See also: IRC log
<trackbot> Date: 19 April 2012
Hotel Allandale
7685 Northcross Drive, Austin, TX 7875
512-452-9391
use group name TSBVI-UAAG
$139.00 suite hotel
<jeanne> anyone looking for support in attending F2F contact jeanne this week.
strategies for finishing the document (levels, sub documents, etc.)
id the scope of features, stop adding SC, anything thing new goes into UAAG next.
create a wiki to capture ideas
Jeanne will look at ways to manage this information.
<jeanne> ACTION: jeanne to set up tracker document for UAAG.next issues and the syntax to add it to trackbot. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2012/04/19-ua-minutes.html#action01]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-724 - Set up tracker document for UAAG.next issues and the syntax to add it to trackbot. [on Jeanne F Spellman - due 2012-04-26].
all will have responsibility to call any SC a UAAG.next item
action-712
back and forth. ATAG has 'let the UA repair missing information'.
<Jan> http://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/2012/ED-UAAG20-20120411/#gl-missing-alt
proposal:
1.2.1 Support Repair by Assistive Technologies: If text alternatives for non-text content are missing or empty then both of the following are true: (Level A)
(a) the user agent does not attempt to repair the text alternatives with text values that would also be available to assistive technologies.
(b) the user agent makes metadata related to the non-text content available through the platform accessibility architecture.
Note: Examples of text values that are also available to user agents, and should be avoided, include the filename, the file format, and generic phrases (e.g. "image").
Ed. See http://www.w3.org/TR/ATAG20/#sc_b233
Ed. This leaves open UAs generating captions for instance.
1.2.2 Repair Missing Structure: The user can specify whether or not the user agent should attempt to predict the following relationships from author-specified presentation attributes (i.e. position and appearance): (Level AAA)
(a) Labels
(b) Headers
headers = H1-6, TH
<Jan> (b) Headers (i.e. heading markup, table headers)
gl: 1.2.2 UA predict. what should it do once predicted?
jr: it is repair, so it should do
something.
... UA already do lots of repair, fixing nesting, unclosed,
non-valid, poorly formed documents.
... this is a AAA
gl: if it sees bold characters with : then it would be an inline heading 5
jr: yes, user can specify
gl: sounds reasonable
<jeanne> insert code with improved semantics
<Jan> 1.2.2 Repair Missing Structure: The user can specify whether or not the user agent should attempt to adjust the structural markup from author-specified presentation attributes (i.e. position and appearance): (Level AAA)
<Jan> 1.2.2 Repair Missing Structure: The user can specify whether or not the user agent should attempt to insert the following types of structural markup on the basis of author-specified presentation attributes (i.e. position and appearance): (Level AAA)
gl: will need intent and
examples.
... are there other examples that should fall into this
category
... image with text beneath it, UA creates a caption
jr: image caption doesn't seem to
fall in this.
... paragraphs with *, this would be all things that trigger an
accessibility flag.
gl: note in the intent...UAs are encouraged to repair more.
jr: don't want to get too far afield
<Jan> ACTION: JR to Write IER for the new "1.2.2 Repair Missing Structure" [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2012/04/19-ua-minutes.html#action02]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-725 - Write IER for the new "1.2.2 Repair Missing Structure" [on Jan Richards - due 2012-04-26].
Resolution: add 1.2.2 Repair Missing Structure: The user can specify whether or not the user agent should attempt to insert the following types of structural markup on the basis of author-specified presentation attributes (i.e. position and appearance): (Level AAA)
(a) Labels
(b) Headers (i.e. heading markup, table headers)
gl: question about 1.2.1
does this prohibit the UA from showing the filename.
jr: it would be prohibited from
moving the file name to the @alt
... it would be up to AT to present to the user
... this would not change the DOM
gl: want the UA to be able
present information to the user
... if images off, and no @alt, then UA could provide
filename.
... unsure about (b) the user agent makes metadata related to
the non-text content available through the platform
accessibility architecture.
jr: questions also. this is from
Simon.
... this is information that is embedded within the media.
gl: this info is not in the DOM
or html attributes. only exists in attributes within the
image.
... if there is no standard field in A11y API to provide this
information.
jr: perhaps just say programmatic ally available and let the UA AT negotiate
<Jan> (b) the user agent makes metadata related to the non-text content available programmatically (and not via fields reserved for text alternatives).
gl: want to leave out platform a!!y architecture.
<jeanne> +1
+1
<Greg> So UA would comply if it exposes exactly one piece of metadata, and it can be useless one?
jr: it could. it is a low bar. use the IER to explain more.
<scribe> scribe: jallan
jr: we are offloading image processing to the AT. so they would have to process all images.
1.2.1 Support Repair by Assistive Technologies: If text alternatives for non-text content are missing or empty then both of the following are true: (Level A)
(a) the user agent does not attempt to repair the text alternatives with text values that would also be available to assistive technologies.
(b) the user agent makes metadata related to the non-text content available programmatically (and not via fields reserved for text alternatives).
<Greg> I also think the wording should clarify that "metadata" does not mean *all* metadata, which would be impossible using platform accessibility API.
<Greg> Although that would probably be phrased "*the* metadata" or "*all* metadata".
ja: ***flag*** for call out when publishing the draft
resolution: 1.2.1 Support Repair by Assistive Technologies: If text alternatives for non-text content are missing or empty then both of the following are true: (Level A)
(a) the user agent does not attempt to repair the text alternatives with text values that would also be available to assistive technologies.
(b) the user agent makes metadata related to the non-text content available programmatically (and not via fields reserved for text alternatives).
all: discussion of metadata
<Jan> ACTION: JR to Write IER for the new "1.2.1 Support Repair by Assistive Technologies" [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2012/04/19-ua-minutes.html#action03]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-726 - Write IER for the new "1.2.1 Support Repair by Assistive Technologies" [on Jan Richards - due 2012-04-26].
ja: this would be a good extension, to pull out all metadata related to an images
close Action-712
<trackbot> ACTION-712 Write an SC to substitute for 1.2.1 and 1.2.2 that gives the user the ability to request the meta data available for an object, closed
item 6 may already be done.
For UAWG Action-690 proposals for Zooming 1.8.x http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2012AprJun/0027.html
<Jan> 1.8.3 Resize Viewport: The user can make viewports resizable, within the limits of the display, overriding any values specified by the author. (Level A) ## DONE TPAC
1.8.X: Zoom: The user can rescale content within graphical viewports such that (Level A):
(a) Lower rescale bound: The lower rescale bound is at least 10% or at least one dimension of the content can fit into the viewport without scrollbars. For text content, the language's text directionality will determine the dimension (e.g., horizontally oriented text should be rescaled such that horizontal scrollbars are not required).
(b) Upper rescale bound: At least 1000%.
jr: you can make text smaller down to 10% of size or until one scroll bar not required.
gl: user should be able to scale
between 10 and 1000%, or beable to fit with in the hor. or
vert. bound of the viewport
... need example
jr: making text really small, its
about getting a view of the layout.
... a word document, only want to scroll vertically.
gl: you have a long document, huge 25 feet wide, have to do 10% or 1 %
jr: this is an 'or' so 10%
... there may be formats where they know the bounding limits of
the document.
gl: I understand the concept, but the wording seems complicated.
jr: only want to scale in 1 dimension, and background image comes into play.
gl: does any UA do 10 to 1000?
jr: word does 10 to 500
gl: how do you calculate, no current UI for specific numbers
ja: Opera has a numerical scale
<Greg> Is there any real world example where all the reading direction thing would matter? Or in reality would this just be 10-1000%?
<Greg> That is, a case where a UA would know the maximum width of a given file format and thus hard-code to it?
ja: WCAG only has to 200%, are we extending it
<Greg> I guess I lean towards the simpler 10-1000% unless we can come up with an example where the more complex case would apply.
jr and js and ja don't think 200% is big enough.
<Greg> And is providing 1000% useful if the UA doesn't provide any UI to get that magnification other than pressing a Zoom command 700 times?
jr: 10% or scale until only 1
scroll bar is required
... it the UA know the dimension of the object you are looking
at, you can shrink to 10% or its height or width fit in the
viewport
<Greg> Maybe a simpler way of saying it would be something along the lines of (a) if the file format can handle differing sizes, then 10-1000%, or (b) if the size is fixed, small enough to fit in the viewport for one dimension...
jr: ok
jan to rewrite 1.8.x
<Jan> JR will take 690 again...working with Greg's wording
1.8.Y: Reflowing Zoom: The user can request that when content within a graphical viewport is rescaled, reflowable content is reflowed such that one dimension of the content can fit into the viewport without scrollbars (e.g., horizontally oriented text should be rescaled such that horizontal scrollbars are not required). (Level AA)
Note: Limits to reflow include multi-media objects, words without spaces, and where the author prohibits wrapping.
ja: should just be 'media objects'
gl: note defines non-reflowable content
<Jan> Note: Exceptions to reflowable content include media objects, words without spaces, and where the author prohibits wrapping.
gl: questions limits of
non-breaking content
... don't want to be prescriptive
jr: put in the examples, of
non-breaking content. row of xxxxxx, etc, long URL, should be
up to the UA how to break long text
... how far does this go? flash content
<Greg> User should have ability to force wrapping overriding author settings that prohibit wrapping. Yes, some things may break, just like they may break when colors are overridden, but the user should be allowed to try.
ja: canvas is a non-reflowable object.
gl: user should be allowed to override nowrap (by author)
<Greg> Distinction between cases where the barrier to wrapping is technological (e.g. canvas, image, audio) vs. author preference (e.g. nowrap).
<Greg> I'd handle that in definition of reflowable content?
jr: layout engines have own rules, and may nativelively prohibit reflow.
<Greg> Distinction between cases where the barrier to wrapping is technological (e.g. canvas, image, audio) vs. author preference (e.g. text with nowrap or pre), vs. things like long words with no spaces which might be left up to user agent/user?
need a definition of reflow
<Greg> Basically, horizontal scrolling (in horizontal languages) is an accessibility problem, and all things should address how the user can avoid that problem.
gr will work on definition of reflowable. gr mentions e-pub has this concept may have a def.
rrsagent make minutes
This is scribe.perl Revision: 1.136 of Date: 2011/05/12 12:01:43 Check for newer version at http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/ Guessing input format: RRSAgent_Text_Format (score 1.00) Succeeded: s/enought/enough/ Succeeded: s/defintioon/definition/ Succeeded: s/relowable/reflowable/ Found Scribe: jallan Inferring ScribeNick: JAllan Default Present: Jim_Allan, Jeanne, Greg_Lowney, Jan, Kim_Patch Present: Jim_Allan Jeanne Greg_Lowney Jan Kim_Patch Regrets: Kelly wayne Found Date: 19 Apr 2012 Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2012/04/19-ua-minutes.html People with action items: jeanne jr[End of scribe.perl diagnostic output]