20:02:32 RRSAgent has joined #svg 20:02:32 logging to http://www.w3.org/2012/03/08-svg-irc 20:02:34 RRSAgent, make logs public 20:02:34 Zakim has joined #svg 20:02:36 Zakim, this will be GA_SVGWG 20:02:36 ok, trackbot, I see GA_SVGWG(SVG1)3:00PM already started 20:02:37 Meeting: SVG Working Group Teleconference 20:02:37 Date: 08 March 2012 20:02:50 zakim, who is here? 20:02:50 On the phone I see +1.415.832.aaaa, +61.2.980.5.aabb 20:03:12 zakim, aaaa is me 20:03:13 +krit; got it 20:03:20 zakim, aabb is me 20:03:20 +cyril; got it 20:03:32 + +33.9.53.77.aacc 20:03:56 zakim, +33 is me 20:03:56 +Tav; got it 20:04:57 dschulze@adobe.com 20:05:27 +??P4 20:05:33 Zakim, ??P4 is me 20:05:33 +ed; got it 20:06:08 Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2012JanMar/0143.html 20:07:05 scribe: krit 20:07:18 scribenic: krit 20:07:27 scribenick: krit 20:07:51 chair: ed 20:08:11 ed: first topic time changes 20:08:50 ed: australia with the latest change? 20:09:23 ed: 3 weeks time all transit. Then we review chnages to times 20:09:37 ChrisL has joined #svg 20:10:22 +ChrisL 20:10:46 cyril: I think we should switch to morning in europe 20:10:56 Tav: doesn't work for the damn americans 20:11:04 lol 20:11:09 cyril: doesn't work for east coste 20:11:18 cabanier: what about west coast 20:11:25 cyril: haha 20:11:26 cabanier_away has joined #svg 20:11:35 shepazu has joined #svg 20:11:51 Tav: 1h later in europe one hour later in australia last year 20:12:03 http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/fixedtime.html?month=05&day=01&year=2012&hour=20&min=00&sec=0&p1=0 shows 20.00 UTC May 1, 2012 20:12:42 krit: cabanier: 1 hour later is fine for us 20:13:02 so, sydney 6am... maybe not great 20:13:03 cabanier: 1 earlier is not that good for australia 20:13:16 cyril: we should check with cameron 20:13:37 krit: stay for now? 20:13:50 ed: stay till 3 weeks when all countries switched 20:13:57 cyril: 2 more weels 20:14:04 s/weels/weeks/ 20:14:21 ed: keep the time for 2 more weeks 20:15:07 … more discussions about time shift 20:15:24 ed: no decision now? 20:15:43 all: lets stay for the next 2 weeks 20:16:16 zakim, who is noisy? 20:16:29 cyril, listening for 12 seconds I heard sound from the following: krit (3%) 20:16:55 resolution: keep the time for 2 weeks 20:17:17 action: erik will send a mail for time shift and time change 20:17:17 Created ACTION-3245 - Will send a mail for time shift and time change [on Erik Dahlström - due 2012-03-15]. 20:17:36 next topic: template for tests 20:17:42 zakim, who is noisy? 20:17:44 ChrisL: mails on mailing list 20:17:53 cyril, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: Tav (44%), ed (5%) 20:18:29 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2012JanMar/0142.html 20:18:34 Tav: cameron said that html tag inside svg and try to add html inside svg you'' break 20:18:56 ChrisL: cameron suggested a lot more chnages 20:19:07 ChrisL: he seems to wnat to have a whole new layer 20:19:16 Tav: link and meta are not part of svg 20:19:27 ChrisL: we had a resolution to add them 20:19:34 ChrisL: anyway we should ask peter 20:19:45 ChrisL: wecould add it to our svg naemspace 20:19:57 ed: html5 might break the parsing algorithm there 20:20:05 zakim, who is here? 20:20:05 On the phone I see krit, cyril, Tav, ed, ChrisL 20:20:56 ChrisL: it seems to be a clear resolution that al changes might break html5 parsing. for those test we need something different 20:21:12 s/html5 might break the parsing algorithm there/html5's parsing algorithm would break out into html mode if we didn't parent the link and meta elements inside a foreignobject/ 20:21:41 Tav: cameron suggestions is a bit simplper 20:21:46 ChrisL: i didn't like it 20:22:22 I think he has oversimplified and it will loose functionality 20:22:35 Tav: he is not removing anything 20:22:45 Tav: he just implementes in another way 20:23:01 Tav: he is just not put html5 into ahead 20:23:02 ?? 20:23:21 Tav: th eproblem with meta tag. 20:23:33 Tav: he still has a data tag 20:24:21 Tach if an html5 parser finds a link in a svg tag 20:24:27 ChrisL: what happens? 20:24:39 Tav: I don't know 20:25:02 ChrisL: html parser don't care about the tags at all 20:26:07 cabanier95 has joined #svg 20:26:09 ChrisL: a framwork in place to start writing tests 20:26:28 ChrisL: otherwise they don't get it written 20:26:36 s/it// 20:26:47 ed: I prefer simplified structure 20:26:54 ed: no namespaces 20:26:58 Tav: I agree 20:27:15 cabanier has joined #svg 20:27:19 ChrisL: we had the test criteria … where did it went? 20:27:38 Tav: the test harness has to be modified to do that 20:27:46 ChrisL: is that in the head and a meta 20:28:11 ChrisL: simplicity is goood 20:28:13 but 20:28:39 Tav: link to the different parts of the spec 20:28:47 Tav: and which parts it needs to pass 20:28:50 http://wiki.csswg.org/test/format 20:29:16 Tav: test assertions: 20:29:29 ChrisL: it is all in the content attribute 20:29:35 ChrisL: no markup at all 20:29:56 Tav: above in the spec links, there is a link that tells you what part of the spec gets tested 20:30:01 ChrisL: thats fine 20:30:21 http://w3c-test.org/framework/ seems broken 20:30:51 the tags that break out of "foreign" mode (aka SVG in html): http://dev.w3.org/html5/spec/Overview.html#parsing-main-inforeign (link is not among those) 20:31:09 ChrisL: ok 20:31:40 ed: meta does break out 20:31:45 Tav: link is ok 20:31:49 ed: yes 20:31:59 Tav: you still need sth for the tags 20:32:06 Tav: description is ok 20:32:32 ed: could we use svg metadata element? 20:33:04 http://www.w3.org/TR/SVG/metadata.html 20:33:14 ed: just sth to put test meta data on 20:33:17 ed: should be fine 20:33:24 ChrisL: would be fine than 20:33:32 ChrisL: peter should know what we want to do 20:34:00 ed: metadata should replace meta eleemnt 20:34:20 ed: link lists all the tags that break out 20:34:39 ed: link element would get unknown svg element 20:34:49 ed: needs verification 20:35:37 ChrisL: so no other namespace, no head 20:35:42 ChrisL: just metadata? 20:36:07 http://software.hixie.ch/utilities/js/live-dom-viewer/?%3C!DOCTYPE%20html%3E%0D%0A%3Csvg%3E%0D%0A%3Clink%2F%3E%0D%0A%3Ccircle%20r%3D5%2F%3E%0D%0A%3C%2Fsvg%3E 20:36:38 ed: I dont see a circle in opera and safaro 20:36:45 s/safaro/safari 20:37:44 20:37:44 we will use 20:42:01 Tav: what cameron sugeested with metadat 20:42:02 a 20:42:11 Tav: basically 20:42:25 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2012JanMar/0142.html 20:42:32 ed: something else on his proposal 20:42:41 Tav: yes, the very last thing 20:42:47 Tav: that we diagree too 20:43:12 Tav: other issues with copy right… a list that ChrisL sent 20:44:06 ed: i'll send a final proposal to the list 20:44:14 http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/wiki/SVG2/Testing_Requirements#Test_SVG_File_Template 20:44:15 ed: peter should review 20:44:26 ChrisL: ed can you edit the wiki? 20:44:28 ed: ok 20:44:50 s/ed: i'll send a final proposal to the list/ed: Tav'll send a final proposal to the list/ 20:45:03 s/ ed can you edit the wiki?/I am editing the wiki 20:45:55 ChrisL: metadata for flags 20:45:55 ? 20:46:01 20:46:12 Tav: the defs tag for the text description 20:46:30 s/defs/desc/ 20:46:47 ed: should it be long or short descr? 20:46:53 Tav: as long as you need/ 20:47:31 ChrisL: if we agree, than we ask peter 20:47:36 Tav: ok 20:48:18 Tav: what about copyright 20:48:25 ed: use BSD for the suite 20:48:44 ChrisL: put the license into one place and link to it 20:48:47 Tav: I agree 20:49:14 action: ChrisL will edit the wiki page and mention how to add license and copyright 20:49:14 Created ACTION-3246 - Will edit the wiki page and mention how to add license and copyright [on Chris Lilley - due 2012-03-15]. 20:49:26 Tav: what about revision? 20:49:53 Tav: we have version controll system, so no extra revisions 20:50:11 ChrisL: we don't put the number in the file 20:50:18 ChrisL: not productive to do that 20:50:28 ChrisL: the same for the test frame 20:50:46 ed: agree 20:51:21 Tav: I tried to add the testing to the rep, but it failed 20:51:58 ed: ChrisLdo you edit the wiki and mention what we do about revision? 20:52:05 ChrisL: I will 20:53:18 … discussion about problems for Tav to submit stuff 20:53:56 ed: back to the requirements 20:53:58 -Tav 20:54:39 +Tav 20:55:09 http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/wiki/SVG2/Testing_Requirements#Test_SVG_File_Template 20:55:21 ed: resolve accept the structure of tests 20:55:26 agreed to the section: Structure after 8 March 2012 telcon 20:56:04 ed: anyone against this template? 20:56:10 silence 20:56:32 resolution: Accept the testing template 20:56:51 topic: Finishing SVG 2 Requirements 20:57:19 http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/wiki/SVG2_Requirements_Input#Xlink_additional_attributes_on_the_.3Ca.3E_element 20:57:49 ChrisL: we should drop xlink on 20:58:09 ed: xlink:title might make sense 20:59:01 s/xlink/xlink:role, xlink:arcrole and xlink:title/ 20:59:22 ChrisL: title element is better than xlink:title 20:59:29 ChrisL: we should use title element 20:59:39 ed: no strong objections 20:59:42 RRSAgent, pointer 20:59:42 See http://www.w3.org/2012/03/08-svg-irc#T20-59-42 20:59:45 ed: fine for ,e 21:00:18 resolution: drop xlink attributes 21:00:42 s/resolution: drop xlink attributes/resolution: drop xlink attributes role, arcole, title/ 21:01:43 resolution: SVG2 will drop xlink attributes role, arcole, title 21:01:45 resolution: SVG 2 will drop the xlink attributes role, arcole, title 21:01:59 rrsagent, here 21:01:59 See http://www.w3.org/2012/03/08-svg-irc#T21-01-59 21:02:11 http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/wiki/SVG2_Requirements_Input#indicating_links 21:02:43 -ChrisL 21:02:44 ChrisL: improve text is fine 21:02:59 http://www.w3.org/TR/SVGMobile12/single-page.html#linking-IndicatingLinks 21:03:23 +ChrisL 21:04:01 ed: we should keep it, but remove xlink:title from the spec 21:04:36 resolution: SVG 2 will include Improved text for the indicating links 21:04:40 resolution: svg2 will port the test from svgt1.2 http://www.w3.org/TR/SVGMobile12/single-page.html#linking-IndicatingLinks 21:04:55 s/test/text/ 21:05:07 ed: next one 21:05:24 new scripting functions 21:05:40 s/function/features/ 21:05:52 topic: Improved text for fragment identifiers link traversal 21:06:31 ed: svg tiny is more simple 21:06:38 ed: on media fragment 21:06:47 ed: they are not incompatible 21:07:23 resolution: svg2 will merge the svg1.1se text and the svgt12 text on fragment identifiers link traversal 21:07:41 oh and add media fragments 21:07:58 ChrisL: what about media fragments? 21:08:03 ed: we should look at it 21:08:10 ed: is part of the same feature 21:08:26 ed: more the same thing 21:08:37 ed: rephrase resolution? 21:08:46 action: chrisl to merge the svg1.1se and svgt1.2 fragment identifier text and consider adding in media fragments for partial images 21:08:46 Created ACTION-3247 - Merge the svg1.1se and svgt1.2 fragment identifier text and consider adding in media fragments for partial images [on Chris Lilley - due 2012-03-15]. 21:09:09 ed: procsessing inline scripts 21:09:34 http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/wiki/SVG2_Requirements_Input#Added_text_for_Processing_Inline_Script 21:09:42 cyril: i expected that there were differences between svg 1.1 and 1.2 tiny 21:09:57 ChrisL: html5 has similar things 21:10:09 ChrisL: we should compatible to html5 21:10:18 ed: reasonable 21:10:26 ChrisL: we should look at it in detail first 21:10:31 ChrisL: needs an action 21:11:02 cyril: we already have a resolution for async,. sooo 21:11:40 ed: the section on tiny is very short 21:11:55 ed: you have to look at the type attribute and so on 21:12:03 ed: there is nothing similar in SVG 1.1 21:12:53 resolution: SVG 2 will define how inline scriptable content will be processed, in compatible way to HTML5 21:13:23 http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/wiki/SVG2_Requirements_Input#script_element_text 21:13:28 ed: new scriptiing features 21:13:46 ed: we should port it over 'script element text' 21:15:42 resolution: SVG 2 will merge SVG1.1SE and SVG 1.2 Tiny on script element text 21:16:19 ed: next one change eirk to SVG WG and copy paste resolution on wiki page 21:16:25 http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/wiki/SVG2_Requirements_Input#Script_Processing 21:16:31 s/eirk/erik/ 21:17:34 RESOLUTION: SVG 2 will use the relevant parts from 1.2T and align with the html script element. 21:18:10 ed: next is animation 21:18:11 http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/wiki/SVG2_Requirements_Input#the_Animations_chapter 21:18:54 erik: svgt1.2 defines what happens when there are errors in a begin-value-list 21:19:37 ed: tiny is more specific what to do on attribute for wrong content 21:21:16 resolution: SVG 2 will apply changes of SVG 1.2 tiny on animation module 21:22:30 resolution: SVG 2 will apply changes from SVG 1.2 tiny to the SVG animation section 21:22:58 ed: fonts are no modification in tiny 21:23:12 http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/wiki/SVG2_Requirements_Input#the_xlink:href_attribute_on_.3CforeignObject.3E 21:23:19 ed extenisibility we have the xlink:href attribute on foreignObject 21:24:47 krit: do we have the same rules like for iframe if we support xlink:href? 21:25:33 ed: customers want to use it for customization 21:26:06 s/for customization/for some magic things, but basically as a plugin frame/ 21:26:43 ed: it would be fine to have it. resolution? 21:27:31 krit: so. should get an action to check security problems 21:27:43 cabanier: most rules of iframe have to apply here as well 21:29:02 resolution: SVG 2 will support xlink:href on fo element after security verification 21:29:19 s/fo/foreignObject/ 21:30:33 action: ed will verify that xlink:href won't introduce security issues on foreignObject 21:30:33 Created ACTION-3248 - Will verify that xlink:href won't introduce security issues on foreignObject [on Erik Dahlström - due 2012-03-15]. 21:31:34 10 items left + 11 without decision 21:32:24 -ed 21:32:25 -krit 21:32:25 -ChrisL 21:32:29 -Tav 21:32:39 -cyril 21:32:40 GA_SVGWG(SVG1)3:00PM has ended 21:32:40 Attendees were +1.415.832.aaaa, +61.2.980.5.aabb, krit, cyril, +33.9.53.77.aacc, Tav, ed, ChrisL 21:33:18 trackbot, end telcon 21:33:18 Zakim, list attendees 21:33:18 sorry, trackbot, I don't know what conference this is 21:33:26 RRSAgent, please draft minutes 21:33:26 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/03/08-svg-minutes.html trackbot 21:33:27 RRSAgent, bye 21:33:27 I see 4 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2012/03/08-svg-actions.rdf : 21:33:27 ACTION: erik will send a mail for time shift and time change [1] 21:33:27 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2012/03/08-svg-irc#T20-17-17 21:33:27 ACTION: ChrisL will edit the wiki page and mention how to add license and copyright [2] 21:33:27 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2012/03/08-svg-irc#T20-49-14 21:33:27 ACTION: chrisl to merge the svg1.1se and svgt1.2 fragment identifier text and consider adding in media fragments for partial images [3] 21:33:27 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2012/03/08-svg-irc#T21-08-46 21:33:27 ACTION: ed will verify that xlink:href won't introduce security issues on foreignObject [4] 21:33:27 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2012/03/08-svg-irc#T21-30-33