IRC log of rd on 2012-03-14

Timestamps are in UTC.

14:29:47 [RRSAgent]

RRSAgent has joined #rd

14:29:47 [RRSAgent]

logging to http://www.w3.org/2012/03/14-rd-irc

14:29:49 [trackbot]

RRSAgent, make logs world

14:29:49 [Zakim]

Zakim has joined #rd

14:29:51 [trackbot]

Zakim, this will be 7394

14:29:52 [trackbot]

Meeting: Research and Development Working Group Teleconference

14:29:52 [trackbot]

Date: 14 March 2012

14:29:52 [Zakim]

ok, trackbot; I see WAI_RDWG()10:30AM scheduled to start in 1 minute

14:30:15 [sharper]

zakim, agenda?

14:30:15 [Zakim]

I see nothing on the agenda

14:30:19 [sharper]

Chair: Harper_Simon

14:30:19 [sharper]

Agenda+ Welcome & Logistics (Regrets, Agenda Requests, Comments)

14:30:20 [Yehya]

Yehya has joined #rd

14:31:03 [sharper]

Agenda+ Changes to Pre-Call http://www.w3.org/WAI/RD/wiki/Talk:Mobile_Pre_CFP

14:31:24 [sharper]

Agenda+ Copyright / Credit / Citations - discussion.

14:31:24 [sharper]

Agenda+ Mobile Full Call

14:31:25 [sharper]

Agenda+ Timelines / Schedule to 30th June 2013

14:31:25 [sharper]

Agenda+ RDWG Incubator

14:31:25 [sharper]

Agenda+ Current W3C Note Status

14:31:25 [sharper]

Agenda+ Any Other Business

14:31:41 [sharper]

zakim, save agenda

14:31:47 [Zakim]

ok, sharper, the agenda has been written to http://www.w3.org/2012/03/14-rd-agenda.rdf

14:31:47 [sharper]

zakim, take up item 1

14:31:49 [Zakim]

agendum 1. "Welcome & Logistics (Regrets, Agenda Requests, Comments)" taken up [from sharper]

14:31:49 [Zakim]

WAI_RDWG()10:30AM has now started

14:31:53 [Zakim]

+Yehya

14:31:56 [Zakim]

+??P2

14:32:05 [sharper]

present+ Harper_Simon

14:32:06 [vivienne]

zakim, ??P2 is me

14:32:06 [Zakim]

+vivienne; got it

14:32:07 [shadi]

zakim, code?

14:32:07 [Zakim]

the conference code is 7394 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), shadi

14:32:16 [sharper]

regrets+ McCathieNevile_Charles

14:33:05 [Zakim]

+??P5

14:33:14 [sharper]

zakim, ??P5 is sharper

14:33:14 [Zakim]

+sharper; got it

14:33:33 [Zakim]

+Shadi

14:34:17 [markel]

markel has joined #rd

14:34:46 [yeliz]

yeliz has joined #rd

14:35:37 [Zakim]

+??P7

14:35:45 [vivienne]

zakim, mute me

14:35:45 [Zakim]

vivienne should now be muted

14:36:04 [shadi]

scribe: Yehya

14:36:09 [giorgio]

giorgio has joined #rd

14:36:11 [Zakim]

+??P8

14:36:17 [yeliz]

zakim, ??P8 is yeliz

14:36:17 [Zakim]

+yeliz; got it

14:36:24 [yeliz]

zakim, mute me

14:36:24 [Zakim]

yeliz should now be muted

14:36:25 [markel]

zakim ??P7 is markel

14:36:39 [markel]

zakim, ??P7 is markel

14:36:39 [Zakim]

+markel; got it

14:37:05 [Yehya]

test

14:37:55 [shadi]

zakim, mute me

14:37:55 [Zakim]

Shadi should now be muted

14:38:02 [Zakim]

+??P10

14:38:37 [giorgio]

zakim, ??p10 is giorgio

14:38:37 [Zakim]

+giorgio; got it

14:38:46 [Yehya]

Simone: started with item 1

14:38:49 [sharper]

zakim, close item 1

14:38:49 [Zakim]

agendum 1, Welcome & Logistics (Regrets, Agenda Requests, Comments), closed

14:38:49 [sharper]

zakim, take up item 2

14:38:51 [Zakim]

I see 7 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is

14:38:51 [Zakim]

2. Changes to Pre-Call http://www.w3.org/WAI/RD/wiki/Talk:Mobile_Pre_CFP [from sharper]

14:38:51 [Zakim]

agendum 2. "Changes to Pre-Call http://www.w3.org/WAI/RD/wiki/Talk:Mobile_Pre_CFP" taken up [from sharper]

14:39:26 [Yehya]

simone: changed the agenda

14:39:39 [shadi]

s/simone/simon

14:40:26 [shadi]

ack me

14:40:27 [Yehya]

Simone: start with mobile pre call

14:40:49 [Peter]

Peter has joined #rd

14:41:51 [Yehya]

Shadi: comments we reeived. The text of the call is not well enough according to development in the field. There is alot of work happening in the field. Our message should acknowledge that. Not to do as starting from zero.

14:41:53 [shadi]

s/simone/simon

14:42:29 [Zakim]

+??P14

14:42:42 [Peter_Thiessen]

Zakim, ??P14 is me

14:42:42 [Zakim]

+Peter_Thiessen; got it

14:42:51 [Peter_Thiessen]

Zakim, mute me

14:42:51 [Zakim]

Peter_Thiessen should now be muted

14:43:27 [Yehya]

Shadi: second comment: envolvement of people with disabilities. This is beyoned our responsibility. This is unnfortunately common.

14:43:53 [Yehya]

Shadi: how we will address the two coments in an appropriate way?

14:43:57 [shadi]

zakim, mute me

14:43:57 [Zakim]

Shadi should now be muted

14:44:16 [Peter_Thiessen]

(catching up now)

14:44:41 [Peter_Thiessen]

+1

14:44:42 [Zakim]

-giorgio

14:44:43 [Yehya]

+

14:44:45 [vivienne]

having a read first

14:44:46 [Yehya]

+1

14:44:48 [markel]

+1

14:44:52 [shadi]

s/This is beyoned our responsibility/This is an issue beyond the scope of this group but a responsibility for us to involve people with disabilities

14:45:13 [vivienne]

+1

14:45:15 [yeliz]

zakim, unmute yeliz

14:45:15 [Zakim]

yeliz should no longer be muted

14:46:26 [Zakim]

+??P10

14:46:27 [shadi]

q+

14:46:40 [sharper]

ack shad

14:46:41 [shadi]

zakim, ??p10 is giorgio

14:46:41 [Zakim]

+giorgio; got it

14:46:47 [Peter_Thiessen]

(had the same confusion as Yeliz about the pre_call)

14:46:55 [Yehya]

Yeliz: regarding Comment1: This is a pre call and it is very short to reference existing work. In the extended version will be a lot of refernces. Comments 2: I understand it but I do not know how to involve PwD

14:47:26 [Zakim]

+[IPcaller]

14:48:39 [Yehya]

Shadi: Response of Yeliz to the first comment: I agree with the rational, but we need only a small change with few sentences.

14:49:14 [Peter_Thiessen]

q+

14:50:10 [giorgio]

I agree with yeliz, on keeping it open

14:50:51 [Yehya]

Yeliz: pre call will be very short. In the full call the related work should be considered. Regarding the second comment, accessibility is a major isssue and not only regarding PwD. I propose to keep it open for every body. Covering People in their daily lifes. This implies larger audience

14:51:01 [Peter_Thiessen]

(np :)

14:51:10 [giorgio]

Among the two options I would go for "We invite extended research abstracts of no more than 1000 words."

14:51:40 [yeliz]

Shadi, I am OK with the change

14:51:47 [yeliz]

I think it's good

14:51:55 [Yehya]

Shadi: Response: First point, even if it is a pre call, we should clraify this very short even their with a small tweak.

14:52:40 [yeliz]

I agree there are two different issues

14:52:58 [giorgio]

I keep loosing the audio! sorry: I'll have to rely on the written text..

14:52:59 [Yehya]

Shadi: Involving PwD: The definition of accessibility there are different opinions. The other issue how to involve PwD.

14:53:05 [shadi]

zakim, mute me

14:53:05 [Zakim]

Shadi should now be muted

14:53:25 [yeliz]

zakim, unmute yeliz

14:53:25 [Zakim]

yeliz was not muted, yeliz

14:53:26 [Yehya]

Simone: what changes would you like to see on the paragraph?

14:53:49 [Peter_Thiessen]

Are we still referring to this link for the pre-call? : http://www.w3.org/WAI/RD/wiki/Mobile_Pre_CFP

14:55:07 [Yehya]

Yeliz: the wording can be changed - Talking about broader accessibility. The other thing about challenges of PwD to use mobile systems

14:55:16 [Peter_Thiessen]

ack me

14:55:18 [sharper]

ack p

14:55:24 [yeliz]

zakim, mute yeliz

14:55:24 [Zakim]

yeliz should now be muted

14:55:38 [shadi]

q+ to talk about the scope of accessibility (the big white elephant in the room)

14:56:12 [Zakim]

-giorgio

14:56:33 [Zakim]

+??P10

14:56:43 [giorgio]

zakim, ??P10 is giorgio

14:56:43 [Zakim]

+giorgio; got it

14:56:48 [Yehya]

Peter: Comment 1: agree with shadi we can have a quick change. Second thing either one sound specific,

14:56:51 [Peter_Thiessen]

Zakim, mute me

14:56:51 [Zakim]

Peter_Thiessen should now be muted

14:57:33 [vivienne]

Im okay with Shadi's suggested changes

14:57:50 [Yehya]

Simone: asked for further comments

14:58:04 [shadi]

s/Simone/Simon

14:58:45 [shadi]

q-

14:59:04 [shadi]

[[WAI: Strategies, guidelines, resources to make the Web accessible to people with disabilities]]

14:59:50 [shadi]

q+ to say that *primary focus* on disability should not exclude other groups

15:00:03 [Peter_Thiessen]

agree with Simon about WAI and priorities and definition for PwD ..

15:00:16 [sharper]

ack sh

15:00:16 [Zakim]

shadi, you wanted to say that *primary focus* on disability should not exclude other groups

15:00:20 [shadi]

ack me

15:00:24 [Yehya]

Simon: I discussed with Shadi about the definition of accessibility. WAI has a specific understanding about this. As we are in WAI we should consider there understanding. In future calls we may elabortae more on this issue. I propose to keep the paragraph as it is

15:02:15 [Zakim]

-giorgio

15:02:50 [Zakim]

+??P38

15:03:05 [giorgio]

zakim, ??p38 is giorgio

15:03:05 [Zakim]

+giorgio; got it

15:03:14 [yeliz]

zakim, mute yeliz

15:03:14 [Zakim]

yeliz was already muted, yeliz

15:03:52 [yeliz]

I understand this, I think it makes sense to make the call inline with the WAI's goals as RDWG is part WAI group

15:04:05 [Yehya]

Shadi: about WAI's mission and understanding. Make the web accessibile for PwD. Despite the focus of WAI we should exclude other groups. The primary focus is on PwD. The term inclusion means the involvement of groups e.g. low income, low bandwidth. We do not have a boarder in our motivation. We consider as well the universal web available to everybody. Caution should be payed not to losse the focus on PwD

15:04:08 [shadi]

zakim, mute me

15:04:08 [Zakim]

Shadi should now be muted

15:04:12 [yeliz]

As I said earlier, we can update this as suggested

15:04:32 [shadi]

s/we should exclude/we should not exclude

15:04:33 [yeliz]

It's just I personally support wider scope for accesibility

15:04:46 [Yehya]

Simon: Accessibility in this way can not cover discrimination

15:04:57 [yeliz]

However, I am OK with this change

15:05:09 [giorgio]

ok for me

15:05:32 [shadi]

zakim, who is on the phone?

15:05:32 [Zakim]

On the phone I see vivienne (muted), Yehya, sharper, Shadi (muted), markel, yeliz (muted), Peter_Thiessen (muted), [IPcaller], giorgio

15:05:41 [shadi]

zakim, ipcaller is Joshue

15:05:41 [Zakim]

+Joshue; got it

15:06:24 [Yehya]

Giorgio: I agree with Shadi. Extending the focus benifits all groups.

15:06:37 [shadi]

s/Giorgio:/Joshue:

15:06:46 [giorgio]

yehia: that was josh, not giogio

15:06:52 [Peter_Thiessen]

+1 (1st paragraph, change looks good etc.)

15:06:55 [yeliz]

+1

15:06:57 [vivienne]

+1

15:06:59 [markel]

+1 first p

15:06:59 [giorgio]

+1

15:07:04 [Yehya]

+1

15:07:06 [shadi]

s/Extending the focus/Keeping the focus

15:07:29 [shadi]

ack me

15:08:10 [shadi]

zakim, mute me

15:08:10 [Zakim]

Shadi should now be muted

15:08:11 [Yehya]

Simon: resolution of this issue accepted by all presnt persons

15:08:14 [sharper]

RESOLVED: Accept changes to Intro para

15:08:16 [Zakim]

-giorgio

15:08:40 [Peter_Thiessen]

Yup copy and paste :)

15:08:59 [shadi]

Initial text: [[We invite extended research abstracts of no more than 1000 words from academia, industry, and others with interest in website accessibility metrics and quality assurance.]]

15:09:09 [Zakim]

+??P38

15:09:13 [Yehya]

Simon: As next Suggested changes from the coordination group

15:09:17 [shadi]

Suggested change: [[We invite extended research abstracts of no more than 1000 words from research, industry, people with disabilities, and others with interest in mobile web accessibility.]]

15:09:24 [giorgio]

zakim, ??p38 is giorgio

15:09:24 [Zakim]

+giorgio; got it

15:09:57 [markel]

it's also obvious for me

15:10:00 [shadi]

[[We invite extended research abstracts of no more than 1000 words.

15:10:00 [shadi]

OR

15:10:00 [shadi]

We invite extended research abstracts of no more than 1000 words from anyone with interest in mobile web accessibility. ]]

15:10:04 [Yehya]

Simon: SC will make its decision baesd on that

15:10:04 [yeliz]

I vote for the first version

15:10:24 [Zakim]

-Joshue

15:10:47 [yeliz]

I mean I vote for "We invite extended research abstracts of no more than 1000 words."

15:10:49 [Yehya]

Simon: 3 different contributions : Voting

15:10:53 [giorgio]

I see only two options.

15:11:09 [markel]

I go for "We invite extended research abstracts of no more than 1000 words."

15:11:11 [giorgio]

ohh, ok.

15:11:15 [shadi]

ack me

15:11:23 [shadi]

<del> <ins>

15:11:36 [shadi]

ack me

15:11:42 [shadi]

zakim, mute me

15:11:42 [Zakim]

Shadi should now be muted

15:11:50 [Peter_Thiessen]

vote, Option 3 ("We invite extended research abstracts of no more than 1000 words. We encourage ...")

15:11:50 [vivienne]

I vote for just saying no more than extended research abstracts of no more than 1000 words. The rest of the paragraph says that they need to be scientifically sound, so that should rule out inappropriate submissions.

15:11:50 [giorgio]

I go for "We invite extended research abstracts of no more than 1000 words."

15:12:13 [shadi]

ack me

15:12:50 [shadi]

zakim, mute me

15:12:50 [Zakim]

Shadi should now be muted

15:12:57 [shadi]

ack me

15:13:22 [yeliz]

zakim, mute yeliz

15:13:24 [Zakim]

yeliz was already muted, yeliz

15:13:32 [sharper]

RESOLVED: We invite extended research abstracts of no more than 1000 words.

15:13:40 [shadi]

q+ to ask about updated timeline given the delay

15:13:46 [shadi]

ack me

15:13:46 [Zakim]

shadi, you wanted to ask about updated timeline given the delay

15:14:04 [Peter_Thiessen]

I'll go ahead and make the wiki change (option 3).

15:14:18 [Yehya]

Shadi: a diffferent point: appologize for another delay of a week. How does it affect our schedule?

15:14:31 [Yehya]

Simon: when is the call for papers due?

15:14:51 [sharper]

http://www.w3.org/WAI/RD/wiki/Mobile_Topic_Timeline

15:15:01 [vivienne]

it's under important dates at the bottom

15:15:07 [Zakim]

-giorgio

15:15:07 [yeliz]

:)

15:15:31 [Zakim]

+??P38

15:15:35 [Peter_Thiessen]

Good question, hmm

15:15:35 [Yehya]

Shadi: could we announce the call in a week? Any ideas?

15:15:35 [yeliz]

zakim, unmute yeliz

15:15:35 [Zakim]

yeliz should no longer be muted

15:15:44 [giorgio]

zakim, ??p38 is giorgio

15:15:44 [Zakim]

+giorgio; got it

15:15:58 [shadi]

zakim, mute me

15:15:58 [Zakim]

Shadi should now be muted

15:16:31 [Peter_Thiessen]

Agree with Yeliz

15:16:39 [Yehya]

Yeliz: lookong at the previous call we miss the scientific commitee. We need to extend the introduction. I can provide a version by next week

15:17:22 [Peter_Thiessen]

They did a stellar job :)

15:17:26 [Yehya]

Simon: suggesstion to use the previous SC?

15:17:32 [yeliz]

http://www.w3.org/WAI/RD/2011/metrics/

15:17:50 [Yehya]

Simon: Why not?

15:18:07 [yeliz]

zakim, mute me

15:18:07 [Zakim]

yeliz should now be muted

15:18:11 [vivienne]

Yes, I said that I would help

15:18:15 [shadi]

ack me

15:18:37 [Yehya]

Simon: as chair

15:18:46 [yeliz]

Shadi, Giorgio, Joshue, Markel, Vivienne

15:18:52 [Peter_Thiessen]

Oh right, yes

15:19:17 [yeliz]

zakim, unmute yeliz

15:19:17 [Zakim]

yeliz should no longer be muted

15:19:21 [shadi]

zakim, mute me

15:19:21 [Zakim]

Shadi should now be muted

15:19:24 [Yehya]

Shadi: in one of the prvious minutes. People colunteered e.g. Klaus instead of Mario. Write this in the minutes ..

15:19:27 [Peter_Thiessen]

Joint effort? :)

15:19:33 [Peter_Thiessen]

I can write it you can edit it? :)

15:19:44 [shadi]

+1

15:19:47 [vivienne]

yes, that's fine

15:19:49 [markel]

I'm fine with that

15:19:53 [giorgio]

+1

15:20:20 [shadi]

ack me

15:20:34 [yeliz]

zakim, mute yeliz

15:20:34 [Zakim]

yeliz should now be muted

15:20:37 [Yehya]

Yeliz: Inviting one or two people to the SC

15:20:56 [Zakim]

-giorgio

15:21:09 [Yehya]

Shadi: external people are welcome. If we can recruite them on a short term!

15:21:16 [Zakim]

+??P18

15:21:27 [giorgio]

zakim, ??p18 is giorgio

15:21:27 [Zakim]

+giorgio; got it

15:21:50 [Yehya]

Shadi: These people are not only reviewing papers but inreach the discussions at the symposium

15:22:00 [markel]

One suggestion: for the future I would leave to the editors the decision of selecting the SC

15:22:15 [Yehya]

Shadi: if they do not fit in our timeline the drop is for now

15:22:18 [giorgio]

I'm in favor of Markel's proposal.

15:22:49 [yeliz]

zakim, unmute yeliz

15:22:49 [Zakim]

yeliz should no longer be muted

15:22:50 [Yehya]

Simon: We go for SC next week as decided

15:22:55 [yeliz]

q+

15:23:07 [shadi]

q+ to respond to markel's suggestion

15:23:14 [shadi]

ack yeliz

15:23:46 [Yehya]

Yeliz: Alternatively and depending on the number of submissions we can invite other people.

15:23:49 [shadi]

suggest saying: [[Others to be announced]]

15:23:50 [yeliz]

zakim, mute yeliz

15:23:50 [Zakim]

yeliz should now be muted

15:24:20 [yeliz]

That's what I thought

15:24:31 [shadi]

+1 to outreach argument but caution that it is a double-edged sword

15:24:43 [Yehya]

Simon: Recruit people, if we do not get them next week we can have them at later point

15:24:51 [shadi]

ack me

15:24:51 [Zakim]

shadi, you wanted to respond to markel's suggestion

15:25:58 [Yehya]

Simon: SC should be open to WG participants,

15:26:12 [Yehya]

Shadi: not Simon

15:26:18 [markel]

q+

15:26:29 [Zakim]

-giorgio

15:26:32 [Peter_Thiessen]

So the scientific committee is generally restricted to WG participants?

15:26:46 [Peter_Thiessen]

ah ok got it

15:26:52 [markel]

q-

15:26:53 [Zakim]

+??P18

15:26:55 [yeliz]

zakim, unmute yeliz

15:26:55 [Zakim]

yeliz should no longer be muted

15:27:01 [Yehya]

Shadi: careful who you invite - this may add more delay - Some would like to have their names, but would not work!

15:27:08 [giorgio]

zakim, ??p18 is giorgio

15:27:08 [Zakim]

+giorgio; got it

15:27:33 [yeliz]

zakim, mute yeliz

15:27:33 [Zakim]

yeliz should now be muted

15:27:33 [Yehya]

Yeliz: I would invite only known people who we know that they would involve and work

15:27:43 [Peter_Thiessen]

Sounds good Yeliz

15:27:44 [shadi]

zakim, mute me

15:27:44 [Zakim]

Shadi should now be muted

15:27:56 [sharper]

RESOLVED: Pre Call to become Call text ready for next week - Editors to recruit external scientific committee members.

15:27:59 [shadi]

ack me

15:28:47 [Yehya]

Shadi: Another point with the timeline. At end of SC others will be announced later, this allows to add people later

15:28:54 [shadi]

suggest saying: [[Others to be announced]]

15:28:59 [shadi]

...or such

15:29:11 [Yehya]

Simon: Copy right as well for next week

15:29:17 [shadi]

zakim, mute me

15:29:17 [Zakim]

Shadi should now be muted

15:29:25 [shadi]

zakim, who is making noise?

15:29:26 [vivienne]

it sounds like you're underwater Simon

15:29:38 [Zakim]

shadi, listening for 11 seconds I heard sound from the following: Yehya (16%), sharper (57%), giorgio (67%)

15:29:41 [yeliz]

:)

15:30:15 [sharper]

http://www.w3.org/WAI/RD/wiki/Topic_3_Timeline

15:30:36 [vivienne]

thanks all. Talk to you next week.

15:30:39 [Yehya]

Simon: timeline for topic three: Shadi will ask Shawn

15:30:40 [vivienne]

-vivienne

15:30:41 [Peter_Thiessen]

cheers ttyl next week

15:30:42 [vivienne]

vivienne has left #rd

15:30:43 [markel]

see you guys!

15:30:43 [giorgio]

bye

15:30:46 [markel]

markel has left #rd

15:30:47 [sharper]

bye

15:30:47 [Zakim]

-giorgio

15:30:49 [Zakim]

-vivienne

15:30:57 [Zakim]

-Yehya

15:30:58 [Zakim]

-Shadi

15:31:00 [Zakim]

-Peter_Thiessen

15:31:06 [Zakim]

-markel

15:31:11 [Zakim]

-yeliz

15:31:16 [Zakim]

-sharper

15:31:18 [Zakim]

WAI_RDWG()10:30AM has ended

15:31:18 [Zakim]

Attendees were Yehya, vivienne, sharper, Shadi, yeliz, markel, giorgio, Peter_Thiessen, Joshue

16:07:43 [shadi]

trackbot, end meeting

16:07:43 [trackbot]

Zakim, list attendees

16:07:43 [Zakim]

sorry, trackbot, I don't know what conference this is

16:07:51 [trackbot]

RRSAgent, please draft minutes

16:07:51 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/03/14-rd-minutes.html trackbot

16:07:52 [trackbot]

RRSAgent, bye

16:07:52 [RRSAgent]

I see no action items