16:42:20 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #ua
16:42:20 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2012/04/05-ua-irc
16:42:22 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public
16:42:22 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #ua
16:42:24 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be WAI_UAWG
16:42:24 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see WAI_UAWG()1:00PM scheduled to start in 18 minutes
16:42:25 <trackbot> Meeting: User Agent Accessibility Guidelines Working Group Teleconference
16:42:25 <trackbot> Date: 05 April 2012
16:42:33 <JAllan> rrsagent, set logs public
16:42:42 <JAllan> chair: jimallan, KellyFord
16:43:02 <JAllan> regrets: Kelly
16:44:25 <JAllan> Agenda+ document closure - Continuing to close down items marked with
16:44:27 <JAllan> @@ in editor's draft - Agenda (see mail to be sent from Jim on items
16:44:29 <JAllan> of focus for this week)
16:44:31 <JAllan> agenda+ face to face scheduling
16:45:29 <JAllan_> JAllan_ has joined #ua
16:52:38 <mhakkinen> mhakkinen has joined #ua
16:59:33 <Zakim> WAI_UAWG()1:00PM has now started
16:59:34 <Zakim> +Jim_Allan
17:00:26 <Zakim> +Jeanne
17:00:28 <Zakim> -Jeanne
17:00:28 <Zakim> +Jeanne
17:00:30 <Greg> Greg has joined #ua
17:01:40 <Zakim> +Greg_Lowney
17:02:28 <sharper> sharper has joined #ua
17:03:42 <Jan> Jan has joined #ua
17:04:24 <Jan> zakim, code?
17:04:24 <Zakim> the conference code is 82941 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), Jan
17:04:37 <Zakim> +??P12
17:04:56 <Jan> zakim, ??P12 is really Jan
17:04:56 <Zakim> +Jan; got it
17:05:18 <Zakim> +??P15
17:05:19 <JAllan> current draft: http://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/2012/ED-UAAG20-20120328/
17:05:21 <sharper> zakim, ??P15 is sharper
17:05:21 <Zakim> +sharper; got it
17:07:31 <JAllan> current draft: http://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/2012/ED-UAAG20-20120328/
17:07:40 <JAllan> zakim, agenda?
17:07:40 <Zakim> I see 2 items remaining on the agenda:
17:07:42 <Zakim> 1. document closure - Continuing to close down items marked with [from JAllan]
17:07:42 <Zakim> 2. face to face scheduling [from JAllan]
17:07:53 <JAllan> zakim, open item 2
17:07:53 <Zakim> agendum 2. "face to face scheduling" taken up [from JAllan]
17:11:08 <JAllan> F2F will happen in Austin on June 4 & 5
17:12:35 <JAllan> arrangements to follow shortly.
17:13:04 <jeanne> jeanne has joined #ua
17:13:25 <JAllan> zakim: close item 2
17:13:38 <JAllan> zakim, close item 2
17:13:38 <Zakim> agendum 2, face to face scheduling, closed
17:13:39 <Zakim> I see 1 item remaining on the agenda:
17:13:39 <Zakim> 1. document closure - Continuing to close down items marked with [from JAllan]
17:16:08 <JAllan> Topic: Action-646 write examples for 321
17:16:11 <JAllan> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2012JanMar/0097.html
17:16:26 <Greg> Here's the draft:
17:16:28 <Greg> Ryan uses a mouse, but his hand tremor makes him more likely to accidentally miss his intended target. Cancel and Submit (or OK) buttons are often next to each other, and Ryan has found that submitting a form inappropriately can cause serious complications, so he sets a browser option to always request confirmation of form submissions. As a result, when he clicks on a submit button the...
17:16:30 <Greg> ...browser presents a message box asking “Are you sure you want to submit this form?” with buttons to Submit and Cancel.
17:17:10 <Greg> Ryan uses a mouse but his hand tremor makes him more likely to accidentally miss his intended target. Cancel and Submit (or OK) buttons are often next to each other, and Ryan has found that submitting a form inappropriately can cause serious complications, so he sets a browser option to always request confirmation of form submissions. As a result, when he clicks on a submit button the...
17:17:12 <Greg> ...browser presents a message box asking “Are you sure you want to submit this form?” with buttons for Submit and Cancel.
17:19:52 <KimPatch> KimPatch has joined #ua
17:19:55 <JAllan> scribe: jallan
17:20:18 <JAllan> all discussion of the wording. 
17:20:27 <Zakim> +Kim_Patch
17:20:55 <JAllan> sh: if user has trouble with form buttons won't the have trouble with the dialog.
17:21:16 <JAllan> gl: could use css to separate buttons further
17:21:42 <JAllan> js: why not a setting in the UA for larger buttons, or more space.
17:22:19 <JAllan> gl: that would be bad for dexterity issues.
17:22:47 <Greg> That is, we don't want to always require larger, more widely spaced buttons.
17:22:52 <JAllan> js: they wouldn't be asking for the confirmation.
17:24:22 <Greg> We discussed whether confirmation is the best that can be done for people who inadvertently click buttons, and ideas for additional features that could help.
17:24:47 <jeanne> As a result, when he clicks on a submit button the browser presents a message box asking "Are you sure you want to submit this form?" with larger, well-spaced buttons for Submit and Cancel.
17:26:03 <JAllan> topic: 121
17:26:07 <JAllan> 1.2.1 Repair Missing Alternatives
17:26:09 <JAllan> 1.2.2 Repair Empty Alternatives
17:26:10 <JAllan> Action-712
17:26:12 <JAllan> https://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/tracker/actions/712
17:26:13 <JAllan> Write an SC to substitute for 1.2.1 and 1.2.2 that gives the user the
17:26:15 <JAllan> ability to request the meta data available for an object,
17:27:56 <Greg> What is the difference between "Browse and Render" and this proposal?
17:29:08 <JAllan> see minutes: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2012JanMar/0050.html
17:30:27 <sharper> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2012JanMar/0039.html
17:30:40 <Zakim> +[Microsoft]
17:32:09 <kford> kford has joined #ua
17:37:40 <JAllan> topic: 1.8.5 action-491
17:38:17 <JAllan> jr: any view port state allowed by the content or web application.
17:38:38 <Jan> 1.8.5 Viewport History:For user agents that implement a viewport history mechanism (e.g. "back" button), the user can return to any state in the viewport history that is allowed by the content, restoring the prior point of regard, input focus and selection.(Level A)
17:38:46 <JAllan> gl: feels that there is existing somewhere
17:40:46 <JAllan> kf+ +1
17:41:00 <JAllan> no objections
17:41:30 <JAllan> Resolved: add 	1.8.5 Viewport History:For user agents that implement a viewport history mechanism (e.g. "back" button), the user can return to any state in the viewport history that is allowed by the content, restoring the prior point of regard, input focus and selection.(Level A) to document
17:41:58 <JAllan> close action-637
17:41:58 <trackbot> ACTION-637 Craft 1.8.5 closed
17:42:09 <JAllan> close action-491
17:42:09 <trackbot> ACTION-491 Rewrite 1.8.5 to include exception for financial or other web application criteria (can't go back or charge credit card twice) closed
17:45:01 <jeanne> action-639?
17:45:01 <trackbot> ACTION-639 -- Jan Richards to propose how to explain that 1.10.2 outline view should be operable -- due 2011-11-10 -- OPEN
17:45:01 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/tracker/actions/639
17:45:26 <JAllan> jan will review Action-639
17:48:48 <JAllan> topic: Action-467 on 1.11.1 and 1.11.2
17:48:59 <JAllan> js: could move 1.11.1 to AA
17:49:08 <JAllan> 1.11.1 Access Relationships: The user can access explicitly-defined relationships based on the user's position in content (e.g. show form control's label, show label's form control, show a cell's table headers). (Level A)
17:50:43 <JAllan> ja: should be A.
17:51:55 <JAllan> js: not done well today. 
17:53:25 <JAllan> sh: this should stay A, unless covered else where. visually proximity defines relation.
17:53:57 <JAllan> ... if relationship is explicity defined then user should be able to access it.
17:54:24 <JAllan> s/explicty/explicitly
17:55:24 <JAllan> discussion about position in content
17:55:33 <jeanne> Intent of Success Criterion 1.11.1: 
17:55:33 <jeanne> Some users have difficulty perceiving, remembering, or understanding the relationships between elements and their contexts. HTML controls and elements are sometimes grouped together to make up a composite control; certain elements relate to others in a recognizable manner, such as relationships with 'id' attributes and child elements. This is the case with Ajax widgets and with form elements. By 
17:55:33 <jeanne> making sure the user can be informed about these relationships means that, say, visually disabled users can better understand these relationships even if the elements are not adjacent on the screen or the DOM. 
17:55:34 <jeanne> Examples of Success Criterion 1.11.1: John has low vision and uses a screen magnifier to access his Browser. When interacting with tables and spreadsheets John has to move the viewport of the magnifier to understand the row and column titles of the cell with which he is interacting. This takes additional time and effort and is therefore frustrating. John has just purchased a new Browser because it 
17:55:39 <jeanne> presents the row and column titles when he hovers over a cell - this makes him much more productive at his accounting job. 
17:55:41 <jeanne> Related Resources for Success Criterion 1.11.1: WAI-ARIA
17:55:43 <jeanne> UAAG 2.7.3 Location in Hierarchy
17:56:19 <JAllan> jr: person on form control, they can find the label. if in a table cell, they can find headers.
17:57:20 <JAllan> jr: in 1.2.3 we have mission associations (artificial intelligence...difficult to do)
17:57:35 <JAllan> jr: not cover elsewhere
17:58:58 <JAllan> jr: what does this mean in operationally
17:59:21 <JAllan> ... what about summary, or adjacent cells, testing gets tricky
17:59:46 <JAllan> ja: do we need to reword to make it more testable.
18:00:03 <JAllan> jr: what does "user can access" mean.
18:00:31 <JAllan> ... with AT only or programmatically 
18:01:29 <JAllan> jr: AT DOM navigation. surfacing it to every user (hover over cell). intermediate possibility...firebug to technically show all known relationships
18:01:59 <JAllan> gl: target of this SC is general user not the techy
18:02:31 <JAllan> jr: is there something implicit that the user cannot understand without the relationships. 
18:04:35 <JAllan> ... if the rest of the document disappeared, what else is needed (relationships) to gain meaning for a particular set of words.
18:05:12 <JAllan> js: if it stays an A, it needs to have a lower scope.
18:06:04 <JAllan> jr: this is similar to GL 2.5 (2.5.1, 2.5.2)
18:07:32 <JAllan> jr: there are about a dozen SC related to relationships.
18:08:07 <JAllan> Action: Jim to review all SC related to relationships to simplify with Jan
18:08:07 <trackbot> Created ACTION-722 - Review all SC related to relationships to simplify with Jan [on Jim Allan - due 2012-04-12].
18:09:39 <JAllan> jr: what about ARIA relationships, parent-child, etc. fieldset/legent, table summary and caption
18:10:38 <JAllan> 2.1.8 Efficient Keyboard Access
18:10:40 <JAllan> Action-530
18:10:41 <JAllan> https://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/tracker/actions/530
18:10:43 <JAllan> Look at IER for the new 2.1.8 and compare with the IER for ATAG
18:10:44 <JAllan> A.3.1.3 and update as necessary.
18:11:31 <jeanne> action-530?
18:11:31 <trackbot> ACTION-530 -- Jeanne F Spellman to look at IER for the new 2.1.8 and compare with the IER for ATAG A.3.1.3 and update as necessary. -- due 2011-12-02 -- OPEN
18:11:31 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/tracker/actions/530
18:11:32 <JAllan> Topic: 2.1.8 Action-530
18:11:50 <JAllan> Jeanne will review
18:11:59 <jeanne> also needs mobile example.
18:13:43 <jeanne> action-518?
18:13:43 <trackbot> ACTION-518 -- Jim Allan to combine 2.11.2-4 (auto and executable content) into 1 sc with IER -- due 2011-12-02 -- OPEN
18:13:43 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/tracker/actions/518
18:19:28 <JAllan> topic: 1.2.4 reviw
18:19:43 <JAllan> s/reviw/review
18:20:10 <JAllan> 1.2.4 Broken Alternative Content: The user can be notified when the user agent cannot render alternative content (e.g. when captions are broken). (Level AAA)
18:20:29 <kford> This one is fine to me.
18:23:31 <JAllan> js: +1
18:23:36 <JAllan> ja: +1
18:24:08 <JAllan> Resolved: 1.2.4 done!
18:24:40 <JAllan> topic: 1.3.1
18:24:53 <JAllan> 1.3.1 Highlighted Items:
18:24:55 <JAllan> The user can globally specify that the following be highlighted so that each class is uniquely distinguished. It is not the intention that all recognized enabled elements be uniquely distinguished, just that they be distinguished from disabled elements. (Level A)
18:25:51 <JAllan> jr: do we say "globally specify" anymore
18:26:17 <JAllan> ... second sentence seems to contradict first.
18:27:52 <JAllan> 1.3.1 Highlighted Items:
18:27:54 <JAllan> The user can globally specify that the following be highlighted so that each class is uniquely distinguished. (Level A)
18:27:55 <JAllan>     (a) selection
18:27:57 <JAllan>     (b) active keyboard focus (indicated by focus cursors and/or text cursors)
18:27:58 <JAllan>     (c) recognized enabled elements (distinguished from disabled elements)
18:28:00 <JAllan>     (d) elements with alternative content (see 1.1.2)
18:28:01 <JAllan>     (e) recently visited links
18:30:25 <JAllan> The user can globally specify that the following be highlighted so that each of the following classes is uniquely distinguished: (Level A)
18:30:27 <JAllan> 	(a) selection
18:30:29 <JAllan> 	(b) active keyboard focus (indicated by focus cursors and/or text cursors)
18:30:30 <JAllan> 	(c) recognized enabled elements (distinguished from disabled elements)
18:30:32 <JAllan> 	(d) elements with alternative content (see 1.1.2)
18:30:33 <JAllan> 	(e) recently visited links
18:31:55 <JAllan> The user can globally specify that the following classes be highlighted so that each is uniquely distinguished: (Level A)
18:31:56 <JAllan> 	(a) selection
18:31:58 <JAllan> 	(b) active keyboard focus (indicated by focus cursors and/or text cursors)
18:31:59 <JAllan> 	(c) recognized enabled elements (distinguished from disabled elements)
18:32:01 <JAllan> 	(d) elements with alternative content (see 1.1.2)
18:32:02 <JAllan> 	(e) recently visited links
18:32:27 <JAllan> jr: why visited links
18:32:54 <JAllan> gl: cognitive load....too much to remember what you have visited
18:33:11 <JAllan> jr: what about links that are video controls
18:33:17 <JAllan> gl: edge case
18:33:25 <JAllan> jr: not a big issue.
18:34:15 <JAllan> The user can globally specify that the following classes be highlighted so that each is uniquely distinguished: (Level A)
18:34:16 <JAllan> 	(a) selection
18:34:18 <JAllan> 	(b) active keyboard focus (indicated by focus cursors and/or text cursors)
18:34:19 <JAllan> 	(c) recognized enabled elements (distinguished from disabled elements)
18:34:21 <JAllan> 	(d) elements with alternative content (see 1.1.2)
18:34:22 <JAllan> 	(e) recently visited links
18:34:58 <JAllan> kf: +1
18:35:02 <JAllan> sh: +1
18:35:17 <JAllan> Resolved: 1.3.1 DONE!
18:35:39 <Zakim> -[Microsoft]
18:36:08 <Zakim> -sharper
18:36:29 <JAllan> greg out next week.
18:38:04 <JAllan> rrsagent, make minutes
18:38:04 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/04/05-ua-minutes.html JAllan
18:38:08 <Zakim> -Kim_Patch
18:38:32 <Zakim> -Jan
18:39:08 <Zakim> -Greg_Lowney
18:40:30 <Zakim> -Jeanne
18:40:32 <Zakim> -Jim_Allan
18:40:34 <Zakim> WAI_UAWG()1:00PM has ended
18:40:34 <Zakim> Attendees were Jim_Allan, Jeanne, Greg_Lowney, Jan, sharper, Kim_Patch, [Microsoft]
18:41:03 <JAllan> zakim, please part
18:41:03 <Zakim> Zakim has left #ua
18:41:10 <JAllan> rrsagent, make minutes
18:41:10 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/04/05-ua-minutes.html JAllan
18:42:13 <JAllan> JAllan has joined #ua
18:42:19 <JAllan> present: Jeanne, Kelly, Simon, Greg, Kim, Jim, Jan
18:42:29 <JAllan> rrsagent, make minutes
18:42:29 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/04/05-ua-minutes.html JAllan
18:43:39 <JAllan> rrsagent, please part
18:43:39 <RRSAgent> I see 1 open action item saved in http://www.w3.org/2012/04/05-ua-actions.rdf :
18:43:39 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Jim to review all SC related to relationships to simplify with Jan [1]
18:43:39 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2012/04/05-ua-irc#T18-08-07