14:29:47 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #rd
14:29:47 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2012/03/14-rd-irc
14:29:49 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world
14:29:49 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #rd
14:29:51 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be 7394
14:29:52 <trackbot> Meeting: Research and Development Working Group Teleconference
14:29:52 <trackbot> Date: 14 March 2012
14:29:52 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see WAI_RDWG()10:30AM scheduled to start in 1 minute
14:30:15 <sharper> zakim, agenda?
14:30:15 <Zakim> I see nothing on the agenda
14:30:19 <sharper> Chair: Harper_Simon
14:30:19 <sharper> Agenda+ Welcome & Logistics (Regrets, Agenda Requests, Comments) 
14:30:20 <Yehya> Yehya has joined #rd
14:31:03 <sharper> Agenda+ Changes to Pre-Call http://www.w3.org/WAI/RD/wiki/Talk:Mobile_Pre_CFP
14:31:24 <sharper> Agenda+ Copyright / Credit / Citations - discussion.
14:31:24 <sharper> Agenda+ Mobile Full Call
14:31:25 <sharper> Agenda+ Timelines / Schedule to 30th June 2013
14:31:25 <sharper> Agenda+ RDWG Incubator
14:31:25 <sharper> Agenda+ Current W3C Note Status
14:31:25 <sharper> Agenda+ Any Other Business
14:31:41 <sharper> zakim, save agenda
14:31:47 <Zakim> ok, sharper, the agenda has been written to http://www.w3.org/2012/03/14-rd-agenda.rdf
14:31:47 <sharper> zakim, take up item 1
14:31:49 <Zakim> agendum 1. "Welcome & Logistics (Regrets, Agenda Requests, Comments)" taken up [from sharper]
14:31:49 <Zakim> WAI_RDWG()10:30AM has now started
14:31:53 <Zakim> +Yehya
14:31:56 <Zakim> +??P2
14:32:05 <sharper> present+ Harper_Simon
14:32:06 <vivienne> zakim, ??P2 is me
14:32:06 <Zakim> +vivienne; got it
14:32:07 <shadi> zakim, code?
14:32:07 <Zakim> the conference code is 7394 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), shadi
14:32:16 <sharper> regrets+ McCathieNevile_Charles
14:33:05 <Zakim> +??P5
14:33:14 <sharper> zakim, ??P5 is sharper
14:33:14 <Zakim> +sharper; got it
14:33:33 <Zakim> +Shadi
14:34:17 <markel> markel has joined #rd
14:34:46 <yeliz> yeliz has joined #rd
14:35:37 <Zakim> +??P7
14:35:45 <vivienne> zakim, mute me
14:35:45 <Zakim> vivienne should now be muted
14:36:04 <shadi> scribe: Yehya
14:36:09 <giorgio> giorgio has joined #rd
14:36:11 <Zakim> +??P8
14:36:17 <yeliz> zakim, ??P8 is yeliz
14:36:17 <Zakim> +yeliz; got it
14:36:24 <yeliz> zakim, mute me
14:36:24 <Zakim> yeliz should now be muted
14:36:25 <markel> zakim ??P7 is markel
14:36:39 <markel> zakim, ??P7 is markel
14:36:39 <Zakim> +markel; got it
14:37:05 <Yehya> test
14:37:55 <shadi> zakim, mute me
14:37:55 <Zakim> Shadi should now be muted
14:38:02 <Zakim> +??P10
14:38:37 <giorgio> zakim, ??p10 is giorgio
14:38:37 <Zakim> +giorgio; got it
14:38:46 <Yehya> Simone: started with item 1
14:38:49 <sharper> zakim, close item 1
14:38:49 <Zakim> agendum 1, Welcome & Logistics (Regrets, Agenda Requests, Comments), closed
14:38:49 <sharper> zakim, take up item 2
14:38:51 <Zakim> I see 7 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
14:38:51 <Zakim> 2. Changes to Pre-Call http://www.w3.org/WAI/RD/wiki/Talk:Mobile_Pre_CFP [from sharper]
14:38:51 <Zakim> agendum 2. "Changes to Pre-Call http://www.w3.org/WAI/RD/wiki/Talk:Mobile_Pre_CFP" taken up [from sharper]
14:39:26 <Yehya> simone: changed the agenda 
14:39:39 <shadi> s/simone/simon
14:40:26 <shadi> ack me
14:40:27 <Yehya> Simone: start with mobile pre call
14:40:49 <Peter> Peter has joined #rd
14:41:51 <Yehya> Shadi: comments we reeived. The text of the call is not well enough according to development in the field. There is alot of work happening in the field. Our message should acknowledge that. Not to do as starting from zero.
14:41:53 <shadi> s/simone/simon
14:42:29 <Zakim> +??P14
14:42:42 <Peter_Thiessen> Zakim, ??P14 is me
14:42:42 <Zakim> +Peter_Thiessen; got it
14:42:51 <Peter_Thiessen> Zakim, mute me
14:42:51 <Zakim> Peter_Thiessen should now be muted
14:43:27 <Yehya> Shadi: second comment: envolvement of people with disabilities. This is beyoned our responsibility. This is unnfortunately common.
14:43:53 <Yehya> Shadi: how we will address the two coments in an appropriate way?
14:43:57 <shadi> zakim, mute me
14:43:57 <Zakim> Shadi should now be muted
14:44:16 <Peter_Thiessen> (catching up now)
14:44:41 <Peter_Thiessen> +1
14:44:42 <Zakim> -giorgio
14:44:43 <Yehya> +
14:44:45 <vivienne> having a read first
14:44:46 <Yehya> +1
14:44:48 <markel> +1
14:44:52 <shadi> s/This is beyoned our responsibility/This is an issue beyond the scope of this group but a responsibility for us to involve people with disabilities
14:45:13 <vivienne> +1
14:45:15 <yeliz> zakim, unmute yeliz
14:45:15 <Zakim> yeliz should no longer be muted
14:46:26 <Zakim> +??P10
14:46:27 <shadi> q+
14:46:40 <sharper> ack shad
14:46:41 <shadi> zakim, ??p10 is giorgio
14:46:41 <Zakim> +giorgio; got it
14:46:47 <Peter_Thiessen> (had the same confusion as Yeliz about the pre_call)
14:46:55 <Yehya> Yeliz: regarding Comment1: This is a pre call and it is very short to reference existing work. In the extended version will be a lot of refernces. Comments 2: I understand it but I do not know how to involve PwD
14:47:26 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
14:48:39 <Yehya> Shadi: Response of Yeliz to the first comment: I agree with the rational, but we need only a small change with few sentences.
14:49:14 <Peter_Thiessen> q+
14:50:10 <giorgio> I agree with yeliz, on keeping it open
14:50:51 <Yehya> Yeliz: pre call will be very short. In the full call the related work should be considered. Regarding the second comment, accessibility is a major isssue and not only regarding PwD. I propose to keep it open for every body. Covering People in their daily lifes. This implies larger audience
14:51:01 <Peter_Thiessen> (np :)
14:51:10 <giorgio> Among the two options I would go for "We invite extended research abstracts of no more than 1000 words."
14:51:40 <yeliz> Shadi, I am OK with the change
14:51:47 <yeliz> I think it's good
14:51:55 <Yehya> Shadi: Response: First point, even if it is a pre call, we should clraify this very short even their with a small tweak.
14:52:40 <yeliz> I agree there are two different issues
14:52:58 <giorgio> I keep loosing the audio! sorry: I'll have to rely on the written text..
14:52:59 <Yehya> Shadi: Involving PwD: The definition of accessibility there are different opinions. The other issue how to involve PwD. 
14:53:05 <shadi> zakim, mute me
14:53:05 <Zakim> Shadi should now be muted
14:53:25 <yeliz> zakim, unmute yeliz
14:53:25 <Zakim> yeliz was not muted, yeliz
14:53:26 <Yehya> Simone: what changes would you like to see on the paragraph?
14:53:49 <Peter_Thiessen> Are we still referring to this link for the pre-call? : http://www.w3.org/WAI/RD/wiki/Mobile_Pre_CFP
14:55:07 <Yehya> Yeliz: the wording can be changed - Talking about broader accessibility. The other thing about challenges of PwD to use mobile systems
14:55:16 <Peter_Thiessen> ack me
14:55:18 <sharper> ack p
14:55:24 <yeliz> zakim, mute yeliz
14:55:24 <Zakim> yeliz should now be muted
14:55:38 <shadi> q+ to talk about the scope of accessibility (the big white elephant in the room)
14:56:12 <Zakim> -giorgio
14:56:33 <Zakim> +??P10
14:56:43 <giorgio> zakim, ??P10 is giorgio
14:56:43 <Zakim> +giorgio; got it
14:56:48 <Yehya> Peter: Comment 1: agree with shadi we can have a quick change. Second thing either one sound specific, 
14:56:51 <Peter_Thiessen> Zakim, mute me
14:56:51 <Zakim> Peter_Thiessen should now be muted
14:57:33 <vivienne> Im okay with Shadi's suggested changes
14:57:50 <Yehya> Simone: asked for further comments
14:58:04 <shadi> s/Simone/Simon
14:58:45 <shadi> q-
14:59:04 <shadi> [[WAI: Strategies, guidelines, resources to make the Web accessible to people with disabilities]]
14:59:50 <shadi> q+ to say that *primary focus* on disability should not exclude other groups
15:00:03 <Peter_Thiessen> agree with Simon about WAI and priorities and definition for PwD ..
15:00:16 <sharper> ack sh
15:00:16 <Zakim> shadi, you wanted to say that *primary focus* on disability should not exclude other groups
15:00:20 <shadi> ack me
15:00:24 <Yehya> Simon: I discussed with Shadi about the definition of accessibility. WAI has a specific understanding about this. As we are in WAI we should consider there understanding. In future calls we may elabortae more on this issue. I propose to keep the paragraph as it is
15:02:15 <Zakim> -giorgio
15:02:50 <Zakim> +??P38
15:03:05 <giorgio> zakim, ??p38 is giorgio
15:03:05 <Zakim> +giorgio; got it
15:03:14 <yeliz> zakim, mute yeliz
15:03:14 <Zakim> yeliz was already muted, yeliz
15:03:52 <yeliz> I understand this, I think it makes sense to make the call inline with the WAI's goals as RDWG is part WAI group
15:04:05 <Yehya> Shadi: about WAI's mission and understanding. Make the web accessibile for PwD. Despite the focus of WAI we should exclude other groups. The primary focus is on PwD. The term inclusion means the involvement of groups e.g. low income, low bandwidth. We do not have a boarder in our motivation. We consider as well the universal web available to everybody. Caution should be payed not to losse the focus on PwD
15:04:08 <shadi> zakim, mute me
15:04:08 <Zakim> Shadi should now be muted
15:04:12 <yeliz> As I said earlier, we can update this as suggested
15:04:32 <shadi> s/we should exclude/we should not exclude
15:04:33 <yeliz> It's just I personally support wider scope for accesibility
15:04:46 <Yehya> Simon: Accessibility in this way can not cover discrimination
15:04:57 <yeliz> However, I am OK with this change
15:05:09 <giorgio> ok for me
15:05:32 <shadi> zakim, who is on the phone?
15:05:32 <Zakim> On the phone I see vivienne (muted), Yehya, sharper, Shadi (muted), markel, yeliz (muted), Peter_Thiessen (muted), [IPcaller], giorgio
15:05:41 <shadi> zakim, ipcaller is Joshue
15:05:41 <Zakim> +Joshue; got it
15:06:24 <Yehya> Giorgio: I agree with Shadi. Extending the focus benifits all groups. 
15:06:37 <shadi> s/Giorgio:/Joshue:
15:06:46 <giorgio> yehia: that was josh, not giogio
15:06:52 <Peter_Thiessen> +1  (1st paragraph, change looks good etc.)
15:06:55 <yeliz> +1
15:06:57 <vivienne> +1
15:06:59 <markel> +1 first p
15:06:59 <giorgio> +1
15:07:04 <Yehya> +1
15:07:06 <shadi> s/Extending the focus/Keeping the focus
15:07:29 <shadi> ack me
15:08:10 <shadi> zakim, mute me
15:08:10 <Zakim> Shadi should now be muted
15:08:11 <Yehya> Simon: resolution of this issue accepted by all presnt persons
15:08:14 <sharper> RESOLVED: Accept changes to Intro para
15:08:16 <Zakim> -giorgio
15:08:40 <Peter_Thiessen> Yup copy and paste :)
15:08:59 <shadi> Initial text: [[We invite extended research abstracts of no more than 1000 words from academia, industry, and others with interest in website accessibility metrics and quality assurance.]]
15:09:09 <Zakim> +??P38
15:09:13 <Yehya> Simon: As next Suggested changes from the coordination group 
15:09:17 <shadi> Suggested change: [[We invite extended research abstracts of no more than 1000 words from research, industry, people with disabilities, and others with interest in mobile web accessibility.]]
15:09:24 <giorgio> zakim, ??p38 is giorgio
15:09:24 <Zakim> +giorgio; got it
15:09:57 <markel> it's also obvious for me
15:10:00 <shadi> [[We invite extended research abstracts of no more than 1000 words.
15:10:00 <shadi> OR
15:10:00 <shadi> We invite extended research abstracts of no more than 1000 words from anyone with interest in mobile web accessibility. ]]
15:10:04 <Yehya> Simon: SC will make its decision baesd on that
15:10:04 <yeliz> I vote for the first version
15:10:24 <Zakim> -Joshue
15:10:47 <yeliz> I mean I vote for "We invite extended research abstracts of no more than 1000 words."
15:10:49 <Yehya> Simon: 3 different contributions : Voting  
15:10:53 <giorgio> I see only two options.
15:11:09 <markel> I go for "We invite extended research abstracts of no more than 1000 words."
15:11:11 <giorgio> ohh, ok.
15:11:15 <shadi> ack me
15:11:23 <shadi> <del> <ins>
15:11:36 <shadi> ack me
15:11:42 <shadi> zakim, mute me
15:11:42 <Zakim> Shadi should now be muted
15:11:50 <Peter_Thiessen> vote, Option 3 ("We invite extended research abstracts of no more than 1000 words. We encourage ...")
15:11:50 <vivienne> I vote for just saying no more than extended research abstracts of no more than 1000 words.  The rest of the paragraph says that they need to be scientifically sound, so that should rule out inappropriate submissions.
15:11:50 <giorgio> I go for "We invite extended research abstracts of no more than 1000 words."
15:12:13 <shadi> ack me
15:12:50 <shadi> zakim, mute me
15:12:50 <Zakim> Shadi should now be muted
15:12:57 <shadi> ack me
15:13:22 <yeliz> zakim, mute yeliz
15:13:24 <Zakim> yeliz was already muted, yeliz
15:13:32 <sharper> RESOLVED: We invite extended research abstracts of no more than 1000 words.
15:13:40 <shadi> q+ to ask about updated timeline given the delay
15:13:46 <shadi> ack me
15:13:46 <Zakim> shadi, you wanted to ask about updated timeline given the delay
15:14:04 <Peter_Thiessen> I'll go ahead and make the wiki change (option 3).
15:14:18 <Yehya> Shadi: a diffferent point: appologize for another delay of a week. How does it affect our schedule?
15:14:31 <Yehya> Simon: when is the call for papers due?
15:14:51 <sharper> http://www.w3.org/WAI/RD/wiki/Mobile_Topic_Timeline
15:15:01 <vivienne> it's under important dates at the bottom
15:15:07 <Zakim> -giorgio
15:15:07 <yeliz> :)
15:15:31 <Zakim> +??P38
15:15:35 <Peter_Thiessen> Good question, hmm
15:15:35 <Yehya> Shadi: could we announce the call in a week? Any ideas?
15:15:35 <yeliz> zakim, unmute yeliz
15:15:35 <Zakim> yeliz should no longer be muted
15:15:44 <giorgio> zakim, ??p38 is giorgio
15:15:44 <Zakim> +giorgio; got it
15:15:58 <shadi> zakim, mute me
15:15:58 <Zakim> Shadi should now be muted
15:16:31 <Peter_Thiessen> Agree with Yeliz 
15:16:39 <Yehya> Yeliz: lookong at the previous call we miss the scientific commitee. We need to extend the introduction. I can provide a version by next week
15:17:22 <Peter_Thiessen> They did a stellar job :)
15:17:26 <Yehya> Simon: suggesstion to use the previous SC? 
15:17:32 <yeliz> http://www.w3.org/WAI/RD/2011/metrics/
15:17:50 <Yehya> Simon: Why not?
15:18:07 <yeliz> zakim, mute me
15:18:07 <Zakim> yeliz should now be muted
15:18:11 <vivienne> Yes, I said that I would help
15:18:15 <shadi> ack me
15:18:37 <Yehya> Simon: as chair
15:18:46 <yeliz> Shadi, Giorgio, Joshue, Markel, Vivienne
15:18:52 <Peter_Thiessen> Oh right, yes 
15:19:17 <yeliz> zakim, unmute yeliz
15:19:17 <Zakim> yeliz should no longer be muted
15:19:21 <shadi> zakim, mute me
15:19:21 <Zakim> Shadi should now be muted
15:19:24 <Yehya> Shadi: in one of the prvious minutes. People colunteered e.g. Klaus instead of Mario. Write this in the minutes ..
15:19:27 <Peter_Thiessen> Joint effort? :)
15:19:33 <Peter_Thiessen> I can write it you can edit it? :)
15:19:44 <shadi> +1
15:19:47 <vivienne> yes, that's fine
15:19:49 <markel> I'm fine with that
15:19:53 <giorgio> +1
15:20:20 <shadi> ack me
15:20:34 <yeliz> zakim, mute yeliz
15:20:34 <Zakim> yeliz should now be muted
15:20:37 <Yehya> Yeliz: Inviting one or two people to the SC
15:20:56 <Zakim> -giorgio
15:21:09 <Yehya> Shadi: external people are welcome. If we can recruite them on a short term! 
15:21:16 <Zakim> +??P18
15:21:27 <giorgio> zakim, ??p18 is giorgio
15:21:27 <Zakim> +giorgio; got it
15:21:50 <Yehya> Shadi: These people are not only reviewing papers but inreach the discussions at the symposium
15:22:00 <markel> One suggestion: for the future I would leave to the editors the decision of selecting the SC
15:22:15 <Yehya> Shadi: if they do not fit in our timeline the drop is for now
15:22:18 <giorgio> I'm in favor of Markel's proposal.
15:22:49 <yeliz> zakim, unmute yeliz
15:22:49 <Zakim> yeliz should no longer be muted
15:22:50 <Yehya> Simon: We go for SC next week as decided
15:22:55 <yeliz> q+
15:23:07 <shadi> q+ to respond to markel's suggestion
15:23:14 <shadi> ack yeliz
15:23:46 <Yehya> Yeliz: Alternatively and depending on the number of submissions we can invite other people.
15:23:49 <shadi> suggest saying: [[Others to be announced]]
15:23:50 <yeliz> zakim, mute yeliz
15:23:50 <Zakim> yeliz should now be muted
15:24:20 <yeliz> That's what I thought
15:24:31 <shadi> +1 to outreach argument but caution that it is a double-edged sword
15:24:43 <Yehya> Simon: Recruit people, if we do not get them next week we can have them at later point
15:24:51 <shadi> ack me
15:24:51 <Zakim> shadi, you wanted to respond to markel's suggestion
15:25:58 <Yehya> Simon: SC should be open to WG participants,
15:26:12 <Yehya> Shadi: not Simon
15:26:18 <markel> q+
15:26:29 <Zakim> -giorgio
15:26:32 <Peter_Thiessen> So the scientific committee is generally restricted to WG participants?
15:26:46 <Peter_Thiessen> ah ok got it
15:26:52 <markel> q-
15:26:53 <Zakim> +??P18
15:26:55 <yeliz> zakim, unmute yeliz
15:26:55 <Zakim> yeliz should no longer be muted
15:27:01 <Yehya> Shadi: careful who you invite - this may add more delay - Some would like to have their names, but would not work!
15:27:08 <giorgio> zakim, ??p18 is giorgio
15:27:08 <Zakim> +giorgio; got it
15:27:33 <yeliz> zakim, mute yeliz
15:27:33 <Zakim> yeliz should now be muted
15:27:33 <Yehya> Yeliz: I would invite only known people who we know that they would involve and work
15:27:43 <Peter_Thiessen> Sounds good Yeliz
15:27:44 <shadi> zakim, mute me
15:27:44 <Zakim> Shadi should now be muted
15:27:56 <sharper> RESOLVED: Pre Call to become Call text ready for next week - Editors to recruit external scientific committee members.
15:27:59 <shadi> ack me
15:28:47 <Yehya> Shadi: Another point with the timeline. At end of SC others will be announced later, this allows to add people later
15:28:54 <shadi> suggest saying: [[Others to be announced]]
15:28:59 <shadi> ...or such
15:29:11 <Yehya> Simon: Copy right as well for next week
15:29:17 <shadi> zakim, mute me
15:29:17 <Zakim> Shadi should now be muted
15:29:25 <shadi> zakim, who is making noise?
15:29:26 <vivienne> it sounds like you're underwater Simon
15:29:38 <Zakim> shadi, listening for 11 seconds I heard sound from the following: Yehya (16%), sharper (57%), giorgio (67%)
15:29:41 <yeliz> :)
15:30:15 <sharper> http://www.w3.org/WAI/RD/wiki/Topic_3_Timeline
15:30:36 <vivienne> thanks all.  Talk to you next week.
15:30:39 <Yehya> Simon: timeline for topic three: Shadi will ask Shawn
15:30:40 <vivienne> -vivienne
15:30:41 <Peter_Thiessen> cheers ttyl next week
15:30:42 <vivienne> vivienne has left #rd
15:30:43 <markel> see you guys!
15:30:43 <giorgio> bye
15:30:46 <markel> markel has left #rd
15:30:47 <sharper> bye
15:30:47 <Zakim> -giorgio
15:30:49 <Zakim> -vivienne
15:30:57 <Zakim> -Yehya
15:30:58 <Zakim> -Shadi
15:31:00 <Zakim> -Peter_Thiessen
15:31:06 <Zakim> -markel
15:31:11 <Zakim> -yeliz
15:31:16 <Zakim> -sharper
15:31:18 <Zakim> WAI_RDWG()10:30AM has ended
15:31:18 <Zakim> Attendees were Yehya, vivienne, sharper, Shadi, yeliz, markel, giorgio, Peter_Thiessen, Joshue
16:07:43 <shadi> trackbot, end meeting
16:07:43 <trackbot> Zakim, list attendees
16:07:43 <Zakim> sorry, trackbot, I don't know what conference this is
16:07:51 <trackbot> RRSAgent, please draft minutes
16:07:51 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/03/14-rd-minutes.html trackbot
16:07:52 <trackbot> RRSAgent, bye
16:07:52 <RRSAgent> I see no action items