09:20:44 RRSAgent has joined #mlw-lt 09:20:44 logging to http://www.w3.org/2012/03/09-mlw-lt-irc 09:20:52 meeting: MLW-LT Working group 09:21:02 chair: DaveDavidFelix 09:25:23 felix, I joined the group on behalf of UL yesterday and nominated myslef, but I cannot see myself among group participants 09:25:46 I sthere any other step? I cannot find it on Group UI? 09:25:52 I18N_MLW WG(LT)4:30AM has now started 09:25:59 +??P0 09:26:50 df, did you use this link? https://www.w3.org/2004/01/pp-impl/53116/join 09:26:54 Mihael has joined #mlw-lt 09:27:12 + +47.23.69.aaaa 09:27:16 yes, this one 09:27:20 Declan has joined #mlw-lt 09:27:27 +??P2 09:28:22 nc has joined #mlw-lt 09:28:49 + +3531700aabb 09:28:55 UL was in but not I, for some reason it worked this time.. 09:29:45 +??P4 09:30:19 mkarsek has joined #mlw-lt 09:30:33 mkarsek has left #mlw-lt 09:30:52 -david 09:30:59 Milan has joined #mlw-lt 09:31:19 + +34.91.761.aacc 09:31:40 +??P6 09:32:12 + +49.699.726.aadd 09:32:18 +??P7 09:32:32 + +44.783.455.aaee 09:32:35 +??P9 09:32:48 philr has joined #mlw-lt 09:32:49 tadej has joined #mlw-lt 09:33:17 Good morning all. 09:33:36 + +49.699.726.aaff 09:36:40 -david 09:36:42 -fsasaki 09:36:56 - +44.783.455.aaee 09:37:02 - +49.699.726.aaff 09:37:13 -moritz 09:37:14 + +35387226aagg 09:37:19 -aaron 09:38:04 Moe has joined #mlw-lt 09:38:11 -Pedro 09:38:12 -declan 09:38:15 hello. Have we found an alternative yet? 09:38:30 -??P9 09:38:32 thanks 09:38:33 I think David Filip is setting up gotomeeting as an alternative 09:38:53 -Mihael 09:39:03 zakim, who is here? 09:39:03 On the phone I see ??P7, +35387226aagg 09:39:04 On IRC I see Moe, tadej, philr, Milan, nc, Declan, Mihael, RRSAgent, Zakim, fsasaki, aaronb_, dF 09:39:10 zakim, drop ??P7 09:39:10 ??P7 is being disconnected 09:39:12 -??P7 09:39:14 zakim, drop +35 09:39:14 +35387226aagg is being disconnected 09:39:15 I18N_MLW WG(LT)4:30AM has ended 09:39:16 Attendees were +47.23.69.aaaa, fsasaki, Mihael, aaron, +3531700aabb, declan, david, +34.91.761.aacc, Pedro, +44.783.455.aaee, +49.699.726.aaff, carina, +35387226aagg 09:41:11 1. Please join my meeting. https://www3.gotomeeting.com/join/860426070 2. Use your microphone and speakers (VoIP) - a headset is recommended. Or, call in using your telephone. Germany: +49 (0) 898 7806 6465 Ireland: +353 (0) 14 845 982 United States: +1 (909) 259-0010 Access Code: 860-426-070 Audio PIN: Shown after joining the meeting Meeting ID: 860-426-070 GoToMeeting® Online Meetings Made Easy™ 09:41:34 I sent the instructions also via e-mail to both aliases 09:43:01 Hi everyone, please join the GoTo meeting simply by clicking the link 09:43:27 you do not need to dial in into the phone conference if you have headset on your computer 09:44:45 Carina has joined #mlw-lt 09:45:32 Hi @dF, gotomeeting says in need a new client. should be here soon. 09:46:35 doates has joined #mlw-lt 09:46:52 present: aaron, carina, declan, fsasaki, Mihael, Milan, Moritz, Nicoletta, Phil, Tadej 09:48:45 present+ doates 09:50:10 Des, do you have the GoTo meeting details, they are posted here 09:50:12 pedro has joined #mlw-lt 09:50:20 1. Please join my meeting. https://www3.gotomeeting.com/join/860426070 2. Use your microphone and speakers (VoIP) - a headset is recommended. Or, call in using your telephone. Germany: +49 (0) 898 7806 6465 Ireland: +353 (0) 14 845 982 United States: +1 (909) 259-0010 Access Code: 860-426-070 Audio PIN: Shown after joining the meeting Meeting ID: 860-426-070 GoToMeeting® Online Meetings Made Easy™ 09:51:13 Sorry, everyone, we had too bad voice quality on the Zakim bridge, we had to re-group on GoTo 09:52:02 topic: introduction 09:52:30 david: going through list of participants of the group 09:52:41 current state: https://www.w3.org/2000/09/dbwg/details?group=53116&public=1 09:53:01 michael from DERI introducing himself 09:53:10 michael: working at DERI, concentrating on Semantic Web 09:53:20 .. dealing with ontologies 09:53:31 ... question answering, multilingual ontology generation 09:54:40 pedro: from linguaserve, localization service provider 09:54:48 .. working with multilingual solutions: 09:54:57 .. e.g. online translation systems 09:55:04 .. localization chain interoperability & web services 09:55:11 .. participating here for two aspects: 09:55:18 .. 1) providing input to the standard definition 09:55:34 .. 2) practical experiences from multilingual processing 09:55:45 .. 3) specific work package contribution 09:56:06 david: for people who are not in the group: work packages are references implementations the EC funded group is doing 09:56:16 see http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/wiki/Main_Page#Deliverables.2C_WPs 09:57:09 david: some of the reference implementations will be open source 09:57:11 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/03/09-mlw-lt-minutes.html fsasaki 09:57:33 aaron: from Opera, nice to be here 09:57:36 .. I am localization coordinator for opera 09:57:48 .. localization of web properties is my interest 09:57:56 .. managing relation between browsers and users 09:58:05 .. currently handled differently for each browser 09:58:18 .. we have developed ways how we manage translations with providers and volunteers 09:58:33 .. I'm here to learn more about best practices 09:58:40 Felix, do we have a public list for the LUX f-2-f 09:58:52 .. that we can increase efficiency 09:59:30 link for luxembourg meeting: http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/wiki/Main_Page#Deliverables.2C_WPs 09:59:44 nc, do you want to post a brief introduction here on IRC? 10:00:14 guiseppe: development director of linguaserve, I'm from italy 10:01:14 giuseppe has joined #mlw-lt 10:01:46 david: describing the role XLIFF, main format for localization roundtripping 10:02:03 .. we also have relationship with other TCs like oasis XLIFF etc. 10:02:23 .. other relationships to Unicode consortium, ETSI etc. 10:02:36 .. I am working at Univ. of Limerick 10:02:52 .. research in standardization related to localization 10:03:21 regrets: daniel 10:03:33 declan: work at DCU 10:03:53 .. european projects like euromatrix plus 10:04:01 .. panacea (for data aquisition) 10:04:08 .. cosyne (multilingual synchronization of wikis) 10:04:15 .. background is mostly in MT 10:04:27 .. my role in MLW-LT is about metadata for machine translation training 10:04:39 .. and work package 4 about online MT systems 10:04:52 milan: from moravia worldwide, another LSP in the group 10:05:33 .. helping developing reference implementations related to XLIFF roundtripping 10:06:09 regrets: daniel, jirka 10:06:28 david: too early for enlaso 10:07:20 doates, can you unmute yourself on the gotomeeting? 10:07:42 phil: CTO with vistaTEC, also LSP 10:07:46 .. based in Dublin Ireland 10:07:52 .. a lot of process automation 10:08:11 .. in MLW-LW, we want to improve decision making automation, based on metadata 10:08:23 .. excited for potential for improving our process 10:08:26 .. we are also member of CNGL 10:08:36 (centre for next generation localisation) 10:10:26 felix: working for W3C and DFKI fellow, coordinating underlying EU project and co-chair with David and Dave 10:10:55 .. background in i18n actitiy in W3C, bringing in existing standardization here (ITS) and assuring relation to HTML5 etc. 10:10:59 doates: from adobe 10:11:25 link for luxembourg meeting: http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/wiki/Main_Page#Deliverables.2C_WPs 10:11:50 doates, can you type a short self intro into IRC? 10:12:18 tadej: from JSI 10:12:28 .. working on NLP, data mining, semantic web 10:12:35 .. our role is to be provider of text analytics tools 10:12:44 .. that provide metadata for existing content 10:13:05 .. and to use that for other processes in the localization or other pipelines 10:13:12 david: anyone else on the call? 10:13:39 moritz: from cocomore, agency for communication and technology 10:13:54 .. joining to work on multilingual CMS solutions 10:13:54 AI for Cocomore: formally join the group 10:14:24 :-) 10:14:35 :-( 10:14:50 moritz: want to evangelize the metadata too 10:14:59 .. metadata will focus on drupal 10:15:28 about carina (introduced by moritz): also at cocomore 10:15:30 .. will also join us 10:16:04 topic: about the group 10:16:11 David: EU project started January 2012 10:16:22 .. W3C project just started 7 March 10:16:25 (see press release at http://www.w3.org/Press/Releases-2012#x2012-mwlt ) 10:16:46 david: 13 members of the group are LT-Web consortium. That's EC working title of the project 10:17:32 david: the w3c working group is larger and is working under the W3C IPR policies 10:17:45 .. the EU project has some additional obligations, e.g. work on the standard and test suites 10:17:52 .. and to develop reference implementations 10:18:19 .. see the deliverables list at http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/wiki/Main_Page#Deliverables.2C_WPs 10:18:25 topic: first f2f meeting 10:18:30 A brief intro from me as requested: I'm a localization architect working withing the globalization group at Adobe. I've been in that group for 14 years, working on variousl products and tools. I am now the architect of our internal localization platform and am keen to help shape the definition of this group, and help bring it to a point where it is suitable to drive it back into our internal machinery, and also to push it into our products. 10:18:41 david: not a formal f2f meeting, since it couldn't have been announced in time 10:18:54 .. still the meeting in Luxembourg is open for everybody 10:19:01 see http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/wiki/LuxembourgMarch2012 10:19:25 david: meeting is open for all participants 10:20:18 felix: how about other people to join the meeting? 10:20:38 david: should be OK, but let's address this offline 10:20:47 david: other meetings planned: Dublin Meeting in June 10:21:03 looking forward to Dublin 10:22:04 http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/wiki/Main_Page#Meetings 10:24:18 david: dublin meeting will be a requirements gathering meeting, hoping to get a lot of feedback 10:25:12 david going through the WG homepage 10:25:52 see http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/#feedback for questionnaire about requirements 10:26:06 topic: questionnaire 10:26:15 david: please fill in the questionnaire http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/1/mlw-lt-requirements/ 10:26:35 .. and let other stakeholders know about it and see if they can fill it in 10:27:32 http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/wiki/LuxembourgMarch2012#Agenda 10:28:34 david: you can still add points of interest to the agenda 10:28:40 felix: please also have a look at the pre-read materials 10:28:45 topic: aob 10:29:20 david: we had a good opening call, looking forward to meet you regualry for 95 imtes 10:30:43 felix: we will need an additional meeting slot, for people in the US 10:31:00 Will David set up another GoToMeeting for our next call - in 2 minutes? 10:31:27 I think it is OK to continue on this GoTo 10:31:48 OK, I will re-join. 10:31:54 adjourn of this call 10:32:00 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/03/09-mlw-lt-minutes.html fsasaki 10:33:01 @dF, I'll continue to take notes here, ok? 10:33:27 topic: WP meeting (EU project specific, but open to others too) 10:33:31 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/03/09-mlw-lt-minutes.html fsasaki 10:34:36 tadej, please stay :) 10:35:11 tadej: interested how the MT workflow will use metadata 10:35:18 kimmo has joined #mlw-lt 10:35:23 .. declan said in the berlin meeting that there are some opportunities 10:36:07 Declan: what we could handle just now 10:36:15 pasting instructions into IRC: 10:36:19 1. Please join my meeting. https://www3.gotomeeting.com/join/860426070 2. Use your microphone and speakers (VoIP) - a headset is recommended. Or, call in using your telephone. Germany: +49 (0) 898 7806 6465 Ireland: +353 (0) 14 845 982 United States: +1 (909) 259-0010 Access Code: 860-426-070 Audio PIN: Shown after joining the meeting Meeting ID: 860-426-070 10:36:42 Declan: priorities 10:36:44 declan: types of metadata for MT training: domain, terminology, do not translate item 10:36:49 .. 1. terms 10:36:56 .. and related to training process 10:36:57 ..2. do not translate 10:37:17 @DF, happy to continue scribing 10:37:19 ..3. domain related metadata 10:37:30 declan: above would be most useful for MT training 10:37:33 OK :-) 10:37:55 tadej: for terminology we can contribute automatic generation 10:38:04 .. for "do not translate" it depends on the target language 10:38:17 declan: domain information is about the topic, e.g. chemistry, biology etc. 10:38:22 .. but also stylistic 10:38:32 .. e.g. whether it is formalized etc. 10:38:59 .. could be someone dealing with patents etc. 10:39:05 .. we use this to categorize training materials 10:39:12 tadej: sounds very useful 10:39:25 .. our existing can analyze topic information 10:39:33 .. but not genre information yet 10:39:41 david: in let's MT project things like that were done 10:39:50 .. there was a challenge in organizing training data 10:39:58 .. result was multi dimensional 10:40:04 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/03/09-mlw-lt-minutes.html fsasaki 10:40:17 david: main interest was for SMT builder 10:40:31 .. they are interested in data, metadata is nice 10:40:41 .. but for building the training corpus there needs to be something else 10:40:46 .. e.g. a clustering 10:40:50 .. if a corpus is really bgi 10:40:55 s/bgi/big/ 10:41:12 .. you may need to use metadata for clustering 10:41:29 .. but clustering can also depend on other things than metadata 10:41:40 declan: issue is granularity 10:41:58 .. on top of a base line you would want to use more specific models 10:42:16 .. you would use more domain specific data, identified by metadata 10:42:23 .. and cascade the training 10:42:40 .. in an SMT system you can have multilple translation models and language models 10:42:54 .. we assume that domain specific models can help the quality 10:43:11 david: true, but is domain specific not cross metadata categories? 10:43:20 declan: for general clustering that might the case 10:43:43 .. but you could use a number of domains to represent a particiluar domain 10:44:09 tadej: what granularity are you looking for - corse grained? 10:44:15 declan: yes, higher level 10:44:29 milan: granularity also depends on amount of data 10:46:18 declan: do you have example of ontology you use, Tadej? 10:46:20 tadej: yes 10:46:27 .. we are using dmos 10:46:33 .. open directory ontology 10:46:39 .. has 1 million categories 10:46:43 .. hierachical 10:46:47 .. covers a lot of domains 10:46:57 Pedro has joined #mlw-lt 10:47:01 http://www.dmoz.org/ 10:47:48 declan: want to have a granularity that MT systems can make use ful 10:47:52 s/ful/of/ 10:48:01 tadej: so maybe only top level is useful 10:48:03 http://enrycher.ijs.si/ 10:48:04 declan: yes 10:48:23 tadej: for enrycher, you can see categories we are providing 10:48:31 declan: great, we could use that as a starting point 10:49:19 kimmo: any practical questions for me at the moment? 10:49:50 kimmo, I think we are all set for next week, thanks for checking 10:49:58 (I a muted since I am on the way to Cebit) 10:50:21 Pedro has left #mlw-lt 10:51:15 declan: deliverables are to be finished month 15, but standard is month 21 10:51:31 .. we will adjust our deliverable for the final standard in month 21 10:51:45 .. will still be in allocated PM, but divide the time between start and the end 10:52:10 .. so we still do what is in the dow, but adhere to the standard process 10:52:38 moritz: there should be not too much that we have change a lot 10:52:59 declan: agree 10:53:10 pedro has joined #mlw-lt 10:53:37 declan: so move deliverables to month 21 or have two parts 10:54:01 declan: any other questions about the WP5 work plan? 10:54:06 declan, fine by me 10:54:20 action: declan to adjust the WP plan for WP 5 10:54:43 zakim, mute me 10:54:43 sorry, kimmo, I don't know what conference this is 10:54:47 mute me 10:54:54 moritz: would good to have some background material about localization chain 10:55:35 declan: I'll send you some material 10:55:36 moritz: great, thanks 10:56:01 moritz: two main workflows that we could use from drupal: XLIFF or HTML(5) 10:56:12 declan: usually we do a lot of batch processing, offline 10:56:26 .. we have done work with XLIFF and TMX and other formats 10:56:38 .. we are open about what is most easiest and flexible 10:56:48 .. to define standard ways of input 10:57:06 moe, let's have the call with the whole group, so that others can jump in 10:57:15 topic: WP5 discusssion 10:57:24 declan: so that's all for WP5 discussion so far 10:57:38 .. anything else? 10:58:48 topic: WP3 10:59:02 moritz: nothing to discuss 10:59:30 https://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/wiki/ImplementationIssues/Drupal 11:01:15 felix: propose to discuss Yves's proposal about a separate module to get localizable content out of drupal - at this call 11:01:33 .. not now in detail, but later with Yves on the list or on a call 11:02:12 action: moritz to trigger the discussion with Yves on the public mailing list and or a regular call about Yves's issue 11:02:33 david: Yves reported that it is hard to extract, that was expected 11:02:57 .. issues of getting all localizable stuff into the cycle has been addressed by XLIFF module 11:05:51 that's all for me for WP3, I have no further items 11:06:18 topic: WP2 11:06:35 http://www.w3.org/2011/12/mlw-lt-charter.html 11:07:29 http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/wiki/LuxembourgMarch2012#Pre-reading_material 11:07:34 http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/wiki/images/e/ee/Mlw-lt_standardization-process.pdf 11:09:20 It may be worth compiling a master planning chart for the WPs (in a similar format to the plans for WP3, WP5 that I've seen already) so that we can clearly see the inter-dependencies between the deliverables across WPs 11:12:03 http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/wiki/Main_Page#Deliverables.2C_WPs 11:13:22 action: felix to check excel upload in the w3c side 11:13:41 doates has left #mlw-lt 11:15:04 topic: draft agenda 11:15:17 moritz: agenda needs times in it 11:15:26 action: felix to add times to luxembourg agenda 11:16:38 meeting adjourned 11:16:53 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/03/09-mlw-lt-minutes.html fsasaki 11:31:05 fsasaki has joined #mlw-lt 12:45:45 trackbot has joined #mlw-lt 12:59:06 Zakim has left #mlw-lt 13:20:40 fsasaki has joined #mlw-lt 13:21:26 action: Declan to adjust the WP plan for WP 5 13:21:26 Created ACTION-1 - Adjust the WP plan for WP 5 [on Declan Groves - due 2012-03-16]. 13:21:38 action: felix to add times to luxembourg agenda 13:21:38 Created ACTION-2 - Add times to luxembourg agenda [on Felix Sasaki - due 2012-03-16]. 13:21:48 felix to check excel upload in the w3c side 13:21:52 action: felix to check excel upload in the w3c side 13:21:52 Created ACTION-3 - Check excel upload in the w3c side [on Felix Sasaki - due 2012-03-16]. 13:22:05 action: moritz to trigger the discussion with Yves on the public mailing list and or a regular call about Yves's issue 13:22:05 Created ACTION-4 - Trigger the discussion with Yves on the public mailing list and or a regular call about Yves's issue [on Moritz Hellwig - due 2012-03-16]. 13:22:30 rrsagent, bye 13:22:30 I see 8 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2012/03/09-mlw-lt-actions.rdf : 13:22:30 ACTION: declan to adjust the WP plan for WP 5 [1] 13:22:30 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2012/03/09-mlw-lt-irc#T10-54-20 13:22:30 ACTION: moritz to trigger the discussion with Yves on the public mailing list and or a regular call about Yves's issue [2] 13:22:30 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2012/03/09-mlw-lt-irc#T11-02-12 13:22:30 ACTION: felix to check excel upload in the w3c side [3] 13:22:30 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2012/03/09-mlw-lt-irc#T11-13-22 13:22:30 ACTION: felix to add times to luxembourg agenda [4] 13:22:30 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2012/03/09-mlw-lt-irc#T11-15-26 13:22:30 ACTION: Declan to adjust the WP plan for WP 5 [5] 13:22:30 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2012/03/09-mlw-lt-irc#T13-21-26 13:22:30 ACTION: felix to add times to luxembourg agenda [6] 13:22:30 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2012/03/09-mlw-lt-irc#T13-21-38 13:22:30 ACTION: felix to check excel upload in the w3c side [7] 13:22:30 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2012/03/09-mlw-lt-irc#T13-21-52 13:22:30 ACTION: moritz to trigger the discussion with Yves on the public mailing list and or a regular call about Yves's issue [8] 13:22:30 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2012/03/09-mlw-lt-irc#T13-22-05