14:57:48 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #webtv
14:57:48 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2012/04/19-webtv-irc
14:57:53 <kaz> zakim, call kazuyuki-617
14:57:53 <Zakim> sorry, kaz, I don't know what conference this is
14:58:07 <kaz> zakim, this will be webtv
14:58:07 <Zakim> ok, kaz, I see UW_WebTVIG()11:00AM already started
14:58:11 <kaz> zakim, call kazuyuki-617
14:58:11 <Zakim> ok, kaz; the call is being made
14:58:12 <Zakim> +Kazuyuki
14:58:35 <kaz> zakim, who is here?
14:58:35 <Zakim> On the phone I see +1.206.218.aaaa, Kazuyuki
14:58:36 <Zakim> On IRC I see RRSAgent, Zakim, kaz, acolwell, glenn, masao, timeless, trackbot
14:58:44 <joesteele> joesteele has joined #webtv
14:58:56 <kaz> zakim, aaaa is Aaron_Colwell
14:58:56 <Zakim> +Aaron_Colwell; got it
14:59:29 <Clarke> Clarke has joined #webtv
14:59:35 <Zakim> + +1.408.536.aabb
14:59:46 <joesteele> zakim, aabb is joesteele
14:59:46 <Zakim> +joesteele; got it
15:00:01 <kaz> zakim, Joe_Steele
15:00:01 <Zakim> I don't understand 'Joe_Steele', kaz
15:00:05 <nisc> nisc has joined #webtv
15:00:07 <kaz> zakim, aabb is Joe_Steele
15:00:07 <Zakim> sorry, kaz, I do not recognize a party named 'aabb'
15:00:09 <Zakim> +??P0
15:00:21 <Clarke> zakim, ??P0 is me
15:00:22 <Zakim> +Clarke; got it
15:00:29 <Zakim> +??P7
15:00:39 <glenn> zakim, ??p7 is glenn
15:00:39 <Zakim> +glenn; got it
15:00:55 <Zakim> +??P11
15:01:15 <David_Corvoysier> David_Corvoysier has joined #webtv
15:01:23 <nisc> zakim, ??P11 is me
15:01:23 <Zakim> +nisc; got it
15:01:31 <nisc> yakim, nisc is Niklas_Schmücker
15:01:35 <Zakim> +??P13
15:01:37 <nisc> zakim, nisc is Niklas_Schmücker
15:01:37 <Zakim> +Niklas_Schmücker; got it
15:02:02 <kaz> zakim, ??P13 is Juhani
15:02:02 <Zakim> +Juhani; got it
15:02:16 <Zakim> +Cecile_Marc
15:02:16 <Juhani> Juhani has joined #webtv
15:02:38 <kaz> zakim, Cecile_Marc is David
15:02:38 <Zakim> +David; got it
15:02:57 <kaz> zakim, David is David_Corvoysier
15:03:00 <kaz> zakim, mute me
15:03:10 <Zakim> +David_Corvoysier; got it
15:03:16 <Zakim> Kazuyuki should now be muted
15:03:18 <Zakim> +??P29
15:03:23 <kaz> zakim, unmute me
15:03:26 <Zakim> -David_Corvoysier
15:03:30 <Zakim> Kazuyuki should no longer be muted
15:03:41 <kaz> zakim, ??P29 is Bob_Lund
15:03:41 <Zakim> +Bob_Lund; got it
15:04:10 <Zakim> +[Microsoft]
15:04:25 <kaz> zakim, Microsoft is John_Simmons
15:04:25 <Zakim> +John_Simmons; got it
15:04:40 <kaz> zakim, who is here?
15:04:40 <Zakim> On the phone I see Aaron_Colwell, Kazuyuki, joesteele, Clarke, glenn (muted), Niklas_Schmücker, Juhani, Bob_Lund, John_Simmons
15:04:42 <Zakim> On IRC I see Juhani, David_Corvoysier, nisc, Clarke, joesteele, RRSAgent, Zakim, kaz, acolwell, glenn, masao, timeless, trackbot
15:05:21 <nisc> zakim, mute me
15:05:21 <Zakim> sorry, nisc, I do not know which phone connection belongs to you
15:05:36 <johnsim> johnsim has joined #webtv
15:05:58 <kaz> zakim, mute Niklas
15:05:58 <Zakim> Niklas_Schmücker should now be muted
15:06:06 <Zakim> +David_Corvoysier
15:06:08 <Clarke> agenda: http://www.w3.org/2011/webtv/wiki/MPTF/Agenda_Telco_19th_April_2012
15:06:43 <David_Corvoysier> Agenda: a couple of items
15:06:56 <Zakim> +Mark_Vickers
15:07:02 <David_Corvoysier> 1 - Status of the Media TF in HTML
15:07:09 <David_Corvoysier> 2 - Requirements
15:07:27 <mark_vickers> mark_vickers has joined #webtv
15:07:36 <BobLund> BobLund has joined #webtv
15:07:36 <kaz> topic: Status of the Media TF in the HTML WG
15:07:38 <David_Corvoysier> Clarke -> Call for consensus on the creation of the Media TF in HTML ended yesterday
15:07:57 <David_Corvoysier> Clarke -> Not more insight on what will happen next
15:07:59 <Zakim> + +1.415.867.aacc
15:08:24 <David_Corvoysier> John -> Not familiar with the process
15:08:27 <kaz> s/Clarke ->/Clarke: /g
15:08:35 <kaz> s/John ->/John: /
15:08:40 <David_Corvoysier> ?? -> It will be on the agenda of the HTML TF today
15:09:10 <kaz> s/?? ->/markV:/
15:09:32 <kaz> zakim, aacc is Mark_Watson
15:09:32 <Zakim> +Mark_Watson; got it
15:10:05 <kaz> topic: Discuss status of open MPTF bugs and what (if anything) still needs to be done with them
15:10:20 <David_Corvoysier> Clarke: Bugs: a precision has been added on one of the bugs
15:10:27 <kaz> -> http://www.w3.org/2011/webtv/wiki/MPTF Dashboard wiki
15:10:47 <David_Corvoysier> Clarke: Did anybody notice new bugs relevant to this group ?
15:10:53 <David_Corvoysier> -> No answer
15:10:56 <Zakim> +Canon
15:11:04 <David_Corvoysier> Next topic: requirements document
15:11:09 <Clarke> ABR Requirements: http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/webtv/raw-file/35ffe94c6c64/mpreq/MPTF-ADB-Requirements.html
15:11:14 <kaz> zakim, Canon is Franck
15:11:14 <Zakim> +Franck; got it
15:11:24 <kaz> s/Next topic:/topic:/
15:11:39 <David_Corvoysier> Clarke: Apologize for being a mercurial newbie
15:11:53 <David_Corvoysier> Clarke: Feel free to make changes and help me updating the document
15:12:09 <kaz> -> http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/webtv/raw-file/35ffe94c6c64/mpreq/MPTF-ADB-Requirements.html Latest draft
15:12:27 <David_Corvoysier> Clarke: Not everything seems to have been pushed to mercurial
15:12:48 <ph> ph has joined #webtv
15:13:01 <ph> zakim, call philipp-home
15:13:01 <Zakim> ok, ph; the call is being made
15:13:02 <Zakim> +Philipp
15:13:30 <franck> franck has joined #webtv
15:13:31 <joesteele> I am muted ...
15:13:31 <ph> ty
15:13:31 <kaz> zakim, who is noisy?
15:13:40 <David_Corvoysier> Clarke: Opinions on the ABR reqs ? Terminology section ?
15:13:42 <Zakim> kaz, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: Clarke (9%), Philipp (78%)
15:13:48 <kaz> zakim, mute ph
15:13:48 <Zakim> Philipp should now be muted
15:13:59 <Zakim> -Philipp
15:14:26 <David_Corvoysier> Mark: Active ids is not required
15:14:31 <ph> zakim, call philipp-home
15:14:31 <Zakim> ok, ph; the call is being made
15:14:33 <Zakim> +Philipp
15:14:34 <kaz> zakim, who is noisy?
15:14:39 <acolwell> http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/html-media/raw-file/tip/media-source/media-source.html
15:14:45 <Mark_Vickers> Mark_Vickers has joined #webtv
15:14:45 <Zakim> kaz, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: Clarke (10%), joesteele (45%)
15:14:57 <David_Corvoysier> Mark: update the url to the meida source proposal already submitted to the W3C
15:15:35 <David_Corvoysier> Clarke: Source/Track buffers ? any comments
15:15:45 <kaz> zakim, who is speaking?
15:15:56 <Zakim> kaz, listening for 10 seconds I could not identify any sounds
15:16:22 <kaz> s/Mark:/Aaron:/
15:16:36 <kaz> s/Mark:/Aaron:/
15:17:26 <David_Corvoysier> Clarke: Maybe these terms should be only explaine din the referenced proposals
15:18:28 <David_Corvoysier> Clarke: Missing Definitions have been posted to local repo: should be upstream soon 
15:18:53 <David_Corvoysier> Clarke: Anything missing in paragraph 4
15:19:14 <David_Corvoysier> Joe: What was the resolution on the errors ?
15:19:23 <David_Corvoysier> Clarke: That's still open
15:21:02 <David_Corvoysier> Clarke: 4.1.2 media tag instead of audio & video ? did that to differentiate from the object tag 
15:23:22 <David_Corvoysier> Clarke: in paragraph 4, one must be very careful with the language used to express the fact that everything should be open, both in terms of solutions and implementations 
15:23:36 <David_Corvoysier> ??: open is a loaded word
15:23:39 <kaz> q+ to suggest we mention ABR stands for Adaptive Bit Rate somewhere
15:23:44 <kaz> s/??:/John:/
15:24:05 <kaz> zakim, who is speaking?
15:24:16 <Zakim> kaz, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: Clarke (27%), John_Simmons (4%)
15:24:35 <David_Corvoysier> John: whatever ABR techno is used is not important: enabling a techno is not specifying it
15:25:44 <David_Corvoysier> Clarke: little uncomfortable with language related to open source browsers 
15:26:07 <David_Corvoysier> John: examples of where this req should apply ?
15:26:51 <David_Corvoysier> Clarke: I want to avoid to imply that if an ABR solution is not open source, it cannot be made available in an open source browser
15:28:35 <David_Corvoysier> Mark: some formats will _not_ be supported by all UAs
15:28:56 <David_Corvoysier> John: To that extent req 4.1.9 cannot fully apply
15:30:18 <David_Corvoysier> Aaron?: It should be possible to create an ABR system that everybody supports ?
15:30:34 <kaz> zakim, who is speaking?
15:30:45 <Zakim> kaz, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: Clarke (100%)
15:30:59 <kaz> zakim, who is speaking?
15:31:10 <Zakim> kaz, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: Bob_Lund (15%)
15:31:44 <David_Corvoysier> Aaron: I am not advocating for us choosing a format, but there may be an open source format option, that is a format that could be implemented by every UA
15:31:54 <David_Corvoysier> John: What is the definition ? RF ?
15:31:59 <kaz> s/Aaron?:/Aaron:/
15:32:37 <David_Corvoysier> Joe: Is there a W3C definition of what _is_ open source ?
15:33:40 <David_Corvoysier> Philipp?: By definition, a spec is not source code. The question is whether it can be implemented in an open source environment
15:34:05 <kaz> -> http://www.w3.org/2003/glossary/keyword/All/open%20source.html?keywords=open%20source w3c glossary (just fyi)
15:34:10 <David_Corvoysier> Philipp?: I don't have the answer: would need to check with open source experts
15:34:17 <kaz> s/Philipp?:/Philipp:/g
15:34:27 <David_Corvoysier> ??: Do we need this req altogether ?
15:34:39 <kaz> s/??:/John:/
15:35:07 <David_Corvoysier> John: The debate is not open source vesus closed source: it seems more related to being agnostic to ABR systems
15:36:30 <David_Corvoysier> John: You don't need to specify anything specific to any ABR system, actually: only specify the spec allowing to use them
15:37:22 <David_Corvoysier> Clarke: Just want to make sure we don't prevent any implementation in open source browser
15:37:52 <David_Corvoysier> Mark: We are mixing spec and code (and confusing the scribe a lot !!!)
15:38:27 <David_Corvoysier> Mark: The fact that a specification has to be published for free encourages the implementation of it by open source
15:40:01 <David_Corvoysier> Mark: The issue in all W3C spec, especially with these two, is that there is nothing implying that the tech below the W3C specs need to be RF also 
15:40:45 <David_Corvoysier> Clarke: I am willing to be convinced that req 4.1.9 is implicit: is that the consensus in the group^
15:42:09 <joesteele> +1 implicit
15:42:11 <David_Corvoysier> Aaron: I would say that the W3C spec for ABR or EC must be implementable RF
15:42:47 <glenn> are you saying that *all* ABR/ECs need to be implementable RF?
15:44:34 <David_Corvoysier> Juhani?: The API must work with open source browser, but we should not tak any position related to format or the Royalties associated to lower level APIs
15:44:48 <glenn> i agree that the API itself (that W3C defines) should be implementable RF, but it goes to far to say that the underlying semantics of a specific ABR (that is exposed by that API) must also be implementable RF
15:44:56 <David_Corvoysier> Clarke: We should to be more explicit in this req
15:44:58 <glenn> s/to far/too far/
15:45:51 <David_Corvoysier> Clarke: Still no consensus, will leave it in by default until we work on the wording
15:46:32 <David_Corvoysier> Joe: Something alogn the lines could be added "To the extent that the W3C already requires specs to be RF"
15:46:49 <Juhani> +1
15:47:07 <David_Corvoysier> Clarke: Would suggest wording
15:48:39 <David_Corvoysier> Bob: Could we be more explicit that audio abd video should support playback of content delivered using ABR
15:49:27 <David_Corvoysier> Clarke: Will take Bob's suggested wording offline
15:50:52 <David_Corvoysier> Clarke: About parameters, the clarification that i am trying to make is that we don't limit the number of parameters that can be used, but instead specify a minimum set
15:51:28 <David_Corvoysier> Clarke: A pretty good starting place here !
15:52:13 <David_Corvoysier> Clarke: Please take a look at this doc next week, and also on the EC doc (hope the changes will be pushed this time)
15:52:24 <kaz> q?
15:52:30 <David_Corvoysier> Clarke: AOB ? Not ?
15:52:36 <Zakim> -Mark_Vickers
15:52:37 <Zakim> -joesteele
15:52:38 <Zakim> -Clarke
15:52:39 <Zakim> -Juhani
15:52:39 <Zakim> -Mark_Watson
15:52:39 <Zakim> -glenn
15:52:41 <Zakim> -Franck
15:52:41 <Zakim> -Aaron_Colwell
15:52:43 <Zakim> -Bob_Lund
15:52:43 <David_Corvoysier> Meeting adjourned
15:52:44 <Zakim> -John_Simmons
15:52:47 <Clarke> Thanks, David
15:52:48 <Zakim> -Kazuyuki
15:52:58 <Zakim> -Philipp
15:53:18 <kaz> Present: Aaron_Colwell, Kazuyuki, joesteele, Clarke, glenn, Niklas_Schmücker, Juhani, Bob_Lund, John_Simmons, David_Corvoysier, Mark_Vickers, Mark_Watson, Franck, Philipp
15:53:24 <Clarke> Clarke has left #webtv
15:53:30 <kaz> Meeting: Media Pipeline Task Force call
15:53:35 <kaz> Chair: Clarke
15:53:45 <kaz> Scribe: David_Corvoysier
15:54:13 <Zakim> -David_Corvoysier
15:54:20 <kaz> [ adjourned ]
15:54:25 <kaz> rrsagent, make log public
15:54:31 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
15:54:31 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/04/19-webtv-minutes.html kaz
15:54:59 <kaz> q-
15:55:28 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
15:55:28 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/04/19-webtv-minutes.html kaz
15:55:43 <kaz> zakim, who is here?
15:55:43 <Zakim> On the phone I see Niklas_Schmücker
15:55:44 <Zakim> On IRC I see Mark_Vickers, johnsim, David_Corvoysier, nisc, joesteele, RRSAgent, Zakim, kaz, glenn, masao, timeless, trackbot
15:55:57 <joesteele> joesteele has left #webtv
15:55:59 <kaz> rrsagent, stop