27 Apr 2012


EO members are reminded that current items that are part of the to-do list for all are listed as the first section of the WAI-EO overview page. Please review and contribute to that ongoing work. The meeting began with a review of open action items and discussion of what was needed to change and update status as assignments are completed. Denis completed his first draft of the wiki "cheat sheet" documentation to help others perform updates in ways that are most apparent for screen reader users. He received kudos from Shawn and the rest of the group. We then looked at progress on the tutorial development for WAI contribution to the webEd community group. Sharron submitted BAD exercises she has used in recent workshops and we discussed how those might be used. A suggestion was made for review of the previously developed suite of learning materials with the purpose of integrating BAD and the roles work. Suzette and Sharron took actions for further collaboration.

Interested EO members are invited to a call on Tuesday night (use the standard EO conference line) at 8:00 pm US Eastern time to discuss with WAI-Engage chair Jennison Asuncion how interest is developing outside of WAI. Some discussion ensued of barriers experienced by people who tried to join the Community Group. While some barriers are exagerrated or the result of misunderstanding, there are real barriers for a few people that Shawn is working on overcoming.

Shawn asked everyone to put out the word that a designer is needed to help with RDWG Symposium Design. The need is to develop formats that are thematically tied together but that also reflect various sources and purposes within the symposium. Jennifer asked for an update on items of interest that may have come from the W4A confernce and a discussion ensued about the proper terminology and importance of continuing to talk about disability and access and a caution about the possibility of disability being lost in questions of more general benefitsand arguments for considerations of "universal design."

Members are urged to check action items, remembering that there are general action items at the top of the EO page and to update availability for future EO teleconferences and especially availability for potential Face to Face meetings. Please indicate which of the days are best around TPAC and other events.


  1. Action item check
  2. Accessibility Basics for WebEd
  3. BAD for WebEd
  4. RDWG Symposium Design
  5. WAI-Engage Community Group
  6. Face-to-face meetings: EOWG f2f in Nov. ICCHP in July?
    Reminder: Update Availability for possible EOWG face- to-face meetings in 2012
  7. Dates added to Availability for Upcoming EOWG Teleconferences


Shawn, Denis, Suzette, Andrew, Jennifer, Ian, Liam, Sharron
Shadi, Helle, Sylvie, Vicki,
Sharron, AndrewA


Action item check http://www.w3.org/WAI/EO/track/actions/open? sort=owner

Shawn: Let's do a check in on action items. Denis?

Denis: Worked on the cheat sheet for us to use in updating the wiki wiki, but did not get to the eval.

Shawn: Action 65?

Denis: Forgot about that one.

Shawn: Then just close it and make a note that it is no longer priority.
... status on the cheat sheet?

Denis: Yes, I have made progress on basic structural elements. Have suggested to focus mostly on HTML except when wiki syntax does not support it. I am open to suggestion of how much more may be needed. I suggested a way to organize editor notes to work with screen reader. Jennifer and Sylvie seemed to think it was OK. Need to check in with everyone else.

Shawn: I didn't realize you had done that work. Please send email to the list and possibly to WAI-Engage.

Sharron: It would make sense to share techniques between the EO and the WAI-Engage wikis.

Shawn: I have used wiki help but the way you have written this is so much nicer. If any of it is specific to EO, we could revise, but if it is OK for both, let's do share.

Denis: The introduction speaks about how we decided in EO to make this document and that part may be irrelevant to WAI-Engage. Otherwise, it should be equally useful to each.

<shawn> maybe add http://www.w3.org/community/wai-engage/wiki/About_WAI- Engage#Wiki_Tips

Shawn: Send the note to the EO list and we can add this to WAI-Engage and link from our own wiki. Will add note about how to add pages.

Denis: I also wanted to add a note about table syntax. My first thought was not to use tables. But in this document, for example, it is very useful to have a table. And in the ARB I am finding it useful as well. Now I am divided between the two positions. I am tempted to encourage people to work in HTML so we can take it from the wiki directly into our work.

Shawn: It is great to have this uncluttered document but maybe not include too much additional information here. We could point elsewhere for information about things like tables, etc.

Denis: OK since there are many sources for more information we can point to them.

Shawn: Yes, what you have here is so clear and easy to use especially for those new to wiki editing.

Andrew: Agreed as long as we point to the more advanced points.

Shawn: Thanks Denis, this is just great! For the ARB, can you try to make it even more open. Maybe post some questions, encourage people to edit, share, comment?

Denis: Yes, but I wanted to wait until I spoke with EO about how to organize. I have places where I point to the Success Criteria and link to Techniques. It makes a long job to find all of those and bring into the wiki.
... before going more public with this I wanted to know what our group thinks of it first.
... most relevant comments that I will need are from people who are architects or other roles to say "this is not relvant to my job" or "I think you have missed some" etc to make it most relevant to their specific role.

Sharron: Would it be a way to get people involved to ask people in various roles to help do that research?

Denis: I want to make sure that what we have with the analysis document is exactly what we want. You take a piece of the Understanding document and follow the process to get the supporting pieces. I guess we could do it that way, but would then need comments on the process.

Andrew: Are you asking if the structure is appropriate before we go to piece it out?

Denis: Yes and breaking down that analysis is the first item in the life cycle, I would start with that one. Each would link to Understanding. The most relevant thing to do is to summarize what the Understanding page says and then bring in the support in a smaller, lighter way.

Andrew: My initial reaction is that it is a good approach, but need some time to examine before commenting.

Shawn: Can you post with specific questions?
... I wondered about the comments in there now - are they directly from the Understanding document? or is this an adaptation?

Denis: Yes, it is adapted. The intent is to bring it to a higher level that is not so precise. So it is not so much re-writing them but interpreting the sense. Asking people to go into the actual document if they need more information.

Shawn: I appreciate your sensitivity to re-writing but these are fluid documents and are open for updating, so if you find things that can be improved, submit those edits to editor's list for consideration.
... going back to Action items...Suzette, shall we go through your items so that you can close out the ones that are done?

BAD for WebEd http://www.w3.org/WAI/EO/wiki/Web_Accessibility_Before-After_Demo_(BAD)

Shawn: You mentioned that the execrcises that Sharron sent were useful because so simple, but perhaps we want to have a range of complexity.

Suzette: Yes, these were useful for a short workshop. We now have outlined three different ways of doing instruction.

Sharron: I used these along with different exercises that are not from BAD. The timing varied and were introduced at different times. Most of them took about 5 to 15 minutes.

Shawn: We can use this in various ways depending on the environment and goals for training.

Suzette: Easily demonstrated things like turning off CSS, turning off images. So from these simple ideas, and each change that you can make.

Shawn: And some is derived from old documents.

Suzette: Useful to let people know that there are quite simple things to do. When it is very elementary, it helps to keep it short and simple. Tieing to BAD keeps it in control.

Shawn: Do we want a section on General Introduction, specific for training web masters

Sharron: there were many different reasons why people were there, some were technical some not so much.

Suzette: The demo would be one part within a larger process. you can use as a quiz or as an interactive exercise, and take a break from just listening and do something for a minute.

Shawn: Do you want to write it up as an instructor guide?

<shawn> http://www.w3.org/WAI/training/Overview.html

Sharron: Sure, but not sure how relevant.

Shawn: Maybe Sharron and Suzette can talk and look at the page we have on using BAD and give instruction for use in various setting. Sharron can also look at the training suite and see how your other exercises might be helpful there.

<shawn> e.g., sharron's recent material might inform http://www.w3.org/WAI/training/presentation- outlines#design

<scribe> ACTION: Sharron to confer with Suzette about using BAD in various teaching scenarios [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2012/04/27-eo- minutes.html#action01]

<scribe> ACTION: Suzette to confer with Sharron about using BAD in various teaching scenarios [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2012/04/27-eo- minutes.html#action02]

<scribe> ACTION: Sharron to review training suite and suggest possible updates related to BAD and beyond [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2012/04/27-eo- minutes.html#action03]

Andrew: It might be useful to review all of the training in the exisiting suite while thinking about roles and how BAD can be used.

Denis: The idea of BAD and ARB is certainly relevant and will help us make sure that all of our materials work well together. May need to be an adaptation for those who don't code.

Andrew: There are things in BAD that will help authors and others who don't code.

Denis: agree

Shawn: Tangent - if you search for something and what comes up is a draft, an old draft, or the wrong thing comes up, please let me know what search terms you use so we can fix it.

Denis: How efficient is the wiki page ranking? It seems that if we put something online and there is even a moderate social media effort to promote it, it should be high because of the strength of the domain.

Accessibility Basics for WebEd http://www.w3.org/WAI/EO/wiki/Web_Accessibility_Basics

Shawn: There have been quite a few changes. Shall we talk about them now or when Vicki is here?

Shawn: encourage everyone to take a look at those changes and be prepared to talk more specifically next week. Vicki wrote a comment and suggested a reorg and rewrite of the part under How PWD use the web. Suzette, what did you think of the suggestions?

Suzette: I thought those were good suggestions. The part crossed out was not especially helpful, but we need another sentence in the intro.
... the two categories of diversity of users and diversity of web use which is about tools and techniques - they are hard to distinguish from each other.

Shawn: Could put the key words first - Tools vs People - rather than the confusing words first.
... to clarify I think that Vicki was trying to clear up the confusion. First the document is a draft and we can change the confusing title. And Suzette if you can tak another edit pass at it and in your rewriting be aware that some people will have trouble seeing a differnce in those two links.

Sharron: So we can change the title of one of them?

Shawn: For now we should point to it as it is, but if we think it is significant, we can send a note to to WAI editors list and request a change.

<shawn> wai- eo-editors@w3.org

<scribe> ACTION: Suzette to send message to WAI EO editor's list to request a change in title of the two "Diversity" articles. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2012/04/27-eo- minutes.html#action04]

Shawn: On Accessibility Principles, I made quite a few changes. if folks can look at that and comment, it would be good.
... anything else on this?

RDWG Symposium Design http://www.w3.org/WAI/EO/Drafts/rd/SP-design

Shawn: reminder that we are issuing a design challenge in which five different things will be distinct and yet the relationship will also be clear. Spread the word and recommend designers.

WAI-Engage Community Group http://www.w3.org/community/wai-engage/

Shawn: Jennison would like a call next week to check in. He suggested 8 pm Eastern time. If anyone wants to participate, please say so.
... clearly not much activity.

Andrew: To join if a W3C member, your org must nominate you, is that correct?
... I tried to join and was not allowed.

Jennifer: Yes, those were the issues I mentioned to you off list Shawn.

Shawn: Wondering how much of this feedback is people being hyper critical and how much is real? Things that are developed in the Community Groups may become W3C documents so you must agree to certain terms. However, the legalese may be off putting to some.

Denis: We are talking about the difficulty of joining WAI Engage? I have not heard what the issues are.

Shawn: It was what you needed to agree to in order to join.

<AndrewA> agreement - http://www.w3.org/community/about/agreements/cla/

Jennifer: It is difficult to know how seriously to take this. Some people are pre- disposed to think there will be bureaucratic obstacles.
... hearing opposition is discouraging to others however.

Shawn: if anyone wants to be on the call, Tuesday let us know.
... one of the things we need to think about is how do we encourage participation in WAI-Engage and what can we realistically expect from it.

Denis: A question, the negative comments about participation in WAI-Engage were on a11y BoK list?

Jennifer: Yes. They are not getting much response and my perspective is that if the effort was brought into WAI I would participate as a volunteer more easily and readily. I think others may feel that way as well. But there is unreasonable resistance in my opinion.

Sharron: I agree and would also be more likely to partiicpate if it was tied to the greater community of WAI. But I don't think we should ignore the few genuine problems that people have had. it is not all based on prejudice.

Denis: yes and I think we can follow up in Austin in May.
... have to leave and will follow up with my action items and will attend on Tuesday if possible.

Face-to-face meetings: EOWG f2f in Nov. ICCHP in July? https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35532/eo2012f2f/

shawn: Please remember to update availability at f2f options
... will be meeting at TPAC, maybe at other events

Availability for Upcoming EOWG Teleconferences http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35532/availability/

shawn: also reminds people to update forthcoming teleconf availability into May and June
... any other business?

Jennifer: wondering if anything of particular interest came out of W4A conf

Shawn: eAccess Hub and a11yBOK came up
... question about accessibility definition, eg low bandwidth and other non-disability aspects
... active discussion ensued

Andrew: keep the focus on disability while being sure to mention all the additional benefits

shawn I think it's important to keep accessibility focused on people with disabilities; to promote the additional benefits of accessibility; and to understand the relationship with broader inclusive design, etc.

shawn This note is relvant from WAI Overview. http://www.w3.org/WAI/users/Overview.html "Inclusive design, design for all, digital inclusion, universal usability, and similar efforts address a broad range of issues in making technology available to and usable by all people whatever their abilities, age, economic situation, education, geographic location, language, etc. Accessibility focuses on people with disabilities - people with auditory,cognitive, neurological, physical, speech, and visual impairments."

Jennifer: also mentions discussion about 'universal design' and what it means

Summary of Action Items

[NEW] ACTION: Sharron to confer with Suzette about using BAD in various teaching scenarios [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2012/04/27-eo- minutes.html#action01]
[NEW] ACTION: Sharron to review training suite and suggest possible updates related to BAD and beyond [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2012/04/27-eo- minutes.html#action03]
[NEW] ACTION: Suzette to confer with Sharron about using BAD in various teaching scenarios [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2012/04/27-eo- minutes.html#action02]
[NEW] ACTION: Suzette to send message to WAI EO editor's list to request a change in title of the two "Diversity" articles. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2012/04/27-eo- minutes.html#action04]

[End of minutes]

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$Date: 2012/05/07 16:11:05 $