IRC log of mlw-lt on 2012-04-06

Timestamps are in UTC.

08:36:39 [RRSAgent]
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logging to
08:36:41 [trackbot]
RRSAgent, make logs world
08:36:41 [Zakim]
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08:36:43 [trackbot]
Zakim, this will be
08:36:43 [Zakim]
I don't understand 'this will be', trackbot
08:36:44 [trackbot]
Meeting: MultilingualWeb-LT Working Group Teleconference
08:36:44 [trackbot]
Date: 06 April 2012
08:36:51 [DomJones]
scribe: DomJones
08:37:01 [DomJones]
chair: daveL
08:37:02 [Pedro]
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08:38:47 [DomJones]
ACTION DomJones add page on wiki on Scribe 101 / simple commands for scribe
08:38:47 [trackbot]
Sorry, couldn't find user - DomJones
08:39:14 [DomJones]
ACTION Dominic add page on wiki on Scribe 101 / simple commands for scribe
08:39:14 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-43 - Add page on wiki on Scribe 101 / simple commands for scribe [on Dominic Jones - due 2012-04-13].
08:40:23 [DomJones]
trackbot, status
08:41:41 [DomJones]
TOPIC: roll call
08:42:03 [daveL]
08:42:34 [DomJones]
Zakim who is here?
08:42:45 [DomJones]
zakim, who's here ?
08:42:45 [Zakim]
sorry, DomJones, I don't know what conference this is
08:42:46 [Zakim]
On IRC I see Pedro, Zakim, RRSAgent, Arle, DomJones, philR, Jirka, Milan, doates, tadej, mihael, daveL, trackbot
08:42:56 [DomJones]
present: Pedro, Zakim, RRSAgent, Arle, DomJones, philR, Jirka, Milan, doates, tadej, mihael, daveL, trackbot
08:43:01 [DomJones]
Absent: Felxi, DavidF
08:43:45 [DomJones]
daveL: Any issues arising from last meeting?
08:43:46 [daveL]
08:43:58 [DomJones]
Pedro: quesitonnaire for gala people?
08:44:08 [DomJones]
arle: Tuesday
08:44:30 [DomJones]
daveL: Had about six responses, due to finish on 14th, need a push on Tuesday to send mails out
08:44:50 [DomJones]
arle: Felix extended to the 15ht
08:45:09 [DomJones]
daveL: Aim for that date and maybe extend
08:45:30 [DomJones]
daveL: Send the mail and then send reminder
08:45:43 [DomJones]
topic: Action points
08:45:51 [DomJones]
TOPIC: Action points
08:46:07 [DomJones]
rrsagent, generate minutes
08:46:07 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate DomJones
08:46:28 [daveL]
08:46:43 [DomJones]
daveL: Open actions and those pending review will be covered.
08:47:28 [DomJones]
daveL: Moritz - requirement to extract meta-data and store, leaving content in store - Moritz absent
08:48:00 [DomJones]
daveL: @arle, can you look at mail moritz sent and include those reqs in the reqs document. Put them under non functional requirements.
08:48:39 [DomJones]
daveL: Leave action open & contact moritz
08:48:55 [DomJones]
ACTION Arle to contact Moritz regarding action 20
08:48:55 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-44 - Contact Moritz regarding action 20 [on Arle Lommel - due 2012-04-13].
08:49:25 [DomJones]
daveL: Action 22, pushing back to beginning of April. On action to work with Ryan on Pri tracking, will pick that back up
08:49:45 [DomJones]
ACTION david to pick back up action 23
08:49:45 [trackbot]
Sorry, amibiguous username (more than one match) - david
08:49:45 [trackbot]
Try using a different identifier, such as family name or username (eg. dlewis6, dfilip)
08:49:58 [DomJones]
08:50:06 [DomJones]
ACTION dlewis6 to pick back up action 23
08:50:06 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-45 - Pick back up action 23 [on David Lewis - due 2012-04-13].
08:50:55 [DomJones]
daveL: push back meta-data action to may, locworld action: have federated event through MLW and XLIFF symp and unicode forum at locworld. David F has spoken to LocWorld org and looks promising.
08:51:28 [daveL]
08:51:51 [DomJones]
daveL: pending review - people have done something on them, is furthur disucssion needed?
08:52:10 [DomJones]
daveL: on action 14 - @pedro more follow on that?
08:53:42 [DomJones]
pedro: Clear already discussion is enough. On comment from Yves, I see domain_selector and seamantic_selector is domain (class) and semantics (lingusitics), different information levels.
08:54:10 [DomJones]
arle: bunch of data categories where the same issue is going to apply. Need to address for who project: How much do we define values.
08:54:23 [DomJones]
pedro: provide standard slot, without standard values.
08:54:50 [DomJones]
philR: Can we make data categories normative, but the content recommended? Is this fesable
08:55:28 [Jirka]
we can create registry for such values
08:55:38 [Jirka]
and link registry from standard, registry will be live
08:55:45 [DomJones]
daveL: Three situations, 1: Value for tag, 2: maybe a popular candidtate but not universal, 3:nothing there but would like data cat referenced in exernal schema
08:56:18 [DomJones]
daveL: No defaults then data category doesnt get used at all. Domains are really just list of client domains and therefore client dependant.
08:56:45 [DomJones]
pedro: disticntion between domain and semantic features. List of domains depends on content owner. So how do we unify this?
08:56:59 [DomJones]
daveL: From an MT viewpoint domains are data driven.
08:57:09 [DomJones]
rrsagent, generate minutes
08:57:09 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate DomJones
08:57:47 [DomJones]
arle: Jirka made important comment on creating a registary. Declare it to use and then we recognize it. Gives some officical recognition on domains.
08:57:51 [DomJones]
pedro: Could be LOD?
08:57:55 [DomJones]
dave L and Arle agree.
08:58:06 [DomJones]
daveL: LOD allows publishing of values and categories
08:58:38 [DomJones]
daveL: Can be an on-going best practice. Authorative ITS MLW-LT best-practice site. How this works with w3c is unsure.
08:59:10 [DomJones]
Jirka: W3C allready has wiki pages for this kind of situation, some precident.
08:59:27 [DomJones]
arle: one other option is ISOCAT, set-up specifically for this kind of thing.
08:59:33 [Jirka]
09:00:03 [DomJones]
daveL: On action 18 on David F, liase with Arle...
09:00:43 [DomJones]
arle: furthur disscussed with PhilR, want to merge five QA data categories, 1: document section layer, 2: Tagging of specific errors.
09:01:11 [DomJones]
daveL: Any objections?
09:01:40 [DomJones]
ACTION arle to merge current QA categories
09:01:40 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-46 - Merge current QA categories [on Arle Lommel - due 2012-04-13].
09:02:10 [daveL]
09:02:35 [DomJones]
daveL: CMS level management issues as been address (briefly) at the above link.
09:03:13 [DomJones]
Three things: 1) Only document level markup in ITS, several docs point to same rules file. Global rules, doc level, seperate file. Doesnt help with stand-off meta-data in CMS db
09:03:35 [DomJones]
daveL: Things like tags, are in CMS-db, how are those locallised? Is this in or out of scope.
09:04:23 [DomJones]
daveL: transclusion... from CMS viewpoint there is a relationship between two documents but they are two documents in terms of doc level markup
09:04:58 [DomJones]
daveL: CMS supports document structuring, user-defined links etc may result in requirements to apply data categories to a group of documents.
09:05:33 [DomJones]
daveL: Very short note on this avaliable at looking for more info from moritz & co
09:06:26 [DomJones]
pedro: 2 comments. 1) very good many process are not only doc-doc but are website wide or a whole section or brach of content. 2) Certain CMS only use contents in terms of internatl structure
09:06:58 [DomJones]
pedro: Experience with this, for organizing content outside CMS is not easy but information is relevant.
09:07:39 [DomJones]
daveL: different CMS = different approaches. Should talk to OASIS about this, address this with people who are more involved with CMS standardisation.
09:08:19 [DomJones]
daveL: Definition of impl in terms of consumers and producers. This bleeds into the issue of process state. Present in F-2-F in Lux.
09:08:49 [DomJones]
daveL: Thread of discussion - we should start addressing whether we have standard set of processes. Reqs are growing rapidly.
09:11:00 [DomJones]
daveL: @arle add couple of columns on req table, 1) Producing process 2) consuming process. Come up with candidate set of process and see if useful on req gathering stage.
09:11:11 [DomJones]
ACTION dlewis6 to add couple of columns on req table, 1) Producing process 2) consuming process.
09:11:11 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-47 - Add couple of columns on req table, 1) Producing process 2) consuming process. [on David Lewis - due 2012-04-13].
09:11:40 [DomJones]
rrsagent, generate minutes
09:11:40 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate DomJones
09:12:11 [DomJones]
pedro: this reqs table is very useful and practical if we provide this in the spec. Producers of content can look for metadata that affects them
09:12:18 [DomJones]
daveL: agrees.
09:12:42 [DomJones]
daveL: Need clear way of identifying which relate to them
09:12:56 [DomJones]
arle: need people to declare ownership of data categories.
09:13:43 [DomJones]
ACTION all to assign claim ownership of data categories.
09:13:43 [trackbot]
Sorry, couldn't find user - all
09:13:59 [DomJones]
ACTION arle to assign claim ownership of data categories.
09:13:59 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-48 - Assign claim ownership of data categories. [on Arle Lommel - due 2012-04-13].
09:14:21 [DomJones]
pedro: Assign to people directly?
09:14:29 [DomJones]
DomJones: Agrees with pedro.
09:14:42 [DomJones]
arle: give a couple of days then assign / suggest ownership.
09:14:53 [DomJones]
daveL: following this we can start pruning the list.
09:15:14 [DomJones]
arle: some wont be assigned to current WG - hence some may be in limbo but should be core list soon.
09:15:21 [DomJones]
TOPICS: Dublin workshop (June)
09:15:27 [DomJones]
TOPIC: Dublin workshop (June)
09:15:34 [DomJones]
rrsagent, generate minutes
09:15:34 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate DomJones
09:15:36 [daveL]
09:16:50 [DomJones]
daveL: Summary: Planned 12th of June for F-2-F workshop (MLW-WG) discuss Reqs have open process of attracting non members, voice Points of View. Close to point at which this is all tied down. Looking for points of view to prioritize things.
09:17:04 [DomJones]
daveL: At MLW Lux hot topic was LOD and MLW.
09:17:47 [DomJones]
daveL: Christian (SAP) ran session on this, outcome on this was workshop co-located with June Workshop. Hence you can see CfP is live. PC exists under MLW banner, covers:
09:18:18 [DomJones]
daveL: 11th workshop on MLW and LOD, with paul B (DERI) - he (paul) is very much involved in Semantic Web com.
09:19:08 [DomJones]
daveL: 12th + 13th = MLW reqs workshop. Open adverts, CfP on MLW page, send in position statements. Go through selection process. In-fact targeting people.
09:19:42 [DomJones]
daveL: Gone through targeting process for LOD on the 11th, for the 12th and 13th which other voices do we want involved in wrapping up reqs gathering process.
09:19:56 [daveL]
09:20:03 [DomJones]
daveL: we have a wiki page already for this process. See
09:20:32 [DomJones]
daveL: Has populated this with a strawman for the two days. Arle and I have action to invite people along to this. Want buy-in from the group on this.
09:21:28 [DomJones]
daveL: 1st day (12th) scene settings, review of current req documents. Three sessions: 15 mins slot to say what they want to say.
09:21:46 [DomJones]
daveL: Localisation, CMS, Lang/Tech stakeholders, therefore three slots.
09:22:26 [DomJones]
daveL: Takes us through to the afternoon then have working session where we take on board new views. Assign priorities. On day 2 (13th) non functional requirements.
09:23:19 [DomJones]
daveL: Informative process model must be made in agreement with XLIFF working group etc. Should focus on second day on standardisation groups and there impact on specific mappings.
09:24:16 [DomJones]
daveL: Do we need to get those from other WG along to engage with the MLW-LT group. Nail down co-ord and collab plans, and implementation mappings. Some discussion on the list about this.
09:24:34 [DomJones]
daveL: Implementation commitments, clear requirements planning.
09:25:07 [DomJones]
daveL: Allows ticking off of implementations against test-cases.
09:25:37 [DomJones]
daveL: Evening of the 12th have a reception (drinks and food) and also for implementations showcases.
09:26:28 [DomJones]
daveL: Show implementations and discuss use-cases to attendees. Make this a very open event - local Irish L10n people.
09:26:50 [DomJones]
daveL: Any initial comments on this?
09:27:36 [DomJones]
doates: The second day, non-functional liaisons - things that are not part of the data-categories themselves?
09:27:55 [DomJones]
daveL: Things that may need to be agreed with outside contacts / cross over multiple data categories.
09:28:45 [DomJones]
daveL: UNICODE forum, Lynports (sp), GALA, TAUS... People representing constituency and concurrent standards. (DITA etc)
09:29:27 [DomJones]
pedro: Practical thing. 9-5 is not enough... need more time.
09:30:17 [DomJones]
daveL: Some people will be here from the 11th... Finishing earlier and making sure we cover important topics. This is a very early plan. Arle and I will scope to the right audience.
09:30:33 [DomJones]
pedro: Need to make sure organization of topics is addressed
09:31:05 [DomJones]
daveL: Arle, Dave L will discuss this on Tuesday. Felix is away, David F is away. Arle and Dave L need to address who to invite along.
09:31:50 [DomJones]
daveL: Second day is strategic, other working groups, first day is industrial. Big clients represented? Could doates do this?
09:32:11 [DomJones]
doates: space for end-to-end use-case scenario here, happy to present as such.
09:32:46 [DomJones]
daveL: will take to Moritz about CMS, @doates, others have lots of feed into workplan through EU proposal, looking forward to your feedback on this.
09:33:16 [DomJones]
daveL: CMS stakeholders - Moritz may recommend others. MS - Sharepoint.
09:33:40 [DomJones]
daveL: Have covered reqs document. Any other points on this ?
09:35:19 [DomJones]
daveL: people need to own data categories. 10 days to wrap up reqs questionnaire and collaborate with Arle on this. Reach point where we start adding more detail and suggesting the merging and grouping of reqs. Please raise such candidates on mailing list. Between now and cloising of quesitonnaire need to take these issues forward. need to go to workshop knowing the exact community by-in were looking for.
09:35:29 [DomJones]
daveL: any concerns from anyone else?
09:35:31 [DomJones]
09:36:18 [DomJones]
daveL: On outstanding issues we've run out of time on this, on scripting content - pedro, any input on this?
09:37:44 [DomJones]
pedro: tired to be concrete on this, in the same way deciding about ontologies is out of scope in terms of the time we have. Scripting is out of scope, but we can provide input on good practices for a better functioning on scripting. Provide best-practices for internatliationsation of CMS
09:38:40 [DomJones]
ACTION dlewis6 talk to R12a on best practices for internationalisation and contributions WG can make to this.
09:38:41 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-49 - Talk to R12a on best practices for internationalisation and contributions WG can make to this. [on David Lewis - due 2012-04-13].
09:39:35 [DomJones]
pedro: things on issue 5 are only a few things we miss in the real implementations that we repeatedly have to explain to clients.
09:40:05 [DomJones]
daveL: Need some guidelines for this, provide web-page for this. I'll follow up with r12a (Richard) on this.
09:40:16 [DomJones]
daveL: Other people must be hitting this problems.
09:40:28 [DomJones]
daveL: Run out of meeting time. AOB?
09:40:54 [DomJones]
pedro: Category on process trigger, maybe I need to explain in more detail.
09:41:06 [DomJones]
ACTION pedro explain process triggers in more detail
09:41:07 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-50 - Explain process triggers in more detail [on Pedro Luis Díez Orzas - due 2012-04-13].
09:41:29 [DomJones]
daveL: Priority data category exists?
09:42:09 [DomJones]
pedro: priority is relative... Concurrent works may have priority conflicts.
09:42:52 [DomJones]
arle: what time Tuesday shall we talk?
09:43:09 [DomJones]
daveL: suggests 11am Berlin, 10am Dublin.
09:43:16 [DomJones]
meeting agreed.
09:43:32 [DomJones]
daveL: Happy easter, next call next Thursday.
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09:44:58 [DomJones]
rrsagent, generate minutes
09:44:58 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate DomJones
09:48:44 [DomJones]
rrsagent, generate minutes
09:48:44 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate DomJones
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11:23:49 [Zakim]
restarting in 2 minutes to reset bridge connection
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