13:02:00 RRSAgent has joined #dap 13:02:00 logging to http://www.w3.org/2012/04/11-dap-irc 13:02:02 RRSAgent, make logs world 13:02:02 Zakim has joined #dap 13:02:04 Zakim, this will be DAP 13:02:04 ok, trackbot; I see UW_DAP()10:00AM scheduled to start in 58 minutes 13:02:05 Meeting: Device APIs Working Group Teleconference 13:02:05 Date: 11 April 2012 13:05:43 Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2012Apr/0018.html 13:08:41 Chair: Robin_Berjon, Frederick_Hirsch 13:08:48 Present+ Robin_Berjon, Frederick_Hirsch 13:42:07 Scribe: Josh_Soref 13:45:31 darobin has joined #dap 13:49:36 fjh has joined #dap 13:51:47 richt has joined #dap 13:55:26 UW_DAP()10:00AM has now started 13:55:28 + +1.289.261.aaaa 13:56:12 Zakim, aaaa is me 13:56:12 +Josh_Soref; got it 13:58:38 Deep has joined #dap 13:58:49 +??P16 13:58:50 -??P16 13:58:50 +??P16 13:58:54 zakim, ??P16 13:58:54 I don't understand '??P16', fjh 13:59:00 zakim, ??P16 is me 13:59:00 +fjh; got it 13:59:04 Present+ Deepanshu_Gautam 13:59:24 RRSAgent, draft minutes 13:59:24 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/04/11-dap-minutes.html Josh_Soref 13:59:25 s/zakim, ??P16$// 13:59:42 RRSAgent, make logs public 14:00:12 spoussa has joined #dap 14:01:10 adrianba has joined #dap 14:01:16 dsr has joined #dap 14:01:31 +Dsr 14:01:44 Jungkee has joined #dap 14:01:58 Present+ Jungkee_Song 14:01:58 + +1.425.449.aabb 14:02:01 + +1.503.542.aacc 14:02:24 Zakim, who is making noise? 14:02:24 + +86255662aadd 14:02:35 Josh_Soref, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: +86255662aadd (18%), fjh (16%) 14:02:35 dtran has joined #dap 14:02:42 + +1.503.333.aaee 14:02:45 Present+ Dzung_Tran 14:02:53 aaee is me 14:02:59 s/aaee is me// 14:03:03 Zakim, aaee is dtran 14:03:03 +dtran; got it 14:03:06 Present+ Sakari_Poussa 14:03:14 Zakim, area code +1425 14:03:14 I don't understand 'area code +1425', Josh_Soref 14:03:19 Zakim, where is +1425 14:03:19 Josh_Soref, I do not see a party named 'where'. If you meant to ask a question you need to add '?' 14:03:21 Zakim, where is 1425 14:03:21 Josh_Soref, I do not see a party named 'where'. If you meant to ask a question you need to add '?' 14:03:24 Travis has joined #dap 14:03:30 Present+ dsr 14:03:34 zakim, who is here? 14:03:43 aaee is me 14:03:47 On the phone I see Josh_Soref, fjh, Dsr, +1.425.449.aabb, +1.503.542.aacc (muted), +86255662aadd, dtran 14:03:56 zakim, aaee is spoussa 14:04:00 Present+ Travis_Leithead 14:04:05 On IRC I see Travis, dtran, Jungkee, dsr, adrianba, spoussa, Deep, richt, fjh, darobin, Zakim, RRSAgent, hiroto, lgombos, ilkka, mounir, Josh_Soref, rektide, trackbot, dom 14:04:14 sorry, fjh, I do not recognize a party named 'aaee' 14:04:33 Zakim, dtran is really spoussa 14:04:34 AnssiK has joined #dap 14:04:37 +spoussa; got it 14:04:41 Zakim, aacc is dtran 14:04:44 +dtran; got it 14:04:46 +??P0 14:04:52 Zakim, ??P0 is me 14:04:52 +darobin; got it 14:04:55 Zakim, where is 1425 14:04:57 Josh_Soref, I do not see a party named 'where'. If you meant to ask a question you need to add '?' 14:04:59 darobin: are you guys going to speak about network information api? 14:05:01 Cathy has joined #dap 14:05:06 Zakim, where is 1425? 14:05:06 sorry, Josh_Soref, I do not understand your question 14:05:09 +??P2 14:05:09 Zakim, where is +1425? 14:05:11 North American dialing code 1.425 is Washington 14:05:13 zakim, ??P2 is me 14:05:16 +AnssiK; got it 14:05:23 Present+ Anssi_Kostiainen 14:05:28 +??P1 14:05:46 Zakim, ??P1 is Jungkee_Song 14:05:46 +Jungkee_Song; got it 14:05:48 Zakim, +1.425.449.aabb is Travis 14:05:48 +Travis; got it 14:06:45 darobin: will try to join then 14:07:09 q+ to note WebIntents slot on May 1 at 1:30pm-2:30pm California time at WebApps interim F2F is http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-webapps/2012AprJun/0124.html 14:07:25 please note WebIntents session at WebApps 14:07:26 Zakim, where is +86255? 14:07:26 country code 86 is China 14:07:31 + +1.781.266.aaff 14:07:38 zakim, aaff is me 14:07:38 +Cathy; got it 14:07:53 Zakim, aadd is Deepanshu_Gautam 14:07:53 +Deepanshu_Gautam; got it 14:08:00 Zakim, who is on the call? 14:08:00 On the phone I see Josh_Soref, fjh, Dsr, Travis, dtran (muted), Deepanshu_Gautam, spoussa, darobin (muted), AnssiK, Jungkee_Song, Cathy 14:08:28 Topic: Administrative 14:08:30 jorge_peraza has joined #dap 14:08:34 ack me 14:08:34 Josh_Soref, you wanted to note WebIntents slot on May 1 at 1:30pm-2:30pm California time at WebApps interim F2F is 14:08:36 ... http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-webapps/2012AprJun/0124.html 14:08:43 Topic: Minutes Approval 14:08:49 +[Microsoft] 14:08:52 F2F Minutes (v2) : http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-archive/2012Apr/att-0025/minutes-2012-03-20.html 14:08:52 known issues: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2012Apr/0012.html 14:08:53 4 April draft minutes: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2012Apr/att-0009/minutes-2012-04-04.html 14:08:55 fjh: we have face to face minutes as well as minutes from last week's call 14:09:01 zakim, [Microsoft] is me 14:09:01 +adrianba; got it 14:09:05 Clarke has joined #dap 14:09:06 ... the question is can we approve these or do we need more time? 14:09:11 ack darobin 14:09:12 darobin: i recon we can approve them 14:09:19 ... people have had a chance to look at the record 14:09:29 darobin: the french number is expected to work? 14:09:34 +??P3 14:09:35 ... i don't think Josh_Soref's changes are massive or modify what people have said 14:09:46 awesome... 14:09:54 +??P6 14:09:54 fjh: i think we need two resolutions 14:09:59 should be removed from the agenda... 14:10:06 zakim, ??P6 is me 14:10:06 +Clarke; got it 14:10:28 Josh_Soref: i'm missing a link from Claus's presentation 14:10:39 Present+ Clarke_Stevens 14:10:42 s/Claus/Claes/ 14:10:44 ... I wanted a correction for Wonsuk 14:11:22 Zakim, who is on the call? 14:11:22 On the phone I see Josh_Soref, fjh, Dsr, Travis, dtran (muted), Deepanshu_Gautam, spoussa, darobin (muted), AnssiK, Jungkee_Song, Cathy, adrianba, ??P3, Clarke 14:11:36 fjh: i don't think we're in a rush to approve them 14:11:44 Present + Jorge_Peraza 14:11:46 ... i think people are mostly fine with the minutes 14:12:06 fjh: Josh_Soref, why don't you clean them all up and we'll approve them next week 14:12:32 Getting on the call in a few minutes 14:12:32 richt has joined #dap 14:12:45 RESOLUTION: 4 April minutes are approved 14:12:56 fjh: it's only fair to let people see what they're approving 14:13:08 fjh: i'll send a message to Claes asking for the link 14:13:12 Topic: NFC discussion 14:13:15 Please take all NFC discussion to new mail list, see http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2012Apr/0014.html 14:13:35 fjh: if you're interested in that discussion and able to participate, then you should probably join 14:13:41 dsr: we could set up a CG for this 14:13:47 + +33.4.78.69.aagg 14:13:51 ... but it seemed simpler to set up a mailing list and a wiki 14:13:58 ... without a patent policy commitment 14:14:07 +[Microsoft] 14:14:11 ... after a minimal discussion we can work that into a CG or WG 14:14:15 ... with a charter... 14:14:24 Zakim, [Microsoft] is probably Travis 14:14:24 +Travis?; got it 14:14:36 Zakim, aagg is probably mounir 14:14:36 +mounir?; got it 14:14:54 Topic: F2F Meeting planning 14:15:14 fjh: there's two possible meetings coming up 14:15:32 ... possibly week of 9 july 14:15:46 darobin: we should have a WBS with a short decision time 14:15:46 q+ 14:15:49 ... on weeks in july 14:16:03 ... we have an offer to host from vodafone in Dusseldorf 14:16:10 ... they had originally looked into late June 14:16:18 ... but it'd be good to have a decision very soon 14:16:25 ... because we're running into the deadline 14:16:33 fjh: i don't know if Nokia could be able to host 14:16:38 ... i suspect it would be problematic 14:16:49 darobin: at some point, richt had suggested Oslo could be an option 14:16:55 fjh: that might be useful as well 14:16:58 ... it depends on the other offer 14:17:03 +??P25 14:17:04 ... what about TPAC 14:17:07 -??P3 14:17:13 ... I don't know which groups we want to overlap with or not 14:17:28 zakim, ??P25 is me 14:17:28 +richt; got it 14:17:33 darobin: historically, we've avoided overlapping at all costs with webapps 14:17:39 ... html5 is ok to overlap 14:17:41 Zakim, [Microsoft] is Jorge_Peraza 14:17:41 sorry, jorge_peraza, I do not recognize a party named '[Microsoft]' 14:17:51 q? 14:17:55 Zakim, Travis is really jorge_peraza 14:17:57 sorry, Josh_Soref, I do not recognize a party named 'Travis' 14:18:01 Zakim, Travis? is really jorge_peraza 14:18:01 +jorge_peraza; got it 14:18:15 ... we have more shared participation with webapps 14:18:23 darobin: i think we'll need to meet at TPAC 14:18:35 ... if all goes according to plan, we'll have enough progress to justify meeting 14:18:36 ack deep 14:18:54 fjh: and we need to do Intents work which justifies the July F2F 14:19:04 darobin: is XML Security meeting at TPAC? 14:19:10 fjh: no, we're just doing list work 14:19:24 fjh: dsr, you have a problem with Friday at TPAC? 14:19:25 dsr: yes 14:19:32 fjh: anyone else have thoughts/comments? 14:19:41 darobin: should i set up a form? 14:20:05 Deep: i just want to add that the week of 9 july will conflict with an OMA meeting 14:20:12 ... so perhaps we could do the week following 14:20:16 darobin: that's useful information 14:20:27 ... we do try to avoid clashing, but sometimes there's no alternative 14:20:42 fjh: we could put the week of the 9th and the week of the 16th into the questionaire 14:20:50 ... are we doing 2 or 3 days? 14:20:58 darobin: i think it makes sense to do 2 1/2 maybe 3 days 14:21:02 fjh: i'd suggest midweek 14:21:14 darobin: people tend to prefer traveling on weekdays 14:21:32 fjh: for me, it would be best if it were Wednesday, Thursday, Friday 14:21:34 prefer wed-fri 14:21:41 agenda+ Formal request to advance battery status/vibration to CR? 14:21:43 darobin: I don't have a big problem 14:21:51 Zakim, mute Deep 14:21:51 Deepanshu_Gautam should now be muted 14:22:03 fjh: number of people should be 15-20 14:22:11 ... for TPAC 14:22:21 ... i was thinking about the TPAC questionaire 14:22:25 Topic: Sensor API 14:22:35 Updated draft with discovery removed - http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/dap/raw-file/tip/sensor-api/Overview.html (Dzung Tran) 14:22:35 Sensor wiki for issue review, please update: http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/wiki/Sensor_Issues 14:22:59 s/15-20/50-60 [based on past experience]/ 14:23:14 fjh: we got comments from marcos 14:23:29 ... i don't think there's anything we can do on the call 14:23:43 Topic: Network Information API 14:23:53 fjh: i'm not sure what to do next 14:24:11 Zakim, who is on the call? 14:24:11 On the phone I see Josh_Soref, fjh, Dsr, Travis, dtran (muted), Deepanshu_Gautam (muted), spoussa, darobin (muted), AnssiK, Jungkee_Song, Cathy, adrianba, Clarke, mounir?, 14:24:15 ... jorge_peraza, richt 14:24:31 Zakim, mute dsr 14:24:31 Dsr should now be muted 14:24:50 fjh: AnssiK, do you have thoughts about next steps? 14:24:53 AnssiK: about energy? 14:25:07 fjh: yes 14:25:14 AnssiK: i don't consider myself an expert on that 14:25:21 Josh_Soref: is it possible to punt to v2? 14:25:32 Zakim, Travis is really jorge_peraza 14:25:32 +jorge_peraza; got it 14:25:38 Zakim, who is on the call 14:25:38 I don't understand 'who is on the call', Josh_Soref 14:25:39 Zakim, who is on the call? 14:25:39 On the phone I see Josh_Soref, fjh, Dsr (muted), jorge_peraza.a, dtran (muted), Deepanshu_Gautam (muted), spoussa, darobin (muted), AnssiK, Jungkee_Song, Cathy, adrianba, Clarke, 14:25:43 ... mounir?, jorge_peraza, richt 14:26:07 Zakim, jorge_peraza.a is really Travis 14:26:07 +Travis; got it 14:26:15 Bryan for next step on network information discussion of last week 14:26:59 ack dsr 14:27:00 Zakim, next agendum 14:27:00 agendum 1. "Formal request to advance battery status/vibration to CR?" taken up [from dsr] 14:27:24 i/agenum 1/Topic: Battery + Vibration 14:27:42 dsr: i had an action to schedule a call 14:27:47 ... are we ready? 14:27:55 fjh: AnssiK, did we have an update for vibration? 14:28:01 fjh: i thought we were good to go for both 14:28:07 commit log: http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/2009/dap/vibration/Overview.html 14:28:21 ... i remember we had a bit of post decision comments/discussion 14:28:34 AnssiK: we removed the exception items 14:28:39 fjh: but that was old 14:28:48 ... i think we're good to go 14:29:20 dsr: did we have a RESOLUTION? 14:29:27 fjh: I believe we did, but i'd have to find it 14:29:30 ... we could do two now 14:29:54 proposed RESOLUTION: Bring Battery API to CR with no features at risk and exit criteria of two interoperable implementations of all features 14:30:28 darobin: there's a minimum bar to give people time to implement 14:30:34 ... it's the reverse of the LC criteria 14:30:37 proposed RESOLUTION: Bring Battery API to CR with no features at risk and exit criteria of two interoperable implementations of all features and not exiting CR before July 1 14:30:39 ... to give people time to comment 14:30:52 ... we don't need to make it long because we already have implementations 14:31:01 fjh: is July 1st ok? 14:31:05 ... i want it before the F2F 14:31:08 proposed RESOLUTION: Bring Vibration API to CR with no features at risk and exit criteria of two interoperable implementations of all features and not exiting CR before July 1 14:31:09 darobin: sounds reasonable 14:31:14 ... we need existing implementations 14:31:24 ... and they need to pass the test suite 14:31:28 +1 14:31:30 +1 14:31:37 RESOLUTION: Bring Battery API to CR with no features at risk and exit criteria of two interoperable implementations of all features and not exiting CR before July 1 14:31:42 RESOLUTION: Bring Vibration API to CR with no features at risk and exit criteria of two interoperable implementations of all features and not exiting CR before July 1 14:32:06 RRSAgent, draft minutes 14:32:06 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/04/11-dap-minutes.html Josh_Soref 14:32:14 fjh: I'm going to be away next week 14:32:25 dsr: in that case, i'll liase with darobin on the official request 14:32:33 Topic: Aciton review 14:32:37 http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/actions/open 14:32:38 s/Aciton/Action/ 14:33:20 fjh: we were kind and didn't do this at the F2F 14:33:21 +1 14:33:38 ... i think it'd be nice if people could look through their own items 14:33:51 fjh: Travis: you have one for Network Information, i think it's done 14:33:56 ACTION-474? 14:33:56 ACTION-474 -- Travis Leithead to make a proposal for Network Information API -- due 2011-11-11 -- OPEN 14:33:56 http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/actions/474 14:34:06 Josh_Soref: I thought that was getting feedback from Microsoft Teams 14:34:13 ... and I think it's still worth doing 14:34:19 fjh: Josh_Soref: you have a bunch 14:34:28 fjh: richt: you have an action to consider 14:34:29 ACTION-513? 14:34:29 ACTION-513 -- Richard Tibbett to consider updating Contacts specification to add WebIntents section -- due 2012-03-27 -- OPEN 14:34:29 http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/actions/513 14:34:53 richt: i don't remember that action 14:34:58 ACTION-483? 14:34:58 ACTION-483 -- Josh Soref to send proposal to list for how Contacts will move forward -- due 2011-11-11 -- OPEN 14:34:58 http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/actions/483 14:35:10 ... i'm thinking about it 14:35:27 darobin: i don't think that matches my recollection of what the action should be 14:35:40 ... i think this was an action to rewrite Contacts as an Intent 14:35:44 ACTION-482? 14:35:44 ACTION-482 -- Josh Soref to contacts find() may be replaced with Intents -- due 2011-11-11 -- OPEN 14:35:44 http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/actions/482 14:35:48 +1 to darobin interpretation 14:35:48 ... it's related to several actions that Josh_Soref has 14:35:56 + +1.978.944.aahh 14:36:00 ... i believe that Josh_Soref worked with greg on a proposal 14:36:09 Josh_Soref: that's right... 14:36:32 ... i'll share it to richt 14:37:05 ... and i'll try to be happy with it and then share it out to the list 14:37:09 richt: that'd be great 14:37:21 darobin: Josh_Soref, that'll clear up a bunch of your actions 14:37:38 ACTION-528? 14:37:38 ACTION-528 -- Richard Tibbett to provide more use cases. -- due 2012-03-29 -- OPEN 14:37:38 http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/actions/528 14:37:59 note that there were a number of actions on James and Greg in the F2F minutes, prefixed by AI. 14:38:04 there's also: 14:38:07 ACTION-527? 14:38:07 ACTION-527 -- Frederick Hirsch to send emial to other WG li -- due 2012-03-29 -- OPEN 14:38:07 http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/actions/527 14:38:41 ACTION-532? 14:38:41 ACTION-532 -- Dave Raggett to collect use cases for qrcodes in web context -- due 2012-03-29 -- OPEN 14:38:41 http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/actions/532 14:38:45 what am I supposed to be providing more use cases for?? (ACTION-528) 14:38:54 darobin: the QR code action is related to rechartering 14:39:07 ... maybe there's something useful in QR space that could be added to the charter 14:39:22 ACTION-523? 14:39:22 ACTION-523 -- Anssi Kostiainen to work on test cases for battery and vibration -- due 2012-03-28 -- OPEN 14:39:22 http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/actions/523 14:39:33 -mounir? 14:40:18 darobin: i think this was coremob stuff 14:40:28 ... don't spend much time on it 14:40:35 ... a lot of it is going to be dropped anyway 14:40:40 ... most of it is feature testing 14:40:43 ... skeleton testing 14:40:46 ... not actual testing 14:40:55 AnssiK: i noticed that 14:41:02 darobin: we'll have to build our own tests 14:41:14 ... since you and i have action items, we should coordinate 14:41:19 AnssiK: webkit has tests 14:41:42 ... there's an ongoing effort to make the layout test work with the test harness 14:41:46 fyi, I've closed "ACTION-528: Provide more use cases" on me since I can't work out what the action relates to. 14:41:52 ... i'd like to avoid extra work 14:42:06 [last I checked Mozilla didn't have much in the way of battery tests] 14:42:30 AnssiK: i assume the browser vendors have their own test suites 14:42:32 darobin: yes 14:42:42 ... a lot of the tests rely on features of their own browser 14:42:55 ... e.g. mozilla relies on features of ecmascript not implemented elsewhere 14:43:03 ... often they can be easily adapted 14:43:11 ... for vibration, we have some tests, but we need more 14:43:21 ... but they're not easy to write as they require user interaction 14:43:29 ... i'd start with the same framework/setup as battery 14:43:34 ... you can copy it over 14:43:41 AnssiK: do we have any tool for functional testing? 14:44:20 darobin: you can use testmonkey 14:45:55 ACTION-516? 14:45:56 ACTION-516 -- Josh Soref to propose Security Considerations section on SSL for Intents sepc -- due 2012-03-27 -- OPEN 14:45:56 http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/actions/516 14:45:57 AnssiK: maybe we can move this to the list 14:46:38 fjh: Josh_Soref, since there's a meeting soon, it'd probably be good if you sent an item on that one 14:46:51 Josh_Soref: yeah, i need to review the entire spec 14:46:54 ... soon 14:47:18 Zakim, who is making noise? 14:47:28 Josh_Soref, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: darobin (30%), fjh (69%) 14:47:45 Topic: AoB 14:47:50 fjh: regrets for next week 14:47:57 RRSAgent, draft minutes 14:47:57 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/04/11-dap-minutes.html Josh_Soref 14:48:06 -AnssiK 14:48:12 -spoussa 14:48:13 -dtran 14:48:13 -darobin 14:48:13 fjh: Josh_Soref, you'll send out a new copy of the F2F minutes, making it clear it's the final version 14:48:14 -Deepanshu_Gautam 14:48:14 -Travis 14:48:15 -fjh 14:48:16 -Cathy 14:48:17 -Clarke 14:48:18 -adrianba 14:48:21 -Jungkee_Song 14:48:22 s|s/zakim, ??P16$//|| 14:48:22 -jorge_peraza 14:48:24 fyi again. updated ACTION-528 and re-opened it. 14:48:28 s|aaee is me|| 14:48:33 -Dsr 14:48:35 s|darobin: are you guys going to speak about network information api?| 14:48:37 -richt 14:48:47 s|darobin: will try to join then|| 14:49:06 RRSAgent, draft minutes 14:49:06 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/04/11-dap-minutes.html Josh_Soref 14:49:32 s|darobin: the french number is expected to work?|| 14:49:43 s|awesome...|| 14:50:17 Josh_Soref: not really (for both) 14:50:26 s|Getting on the call in a few minutes|| 14:50:33