IRC log of xproc on 2012-04-12

Timestamps are in UTC.

13:56:47 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #xproc
13:56:47 [RRSAgent]
logging to
13:56:51 [Zakim]
Zakim has joined #xproc
13:56:56 [Norm]
zakim, this will be xproc
13:56:56 [Zakim]
ok, Norm; I see XML_PMWG()10:00AM scheduled to start in 4 minutes
13:57:03 [Norm]
rrsagent, set logs world-visible
13:57:03 [Norm]
Meeting: XML Processing Model WG
13:57:03 [Norm]
Date: 12 April 2012
13:57:03 [Norm]
13:57:03 [Norm]
Meeting: 212
13:57:05 [Norm]
Chair: Norm
13:57:06 [Norm]
Scribe: Norm
13:57:08 [Norm]
ScribeNick: Norm
13:58:18 [Norm]
zakim, passcode?
13:58:18 [Zakim]
the conference code is 97762 (tel:+1.617.761.6200, Norm
13:58:42 [Zakim]
XML_PMWG()10:00AM has now started
13:58:49 [Zakim]
13:59:49 [Zakim]
13:59:59 [Norm]
zakim, ??P12 is jfuller
13:59:59 [Zakim]
+jfuller; got it
14:00:25 [Vojtech]
Vojtech has joined #xproc
14:01:51 [alexmilowski]
alexmilowski has joined #xproc
14:02:07 [Zakim]
14:02:45 [Zakim]
14:03:22 [Zakim]
14:03:27 [Vojtech]
zakim, jeroen is me
14:03:27 [Zakim]
+Vojtech; got it
14:03:35 [Norm]
Present: Norm, Jim, Alex, Murray, Vojtech
14:03:50 [ht]
ht has joined #xproc
14:04:15 [Norm]
zakim, alexmilowski has Veronika
14:04:15 [Zakim]
sorry, Norm, I do not recognize a party named 'alexmilowski'
14:04:23 [Norm]
zakim, alex_milowski has Veronika
14:04:23 [Zakim]
sorry, Norm, I do not recognize a party named 'alex_milowski'
14:04:28 [Norm]
zakim, alex_milows has Veronika
14:04:29 [Zakim]
+Veronika; got it
14:05:45 [Zakim]
14:06:11 [Norm]
Present: Norm, Jim, Alex, Murray, Vojtech, Henry
14:06:28 [Norm]
Topic: Accept this agenda?
14:06:28 [Norm]
14:06:33 [Norm]
14:06:41 [Norm]
Topic: Accept minutes from the previous meeting?
14:06:41 [Norm]
14:07:13 [Norm]
14:07:18 [Norm]
Topic: Next meeting: telcon, 19 April 2012
14:07:29 [Norm]
No regrets heard
14:07:38 [Norm]
Topic: Review of open actions
14:07:57 [jfuller]
14:08:04 [Norm]
Jim, I've done some work on zip/unzip but it's still ongoing.
14:08:27 [Norm]
Norm: Thanks, Jim. Send a pointer when it's ready for review.
14:08:49 [Norm]
Norm reports that Liam has sent the charter to W3C management.
14:09:09 [Norm]
Norm: Remaining actions are continued.
14:09:22 [Norm]
Topic: Review of the draft requirements document
14:10:34 [Norm]
Murray: I've been working on it. The draft is at the point now where what we need most is to determine if it's going in the right direction.
14:10:58 [Norm]
...The document as it stands now, the introduction is quite minimal.
14:11:22 [Norm]
...I've left sections 2-5 pretty much intact. I've added comments wrt the standard names for component inventory.
14:11:33 [Norm]
...I've drawn a list of all the specs from XProc 1.0 and dropped them into this document.
14:11:47 [Norm]
...Verified that all the items in 4.5 were covered at least to some extent.
14:11:58 [Norm]
...Then went on to list a bunch of specs that weren't in the requirements list but have been satisified.
14:12:14 [Norm]
...And then for the rest of the sections, there's very little commentary beyond a few editorial notes.
14:12:42 [Norm]
...In Appendix A, I've added references to all the specs that I think might be relevant.
14:13:22 [Norm]
...The collective input that I got out of the wiki and the mailing list and all the other sources, I've been trying to collate.
14:13:36 [Norm]
...Appendixes D through F reflect those changes.
14:13:44 [Norm]
...I added the list of categorized steps that Alex published a while ago.
14:14:05 [Norm]
...Hopefully it's becoming complete and useful on it's own.
14:14:31 [Norm]
Alex: Going through section 5, there are a number of use cases which I would say we're able to satisfy if we stretch the definition of "satisfy"
14:14:43 [Norm]
...I can write a pipeline that satisfies the use case with some fabricated extension step.
14:15:09 [Norm]
...5.10 for example, could be satisified if we had a digital signature step.
14:15:24 [Norm]
...A bunch of them are like that, they require steps that we don't have in our vocabulary.
14:16:04 [Norm]
Alex: In other words, some we can write out and some require steps that we don't have. And some require interpretation of the use case.
14:17:12 [Norm]
Norm: I think if we can satisfy a use case with a new step, we should collect up those steps.
14:17:29 [Norm]
Jim: So you're looking for a definition of "satisfaction".
14:17:49 [Norm]
...For example, 5.9, run a custom program. We have an optional p:exec step, does that satisfy it? I think it does.
14:18:29 [Norm]
Alex: I think of grouping these things into three categories: we can write a pipeline that satisfies the spirit of the use case, we could if we had a new atomic step, and we can't without making language changes.
14:19:32 [Norm]
...So 5.10, it's not clear how signing fits in, but 5.12, just requires any of a number of "store" steps.
14:20:01 [Norm]
Norm: I think starting with a three-bucket cut makes a lot of sense.
14:20:20 [Norm]
Jim: Would that be full, partial, and not?
14:20:25 [Norm]
Alex: I don't think it's partial.
14:21:47 [Norm]
Norm: I think we can say "use cases we can satisfy now, use cases we could satisfy with a new atomic step, and use cases we're not sure about."
14:22:05 [Norm]
Alex: We've given users the ability to define their own steps, so we might, but don't have to, write it for them.
14:22:27 [Norm]
Murray: So if we find a case like that, we add a new step to Appendix E and that informs our process.
14:22:39 [Norm]
...From my point of view, the use cases and requirements is fodder for the back section and we get there later.
14:22:54 [Norm]
Alex: I like the idea of grouping things into three categories and we can finesse the middle category name.
14:23:50 [Norm]
...Maybe we can just give them labels without worrying about the subtlety of the descriptions.
14:24:14 [Norm]
Jim: I'm happy to review them as well.
14:24:32 [Norm]
Alex: I personally would like to see us write the simple pipeline that demonstrates the solution for categories 1 and 2 at least.
14:24:59 [Norm]
Norm: I think that's consistent with what we said last week.
14:25:12 [Norm]
Alex: That will also help us decide if it's easy or not.
14:25:56 [Norm]
Norm: I think sending the solutions to the list is a good idea.
14:26:58 [Norm]
Norm: Murray, can you checkin what you've got done by next Tuesday so everyone has a couple of days to review it before the next meeting.
14:27:16 [Norm]
Murray: Certainly.
14:27:38 [Norm]
Alex: And I'll try to get it checked in.
14:28:16 [Norm]
Norm: I think the document is going in a good direction. Murray, are there any other questions you'd like answered before you continue?
14:28:20 [Norm]
Murray: Not that I can think of.
14:28:33 [Norm]
...Feedback on the use cases would be really great.
14:30:18 [Norm]
Norm: Any further comments?
14:30:26 [Norm]
Topic: Any other business?
14:30:31 [Norm]
None heard.
14:30:47 [Norm]
14:30:51 [Norm]
rrsagent, draft minues
14:30:51 [RRSAgent]
I'm logging. I don't understand 'draft minues', Norm. Try /msg RRSAgent help
14:30:52 [Zakim]
14:30:53 [Norm]
rrsagent, draft minutes
14:30:53 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate Norm
14:30:54 [Zakim]
14:30:56 [Zakim]
14:30:57 [Zakim]
14:30:57 [Zakim]
14:30:59 [Zakim]
14:30:59 [Zakim]
XML_PMWG()10:00AM has ended
14:30:59 [Zakim]
Attendees were Norm, jfuller, Murray, Vojtech, Veronika, ht
15:55:08 [Norm]
Norm has joined #xproc
16:28:30 [Zakim]
Zakim has left #xproc
16:36:15 [Liam]
norm, ping?
16:36:30 [Liam]
RRSAgent, bye
16:36:30 [RRSAgent]
I see no action items
16:36:31 [Norm]
scribing for xslt, right now, but ok