See also: IRC log
<trackbot> Date: 26 April 2012
<MikeSmith> scribe: janina
<MikeSmith> oops
<MikeSmith> scribe: MichaelC
<MikeSmith> scribe: MikeSmith
janina: we told teh chairs we had
a 204 proposal last week
... and we had a ton of further development on that since
... and Cynthia has put that into a proposal, Tuesday early
evening
... I wrote to the chairs to say that I think it's ready
... but after that we had some more feedback, primarily for
Benjamin Hawkes-Lewis
... and and initiated a 48-hour CfC, which expires
tomorrow
... at this point, maybe we should look together at his
comments
... and asked if he might be able to be on teh call today, but
he demurred
... Laura has said she will retract her CP if we put this
forward
judy: my impression from Laura's reply to Ben's comment was that she felt it might be addressable in Cynthia's CP
<janina> Here's Benjamin's objection:
<janina> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-a11y/2012Apr/0199.html
JF: one of his principle
objections is that it makes it conforming to hide labels using
the hidden attribute
... but part of it is, we are just trying to document
reality
... the pont of the CP is not to add or extend functionality
that does not exist, but to document what does
... there are some pretty heavy restrictions on what you can
and can't do
<judy> I think Benjamin's objection is in a later mail: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-a11y/2012Apr/0200.html
janina: there are examples in the
CP where the CP says just that
... what we are talking about here is not a zero value, but
somethign quite small
JF: the first paragraph of that message is his objection
[[
I object to a CP that makes it conforming to hide labels and
short descriptions with @hidden, as I don't believe a persuasive case
has been made that this helps users or authors.
]]
JF: I don't think we are trying to make a persuasive case, but just documenting that it *can* be done
janina: wonderful statement in
there is that this can already happen and people are already
doing to, but the purpose is defining what the realistic
limitations are
... but there are misunderstandings about what goes with it
JF: I asked Ben before to give us the actual quotes from the specs that he says we are contradicting
<janina> mike: See he's clearly saying "it violates the spec," but doesn't tell us where/how
<janina> janina: I'll do that
JF: I want to note that Matthew Turvey also responded and said why don't we just adopt his CP
<janina> jf: Wanted to note that Matt also commented and pointed to a Bugzilla thread
<scribe> scribe: janina
janina: Yes, but that wasn't specifically to the 48-hour call
rich: I've reviewed the I204 and think it's perfectly good
jf: So you don't see any contradictions between the CP and ARIA spec?
rich: No contradictions
jf: Should we do a poll?
judy: Think that's important
Please +1 if you support the Issue-204 CP at http://www.w3.org/html/wg/wiki/Correct_Hidden_Attribute_Section_v2
<JF> I for one support that Change Proposal
+1
<JF> so +1
<richardschwerdtfe> +1
<judy> +1
<JF> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/wiki/ChangeProposal/Issue203
<MikeSmith> janina: John needs help getting the details written
rich: So asking for longdesc not describedat?
jf: A mechanism for short and
long text description?
... Mechanisms we have now in HTML 5 are alt and (hopefully)
longdesc -- noting the dependency on Issue-30
rich: What does alt do here with
images turned off?
... alt pertains to the video file, not the poster,
correct?
jf: correct
rich: So alt is rendered with images off?
jf: Correct
rich: Doesn't title get rendered with images off?
jf: Quoting spec ... re a11y
janina: The thing that gets lost in these conversations is that when the video is not running it functions on screen as a static image
rich: Does this CP talk about
that? Should it?
... So, if images are turned off, user has contextual info
about that video ...
... Important that we don't want that rendered with video
running
... Needs to state somehwere that alt goes away when the video
is triggered to run
jf: I need technical/editorial assistance to write this correctly
rich: Silvia?
jf: Silvia is adament that a
transcript would suffice as a long description
... believe the community would not accept that
janina: definitely not, no question
rich: is there a proposal from Ted? Is there a URI
mike: Don't think anyone knows
rich: We do have some
proposals
... also have email of new info on carat etc would like use
cases moved from what-wg wiki to the proposal
michael: trying to understand
other cp issues
... seem to be some misunderstanding but also some difference
on approach
... want feedback not by reference, other cp seems to prefer
reference
rich: html does define the root ref when svg and mathml are incorporated by ref, but aria doesn't work that way
michael: willing to go back to a reference approach
rich: we don't want to change the spec every time we change aria
micael: also role attribute not defined by aria
rich: need to defer to uaig processing rules
michael: also, ian pushed back on
role=list
... only processes the first
rich: there's no basis on how
expensive this is, at least at this time
... currently, uaig says first valid role is the one used
<judy> === Summary of Text Alternatives Sub-Team of HTML A11Y TF ===
<judy> http://www.w3.org/2012/04/24-text-minutes.html
<judy> Reviewed CP deadlines and coordination in progress
<judy> Need to resolves priorities between Issue 203 & Issue 199
<judy> Requests from H5 CoChairs for more info on Issue 194: Video transcript
<judy> Review of actual alts in HTML WG specs, David completed review
mike: One more important thing
<judy> Intend to present these as bugs at level of editorial clarifications
<judy> Review of alt guidance in HTML5 spec and SF's doc, David also taking up
<judy> DM & JS having work session on both this Friday
<judy> Issue 204, ARIA hidden, John merging his CP, Laura likely to w/ pending edits
<judy> Issue 31c, Meta generator, draft CP in progress, available for comment shortly
<judy> Issue 203, Media descriptions, John expects to have draft by Thursday
<judy> Issue 194, Video transcripts, Mike will have on agenda this Thursday
<judy> === end of text subteam report ===
judy: also still working on meta generator draft ...
mike: other business for today?
[silence]
mike: no meeting next week
...
... we have the f2f
... next meeting may 9
<MikeSmith> chair's feedback about JF issue-194 - http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2012Apr/0141.html
This is scribe.perl Revision: 1.136 of Date: 2011/05/12 12:01:43 Check for newer version at http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/ Guessing input format: RRSAgent_Text_Format (score 1.00) Succeeded: s/was addressable/might be addressable/ Found Scribe: janina Inferring ScribeNick: janina Found Scribe: MichaelC Found Scribe: MikeSmith Inferring ScribeNick: MikeSmith Found Scribe: janina Inferring ScribeNick: janina Scribes: janina, MichaelC, MikeSmith ScribeNicks: janina, MikeSmith Default Present: John_Foliot, Janina, Judy, Mike, Cooper, Rich, Cynthia_Shelly Present: John_Foliot Janina Judy Mike Cooper Rich Cynthia_Shelly Regrets: Steve Laura David_McDonald Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-a11y/2012Apr/0207.html Found Date: 26 Apr 2012 Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2012/04/26-html-a11y-minutes.html People with action items:[End of scribe.perl diagnostic output]