IRC log of au on 2012-04-02

Timestamps are in UTC.

18:50:51 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #au
18:50:51 [RRSAgent]
logging to http://www.w3.org/2012/04/02-au-irc
18:50:57 [Jan]
Zakim, this will be AUWG
18:50:57 [Zakim]
ok, Jan; I see WAI_AUWG()3:00PM scheduled to start in 10 minutes
18:51:01 [Jan]
Meeting: WAI AU
18:51:12 [Jan]
Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-au/2012AprJun/0001.html
18:51:27 [Jan]
Chair: Jutta Treviranus
18:56:16 [jeanne]
jeanne has joined #au
19:00:04 [Zakim]
WAI_AUWG()3:00PM has now started
19:00:11 [Zakim]
+Jeanne
19:02:09 [Zakim]
+??P1
19:02:22 [Jan]
zakim, ??P1 is really Jan
19:02:22 [Zakim]
+Jan; got it
19:03:12 [Zakim]
+??P2
19:04:13 [Jan]
zakim, ??P2 is really Jutta
19:04:13 [Zakim]
+Jutta; got it
19:11:36 [Jan]
zakim, who's here?
19:11:36 [Zakim]
On the phone I see Jeanne, Jan, Jutta
19:11:38 [Zakim]
On IRC I see jeanne, RRSAgent, Zakim, Jan, trackbot
19:12:43 [Zakim]
+Greg
19:13:56 [Zakim]
+[Microsoft]
19:15:32 [Jan]
zakim,[Microsoft] is really CherieE
19:15:32 [Zakim]
+CherieE; got it
19:15:39 [Greg]
Greg has joined #au
19:15:47 [Jan]
scribe: Jan
19:15:59 [Jan]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-au/2012AprJun/0001.html
19:16:27 [Jan]
Topic: 1. Process review comments
19:16:56 [Jan]
Jan's start on comments: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-au/2012AprJun/0000.html
19:17:14 [Tim]
Tim has joined #au
19:17:21 [Jan]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-archive/2012Mar/att-0007/AB_List_of_Concerns-20120306.htm
19:17:52 [Zakim]
+Tim_Boland
19:20:26 [Jan]
JT: 1- This would be useful and should contain a quick reference checklist (should be a living document)
19:22:34 [Jan]
2- Some aspects of this (good standing, heartbeats) could benefit from some flexibility.
19:22:36 [Jan]
3- Only those things worth enforcing in all instances should be process rules. The rest might inform best practices.
19:24:05 [Jan]
GP: Brings up issue of charter...seemed to take time away from standards authoring
19:24:48 [Jan]
JT: More general point about sparing members of group from the bureaucratic side of things.
19:25:33 [Zakim]
+Sueann
19:25:49 [Jan]
3A- Charter administration should fall less on members of group trying to work
19:26:12 [Jan]
3B- Charter should be more of a living document with respect to work being done
19:26:38 [Sueann]
Sueann has joined #au
19:26:43 [Jan]
JS: Sometimes that's our protection.
19:27:13 [Jan]
Process Implementation: Do the roles & responsibilities of identified people need updating
19:27:15 [Jan]
4- This wouldn't hurt.
19:27:16 [Jan]
5- But the most important issue is that Groups and Editors should never contravene the consensus of the group (especially when votes have actually been taken)
19:29:55 [Jan]
Process clarity: Process clarity: Going to Last Call (LC) is misleading for Candidate Recommendation (CR) changes
19:29:57 [Jan]
6- Agree. Perhaps circling at CR should be possible.
19:30:23 [Jan]
JS: Tricky issue is that Last Call is patent exclusion opportunity.
19:31:02 [Jan]
6- Agree. Perhaps circling at CR should be possible as long a spatent exclusion issues are handle.
19:31:06 [Jan]
6- Agree. Perhaps circling at CR should be possible as long a spatent exclusion issues are handled.
19:32:02 [Jan]
TB: Perception that many stakeholders dont pay attention till last call...so perception is actually the First Look
19:33:20 [Jan]
6- Agree. Perhaps circling at CR should be possible as long a spatent exclusion issues are handled. It is a cyclical process, so better terms probably exist.
19:33:34 [Jan]
6- Agree. Perhaps circling at CR should be possible as long as patent exclusion issues are handled. It is a cyclical process, so better terms probably exist.
19:34:17 [Jan]
GP: ISO has different terms
19:36:22 [Jan]
Process clarity: How should implementation integrate into process
19:36:23 [Jan]
7- Agree that waiting till CR is too late. Instead, there should be talk about implementation throughout with clear disclaimers that prior to CR, things can change so early implementers need to understand that.
19:36:43 [Jan]
Complexity of Process Document
19:36:45 [Jan]
8- Agree with all. See my comment #3
19:39:40 [Jan]
8- Hearbeat requirements much less important for public groups like AUWG
19:40:48 [Jan]
Speed of document production
19:40:50 [Jan]
9- These delays can be frustrating but not sure how to get around them. One possibility that could also help implementers could be the ability to lock certain parts of the document that the group feels is done. And to ensure this, the pub rules checker might be able to detect if there have been changes to locked areas.
19:43:00 [Jan]
Contextual/Social Framework: Desire for stable reference
19:43:01 [Jan]
10- Stable references are very important. It is very useful for an email in the list to be able to point to a stable section of a stable document.
19:43:03 [Jan]
11- On the other hand, if the area of a recommendation continues to evolve quickly, why should a document ever be "done"?
19:44:34 [Jan]
10- Stable references are very important. It is very useful for an email in the list to be able to point to a stable section of a stable document. Also required for reference from legislation and policy
19:46:32 [Jan]
Can we improve input from 'horizontal' groups (WAI, I18N, ...).
19:46:34 [Jan]
12- It is tricky to balance the need of WGs to move forward on specs with accessibility (I18N, security?) review, especially when it is well known that accessibility is easier when built in from the beginning. First public draft seems too late for the first review. Perhaps a review should occur on the requirements or similar document at the outset? And perhaps WGs could receive a checklist...
19:46:36 [Jan]
...of type of things that, when added to spec, will trigger accessibility issues so they will be less surprised when things are flagged later and perhaps be more likely to proactively seek accessibility input?
19:48:00 [Jan]
JS: Like waht
19:48:11 [Jan]
JT: Independece across modalities
19:48:15 [Jan]
JT: etc
19:49:27 [Jan]
JT: Everyone fairly satisfied with this as a set of commetns from AUWG?
19:49:31 [Jan]
GP: Great
19:49:34 [Jan]
JS: Yes
19:49:57 [Jan]
CE: Deadline?
19:50:01 [Jan]
JS: This friday?
19:50:09 [Jan]
Topic: 2. Publication update (Jeanne)
19:50:30 [Jan]
JS: No new news...I continue to push towards publishing, waiting for approvals.
19:50:51 [Jan]
Topic: 3. Need to update conformance report (Jan)
19:51:18 [Jan]
Topic: 4. Testing update (Jeanne)
19:51:28 [Jan]
JR: Re 3 nothing done yet
19:51:34 [Jan]
JS: Nothing new since last week.
19:52:21 [Jan]
JS: We have a new tool in W3C that is continuing to evolve. Takes our tests and provides a place to store them....people can query etc
19:52:35 [Jan]
JS: People can run test on their own tools
19:52:48 [Jan]
JS: THats the plan. It is still publically availalble.
19:53:33 [Jan]
JS: Key thing is that we have test cases to write...hundreds of them.
19:53:52 [Jan]
JS: For each we need a basic test, a failure test and then edge cases.
19:54:34 [Jan]
JR: Hopefully some of TIm's past testing suite work can be re-used
19:54:52 [Jan]
TB: I'd like to see what can be reused
19:55:01 [Jan]
Topic: 5. F2F at TPAC in Nov (Jeanne)
19:55:10 [Jan]
http://www.w3.org/2012/10/TPAC/
19:55:22 [Jan]
JS: TPAC will be in France in Nov
19:55:43 [Jan]
JS: Last week we wanted to find out if our European partners would be able to attend.
19:56:19 [Jan]
JS: I will put up a survey for the TPAC F2F
19:56:33 [Jan]
JT: Coleman insistute meeting is at the same time
19:57:04 [Jan]
JT: 1-2 of Nov
19:57:32 [Jan]
JT: Also we are co-hosting something in Colombia lat Oct
19:58:34 [Jan]
JR: Sounds like it won't work
19:58:50 [Jan]
JS: What a number of groups do is meet the following week
19:59:41 [Sueann]
Sueann has left #au
20:00:16 [Jan]
JT: We may have a host in Dublin
20:01:11 [Jan]
JT: No call on April 9
20:01:20 [Zakim]
-Sueann
20:01:54 [Zakim]
-Tim_Boland
20:01:55 [Zakim]
-CherieE
20:01:58 [Zakim]
-Jutta
20:02:00 [Zakim]
-Jan
20:02:00 [Zakim]
-Greg
20:02:01 [Zakim]
-Jeanne
20:02:01 [Zakim]
WAI_AUWG()3:00PM has ended
20:02:03 [Zakim]
Attendees were Jeanne, Jan, Jutta, Greg, CherieE, Tim_Boland, Sueann
20:02:11 [Jan]
RRSAgent, make minutes
20:02:11 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/04/02-au-minutes.html Jan
20:02:19 [Jan]
RRSAgent, set logs public
20:02:23 [Jan]
Zakim, bye
20:02:24 [Zakim]
Zakim has left #au
20:02:29 [Jan]
RRSAgent, bye
20:02:29 [RRSAgent]
I see no action items