IRC log of gld on 2012-04-05

Timestamps are in UTC.

14:01:08 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #gld
14:01:08 [RRSAgent]
logging to
14:01:10 [trackbot]
RRSAgent, make logs world
14:01:11 [Zakim]
Zakim has joined #gld
14:01:12 [trackbot]
Zakim, this will be GLD
14:01:13 [Zakim]
ok, trackbot, I see T&S_GLDWG()10:00AM already started
14:01:13 [trackbot]
Meeting: Government Linked Data Working Group Teleconference
14:01:13 [trackbot]
Date: 05 April 2012
14:01:18 [luisBermudez]
luisBermudez has joined #gld
14:01:19 [Zakim]
+ +
14:01:44 [PhilA2]
PhilA2 has joined #gld
14:01:53 [Mike_Pendleton]
Mike_Pendleton has joined #gld
14:02:01 [PhilA2]
zakim, code?
14:02:03 [Zakim]
+ +1.540.898.aaee
14:02:07 [Zakim]
14:02:13 [BartvanLeeuwen]
Zakim, me is ??p34
14:02:25 [Zakim]
the conference code is 45394 (tel:+1.617.761.6200, PhilA2
14:02:37 [Zakim]
sorry, BartvanLeeuwen, I do not recognize a party named 'me'
14:02:44 [Zakim]
+ +3539149aaff
14:02:53 [Zakim]
+ +1.267.481.aagg
14:02:55 [mhausenblas]
Zakim, aaff is me
14:03:13 [BartvanLeeuwen]
Zakim, ??p34 is me
14:03:17 [Zakim]
+mhausenblas; got it
14:03:24 [George]
trackbot, start telecon
14:03:26 [trackbot]
RRSAgent, make logs world
14:03:28 [trackbot]
Zakim, this will be GLD
14:03:29 [trackbot]
Meeting: Government Linked Data Working Group Teleconference
14:03:29 [Zakim]
+BartvanLeeuwen; got it
14:03:29 [trackbot]
Date: 05 April 2012
14:03:35 [Zakim]
ok, trackbot, I see T&S_GLDWG()10:00AM already started
14:03:57 [Zakim]
14:04:12 [olyerickson]
Zakim, ??P44 is me.
14:04:18 [BenediktKaempgen]
zakim, who's here?
14:04:31 [Zakim]
+olyerickson; got it
14:04:38 [bhyland]
zakim, who is on the call?
14:04:39 [Zakim]
14:04:43 [Zakim]
On the phone I see +1.202.691.aaaa, George_Thomas, +49.721.aabb, +1.202.566.aacc, +, +1.540.898.aaee, BartvanLeeuwen, mhausenblas, +1.267.481.aagg, olyerickson,
14:04:46 [Zakim]
... ??P52
14:04:47 [PhilA2]
zakim, ??p52 is me
14:05:10 [Zakim]
On the phone I see +1.202.691.aaaa, George_Thomas, +49.721.aabb, +1.202.566.aacc, +, +1.540.898.aaee, BartvanLeeuwen, mhausenblas, +1.267.481.aagg, olyerickson,
14:05:11 [BenediktKaempgen]
zakim, aabb is BenediktKaempgen
14:05:19 [Zakim]
... ??P52
14:05:21 [DanG]
691-aaaa is DanG
14:05:23 [Zakim]
On IRC I see Mike_Pendleton, PhilA2, luisBermudez, Zakim, RRSAgent, gatemezi, DanG, olyerickson, BartvanLeeuwen, MacTed, George, mhausenblas, danbri, BenediktKaempgen, bhyland,
14:05:26 [Zakim]
... trackbot, sandro
14:05:29 [luisBermudez]
aagg is me
14:05:32 [Zakim]
+PhilA2; got it
14:05:48 [PhilA2]
zakim, aaaa is DanG
14:05:50 [bhyland]
zakim, aaaa is danG
14:05:52 [Zakim]
+BenediktKaempgen; got it
14:06:28 [Zakim]
+DanG; got it
14:06:32 [Zakim]
sorry, bhyland, I do not recognize a party named 'aaaa'
14:06:40 [Mike_Pendleton]
zakim, aacc is Mike_Pendleton
14:07:08 [George]
zakim, who is here?
14:07:10 [gatemezi]
Zakim, + is me
14:07:14 [Zakim]
+Mike_Pendleton; got it
14:07:30 [tinagheen]
tinagheen has joined #gld
14:07:42 [Zakim]
On the phone I see DanG, George_Thomas, BenediktKaempgen, Mike_Pendleton, +, +1.540.898.aaee, BartvanLeeuwen, mhausenblas, +1.267.481.aagg, olyerickson, PhilA2
14:07:49 [Zakim]
+gatemezi; got it
14:08:03 [gatemezi]
Zakim, + is gatemezi
14:08:07 [olyerickson]
Scribe: olyerickson
14:08:19 [Zakim]
On IRC I see tinagheen, Mike_Pendleton, PhilA2, luisBermudez, Zakim, RRSAgent, gatemezi, DanG, olyerickson, BartvanLeeuwen, MacTed, George, mhausenblas, danbri, BenediktKaempgen,
14:08:23 [Zakim]
... bhyland, trackbot, sandro
14:08:39 [PhilA2]
zakim, who is here?
14:08:42 [Zakim]
sorry, gatemezi, I do not recognize a party named '+'
14:08:47 [Zakim]
14:08:53 [tinagheen]
Zakim, [LC] is me
14:08:57 [olyerickson]
14:09:06 [Zakim]
On the phone I see DanG, George_Thomas, BenediktKaempgen, Mike_Pendleton, gatemezi, +1.540.898.aaee, BartvanLeeuwen, mhausenblas, +1.267.481.aagg, olyerickson, PhilA2, [LC]
14:09:16 [olyerickson]
Materials published; congrats and thanks to everyone esp Sandrp
14:09:21 [Zakim]
+tinagheen; got it
14:09:24 [olyerickson]
14:09:31 [gatemezi]
14:09:43 [Zakim]
On IRC I see tinagheen, Mike_Pendleton, PhilA2, luisBermudez, Zakim, RRSAgent, gatemezi, DanG, olyerickson, BartvanLeeuwen, MacTed, George, mhausenblas, danbri, BenediktKaempgen,
14:09:45 [Zakim]
... bhyland, trackbot, sandro
14:09:47 [PhilA2] works
14:09:48 [olyerickson]
Comments from mhausenblas
14:09:55 [Zakim]
+ +
14:10:11 [olyerickson]
Now that FPWD is out, move toward ISA (?) "alignment"
14:10:45 [olyerickson]
... PhilA: core vocabs integrated next couple weeks
14:11:16 [olyerickson]
... ISA specs NOT currently in published versions of FPWDs
14:11:17 [Biplav]
Biplav has joined #gld
14:11:31 [olyerickson]
mhausenblas: Planning call req'd
14:11:38 [olyerickson]
PhilA2: makes sense
14:11:48 [olyerickson]
... needs to send mhausenblas something before WWW
14:12:07 [PhilA2] works
14:12:15 [George]
14:12:27 [bhyland]
agenda+ coordination between Prov group (Luc and Paul Groth) + Mhausenblas & ?? re: agent meets people vocab
14:12:28 [PhilA2]
Guess what
14:12:51 [PhilA2]
14:13:24 [olyerickson]
bhyland: Skip to "Org" agenda item
14:13:29 [PhilA2] :-(
14:13:37 [olyerickson]
+1 bhyland to explain...
14:14:19 [olyerickson]
... Weds during sweb coord meeting, paul groth mentioned multiple W3C groups with RPOV concerns
14:14:58 [PhilA2]
14:15:03 [olyerickson]
Topic: PROV tie-ins
14:15:41 [olyerickson]
mhausenblas: What is the status of PROV?
14:15:52 [PhilA2]
14:16:08 [olyerickson]
bhyland: need to keep up with our liaison with PROV
14:16:25 [olyerickson]
... current status of PROV, not that far ahead
14:16:37 [George]
ack PhilA
14:16:41 [olyerickson]
PhilA2: would like to be involved in that discussion
14:17:10 [bhyland]
Paul Groth mentioned these references for our consideration:
14:17:11 [bhyland]
[1] people:
14:17:11 [bhyland]
[2] org:
14:17:11 [bhyland]
[3] prov-dm:
14:17:13 [olyerickson]
... SPARQL 1.1 is about to bring up "prov" considerations
14:17:33 [George]
14:17:44 [olyerickson]
14:17:48 [olyerickson]
14:18:23 [olyerickson]
George: Org "speaks to" OPMV...
14:18:55 [olyerickson]
Topic: Last week's minutes
14:18:58 [mhausenblas]
14:19:07 [gatemezi]
14:19:10 [Mike_Pendleton]
14:19:13 [BenediktKaempgen]
14:19:13 [luisBermudez]
14:19:40 [PhilA2]
14:19:46 [olyerickson]
George: Sorry to miss "geo work" discussion last week
14:19:58 [olyerickson]
... any further discussion/comments
14:20:10 [bhyland]
closing loop on coordinating mhausenblas, phila2, luc and paul groth, see
14:20:12 [George]
14:20:16 [George]
ack olyerickson
14:20:59 [PhilA2]
olyerickson: Regarding the provenance discussion... I'm trying to understand what the issue is? Was Paul concerned that there are lots of parallel efforts on provenance, or people, or what?
14:21:04 [bhyland]
TOPIC: Wrap up from last week's GeoLinkData Initiative ...
14:21:34 [annew]
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14:21:52 [olyerickson]
bhyland: explanation of PROV question
14:22:08 [PhilA2]
bhyland: AIUI, Paul in particular, they invented "agent" and it has a lot of people attributes. We're up to 4 different ways to capture people-related info just from W3C
14:22:12 [olyerickson]
... up to 4 ways to describe people
14:22:21 [olyerickson]
... need to coordinate
14:22:38 [olyerickson]
... bhyland tasked with bringing together the various parties
14:22:53 [olyerickson]
... is there common ground, or should there be separate paths
14:22:57 [Zakim]
14:23:01 [sandro]
(Sorry I'm late)
14:23:08 [olyerickson]
... can/should "people" be simpler
14:23:15 [PhilA2]
Someone said ?
14:23:50 [olyerickson]
... example w.r.t simplicity 9and role in packaging/marketing)
14:24:30 [olyerickson]
Topic: What to do w.r.t. geo vocabulary
14:24:49 [olyerickson]
George: many esp govt would like to put a "stake in the ground"
14:24:54 [bhyland]
To remind people who were present last week (and weren't), Boris gave a great talk on work on map4rdf, see
14:24:56 [olyerickson]
... poll the group?
14:25:30 [olyerickson]
PhilA2: Trying to notice what is going on, while being concerned about strengthing this group
14:25:41 [olyerickson]
... BUT we do have optional item
14:25:42 [gatemezi]
@bhyland --Thanks for the link
14:25:54 [olyerickson]
... there is much well-done current work in this area
14:25:59 [BartvanLeeuwen]
14:26:16 [olyerickson]
... thinks, OGC's (??) job
14:26:24 [olyerickson]
... yet people bring it to use
14:26:24 [bhyland]
Per PhilA2's reference, see
14:26:42 [gatemezi]
+1 to PhilA
14:26:44 [PhilA2]
ack BartvanLeeuwen
14:26:49 [olyerickson]
... GLD is in a position to consider, yet we have it as an opt. on our charter
14:27:06 [olyerickson]
BartvanLeeuwen: concern over amt of work reqd to get it done
14:27:18 [olyerickson]
... should at least reference the relevant vocabs
14:27:30 [bhyland]
14:27:34 [olyerickson]
... shouldn't write our own recommendation
14:27:42 [olyerickson]
... there are "smarter" people to do that
14:27:53 [olyerickson]
... best practices should be able to point to other references
14:28:02 [PhilA2]
ref: Open Geospatial Consortium
14:28:03 [olyerickson]
... but maybe not...
14:28:08 [luisBermudez]
14:28:26 [olyerickson]
George: If there *is* energy, there is interest in the community
14:28:40 [olyerickson]
... there's lots of innovation going on in this area
14:28:42 [olyerickson]
14:28:57 [olyerickson]
bhyland: BP doc focusing on what SHOULD be done
14:29:02 [olyerickson]
... BP not about "how"
14:29:16 [olyerickson]
... rec'd of vocabs is new ground for W3C
14:29:53 [PhilA2]
I'm the last person to object to FOAF!
14:29:55 [olyerickson]
... GLD approach to rec'd vocabs is new
14:30:21 [PhilA2]
14:30:22 [olyerickson]
... need to be careful to not go beyond out core expertise
14:30:26 [PhilA2]
ack bhyland
14:30:34 [PhilA2]
ack luisBermudez
14:31:09 [olyerickson]
luisBermudez: Geo vocab standard will be published soon
14:31:34 [olyerickson]
... important to find way to integrate e.g. geoSPARQL, etc
14:32:12 [PhilA2]
luisBermudez: geoSPARQL will be publicly available in June (from OGC)
14:32:21 [PhilA2]
ack me
14:32:34 [olyerickson]
... luisBermudez the problem: geoSPARQL not a publicly available standard (will be)
14:32:52 [BenediktKaempgen]
14:33:00 [olyerickson]
PhilA2: GLD should look at it "a little later" in the year
14:33:14 [olyerickson]
... FOAF is now under the wing of DC
14:33:17 [sandro]
14:33:40 [sandro]
q+ to ask Phil in what sense one vocab can use another
14:33:41 [bhyland]
@PhilA2 thanks for clarifying/reminding me re: ISA People & FOAF embrace
14:33:50 [olyerickson]
... thought question: Will FOAF be around next year?
14:34:12 [sandro]
DanG, the reference was to Dan Brickley, co-parent of FOAF.
14:35:43 [danbri]
while we're on topic, can I draw attention to some other People vocab things from this week?
14:35:44 [bhyland]
@george, what URL would you like me to add to agenda from HR14 proposal discussion?
14:35:46 [danbri]
14:35:48 [olyerickson]
BenediktKaempgen: Talked to supervisor, tells us that that community has tried to consolidate, question of what GLD process will be for integrating in ???geo (neogeo?)
14:36:13 [olyerickson]
Thanks to sandro for the big push last night
14:36:13 [bhyland]
+1 thanks to Sandro
14:36:18 [danbri]
opensocial is a tech for making social networks, and is linked to PortableContacts, a vcard-based addressbook format. opensocial people are wondering how to address new requirements for modelling organizations, scientific info etc.
14:36:24 [gatemezi]
14:36:37 [olyerickson]
14:36:38 [danbri]
e.g .!topic/opensocial-and-gadgets-spec/g3NyGn-8Avs
14:36:49 [olyerickson]
is there an announcement that some of us are missing?
14:37:07 [olyerickson]
sandro: What does it mean for one vocab to "use" another
14:37:13 [danbri]
neogeo ~"> ?
14:38:15 [olyerickson]
PhilA2: Issue of alignment of e.g. foaf:Person with equivalent, etc
14:38:45 [olyerickson]
... See PhilA2 blog post (today)
14:39:09 [olyerickson]
... motivated PhilA2 to think foaf should be retired...
14:39:20 [gatemezi]
@LuisBermudez: could you know any triple store that have implemented part of geoSPARQL requirements?
14:39:44 [olyerickson]
sandro: can't recommend The Government to use vocab that can't be used in perpetuity
14:39:50 [PhilA2]
smotivated PhilA2 to think foaf should be retired.../motivated PhilA2 to think a day may come when foaf could be retired.../
14:39:54 [PhilA2]
s/motivated PhilA2 to think foaf should be retired.../motivated PhilA2 to think a day may come when foaf could be retired.../
14:40:12 [PhilA2]
My blog post
14:40:27 [sandro]
14:40:33 [sandro]
14:40:57 [bhyland]
PhilA2: There may a day in our community that some sacred cows should be retired …
14:41:26 [George]
14:42:03 [bhyland]
14:42:09 [bhyland]
14:42:21 [sandro]
q+ to disagree with olyerickson
14:42:51 [olyerickson]
bhyland: It's a concept called "social responsibility"
14:43:14 [olyerickson]
... when you publish "content" you are making a commitment or 'social contract'
14:43:35 [olyerickson]
... for the foreseeable future
14:43:48 [olyerickson]
... BP must educate/"warn" adopters
14:44:15 [olyerickson]
... vocabs should be from authoritative sources that make commitment
14:44:24 [bhyland]
zakim, who is speaking?
14:44:33 [olyerickson]
sandro: doesn't agree
14:44:35 [Zakim]
bhyland, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: George_Thomas (5%), olyerickson (9%), Sandro (57%)
14:44:41 [Zakim]
- +
14:44:56 [olyerickson]
... W3C makes a commitment to e.g. DCAT
14:45:21 [George]
14:45:25 [George]
ack bhyland
14:45:25 [olyerickson]
... details will change, there is a process and W3C stands behind it
14:45:28 [George]
ack sandro
14:45:28 [Zakim]
sandro, you wanted to disagree with olyerickson
14:45:29 [bhyland]
ack bhyland
14:46:23 [PhilA2]
olyerickson: You, Sandro, were right to disagree with my words
14:46:33 [PhilA2]
olyerickson: An organisation needs to know what it is adopting
14:46:35 [bhyland]
Sandro: Gov'ts should be able to count on key vocabs, such as DCAT, in perpetuity.
14:46:53 [PhilA2]
... e.g. the current version of DCAT, recognising that it may evolve
14:47:12 [PhilA2]
olyerickson: They need to recognise that by using a vocan they become part of that community
14:47:27 [sandro]
+1 olyerickson Yes, people adopting a tech become part of the stewardship community, when things work well. That's sustainable.
14:47:32 [bhyland]
johnerickson: Gov't need to recognize their role as stewards of vocabs [and data sets] that they publish.
14:47:34 [PhilA2]
... they can't wine about the fact that current browsers don't working with HTML1 any more
14:47:40 [sandro]
14:47:53 [olyerickson]
we are in fervent agreement
14:47:59 [bhyland]
zakim, who is on the call?
14:47:59 [Zakim]
On the phone I see DanG, George_Thomas, BenediktKaempgen, Mike_Pendleton, gatemezi, +1.540.898.aaee, BartvanLeeuwen, mhausenblas, +1.267.481.aagg, olyerickson, PhilA2, tinagheen,
14:48:02 [Zakim]
... Sandro
14:48:07 [olyerickson]
(if not using the most articulate language)
14:48:22 [olyerickson]
sandro: brings us back to foaf
14:48:59 [mhausenblas]
Michael: I have to apologise, need to run now (need to do some fire-fighting, unforeseen incident that came up …)
14:49:02 [olyerickson]
... might have a situation where W3C doesn't control the namespace, dereferencing, etc
14:49:16 [olyerickson]
... need to ensure namespace is part of the community stewardship
14:49:27 [PhilA2]
14:49:30 [olyerickson]
... community needs to have control
14:49:43 [olyerickson]
PhilA2: agrees with sandro
14:50:24 [sandro]
sandro: We should only use namespaces for which we have en enforcable commitment to respect some legitimate stewardship/community process
14:50:29 [olyerickson]
... "DanBri under a bus" problem has created adoption problems for foaf in the past, seems to be resolved now
14:51:15 [olyerickson]
... key issue is foaf:Person and allow imaginary people
14:51:29 [PhilA2]
14:51:37 [olyerickson]
Topic: HR14
14:51:46 [olyerickson]
... httpRange-14
14:51:54 [danbri]
(the dictionaries definition of 'person' allows imaginary people too) (imagine a dictionary where each term had 'except for pretend X's...'?)
14:51:55 [Zakim]
14:52:13 [olyerickson]
George: any views/thoughts?
14:52:18 [danbri]
btw ... if GLD have expectations re what long-term preservation commitments you'd like from, do please write them down and pass them along
14:52:19 [olyerickson]
sandro: (laughs)
14:52:26 [olyerickson]
... gave up in 2003
14:52:55 [olyerickson]
... proposed 303 but has given up
14:53:44 [gatemezi]
I was reading also this post of Jenni
14:53:49 [PhilA2]
olyerickson: I've been watching in the way you watch a NASCAR race expecting a crash. A real concern is implementation efficiency
14:54:22 [PhilA2]
... there are existential issues but the practical ones are perhaps more key - redirection, caching and so on
14:54:45 [PhilA2]
... there are some proposals around 3xx and 200/207
14:55:02 [PhilA2]
... I really haven't seen a convergence
14:55:15 [olyerickson]
Current state: Open for proposals
14:55:16 [PhilA2]
George: It's open for proposals on possible conversion
14:55:22 [bhyland]
14:56:31 [sandro]
14:56:32 [bhyland]
olyerickson: "I'm not interested from a fascinated academic perspective, rather a grouchy implementer."
14:56:49 [olyerickson]
14:57:47 [olyerickson]
bhyland: jenit is soliciting proposals
14:58:01 [olyerickson]
... trying to do it sensibly
14:58:10 [olyerickson]
... reaching out to stakeholders
14:58:31 [olyerickson]
... jenit trying to get something done
14:58:47 [olyerickson]
... put something in writing, not "pissy emails"
14:59:11 [olyerickson]
not(sandro) : interested in concern over performance
14:59:32 [olyerickson]
... are there designs that deliver performance which doesn't violate semantics of 303
14:59:54 [George]
14:59:55 [olyerickson]
how to engage: write it up, submit
15:00:11 [bhyland]
ack bhyland
15:00:13 [olyerickson]
Topic: Wrap-up
15:00:59 [olyerickson]
George: Interesting how when GLD people get interested and start to engage, their Inboxes get flooded
15:01:25 [olyerickson]
Topic: Agenda items for next week
15:01:32 [olyerickson]
(none offered)
15:01:42 [olyerickson]
15:01:46 [gatemezi]
Thanks George and olyerickson..
15:01:48 [olyerickson]
'Have a great day'
15:01:52 [BartvanLeeuwen]
thx and bye !
15:01:52 [BenediktKaempgen]
15:01:55 [DanG]
15:02:01 [PhilA2]
PhilA2 has left #gld
15:02:07 [Zakim]
15:02:13 [Zakim]
15:02:17 [Zakim]
15:02:19 [Zakim]
- +1.540.898.aaee
15:02:21 [Zakim]
- +1.267.481.aagg
15:02:29 [Zakim]
15:02:33 [olyerickson]
RRSAgent, set logs world-visible
15:02:37 [Zakim]
15:02:41 [Zakim]
15:02:46 [olyerickson]
RRSAgent, generate minutes
15:02:46 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate olyerickson
15:03:01 [Zakim]
15:03:13 [Zakim]
15:05:30 [George]
15:10:47 [Zakim]
15:10:48 [Zakim]
15:10:50 [Zakim]
T&S_GLDWG()10:00AM has ended
15:10:52 [Zakim]
Attendees were +1.202.691.aaaa, George_Thomas, +49.721.aabb, +1.202.566.aacc, +1.540.898.aaee, +3539149aaff, +1.267.481.aagg, mhausenblas, BartvanLeeuwen, olyerickson, PhilA2,
15:10:56 [Zakim]
... BenediktKaempgen, DanG, Mike_Pendleton, gatemezi, tinagheen, +, Sandro
15:29:16 [olyerickson]
olyerickson has left #gld