IRC log of gld on 2012-03-15

Timestamps are in UTC.

13:56:57 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #gld
13:56:57 [RRSAgent]
logging to
13:56:59 [trackbot]
RRSAgent, make logs world
13:56:59 [Zakim]
Zakim has joined #gld
13:57:01 [trackbot]
Zakim, this will be GLD
13:57:01 [Zakim]
ok, trackbot; I see T&S_GLDWG()10:00AM scheduled to start in 3 minutes
13:57:02 [trackbot]
Meeting: Government Linked Data Working Group Teleconference
13:57:02 [trackbot]
Date: 15 March 2012
13:57:12 [deirdrelee]
deirdrelee has joined #gld
13:57:26 [Zakim]
T&S_GLDWG()10:00AM has now started
13:57:34 [Zakim]
13:57:35 [Zakim]
+ +1.202.566.aaaa
13:57:59 [Zakim]
13:58:06 [bhyland]
zakim, aaaa is Mike_P
13:58:06 [Zakim]
+Mike_P; got it
13:59:15 [sandro]
sandro has changed the topic to: Government Linked Data (GLD) WG --
13:59:32 [PhilA2]
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14:00:11 [Zakim]
14:00:11 [bhyland]
Linked Data Glossary, see
14:00:19 [DaveReynolds]
zakim, IPcaller is me
14:00:19 [Zakim]
+DaveReynolds; got it
14:00:27 [Zakim]
14:00:32 [Zakim]
14:01:13 [boris]
boris has joined #gld
14:01:18 [bhyland]
zakim, IPcaller deirdrelee
14:01:18 [Zakim]
I don't understand 'IPcaller deirdrelee', bhyland
14:01:26 [boris]
zakim, code?
14:01:26 [Zakim]
the conference code is 45394 (tel:+1.617.761.6200, boris
14:01:28 [Mike_Pendleton]
Mike_Pendleton has joined #gld
14:01:30 [bhyland]
zakim, IPcaller is deirdrelee
14:01:30 [Zakim]
+deirdrelee; got it
14:01:35 [Zakim]
14:01:38 [fadmaa]
fadmaa has joined #gld
14:01:38 [bhyland]
zakim, who is on the call?
14:01:38 [Zakim]
On the phone I see bhyland, Mike_P, sandro, DaveReynolds, [LC], deirdrelee, fadmaa
14:02:04 [Zakim]
14:02:10 [luis_bermudez]
luis_bermudez has joined #gld
14:02:21 [Zakim]
14:02:22 [olyerickson]
??p21 is me
14:02:27 [martin]
zakim, ??P24 is me
14:02:29 [luis_bermudez]
Hi. I will connect via phone in 10 min
14:02:32 [fadmaa]
zakim, mute me
14:02:36 [Zakim]
+martin; got it
14:02:37 [Zakim]
+ +1.202.691.aabb
14:02:37 [olyerickson]
zqakim, ??p21 is me.
14:02:39 [Zakim]
14:02:42 [martin]
zakim, mute me
14:02:44 [Zakim]
fadmaa should now be muted
14:02:47 [olyerickson]
zakim, ?p21 is me.
14:02:49 [boris]
zakim, ??P6 is boris
14:02:57 [Zakim]
martin should now be muted
14:03:01 [Zakim]
sorry, olyerickson, I do not recognize a party named '?p21'
14:03:02 [olyerickson]
zakim, ??p21 is me.
14:03:06 [Zakim]
I already had ??P6 as Plh, boris
14:03:11 [bhyland]
scribe: DaveReynolds
14:03:18 [Zakim]
+olyerickson; got it
14:03:22 [DaveReynolds]
scribenick: DaveReynolds
14:03:29 [bhyland]
14:03:45 [Zakim]
14:03:47 [PhilA2]
zakim, IPcaller is me
14:03:50 [bhyland]
zakim, who is on the call?
14:03:52 [Zakim]
+PhilA2; got it
14:03:53 [Zakim]
On the phone I see bhyland, Mike_P, sandro, DaveReynolds, [LC], deirdrelee, fadmaa (muted), olyerickson, martin (muted), +1.202.691.aabb, ??P26, PhilA2
14:04:10 [bhyland]
zakim, aabb is DanG
14:04:10 [Zakim]
+DanG; got it
14:04:30 [bhyland]
zakim, P26 is boris
14:04:30 [Zakim]
sorry, bhyland, I do not recognize a party named 'P26'
14:04:32 [boris]
zakim, ??P6 IS BORIS
14:04:32 [Zakim]
I already had ??P6 as Plh, boris
14:04:38 [boris]
zakim, ??P6 is boris
14:04:38 [Zakim]
I already had ??P6 as Plh, boris
14:04:48 [Zakim]
14:05:01 [PhilA2]
zakim, ??P26 is Boris
14:05:01 [Zakim]
+Boris; got it
14:05:02 [George]
George has joined #gld
14:05:43 [gatemezi]
gatemezi has joined #gld
14:05:52 [Zakim]
+ +
14:06:04 [bhyland]
Propose to accept minutes:
14:06:16 [tinagheen]
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14:06:37 [boris]
14:06:39 [Zakim]
14:06:39 [olyerickson]
+1 accept minutes
14:06:46 [Zakim]
14:06:53 [gatemezi]
+1 accept minutes
14:06:56 [fadmaa]
14:07:03 [DanG]
14:07:07 [Biplav]
Biplav has joined #gld
14:07:58 [Zakim]
14:08:08 [DaveReynolds]
bhyland: requested people, dcat, org, data cube to first pass WD
14:08:18 [PhilA2]
Terrific news! Well done to the folk who've worked hard on those
14:08:27 [Zakim]
14:08:44 [gatemezi]
Zakim, who is here?
14:08:44 [Zakim]
On the phone I see bhyland, Mike_P, sandro, DaveReynolds, [LC], deirdrelee, fadmaa (muted), olyerickson, martin (muted), DanG, Boris, PhilA2, George_Thomas, +
14:08:47 [Zakim]
On IRC I see Biplav, tinagheen, gatemezi, luis_bermudez, fadmaa, Mike_Pendleton, boris, PhilA2, deirdrelee, Zakim, RRSAgent, DanG, martin, DaveReynolds, MacTed, bhyland,
14:08:47 [Zakim]
... olyerickson, trackbot, sandro
14:09:10 [Zakim]
14:09:37 [olyerickson]
zakim, who is on the phone.
14:09:37 [Zakim]
I don't understand 'who is on the phone', olyerickson
14:09:56 [PhilA2]
Let me start with
14:10:01 [DaveReynolds]
topic: PhilA update on ADMS and ISA vocabs
14:10:03 [bhyland]
Topic: Update on the ADMS spec and ISA eGov core vocabs
14:10:11 [tinagheen]
Zakim, [LC] is me
14:10:11 [Zakim]
+tinagheen; got it
14:10:48 [bhyland]
chair: GeorgeThomas
14:11:22 [DaveReynolds]
PhilA2: ISA producing three core vocabs.
14:11:27 [Zakim]
14:11:37 [DaveReynolds]
PhilA2: People - soley a natural person (not businesses-as-people etc)
14:11:53 [DaveReynolds]
PhilA2: business - to describe legal entities, subsets of organizations
14:12:10 [DaveReynolds]
PhilA2: location - address information, intended to be INSPIRE compliant
14:13:03 [DaveReynolds]
PhilA2: ISA person can be used as a subset of W3C people vocab
14:13:26 [DaveReynolds]
PhilA2: ISA business not directly connected to org (though compatible?)
14:13:59 [DaveReynolds]
PhilA2: Fourth vocab. ADMS. Asset Descriptions Metadata Schema.
14:15:10 [DaveReynolds]
PhilA2: It is relevant for GLD. Government institutions are publishing assets like code lists, standards, vocabs. ADMS is for describing those (c.f. DCAT for describing datasets themselves).
14:15:13 [George]
George has joined #gld
14:15:27 [George]
zakim, who is here?
14:15:27 [Zakim]
On the phone I see bhyland, Mike_P, sandro, DaveReynolds, tinagheen, deirdrelee, fadmaa (muted), olyerickson, martin (muted), DanG, Boris, PhilA2, George_Thomas, +,
14:15:27 [PhilA2]
14:15:30 [Zakim]
... gatemezi, lbermudez
14:15:30 [Zakim]
On IRC I see George, Biplav, tinagheen, gatemezi, luis_bermudez, fadmaa, Mike_Pendleton, boris, PhilA2, deirdrelee, Zakim, RRSAgent, DanG, martin, DaveReynolds, MacTed, bhyland,
14:15:31 [Zakim]
... olyerickson, trackbot, sandro
14:15:33 [DaveReynolds]
PhilA2: ADMS being implemented by joinup platform
14:15:47 [PhilA2]
14:15:49 [DaveReynolds]
PhilA2: ADMS also being used by Danish portal
14:15:52 [George]
14:16:20 [DaveReynolds]
PhilA2: W3C will also use AMDS for TR descriptions
14:18:03 [DaveReynolds]
PhilA2: Now suggesting that GLD take on all four of the vocabularies.
14:18:45 [DaveReynolds]
PhilA2: All of them match existing GLD charter.
14:20:22 [DaveReynolds]
PhilA2: Are being asked to take result of EU review process as FPWD-ready material. But are, of course, free to then extend and improve before final publication.
14:20:54 [George]
14:21:05 [DaveReynolds]
PhilA2: All four are intended to ready end of March for targetted FPWD publication in May.
14:21:10 [bhyland]
14:22:13 [DaveReynolds]
PhilA2: There is a 5th vocab, for description of open source software. Not being brought to GLD at this time (outside of charter)
14:23:04 [DaveReynolds]
PhilA2: It is called RADion - Repository Assets Description
14:23:15 [George]
ack bhyland
14:23:18 [DaveReynolds]
PhilA2 - very high level, DCAT could be seen as specialization of it (?)
14:24:39 [PhilA2]
-> RADion details
14:25:16 [DaveReynolds]
bhyland: a lot of the heavy lifting has been done on these vocabs, it is a funded effort, they are well documented. Encourages GLD folks to look them and voice opinions on them.
14:25:37 [olyerickson]
I haven't see region-specific in things I've looked at
14:25:52 [DaveReynolds]
bhyland: especially - they should be checked for any region-specific aspects
14:26:14 [olyerickson]
We've found core business vocab interesting, and will be looking at location at people as well
14:26:20 [George]
14:26:58 [olyerickson]
ADMS is harder to figure out application scope. I get DCAT (obviously), I don't quite get use cases for ADMS
14:27:41 [olyerickson]
Could PhilA elaborate on ADMS use case (or two)
14:27:53 [DaveReynolds]
sandro: asks about timeline guidance for reviewing the vocabs
14:28:06 [bhyland]
Note: ADMC Working Group list, see
14:28:12 [bhyland]
14:28:32 [DaveReynolds]
PhilA2: targeting completion 1 week on Friday
14:29:16 [PhilA2]
14:29:24 [DaveReynolds]
PhilA2: Aiming that ADMS 1.0 becomes FPWD as is because it is already being implemented. So early identification of major issues would be important.
14:30:31 [DaveReynolds]
PhilA2: Feels that FPWD should separate core model from implementation guidance, which are merged in ADMS 0.9/1.0
14:30:46 [Zakim]
14:30:51 [Zakim]
+ +1.443.569.aadd
14:30:51 [bhyland]
@PhilA, should we be looking at section 5.2 ADMS Core Elements in
14:30:55 [DaveReynolds]
PhilA2: Some issues around text v. strings and flagging of machine translation
14:31:07 [DanG]
This problem was solved in ISO/IEC 19773
14:31:12 [ZacharyWhitley]
ZacharyWhitley has joined #gld
14:31:52 [fadmaa]
I am happy to write a comment to the ADMS
14:31:53 [DanG]
Sorry 19773 is called Metadata Modules
14:31:55 [bhyland]
14:32:11 [DaveReynolds]
PhilA2: In particular some of the implementation guide is Europe specific
14:32:13 [George]
ack bhyland
14:32:37 [Zakim]
14:33:14 [PhilA2]
14:33:38 [PhilA2]
ADMS Namespace doc
14:35:27 [PhilA2]
14:36:25 [DaveReynolds]
PhilA2: [Clarifying ADMS use cases ...] Joinup is an example use. It provides "semantic assets" - includes vocabularies, code lists, standards. Provides discovery portal for public sector employees to find such assets.
14:37:16 [DaveReynolds]
PhilA2: ADMS a vocab for describing these assets. Such an asset is different from a dataset.
14:37:47 [PhilA2]
14:38:03 [George]
14:38:21 [DaveReynolds]
q+, to ask about registry v. repository
14:38:53 [DaveReynolds]
q+ to ask about registry v. repository
14:38:55 [olyerickson]
PhilA this actually is helpful...thanks...
14:39:17 [olyerickson]
14:39:23 [George]
14:39:28 [George]
ack DaveReynolds
14:39:28 [Zakim]
DaveReynolds, you wanted to ask about registry v. repository
14:39:59 [olyerickson]
PhilA described some very futurey concepts IMHO...
14:40:04 [DanG]
why is geography separated from SKOS concept scheme and concepts?
14:40:54 [Zakim]
14:41:15 [DaveReynolds]
PhilA2: is intended to have a registry aspect, has some notion of status.
14:41:25 [DanG]
DanG has left #gld
14:42:36 [DanG]
DanG has joined #gld
14:42:37 [DaveReynolds]
PhilA2: but doesn't have a notion of endorsement by a particular community
14:43:15 [George]
14:44:01 [DaveReynolds]
DanG: asks why geographic coverage is separated from SKOS concept schemes. Typically geo areas are concept schemes and should be handled uniformly.
14:45:06 [olyerickson]
I need DanG to give an example
14:45:12 [DaveReynolds]
PhilA2: previously had a notion of "domain". Could generalize to allow SKOS concepts to be used there.
14:45:18 [gatemezi]
In Geonames, codes are skos:Concept
14:46:46 [DaveReynolds]
PhilA2: question to group, is it OK to publish as FPWD before sorting issues such as uniform use of concept schemes.
14:47:13 [gatemezi]
link Geonames:
14:47:25 [DaveReynolds]
DanG: preference, if group agrees then make changes first before FPWD publication.
14:47:57 [George]
14:48:13 [olyerickson]
request that DanG elaborate on these issues in "ISSUES"
14:49:38 [DaveReynolds]
DanG: points out ISO 19773 has a approach to data types for multi-text, multi-string, multi-data. Type includes both datum and additional information (e.g. language, cultural identifiers).
14:49:49 [DaveReynolds]
s/has a/has an/
14:50:53 [olyerickson]
14:51:05 [DaveReynolds]
george: suggests capturing these on issues list
14:52:48 [DaveReynolds]
PhilA2: [Clarifying relationship of OSS vocab to DOAP] Interest is from UK and Spanish gov. If GLD feels it is relevant it *could* could to encompass that as well. In RADion there is a link to project which is doap:Project.
14:53:37 [Zakim]
- +
14:54:01 [bhyland]
14:54:01 [George]
14:54:07 [George]
ack bhyland
14:54:10 [olyerickson]
14:54:11 [George]
ack bhyland
14:54:58 [DaveReynolds]
bhyland: reluctant to to cover OSS area as well, seems beyond GLD charter.
14:55:02 [DaveReynolds]
PhilA2: agreed
14:55:56 [olyerickson]
"GLD recommends stakeholder consider any and all vocabularies of potential interest, now and in the future..."
14:56:43 [olyerickson]
Thanks PhilA!
14:56:44 [DaveReynolds]
PhilA2: appreciates GLD taking on the vocabs that it is adopting
14:57:03 [tinagheen]
tinagheen has joined #gld
14:57:54 [DaveReynolds]
topic: DCAT
14:58:06 [fadmaa]
Zakim, unmute me
14:58:06 [Zakim]
fadmaa should no longer be muted
14:59:02 [bhyland]
14:59:22 [bhyland]
We're all looking at:
14:59:27 [bhyland]
(or should be ..)
14:59:47 [DaveReynolds]
fadmaa: issues 2,3 are easy and should be able to get consensus. Issue 9 is much the same as 7 and 8.
15:00:32 [DaveReynolds]
olyerickson: issue 2,3 trivial things left to close off.
15:02:44 [DaveReynolds]
bhyland: some issues are raised but not necessarily accept as issues to be addressed (i.e. OPEN)
15:02:46 [George]
15:02:53 [DaveReynolds]
15:03:38 [DaveReynolds]
olyerickson: issue 2 resulted in dct:language being added (so solved?)
15:04:15 [bhyland]
@George, perhaps you should move some of these to OPEN status and some to CLOSED if they've been addressed, with comment …
15:04:55 [DaveReynolds]
george: trying to get clarify on what the actual issue is so can be clear on what are solved, what are unclear, what area ctionable.
15:05:02 [DaveReynolds]
s/area /are a/
15:05:47 [DaveReynolds]
olyerickson: issue 2 - added dct:language at both levels
15:06:24 [DaveReynolds]
olyerickson: issue 3 - about time/date format, list agreed to prefer xsd:dateTime, but stakeholders wanted other forms, discussion still open
15:07:06 [DaveReynolds]
action: olyerickson to annotate and update issues 2, 3 on tracker
15:07:07 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-58 - Annotate and update issues 2, 3 on tracker [on John Erickson - due 2012-03-22].
15:07:37 [PhilA2]
I'll make a proposal by mail to put ISSUE-3 to bed - I don't think it's a big issue and we know how to handle it
15:08:31 [DaveReynolds]
fadmaa: question is whether dct:Distribution needed (ans: yes), are subsclasses needed (may not be fully representative)
15:09:09 [DaveReynolds]
fadmaa: want to differentiate between direct download links and web pages which eventually lead to download
15:09:51 [fadmaa]
15:10:12 [Zakim]
15:10:15 [PhilA2]
George: Is that clearer, John?
15:10:21 [PhilA2]
olyerickson: Yes, that helps
15:10:57 [PhilA2]
George: So it looks like we can open actions 7, 8 and 9 and then come to a resolution?
15:11:29 [PhilA2]
olyerickson: I think we need to create actions on those of us owning DCAT and come up with a specific alternative if that can be done
15:11:40 [PhilA2]
... it's a raesonable issue that Martin is raising
15:11:52 [PhilA2]
... we need to put something concrete before the GLD WG
15:12:04 [gatemezi]
+ 1 to Fadi point
15:12:08 [PhilA2]
fadmaa: So we should put specific proposals on the ML?
15:12:13 [martin]
15:12:19 [PhilA2]
George: That sounds good - it can go on next weeks agenda
15:12:24 [bhyland]
15:12:26 [PhilA2]
scribe: PhilA2
15:12:36 [boris]
+1 to mark issues as open
15:12:59 [PhilA2]
action: Fadi Maali to address issues 7 - 9 on the mailing list
15:12:59 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-59 - Maali to address issues 7 - 9 on the mailing list [on Fadi Maali - due 2012-03-22].
15:13:48 [PhilA2]
topic: People
15:13:54 [fadmaa]
Zakim, mute me
15:13:54 [Zakim]
fadmaa should now be muted
15:15:10 [George]
PhilA2: patronymic name
15:15:31 [George]
... include Titles, Prefixes, etc.?
15:15:55 [George]
... no rules - but pushed for patronymic names
15:16:09 [George]
... and 'alternative' name (which isn't foaf:nick)
15:16:24 [Zakim]
15:16:32 [DaveReynolds]
zakim, IPcaller.a is me
15:16:32 [Zakim]
+DaveReynolds; got it
15:16:44 [olyerickson]
+1 to formal alternativeName... alternative right now is skos:prefLabel, skos:altLabel
15:17:05 [PhilA2]
George: Let's look at Best Prac for vocabulary selection
15:17:16 [PhilA2]
... I noticed some mention of accidental subsumption
15:17:34 [PhilA2]
... does anyone else think this is a useful addition to the doc?
15:18:14 [PhilA2]
George: If my hospital subject were to use a vCard address, it would be subsumed as a type vCard object
15:18:30 [PhilA2]
... this presrnts itself as a problem to possible users
15:18:42 [PhilA2]
George: LD COmmunity is not very oriented towards this effect
15:18:54 [boris]
15:19:15 [DaveReynolds]
scribe: DaveReynolds
15:19:40 [DaveReynolds]
PhilA2: frequently find want to reuse a property but domain/range constraints on it cause unintended consequences
15:20:33 [DaveReynolds]
PhilA2: some LD users work round that by separating inferences from direct assertions, pragmatics
15:20:34 [George]
ack boris
15:20:55 [olyerickson]
Linked Data is not about creating a perfect organization of knowledge
15:21:05 [DaveReynolds]
boris: worth mentioning in Best Practice vocab section
15:22:16 [bhyland]
Sounds like we need a good glossary :-)
15:22:20 [DaveReynolds]
george: also some need for more clarity of description on "products" in the procurement section, e.g. Linked Data Server
15:22:21 [boris]
15:22:24 [bhyland]
nice segway
15:22:32 [Mike_Pendleton]
agreed George
15:22:50 [bhyland]
Topic: LD Glossary see
15:23:39 [PhilA2]
q+ to talk about a linked data server
15:23:43 [DaveReynolds]
bhyland: would like Best Practices etc to link to glossary. New entries, improved descriptions welcome.
15:24:10 [George]
ack PhilA2
15:24:16 [George]
ack PhilA2
15:24:50 [olyerickson]
PhilA mentions LD Patterns WG
15:24:52 [DaveReynolds]
PhilA2: asks if group is aware of Linked Data platform, now "patterns", working group
15:25:08 [George]
15:25:13 [George]
ack PhilA
15:25:13 [Zakim]
PhilA, you wanted to talk about a linked data server
15:25:29 [DaveReynolds]
PhilA2: relevant to glossary definition of e.g. Linked Data Server
15:26:25 [boris]
15:26:30 [PhilA2]
-> Using Open data
15:27:23 [DaveReynolds]
PhilA2: workshop in June in Brussels - about *using* open data
15:27:54 [DaveReynolds]
PhilA2: special focus on policy modelling
15:27:57 [bhyland]
15:28:21 [George]
ack bhyland
15:29:34 [DaveReynolds]
bhyland: asks US members to check travel possibilities (for TPAC?)
15:30:20 [DaveReynolds]
bhyland: to check of a GLD f2f is possible during TPAC
15:30:41 [gatemezi]
15:30:56 [Zakim]
15:31:01 [PhilA2]
regrets for next week
15:31:09 [Zakim]
15:31:13 [DaveReynolds]
RRSAgent, set logs world-visible
15:31:14 [Zakim]
15:31:14 [Zakim]
15:31:15 [Zakim]
15:31:15 [Zakim]
15:31:16 [Zakim]
15:31:19 [Zakim]
- +1.443.569.aadd
15:31:21 [Zakim]
15:31:21 [DaveReynolds]
RRSAgent, generate minutes
15:31:21 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate DaveReynolds
15:31:22 [Zakim]
15:31:27 [Zakim]
15:31:29 [bhyland]
Thanks DaveReynolds for scribing. Do you need any help publishing minutes or are you fine?
15:31:30 [Zakim]
15:31:31 [Zakim]
15:31:32 [PhilA2]
PhilA2 has left #gld
15:31:39 [Zakim]
15:31:53 [DaveReynolds]
bhyland: not sure, working on it now, process has changed from last time I did this
15:31:58 [bhyland]
@DaveReynolds, see
15:32:21 [bhyland]
if you have any issues, let me know & I'll help ...
15:32:52 [DaveReynolds]
Previously scribe did clean up of minues, do we not do that now?
15:33:14 [bhyland]
yes, you can do that
15:33:31 [George]
but we often go straight out without
15:33:36 [George]
your call
15:33:55 [DaveReynolds]
OK, thanks. I'll check through to if anything needs clean up otherwise just publish raw.
15:33:57 [bhyland]
I look over the minutes before publishing
15:34:02 [bhyland]
15:36:40 [Zakim]
disconnecting the lone participant, DaveReynolds, in T&S_GLDWG()10:00AM
15:36:42 [Zakim]
T&S_GLDWG()10:00AM has ended
15:36:42 [Zakim]
Attendees were bhyland, +1.202.566.aaaa, sandro, Mike_P, DaveReynolds, deirdrelee, fadmaa, martin, +1.202.691.aabb, olyerickson, PhilA2, DanG, George_Thomas, Boris,
15:36:42 [Zakim]
... +, gatemezi, tinagheen, lbermudez, +1.443.569.aadd, [IPcaller]
15:37:22 [martin]
martin has left #gld
15:43:56 [DaveReynolds]
bhyland: sandro: I have chatlog copy on but wiki is not letting me login to edit them. No error message. I can log in and change rest of wiki fine.
15:45:00 [sandro]
DaveReynolds, weird....! try shift-refresh? wiki caching is sometimes broken....
15:45:51 [DaveReynolds]
sandro: ah, thanks, should have tried that!
15:46:15 [sandro]
Most of the web works well enough these days, but now + wikis. :-(
15:46:27 [sandro]
(.... well enough that we forget about caching)
15:46:34 [sandro]
15:46:53 [DaveReynolds]
16:09:35 [olyerickson]
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16:39:03 [DaveReynolds]
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17:48:38 [Zakim]
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