See also: IRC log
<trackbot> Date: 12 April 2012
action items)
one, we edited it)
<trackbot> Sorry, bad ACTION syntax
revised wording)
Kudos to ATAG for it's last Call!
Kim did a talk yesterday about keyboard shortcuts and voice navigation
beginning of thread: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2012AprJun/0008.html
discussion of changed wording and levels
Proposal: Delete 1.2.1 & 1.2.2
Add:
1.2.X Provide Available Information: If missing or empty alternative
content or associations are recognized, the user agent will notify the
user and provide a mechanism to relate all available metadata to the
user upon request.
merge the intents and examples from 1.2.1, 1.2.2
jr: word "associations", label
for form has association. but there are others. associations is
not precise enough
... metadata is too general
sh: not sure how to do it
jr: see appendix on Accessibility
information, could substitute for meta information.
... would help scope the information
... would replace associations and metadata with 'accessibility
information'
... does UAAG want to use the relative accessibility based on
WCAG.
js: depends on the use case. this
SC would be useful with photo sites. if we just to a11y
information, we would eliminate all of the photo metadata
available
... reason I liked the 'metadata' term
jr: another usecase
... the bigger case is the relationships, form field has visual
relation ship but not in code. they need more help discovering
those.
js: that is AI (it is difficult)
jr: interpage links need to be remediated.
js: don't want to do this a A.
its too hard
... simons proposal...don't try to repair, just give me the
metadata the user will make some sense out of it.
kf: how do you cap that.
... images will have resolution, time, date, geolocation, etc.
dozens more. how do we scope it.
sh: it is useful information, but may be overwhelming, perhaps terse and verbose setting
kf: what does wcag require.
ja: alt and longdesc
kf: how much of the photo image info is retained when converted.
js: UA provides what it has. and provides it on request
ja: do UAs already do this?
sh: the act of displaying the image, must process it and have access to the metadata
jr: but then there is surfacing it, need UI, structure data.
sh: yes its not critical, but it
is on user request only
... disagree, it is critical to get as much info as
necessary
ja: reviews discussion
sh: perhaps 2 sc, one for a11y info level A, and meta info at AA
js: but a11y info is not there,
that's the point.
... has proposal
<jeanne> 1.2.X Provide Available Information: If missing or empty alternative content or accessibility information are recognized, the user agent will notify the user and provide a mechanism to relate all available metadata to the user upon request.
<jeanne> 1.2.X Provide Available Information: If missing or empty accessibility information is recognized, the user agent will notify the user and provide a mechanism to relate all available metadata to the user upon request.
kf: +1
kim: +1
jr: empty?? so if an ignored image, the user can still get some info
sh: what if site is stupid and pastes in imagesorce as alt, then alt is not missing or empty. then UA doesn't have to do anything.
jr: missing, empty, or improper
js: how to define improper
sh: what about eliminate missing or empty, just give metadata
jr: +1, but bring it back to human language metadata, or something to scope it.
js: need to bind it to certain element, else its everything on the page.
sh: also on the focused element
<Jan> jr: non-text element well defined by WCAG
http://www.w3.org/TR/2012/WD-IMPLEMENTING-ATAG20-20120410/#def-Accessibility-Information
http://www.w3.org/TR/2012/WD-IMPLEMENTING-ATAG20-20120410/#prompting-types
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2012AprJun/0025.html
<scribe> scribe: jallan
<Jan> http://www.w3.org/TR/2012/WD-ATAG20-20120410/Overview.html#sc_b233
js: would this apply to keyboard shortcuts
jr: explains ATAG b233
this could be a resource for 1.2.x
sh: what about adding poorly repaired alternative
js: we don't want repair, we want alternatives
jr: UA of future could ocr image,
use databased images (OBI project from DIAGAM)
... keep 121 and 122, because they can be turned off, and add
simons for additional help
... user access metadata to discover.
js: don't like, we spent lots of time about not repairing information.
kf: without repair, how much effort will users go to to get information
sh: useful repair is so far out, thinks metadata is more important.
js: we wanted to eliminate stupid
repair.
... good with removing 121 and 122.
jr: then we must eliminate totally the repair. the entire point is the 'whether or not'.
js: how to reword to eliminate an sc.
jr: ATAG has concept...don't
repair unless special knowledge, then kick to AT to make
obvious repair.
... that special knowledge is the metadata.
js: filename is matadata, but we want to eliminate it.
sh: support wrapping in 1.2.3
repair association. as a AAA
... put 121 122 and 123 in to 1 sc. and the Metadata (new one
is A).
... other (conflated one) is AAA
<jeanne> action-712 assign to Jan
<Zakim> jeanne, you wanted to propose that "associations" become "accessibility information"
<jeanne> Resolved: Remove editor's note from 1.3.2
jr: seems like we talked about
this recently
... what is this adding to 1.3.1
kim: intents are very different
ja: 131 does not cover scripted elements.
sh: these are all about visually perceiveable. what about auditory highlighting?
kim: need to add 'visual highlighting' to 132
jr: general highlighting is
covered in 131
... we could get prescriptive and add auditory
ja: what about haptic
kp: do we have a parallel for what the audio highlighting should be?
js: perhaps add to UAAG-Next!
kim: kelly would this be useful
kf: not sure
sh: have audio style bold, italic (different audio, voices) what about links selections, etc
kp: what is the audio equivelent
<jeanne> How about "If the user agent uses visual, "
issue: if the user agent has an audio or tactile or xxx display then provide the following highlighting...related to 1.3.1,2,3
<trackbot> Created ISSUE-91 - If the user agent has an audio or tactile or xxx display then provide the following highlighting...related to 1.3.1,2,3 ; please complete additional details at http://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/tracker/issues/91/edit .
jr: this is a disconnect between
131 c and 133 a
... what if we remove 133a and let it focus on scripted
input.
kp: +1
ja: +1
jr: should 131 c be enabled input elements
<scribe> ACTION: kim to rewrite 133 to eliminate a) and make b the focus of it be b. need some rewording on the (e.g. ) perhaps eliminate. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2012/04/12-ua-minutes.html#action01]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-723 - Rewrite 133 to eliminate a) and make b the focus of it be b. need some rewording on the (e.g. ) perhaps eliminate. [on Kimberly Patch - due 2012-04-19].
jr: every element on a page could have an id, don't want to highlight everything
ja: javascript blackhole
... how is this related to tabindex=-1
the onclick or onkeypress are going away.
ja: should 133 be eliminated. because scripting is becomming more abstract, and only special case of onClick and onKeyPress
rrsagent make minutes
This is scribe.perl Revision: 1.136 of Date: 2011/05/12 12:01:43 Check for newer version at http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/ Guessing input format: RRSAgent_Text_Format (score 1.00) Succeeded: s/x=_1/x=-1/ Found Scribe: jallan Inferring ScribeNick: JAllan Default Present: [Microsoft], Jim_Allan, Jeanne, Jan, Kim_Patch, sharper Present: [Microsoft] Jim_Allan Jeanne Jan Kim_Patch sharper Regrets: greg Found Date: 12 Apr 2012 Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2012/04/12-ua-minutes.html People with action items: kim[End of scribe.perl diagnostic output]