16:00:38 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #html-techs-tf
16:00:38 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2012/04/09-html-techs-tf-irc
16:00:45 <jamesn> zakim, this will be 9224
16:00:45 <Zakim> ok, jamesn; I see WAI_HTML TT()11:30AM scheduled to start 30 minutes ago
16:01:31 <jamesn> zakim, this is 9224
16:01:31 <Zakim> ok, jamesn; that matches WAI_HTML TT()11:30AM
16:01:39 <jamesn> zakim, who is on the phone?
16:01:39 <Zakim> On the phone I see James_Nurthen
16:02:16 <jamesn> meeting: HTML Techniques Task Force
16:02:23 <jamesn> chair: James_Nurthen
16:03:08 <jamesn> agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-gl/2012AprJun/0008.html
16:03:33 <jamesn> jamesn has changed the topic to: Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-gl/2012AprJun/0008.html (jamesn)
16:04:03 <Zakim> +??P15
16:04:22 <jamesn> zakim, P15 is Loretta
16:04:22 <Zakim> sorry, jamesn, I do not recognize a party named 'P15'
16:04:31 <jamesn> zakim, ??P15 is Loretta
16:04:31 <Zakim> +Loretta; got it
16:04:33 <Loretta> Loretta has joined #html-techs-tf
16:05:46 <Zakim> + +1.217.244.aaaa
16:05:51 <marcjohlic> marcjohlic has joined #html-techs-tf
16:06:03 <jamesn> regrets+ Bruce_Bailey Joshue_O_Connor
16:06:15 <Zakim> +Marc_Johlic
16:06:17 <Zakim> +Cooper
16:06:32 <jamesn> zakim, aaaa is Jon_Gunderson
16:06:32 <Zakim> +Jon_Gunderson; got it
16:07:11 <MichaelC> rrsagent, make log world
16:07:28 <jamesn> rrsagent, make minutes
16:07:28 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/04/09-html-techs-tf-minutes.html jamesn
16:08:10 <jongund> scribe: Jon
16:08:18 <MichaelC> scribeNick: jongund
16:08:22 <jongund> zakim, scribe: jon
16:08:22 <Zakim> I don't understand 'scribe: jon', jongund
16:08:52 <jongund> JN: There were two items on the survey, and the people are not here who proposed them
16:09:03 <jongund> JN: We could send the minutes to them
16:09:19 <jongund> TOPIC: 332
16:09:46 <jongund> LG: Maybe it is fine, but it could be a topic of discussion
16:10:06 <jongund> LG: There is no way to find out the original placeholder
16:10:17 <jongund> JN: AT could do that and maybe a plug-in
16:10:34 <jongund> JN: I see your concern, whether it is correct or not
16:10:50 <jongund> LG: Clearly meets the spirit when it is there
16:11:03 <jongund> JN: Does WCAG require the label must be visible?
16:11:10 <jongund> LG: Not directly
16:11:42 <jongund> LG: This is definitely 3.3.2
16:11:52 <jongund> JN: This is not a 3.3.1
16:12:16 <jongund> LG: You still need a label for a screen reader, maybe it is a 3.3.5 technqiue
16:13:17 <jongund> LG: It seems more like 332
16:13:38 <jongund> LG: This type of example is in 3.3.2 techniques
16:14:01 <jongund> JN: It should always be in combination with a label
16:14:16 <jongund> JN: Provide descriptive labels and one of the following
16:16:14 <jongund> JN: Are you happy with your concerns of the place holder label disappearing?
16:16:19 <jongund> LG: yes
16:17:51 <jongund> JN: JG: I am not sure
16:18:30 <jongund> JG: I could try testing it
16:19:58 <jamesn> http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/html-api-map/raw-file/tip/Overview.html
16:22:05 <jongund> JN: There is a reference in the accessible description section to the use of @placeholder
16:22:16 <jongund> JN: Not sure if actually supported
16:25:48 <jongund> JN: @placeholder can be used for example values
16:26:46 <jongund> JN: @placeholder is an example 
16:26:59 <jamesn> The placeholder attribute represents a short hint (a word or short phrase) intended to aid the user with data entry. A hint could be a sample value or a brief description of the expected format. 
16:27:11 <jamesn> The placeholder attribute should not be used as an alternative to a label.
16:27:18 <jongund> LN: What could you use @placeholder for in WCAG 2.0, is the question
16:28:08 <jongund> JN: @placeholder could be a visual lable and search button next to it
16:28:35 <jongund> JN: Should be an HTML5 validation failure if you do not have a label
16:28:45 <jongund> JN: Anything else on placeholder
16:28:54 <jamesn> https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/htmltechs-20120409/results
16:29:29 <jamesn> http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/Using_HTML5_section_elements
16:29:46 <jongund> TOPIC: Using HTML5 Section element
16:29:57 <jongund> https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/htmltechs-20120409/results#xsection
16:30:27 <jongund> LG: Working on the test procedure would help with the technique
16:31:18 <jongund> JG: Is that the proper use of ARTICLE?
16:31:26 <jongund> LG: I not sure
16:31:49 <jongund> LG: It is good if a test procedure can be used in isolation
16:33:45 <jongund> Discuss this technique next week
16:34:09 <jongund> JN: FTF meeting at Lyon, get more people involved
16:34:28 <jongund> JN: Try to get some techniques written
16:34:33 <jongund> LG: I will be there
16:34:45 <jongund> JN: Josh will be there, I may be able to come
16:35:07 <jongund> MC: People from other groups will be there, PF, Authoring
16:35:32 <jongund> JN: The overlap ones are a big issue, there are mon/tues and thurs/fri
16:36:08 <jongund> LG: I think we can make it a working session with an agenda, may attact participation
16:36:24 <jongund> LG: We would need to have a detailed draft agenda soon
16:36:30 <jongund> JN: MC what are the timeline?
16:36:53 <jongund> MC: There is a survey now, I am looking when it closes
16:37:41 <jongund> MC: 30 April is the deadline
16:37:55 <jongund> MC: Difficult to backout if things don't work
16:38:04 <jongund> JN: Who will be attending
16:38:24 <jongund> LG: having an agenda will help
16:38:47 <jongund> MC: We have enough people to fill time, it is a question of people participating
16:39:30 <jongund> LG: Maybe we can get a discussion going
16:40:33 <jongund> rrsagent draft, minutes
16:40:43 <jongund> rrsagent, draft minutes
16:40:43 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/04/09-html-techs-tf-minutes.html jongund
16:40:57 <Zakim> -James_Nurthen
16:40:58 <Zakim> -Jon_Gunderson
16:40:58 <Zakim> -Marc_Johlic
16:41:00 <Zakim> -Loretta
16:41:06 <Zakim> -Cooper
16:41:07 <Zakim> WAI_HTML TT()11:30AM has ended
16:41:07 <Zakim> Attendees were James_Nurthen, Loretta, +1.217.244.aaaa, Marc_Johlic, Cooper, Jon_Gunderson
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