:22 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/05/02-audio-minutes.html olivier
19:58:23 <Zakim> RWC_Audio()3:00PM has ended
19:58:24 <Zakim> Attendees were jernoble, chrislowis, olivier, Alistair, Joe, mdjp, jussi, CRogers
19:59:20 <chrislowis> Night all! 
19:59:27 <olivier> Topic: Spec Roadmap
19:59:44 <olivier> rrsagent, draft minutes
19:59:44 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/05/02-audio-minutes.html olivier
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