See also: IRC log
<scribe> scribe: JF
Judy met with Sam, Paul PLH re metagenerator issue, and @longdesc/Issue 204
<LeifHSilli> I am on pnone,, Leif
Janina - re:metagenerator, attempted to discuss concerns re questons being posed
strayig into weeds by the questions
user needs not being met, users require alt text
Judy - believe chairs now realize that question may have been 'off" - request that we document items
hope to get them discussed and have the question re-opened and looked at
Judy - re: @longdesc/Issue 204
Paul is hoping to join thursday's a11yTF call
and explain the Chairs plans moving forward
Judy - did not have an opportunity to discuss bugs around location of ALT guidance
plan on meeting next Monday, hope to add additional items for that call's agenda
Judy - it was a somewhat useful call
didn't get back to <canvas> either
Janina - notes a revert notice last night
Judy - still unclear on impact on a11y issues
Judy - chairs are very interested in this timeline issue
did clarify that Rich's email was a design idea being explored, and not the start of ARIA 1.1 at this time
Chairs would like a statement from PFWG/janina as to whether ARIA 1.1 would be done within the timeframe of HTML5 for HTML5 timeline
Janina - understood this slightly differently
heard "will we be coming back with aria-describedat in time for HTML5 timeline"
believe the answer is no, but it remains possible
given timeline of HTML5's timeline
Judy - disconnect from what Judy heard - checking actual question (in writing)
Janina - quotes chairs email
<janina> Janina to establish that describedat is not being pursued with a
<janina> completion that would make it relevant in an HTML5 timeframe.
Janina - suggests that it is already irrelevant to HTML5 time-line
Janina - if HTML5 only goes to TR in 2016 then it is likely describedat will be done
but with regard to published timeline for HTML5 it is likely not going to happen
Janina - expects this discussed in PF call later this week
Judy - with regard to ARIA 1.1 timeline, will get determination from PF call later this week?
Janina - yes
Judy - other questions?
Judy - good that Laura and Leif are here for this
Janina - question from coordination is are we going to modify to accept obsolete but conforming
believe we are tending towards no on that question
but we need to be definitive on this resolution
Janina - why i believe it must remain fully conforming
it is aimed at authors - it says this is good, but something new is better
but we don't yet have a better
so we have nothing to point to - it doesn't exist
JF says +1
Janina - believe we need this resolved now
Judy - do either Leif or Laura wish to comment
Leif - I agree
<Judy> +1
Laura - I agree as well, @longdesc is a useful attribute in and of itself
Judy - we may need to have more rationale captured for the larger Working Group
Laura - could point to the spec, as it says that and contains examples
Judy - succinct list is helpful
all we can do is make a recommendation to the larger TF, and then WG
Janina - recap of the key points
Obsolete suggests that authors *STOP* using something and start using something else
this is not the message we want to be sending
Judy - want to also convey that J&J had a long discussion with CoChairs on next steps
not happy with unnecessarydelay, but understand Chairs need to walk through the steps
Janina - we need to be sure that whatever the outcome of I204 that we clearly explain why the describedby approach does not work
+Q
<Judy> s/l204/204/
Janina - there seems to be some fallacy on this how will work
(JF explains the issue with "hidden" content versus off-screen content)
Judy - anyone have any further questions
Leif - we need to be sure to clearly explain why it doesn't work
Laura - this is going to be complicated to author
JF - this *does* work, but with lousy UI interaction
if you place tab-focusable content off screen it breaks UI behavior
so it *does* work, but it introducing contraventions to WCAG reqs
and so for that reason is unacceptable
Janina - Josh and James have begun an HTML5 / WCAG techniques Task Force (joint TF with PF)
JF - so this needs to be captured in that group as well
<janina> x/co-chair/co-chair/
Janina - be sure to capture that a table with 6 rows, 6 columns would introduce 36 tab-stops off screen
<Judy> Judy: while your CP on poster was denied because of a dependency on longdesc, in principle, the idea of taking issues in sequence because of dependencies should be acceptable since the WG is already doing that, for instance with 204 and longdesc. So we will be requesting reconsideration of the denial.
JF- discussion of the dual problem of requiring longer text descriptions for both the MP4 and the JPG (w.r.t. <video>)
thus @longdesc would solve one of those problems
- now on agneda item 12 - metagenerator
<Judy> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2011Apr/0451.html
Judy - we will need to document some things about metagenerator
about 1/4 - 1/3 way through that email
on some justifications, they are either incorrect assumptions or inappropriate weighting
Judy - would like to get a reading on these 10 things, and get feedback
then author a short email that recaps this
Janina - we also need to discount ian's assertions about authoring tools
<Judy> ...by pointing to things they readily accepted, but shouldn't
Judy - looking for people to comment on a draft
Leif agrees to assist as well
<laura> I can help with it too.
<laura> Had to drop off the call. Thanks everyone.
<Judy> thanks Laura
Judy - will need to defer remaining items
<Judy> NEXT MEETING SAME TIME SAME PLACE
bye 'till thursday
This is scribe.perl Revision: 1.136 of Date: 2011/05/12 12:01:43 Check for newer version at http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/ Guessing input format: RRSAgent_Text_Format (score 1.00) Succeeded: s/ATL/ALT/ Succeeded: s/a useful call/a somewhat useful call/ Succeeded: s/that ARIA 1.1 will not be ready/as to whether ARIA 1.1 would be done within the timeframe of HTML5/ Succeeded: s/unessecary /unnecessary/ Succeeded: s/discussion on next steps/discussion with CoChairs on next steps/ FAILED: s/l204/204/ Succeeded: s/have begun/co-chair/ Found Scribe: JF Inferring ScribeNick: JF Default Present: John_Foliot, Judy, LeifHSilli, Laura_Carlson, Janina Present: John_Foliot Judy LeifHSilli Laura_Carlson Janina Got date from IRC log name: 27 Mar 2012 Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2012/03/27-text-minutes.html People with action items: WARNING: Input appears to use implicit continuation lines. You may need the "-implicitContinuations" option.[End of scribe.perl diagnostic output]