16:24:45 RRSAgent has joined #text 16:24:45 logging to http://www.w3.org/2012/03/27-text-irc 16:24:50 zakim, room for 8? 16:24:51 ok, Judy; conference Team_(text)16:24Z scheduled with code 2119 (A11Y) for 60 minutes until 1724Z 16:24:54 chair: Judy 16:25:48 meeting: Text Alternatives Sub-Group of HTML A11Y Task Force 16:26:17 agenda+ coordination update on several text-alternatives change proposals; other pending issues 16:26:17 agenda+ aria 1.1 timeline in relation to html5 timeline 16:26:17 agenda+ longdesc conformance 16:26:17 agenda+ other issues pending longdesc resolution 16:26:17 agenda+ input into meta-name generator re-proposal 16:26:17 agenda+ broader review for additional bugs on HTML5 alt guidance, and CP on WG location of alt guidance http://www.w3.org/html/wg/wiki/ChangeProposals/movealt 16:26:22 agenda+ confirm status up to date at http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/wiki/Accessibility_Change_Proposal_Status 16:26:23 agenda+ confirm next meeting; identify next scribe; adjourn 16:58:48 JF has joined #text 17:00:08 Team_(text)16:24Z has now started 17:00:09 janina has joined #text 17:00:16 +John_Foliot 17:00:35 +??P3 17:00:39 -John_Foliot 17:00:40 +John_Foliot 17:01:10 LeifHSilli has joined #text 17:03:57 +Judy 17:04:48 Judy has joined #text 17:06:05 scribe: JF 17:06:22 zakim, take up next item 17:06:22 agendum 8. "coordination update on several text-alternatives change proposals; other pending issues" taken up [from Judy] 17:07:20 +??P7 17:07:28 -??P7 17:07:53 Judy met with Sam, Paul PLH re metagenerator issue, and @longdesc/Issue 204 17:07:55 +??P7 17:08:08 laura has joined #text 17:08:22 I am on pnone,, Leif 17:08:51 zakim, ??P7 is LeifHSilli 17:08:54 +LeifHSilli; got it 17:09:31 +Laura_Carlson 17:09:37 Janina - re:metagenerator, attempted to discuss concerns re questons being posed 17:09:45 strayig into weeds by the questions 17:09:59 user needs not being met, users require alt text 17:10:46 Judy - believe chairs now realize that question may have been 'off" - request that we document items 17:11:06 hope to get them discussed and have the question re-opened and looked at 17:11:22 Judy - re: @longdesc/Issue 204 17:11:47 Paul is hoping to join thursday's a11yTF call 17:11:56 and explain the Chairs plans moving forward 17:12:46 Judy - did not have an opportunity to discuss bugs around location of ATL guidance 17:12:54 s/ATL/ALT 17:13:24 plan on meeting next Monday, hope to add additional items for that call's agenda 17:13:39 Judy - it was a useful call 17:14:01 didn't get back to either 17:14:11 Janina - notes a revert notice last night 17:14:22 s/a useful call/a somewhat useful call/ 17:14:22 Judy - still unclear on impact on a11y issues 17:16:35 zakim, take up next item 17:16:35 agendum 9. "aria 1.1 timeline in relation to html5 timeline" taken up [from Judy] 17:16:49 zakim, close item 8 17:16:49 agendum 8, coordination update on several text-alternatives change proposals; other pending issues, closed 17:16:51 I see 7 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is 17:16:51 9. aria 1.1 timeline in relation to html5 timeline [from Judy] 17:17:13 Judy - chairs are very interested in this timeline issue 17:17:49 did clarify that Rich's email was a design idea being explored, and not the start of ARIA 1.1 at this time 17:18:13 Chairs would like a statement from PFWG/janina that ARIA 1.1 will not be ready for HTML5 timeline 17:18:24 Janina - understood this slightly differently 17:18:42 heard "will we be coming back with aria-describedat in time for HTML5 timeline" 17:18:55 believe the answer is no, but it remains possible 17:19:15 given timeline of HTML5's timeline 17:19:29 s/that ARIA 1.1 will not be ready/as to whether ARIA 1.1 would be done within the timeframe of HTML5 17:19:36 Judy - disconnect from what Judy heard - checking actual question (in writing) 17:20:32 Janina - quotes chairs email 17:20:36 Janina to establish that describedat is not being pursued with a 17:20:47 completion that would make it relevant in an HTML5 timeframe. 17:21:09 Janina - suggests that it is already irrelevant to HTML5 time-line 17:21:51 Janina - if HTML5 only goes to TR in 2016 then it is likely describedat will be done 17:22:06 but with regard to published timeline for HTML5 it is likely not going to happen 17:22:29 Janina - expects this discussed in PF call later this week 17:23:36 Judy - with regard to ARIA 1.1 timeline, will get determination from PF call later this week? 17:23:40 Janina - yes 17:23:46 Judy - other questions? 17:23:49 zakim, close item 9 17:23:49 agendum 9, aria 1.1 timeline in relation to html5 timeline, closed 17:23:50 I see 6 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is 17:23:50 10. longdesc conformance [from Judy] 17:23:58 zakim, take up next item 17:23:58 agendum 10. "longdesc conformance" taken up [from Judy] 17:24:21 Judy - good that Laura and Leif are here for this 17:24:53 Janina - question from coordination is are we going to modify to accept obsolete but conforming 17:25:02 believe we are tending towards no on that question 17:25:20 but we need to be definitive on this resolution 17:25:36 Janina - why i believe it must remain fully conforming 17:25:55 it is aimed at authors - it says this is good, but something new is better 17:26:02 but we don't yet have a better 17:26:14 so we have nothing to point to - it doesn't exist 17:26:30 JF says +1 17:26:51 Janina - believe we need this resolved now 17:27:18 Judy - do either Leif or Laura wish to comment 17:27:23 Leif - I agree 17:27:37 +1 17:27:46 Laura - I agree as well, @longdesc is a useful attribute in and of itself 17:28:32 Judy - we may need to have more rationale captured for the larger Working Group 17:28:49 Laura - could point to the spec, as it says that and contains examples 17:29:01 Judy - succinct list is helpful 17:29:28 all we can do is make a recommendation to the larger TF, and then WG 17:29:53 Janina - recap of the key points 17:30:28 Obsolete suggests that authors *STOP* using something and start using something else 17:30:36 this is not the message we want to be sending 17:31:37 Judy - want to also convey that J&J had a long discussion on next steps 17:32:08 not happy with unessecary delay, but understand Chairs need to walk through the steps 17:32:31 s/unessecary /unnecessary 17:33:01 Janina - we need to be sure that whatever the outcome of I204 that we clearly explain why the describedby approach does not work 17:33:10 +Q 17:33:12 s/discussion on next steps/discussion with CoChairs on next steps/ 17:33:42 s/l204/204/ 17:33:48 Janina - there seems to be some fallacy on this how will work 17:36:29 (JF explains the issue with "hidden" content versus off-screen content) 17:36:45 Judy - anyone have any further questions 17:36:59 Leif - we need to be sure to clearly explain why it doesn't work 17:37:13 Laura - this is going to be complicated to author 17:40:41 JF - this *does* work, but with lousy UI interaction 17:40:54 if you place tab-focusable content off screen it breaks UI behavior 17:41:10 so it *does* work, but it introducing contraventions to WCAG reqs 17:41:20 and so for that reason is unacceptable 17:41:57 Janina - Josh and James have begun an HTML5 / WCAG techniques Task Force (joint TF with PF) 17:42:12 JF - so this needs to be captured in that group as well 17:42:20 x/have begun/co-chair/ 17:42:32 s/have begun/co-chair/ 17:43:21 Janina - be sure to capture that a table with 6 rows, 6 columns would introduce 36 tab-stops off screen 17:43:28 zakim, close this item 17:43:28 I see a speaker queue remaining and respectfully decline to close this agendum, Judy 17:43:34 zakim, take up next item 17:43:34 I see a speaker queue remaining and respectfully decline to close this agendum, Judy 17:43:40 q? 17:43:44 ack j 17:43:47 zakim, take up next item 17:43:47 agendum 11. "other issues pending longdesc resolution" taken up [from Judy] 17:43:51 zakim, close this item 17:43:51 agendum 11 closed 17:43:52 I see 4 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is 17:43:52 12. input into meta-name generator re-proposal [from Judy] 17:44:22 zakim, who's here? 17:44:22 On the phone I see John_Foliot, ??P3, Judy, LeifHSilli, Laura_Carlson 17:44:23 On IRC I see laura, Judy, LeifHSilli, janina, JF, RRSAgent, Zakim 17:44:53 zakim, ??P3 is Janina 17:44:53 +Janina; got it 17:51:28 Judy: while your CP on poster was denied because of a dependency on longdesc, in principle, the idea of taking issues in sequence because of dependencies should be acceptable since the WG is already doing that, for instance with 204 and longdesc. So we will be requesting reconsideration of the denial. 17:53:49 JF- discussion of the dual problem of requiring longer text descriptions for both the MP4 and the JPG (w.r.t.