Text Alternatives Sub-Group of HTML A11Y Task Force

27 Mar 2012

See also: IRC log


John_Foliot, Judy, LeifHSilli, Laura_Carlson, Janina


<scribe> scribe: JF

coordination update on several text-alternatives change proposals; other pending issues

Judy met with Sam, Paul PLH re metagenerator issue, and @longdesc/Issue 204

<LeifHSilli> I am on pnone,, Leif

Janina - re:metagenerator, attempted to discuss concerns re questons being posed

strayig into weeds by the questions

user needs not being met, users require alt text

Judy - believe chairs now realize that question may have been 'off" - request that we document items

hope to get them discussed and have the question re-opened and looked at

Judy - re: @longdesc/Issue 204

Paul is hoping to join thursday's a11yTF call

and explain the Chairs plans moving forward

Judy - did not have an opportunity to discuss bugs around location of ALT guidance

plan on meeting next Monday, hope to add additional items for that call's agenda

Judy - it was a somewhat useful call

didn't get back to <canvas> either

Janina - notes a revert notice last night

Judy - still unclear on impact on a11y issues

aria 1.1 timeline in relation to html5 timeline

Judy - chairs are very interested in this timeline issue

did clarify that Rich's email was a design idea being explored, and not the start of ARIA 1.1 at this time

Chairs would like a statement from PFWG/janina as to whether ARIA 1.1 would be done within the timeframe of HTML5 for HTML5 timeline

Janina - understood this slightly differently

heard "will we be coming back with aria-describedat in time for HTML5 timeline"

believe the answer is no, but it remains possible

given timeline of HTML5's timeline

Judy - disconnect from what Judy heard - checking actual question (in writing)

Janina - quotes chairs email

<janina> Janina to establish that describedat is not being pursued with a

<janina> completion that would make it relevant in an HTML5 timeframe.

Janina - suggests that it is already irrelevant to HTML5 time-line

Janina - if HTML5 only goes to TR in 2016 then it is likely describedat will be done

but with regard to published timeline for HTML5 it is likely not going to happen

Janina - expects this discussed in PF call later this week

Judy - with regard to ARIA 1.1 timeline, will get determination from PF call later this week?

Janina - yes

Judy - other questions?

longdesc conformance

Judy - good that Laura and Leif are here for this

Janina - question from coordination is are we going to modify to accept obsolete but conforming

believe we are tending towards no on that question

but we need to be definitive on this resolution

Janina - why i believe it must remain fully conforming

it is aimed at authors - it says this is good, but something new is better

but we don't yet have a better

so we have nothing to point to - it doesn't exist

JF says +1

Janina - believe we need this resolved now

Judy - do either Leif or Laura wish to comment

Leif - I agree

<Judy> +1

Laura - I agree as well, @longdesc is a useful attribute in and of itself

Judy - we may need to have more rationale captured for the larger Working Group

Laura - could point to the spec, as it says that and contains examples

Judy - succinct list is helpful

all we can do is make a recommendation to the larger TF, and then WG

Janina - recap of the key points

Obsolete suggests that authors *STOP* using something and start using something else

this is not the message we want to be sending

Judy - want to also convey that J&J had a long discussion with CoChairs on next steps

not happy with unnecessarydelay, but understand Chairs need to walk through the steps

Janina - we need to be sure that whatever the outcome of I204 that we clearly explain why the describedby approach does not work


<Judy> s/l204/204/

Janina - there seems to be some fallacy on this how will work

(JF explains the issue with "hidden" content versus off-screen content)

Judy - anyone have any further questions

Leif - we need to be sure to clearly explain why it doesn't work

Laura - this is going to be complicated to author

JF - this *does* work, but with lousy UI interaction

if you place tab-focusable content off screen it breaks UI behavior

so it *does* work, but it introducing contraventions to WCAG reqs

and so for that reason is unacceptable

Janina - Josh and James have begun an HTML5 / WCAG techniques Task Force (joint TF with PF)

JF - so this needs to be captured in that group as well

<janina> x/co-chair/co-chair/

Janina - be sure to capture that a table with 6 rows, 6 columns would introduce 36 tab-stops off screen

other issues pending longdesc resolution

<Judy> Judy: while your CP on poster was denied because of a dependency on longdesc, in principle, the idea of taking issues in sequence because of dependencies should be acceptable since the WG is already doing that, for instance with 204 and longdesc. So we will be requesting reconsideration of the denial.

JF- discussion of the dual problem of requiring longer text descriptions for both the MP4 and the JPG (w.r.t. <video>)

thus @longdesc would solve one of those problems

- now on agneda item 12 - metagenerator

<Judy> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2011Apr/0451.html

Judy - we will need to document some things about metagenerator

about 1/4 - 1/3 way through that email

on some justifications, they are either incorrect assumptions or inappropriate weighting

Judy - would like to get a reading on these 10 things, and get feedback

then author a short email that recaps this

Janina - we also need to discount ian's assertions about authoring tools

<Judy> ...by pointing to things they readily accepted, but shouldn't

Judy - looking for people to comment on a draft

Leif agrees to assist as well

<laura> I can help with it too.

<laura> Had to drop off the call. Thanks everyone.

<Judy> thanks Laura

confirm status up to date at http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/wiki/Accessibility_Change_Proposal_Status

Judy - will need to defer remaining items


bye 'till thursday

Summary of Action Items

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Default Present: John_Foliot, Judy, LeifHSilli, Laura_Carlson, Janina
Present: John_Foliot Judy LeifHSilli Laura_Carlson Janina
Got date from IRC log name: 27 Mar 2012
Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2012/03/27-text-minutes.html
People with action items: 

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