IRC log of webtv on 2012-04-19

Timestamps are in UTC.

14:57:48 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #webtv
14:57:48 [RRSAgent]
logging to http://www.w3.org/2012/04/19-webtv-irc
14:57:53 [kaz]
zakim, call kazuyuki-617
14:57:53 [Zakim]
sorry, kaz, I don't know what conference this is
14:58:07 [kaz]
zakim, this will be webtv
14:58:07 [Zakim]
ok, kaz, I see UW_WebTVIG()11:00AM already started
14:58:11 [kaz]
zakim, call kazuyuki-617
14:58:11 [Zakim]
ok, kaz; the call is being made
14:58:12 [Zakim]
+Kazuyuki
14:58:35 [kaz]
zakim, who is here?
14:58:35 [Zakim]
On the phone I see +1.206.218.aaaa, Kazuyuki
14:58:36 [Zakim]
On IRC I see RRSAgent, Zakim, kaz, acolwell, glenn, masao, timeless, trackbot
14:58:44 [joesteele]
joesteele has joined #webtv
14:58:56 [kaz]
zakim, aaaa is Aaron_Colwell
14:58:56 [Zakim]
+Aaron_Colwell; got it
14:59:29 [Clarke]
Clarke has joined #webtv
14:59:35 [Zakim]
+ +1.408.536.aabb
14:59:46 [joesteele]
zakim, aabb is joesteele
14:59:46 [Zakim]
+joesteele; got it
15:00:01 [kaz]
zakim, Joe_Steele
15:00:01 [Zakim]
I don't understand 'Joe_Steele', kaz
15:00:05 [nisc]
nisc has joined #webtv
15:00:07 [kaz]
zakim, aabb is Joe_Steele
15:00:07 [Zakim]
sorry, kaz, I do not recognize a party named 'aabb'
15:00:09 [Zakim]
+??P0
15:00:21 [Clarke]
zakim, ??P0 is me
15:00:22 [Zakim]
+Clarke; got it
15:00:29 [Zakim]
+??P7
15:00:39 [glenn]
zakim, ??p7 is glenn
15:00:39 [Zakim]
+glenn; got it
15:00:55 [Zakim]
+??P11
15:01:15 [David_Corvoysier]
David_Corvoysier has joined #webtv
15:01:23 [nisc]
zakim, ??P11 is me
15:01:23 [Zakim]
+nisc; got it
15:01:31 [nisc]
yakim, nisc is Niklas_Schmücker
15:01:35 [Zakim]
+??P13
15:01:37 [nisc]
zakim, nisc is Niklas_Schmücker
15:01:37 [Zakim]
+Niklas_Schmücker; got it
15:02:02 [kaz]
zakim, ??P13 is Juhani
15:02:02 [Zakim]
+Juhani; got it
15:02:16 [Zakim]
+Cecile_Marc
15:02:16 [Juhani]
Juhani has joined #webtv
15:02:38 [kaz]
zakim, Cecile_Marc is David
15:02:38 [Zakim]
+David; got it
15:02:57 [kaz]
zakim, David is David_Corvoysier
15:03:00 [kaz]
zakim, mute me
15:03:10 [Zakim]
+David_Corvoysier; got it
15:03:16 [Zakim]
Kazuyuki should now be muted
15:03:18 [Zakim]
+??P29
15:03:23 [kaz]
zakim, unmute me
15:03:26 [Zakim]
-David_Corvoysier
15:03:30 [Zakim]
Kazuyuki should no longer be muted
15:03:41 [kaz]
zakim, ??P29 is Bob_Lund
15:03:41 [Zakim]
+Bob_Lund; got it
15:04:10 [Zakim]
+[Microsoft]
15:04:25 [kaz]
zakim, Microsoft is John_Simmons
15:04:25 [Zakim]
+John_Simmons; got it
15:04:40 [kaz]
zakim, who is here?
15:04:40 [Zakim]
On the phone I see Aaron_Colwell, Kazuyuki, joesteele, Clarke, glenn (muted), Niklas_Schmücker, Juhani, Bob_Lund, John_Simmons
15:04:42 [Zakim]
On IRC I see Juhani, David_Corvoysier, nisc, Clarke, joesteele, RRSAgent, Zakim, kaz, acolwell, glenn, masao, timeless, trackbot
15:05:21 [nisc]
zakim, mute me
15:05:21 [Zakim]
sorry, nisc, I do not know which phone connection belongs to you
15:05:36 [johnsim]
johnsim has joined #webtv
15:05:58 [kaz]
zakim, mute Niklas
15:05:58 [Zakim]
Niklas_Schmücker should now be muted
15:06:06 [Zakim]
+David_Corvoysier
15:06:08 [Clarke]
agenda: http://www.w3.org/2011/webtv/wiki/MPTF/Agenda_Telco_19th_April_2012
15:06:43 [David_Corvoysier]
Agenda: a couple of items
15:06:56 [Zakim]
+Mark_Vickers
15:07:02 [David_Corvoysier]
1 - Status of the Media TF in HTML
15:07:09 [David_Corvoysier]
2 - Requirements
15:07:27 [mark_vickers]
mark_vickers has joined #webtv
15:07:36 [BobLund]
BobLund has joined #webtv
15:07:36 [kaz]
topic: Status of the Media TF in the HTML WG
15:07:38 [David_Corvoysier]
Clarke -> Call for consensus on the creation of the Media TF in HTML ended yesterday
15:07:57 [David_Corvoysier]
Clarke -> Not more insight on what will happen next
15:07:59 [Zakim]
+ +1.415.867.aacc
15:08:24 [David_Corvoysier]
John -> Not familiar with the process
15:08:27 [kaz]
s/Clarke ->/Clarke: /g
15:08:35 [kaz]
s/John ->/John: /
15:08:40 [David_Corvoysier]
?? -> It will be on the agenda of the HTML TF today
15:09:10 [kaz]
s/?? ->/markV:/
15:09:32 [kaz]
zakim, aacc is Mark_Watson
15:09:32 [Zakim]
+Mark_Watson; got it
15:10:05 [kaz]
topic: Discuss status of open MPTF bugs and what (if anything) still needs to be done with them
15:10:20 [David_Corvoysier]
Clarke: Bugs: a precision has been added on one of the bugs
15:10:27 [kaz]
-> http://www.w3.org/2011/webtv/wiki/MPTF Dashboard wiki
15:10:47 [David_Corvoysier]
Clarke: Did anybody notice new bugs relevant to this group ?
15:10:53 [David_Corvoysier]
-> No answer
15:10:56 [Zakim]
+Canon
15:11:04 [David_Corvoysier]
Next topic: requirements document
15:11:09 [Clarke]
ABR Requirements: http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/webtv/raw-file/35ffe94c6c64/mpreq/MPTF-ADB-Requirements.html
15:11:14 [kaz]
zakim, Canon is Franck
15:11:14 [Zakim]
+Franck; got it
15:11:24 [kaz]
s/Next topic:/topic:/
15:11:39 [David_Corvoysier]
Clarke: Apologize for being a mercurial newbie
15:11:53 [David_Corvoysier]
Clarke: Feel free to make changes and help me updating the document
15:12:09 [kaz]
-> http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/webtv/raw-file/35ffe94c6c64/mpreq/MPTF-ADB-Requirements.html Latest draft
15:12:27 [David_Corvoysier]
Clarke: Not everything seems to have been pushed to mercurial
15:12:48 [ph]
ph has joined #webtv
15:13:01 [ph]
zakim, call philipp-home
15:13:01 [Zakim]
ok, ph; the call is being made
15:13:02 [Zakim]
+Philipp
15:13:30 [franck]
franck has joined #webtv
15:13:31 [joesteele]
I am muted ...
15:13:31 [ph]
ty
15:13:31 [kaz]
zakim, who is noisy?
15:13:40 [David_Corvoysier]
Clarke: Opinions on the ABR reqs ? Terminology section ?
15:13:42 [Zakim]
kaz, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: Clarke (9%), Philipp (78%)
15:13:48 [kaz]
zakim, mute ph
15:13:48 [Zakim]
Philipp should now be muted
15:13:59 [Zakim]
-Philipp
15:14:26 [David_Corvoysier]
Mark: Active ids is not required
15:14:31 [ph]
zakim, call philipp-home
15:14:31 [Zakim]
ok, ph; the call is being made
15:14:33 [Zakim]
+Philipp
15:14:34 [kaz]
zakim, who is noisy?
15:14:39 [acolwell]
http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/html-media/raw-file/tip/media-source/media-source.html
15:14:45 [Mark_Vickers]
Mark_Vickers has joined #webtv
15:14:45 [Zakim]
kaz, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: Clarke (10%), joesteele (45%)
15:14:57 [David_Corvoysier]
Mark: update the url to the meida source proposal already submitted to the W3C
15:15:35 [David_Corvoysier]
Clarke: Source/Track buffers ? any comments
15:15:45 [kaz]
zakim, who is speaking?
15:15:56 [Zakim]
kaz, listening for 10 seconds I could not identify any sounds
15:16:22 [kaz]
s/Mark:/Aaron:/
15:16:36 [kaz]
s/Mark:/Aaron:/
15:17:26 [David_Corvoysier]
Clarke: Maybe these terms should be only explaine din the referenced proposals
15:18:28 [David_Corvoysier]
Clarke: Missing Definitions have been posted to local repo: should be upstream soon
15:18:53 [David_Corvoysier]
Clarke: Anything missing in paragraph 4
15:19:14 [David_Corvoysier]
Joe: What was the resolution on the errors ?
15:19:23 [David_Corvoysier]
Clarke: That's still open
15:21:02 [David_Corvoysier]
Clarke: 4.1.2 media tag instead of audio & video ? did that to differentiate from the object tag
15:23:22 [David_Corvoysier]
Clarke: in paragraph 4, one must be very careful with the language used to express the fact that everything should be open, both in terms of solutions and implementations
15:23:36 [David_Corvoysier]
??: open is a loaded word
15:23:39 [kaz]
q+ to suggest we mention ABR stands for Adaptive Bit Rate somewhere
15:23:44 [kaz]
s/??:/John:/
15:24:05 [kaz]
zakim, who is speaking?
15:24:16 [Zakim]
kaz, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: Clarke (27%), John_Simmons (4%)
15:24:35 [David_Corvoysier]
John: whatever ABR techno is used is not important: enabling a techno is not specifying it
15:25:44 [David_Corvoysier]
Clarke: little uncomfortable with language related to open source browsers
15:26:07 [David_Corvoysier]
John: examples of where this req should apply ?
15:26:51 [David_Corvoysier]
Clarke: I want to avoid to imply that if an ABR solution is not open source, it cannot be made available in an open source browser
15:28:35 [David_Corvoysier]
Mark: some formats will _not_ be supported by all UAs
15:28:56 [David_Corvoysier]
John: To that extent req 4.1.9 cannot fully apply
15:30:18 [David_Corvoysier]
Aaron?: It should be possible to create an ABR system that everybody supports ?
15:30:34 [kaz]
zakim, who is speaking?
15:30:45 [Zakim]
kaz, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: Clarke (100%)
15:30:59 [kaz]
zakim, who is speaking?
15:31:10 [Zakim]
kaz, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: Bob_Lund (15%)
15:31:44 [David_Corvoysier]
Aaron: I am not advocating for us choosing a format, but there may be an open source format option, that is a format that could be implemented by every UA
15:31:54 [David_Corvoysier]
John: What is the definition ? RF ?
15:31:59 [kaz]
s/Aaron?:/Aaron:/
15:32:37 [David_Corvoysier]
Joe: Is there a W3C definition of what _is_ open source ?
15:33:40 [David_Corvoysier]
Philipp?: By definition, a spec is not source code. The question is whether it can be implemented in an open source environment
15:34:05 [kaz]
-> http://www.w3.org/2003/glossary/keyword/All/open%20source.html?keywords=open%20source w3c glossary (just fyi)
15:34:10 [David_Corvoysier]
Philipp?: I don't have the answer: would need to check with open source experts
15:34:17 [kaz]
s/Philipp?:/Philipp:/g
15:34:27 [David_Corvoysier]
??: Do we need this req altogether ?
15:34:39 [kaz]
s/??:/John:/
15:35:07 [David_Corvoysier]
John: The debate is not open source vesus closed source: it seems more related to being agnostic to ABR systems
15:36:30 [David_Corvoysier]
John: You don't need to specify anything specific to any ABR system, actually: only specify the spec allowing to use them
15:37:22 [David_Corvoysier]
Clarke: Just want to make sure we don't prevent any implementation in open source browser
15:37:52 [David_Corvoysier]
Mark: We are mixing spec and code (and confusing the scribe a lot !!!)
15:38:27 [David_Corvoysier]
Mark: The fact that a specification has to be published for free encourages the implementation of it by open source
15:40:01 [David_Corvoysier]
Mark: The issue in all W3C spec, especially with these two, is that there is nothing implying that the tech below the W3C specs need to be RF also
15:40:45 [David_Corvoysier]
Clarke: I am willing to be convinced that req 4.1.9 is implicit: is that the consensus in the group^
15:42:09 [joesteele]
+1 implicit
15:42:11 [David_Corvoysier]
Aaron: I would say that the W3C spec for ABR or EC must be implementable RF
15:42:47 [glenn]
are you saying that *all* ABR/ECs need to be implementable RF?
15:44:34 [David_Corvoysier]
Juhani?: The API must work with open source browser, but we should not tak any position related to format or the Royalties associated to lower level APIs
15:44:48 [glenn]
i agree that the API itself (that W3C defines) should be implementable RF, but it goes to far to say that the underlying semantics of a specific ABR (that is exposed by that API) must also be implementable RF
15:44:56 [David_Corvoysier]
Clarke: We should to be more explicit in this req
15:44:58 [glenn]
s/to far/too far/
15:45:51 [David_Corvoysier]
Clarke: Still no consensus, will leave it in by default until we work on the wording
15:46:32 [David_Corvoysier]
Joe: Something alogn the lines could be added "To the extent that the W3C already requires specs to be RF"
15:46:49 [Juhani]
+1
15:47:07 [David_Corvoysier]
Clarke: Would suggest wording
15:48:39 [David_Corvoysier]
Bob: Could we be more explicit that audio abd video should support playback of content delivered using ABR
15:49:27 [David_Corvoysier]
Clarke: Will take Bob's suggested wording offline
15:50:52 [David_Corvoysier]
Clarke: About parameters, the clarification that i am trying to make is that we don't limit the number of parameters that can be used, but instead specify a minimum set
15:51:28 [David_Corvoysier]
Clarke: A pretty good starting place here !
15:52:13 [David_Corvoysier]
Clarke: Please take a look at this doc next week, and also on the EC doc (hope the changes will be pushed this time)
15:52:24 [kaz]
q?
15:52:30 [David_Corvoysier]
Clarke: AOB ? Not ?
15:52:36 [Zakim]
-Mark_Vickers
15:52:37 [Zakim]
-joesteele
15:52:38 [Zakim]
-Clarke
15:52:39 [Zakim]
-Juhani
15:52:39 [Zakim]
-Mark_Watson
15:52:39 [Zakim]
-glenn
15:52:41 [Zakim]
-Franck
15:52:41 [Zakim]
-Aaron_Colwell
15:52:43 [Zakim]
-Bob_Lund
15:52:43 [David_Corvoysier]
Meeting adjourned
15:52:44 [Zakim]
-John_Simmons
15:52:47 [Clarke]
Thanks, David
15:52:48 [Zakim]
-Kazuyuki
15:52:58 [Zakim]
-Philipp
15:53:18 [kaz]
Present: Aaron_Colwell, Kazuyuki, joesteele, Clarke, glenn, Niklas_Schmücker, Juhani, Bob_Lund, John_Simmons, David_Corvoysier, Mark_Vickers, Mark_Watson, Franck, Philipp
15:53:24 [Clarke]
Clarke has left #webtv
15:53:30 [kaz]
Meeting: Media Pipeline Task Force call
15:53:35 [kaz]
Chair: Clarke
15:53:45 [kaz]
Scribe: David_Corvoysier
15:54:13 [Zakim]
-David_Corvoysier
15:54:20 [kaz]
[ adjourned ]
15:54:25 [kaz]
rrsagent, make log public
15:54:31 [kaz]
rrsagent, draft minutes
15:54:31 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/04/19-webtv-minutes.html kaz
15:54:59 [kaz]
q-
15:55:28 [kaz]
rrsagent, draft minutes
15:55:28 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/04/19-webtv-minutes.html kaz
15:55:43 [kaz]
zakim, who is here?
15:55:43 [Zakim]
On the phone I see Niklas_Schmücker
15:55:44 [Zakim]
On IRC I see Mark_Vickers, johnsim, David_Corvoysier, nisc, joesteele, RRSAgent, Zakim, kaz, glenn, masao, timeless, trackbot
15:55:57 [joesteele]
joesteele has left #webtv
15:55:59 [kaz]
rrsagent, stop