IRC log of svg on 2012-03-08

Timestamps are in UTC.

20:02:32 [RRSAgent]: RRSAgent has joined #svg
20:02:32 [RRSAgent]: logging to http://www.w3.org/2012/03/08-svg-irc
20:02:34 [trackbot]: RRSAgent, make logs public
20:02:34 [Zakim]: Zakim has joined #svg
20:02:36 [trackbot]: Zakim, this will be GA_SVGWG
20:02:36 [Zakim]: ok, trackbot, I see GA_SVGWG(SVG1)3:00PM already started
20:02:37 [trackbot]: Meeting: SVG Working Group Teleconference
20:02:37 [trackbot]: Date: 08 March 2012
20:02:50 [krit]: zakim, who is here?
20:02:50 [Zakim]: On the phone I see +1.415.832.aaaa, +61.2.980.5.aabb
20:03:12 [krit]: zakim, aaaa is me
20:03:13 [Zakim]: +krit; got it
20:03:20 [cyril]: zakim, aabb is me
20:03:20 [Zakim]: +cyril; got it
20:03:32 [Zakim]: + +33.9.53.77.aacc
20:03:56 [Tav]: zakim, +33 is me
20:03:56 [Zakim]: +Tav; got it
20:04:57 [krit]: dschulze@adobe.com
20:05:27 [Zakim]: +??P4
20:05:33 [ed]: Zakim, ??P4 is me
20:05:33 [Zakim]: +ed; got it
20:06:08 [ed]: Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2012JanMar/0143.html
20:07:05 [krit]: scribe: krit
20:07:18 [krit]: scribenic: krit
20:07:27 [krit]: scribenick: krit
20:07:51 [ed]: chair: ed
20:08:11 [krit]: ed: first topic time changes
20:08:50 [krit]: ed: australia with the latest change?
20:09:23 [krit]: ed: 3 weeks time all transit. Then we review chnages to times
20:09:37 [ChrisL]: ChrisL has joined #svg
20:10:22 [Zakim]: +ChrisL
20:10:46 [krit]: cyril: I think we should switch to morning in europe
20:10:56 [krit]: Tav: doesn't work for the damn americans
20:11:04 [ChrisL]: lol
20:11:09 [krit]: cyril: doesn't work for east coste
20:11:18 [krit]: cabanier: what about west coast
20:11:25 [krit]: cyril: haha
20:11:26 [cabanier_away]: cabanier_away has joined #svg
20:11:35 [shepazu]: shepazu has joined #svg
20:11:51 [krit]: Tav: 1h later in europe one hour later in australia last year
20:12:03 [ed]: http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/fixedtime.html?month=05&day=01&year=2012&hour=20&min=00&sec=0&p1=0 shows 20.00 UTC May 1, 2012
20:12:42 [krit]: krit: cabanier: 1 hour later is fine for us
20:13:02 [ed]: so, sydney 6am... maybe not great
20:13:03 [krit]: cabanier: 1 earlier is not that good for australia
20:13:16 [krit]: cyril: we should check with cameron
20:13:37 [krit]: krit: stay for now?
20:13:50 [krit]: ed: stay till 3 weeks when all countries switched
20:13:57 [krit]: cyril: 2 more weels
20:14:04 [krit]: s/weels/weeks/
20:14:21 [krit]: ed: keep the time for 2 more weeks
20:15:07 [krit]: … more discussions about time shift
20:15:24 [krit]: ed: no decision now?
20:15:43 [krit]: all: lets stay for the next 2 weeks
20:16:16 [cyril]: zakim, who is noisy?
20:16:29 [Zakim]: cyril, listening for 12 seconds I heard sound from the following: krit (3%)
20:16:55 [krit]: resolution: keep the time for 2 weeks
20:17:17 [krit]: action: erik will send a mail for time shift and time change
20:17:17 [trackbot]: Created ACTION-3245 - Will send a mail for time shift and time change [on Erik Dahlström - due 2012-03-15].
20:17:36 [krit]: next topic: template for tests
20:17:42 [cyril]: zakim, who is noisy?
20:17:44 [krit]: ChrisL: mails on mailing list
20:17:53 [Zakim]: cyril, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: Tav (44%), ed (5%)
20:18:29 [ed]: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2012JanMar/0142.html
20:18:34 [krit]: Tav: cameron said that html tag inside svg and try to add html inside svg you'' break
20:18:56 [krit]: ChrisL: cameron suggested a lot more chnages
20:19:07 [krit]: ChrisL: he seems to wnat to have a whole new layer
20:19:16 [krit]: Tav: link and meta are not part of svg
20:19:27 [krit]: ChrisL: we had a resolution to add them
20:19:34 [krit]: ChrisL: anyway we should ask peter
20:19:45 [krit]: ChrisL: wecould add it to our svg naemspace
20:19:57 [krit]: ed: html5 might break the parsing algorithm there
20:20:05 [cyril]: zakim, who is here?
20:20:05 [Zakim]: On the phone I see krit, cyril, Tav, ed, ChrisL
20:20:56 [krit]: ChrisL: it seems to be a clear resolution that al changes might break html5 parsing. for those test we need something different
20:21:12 [ed]: s/html5 might break the parsing algorithm there/html5's parsing algorithm would break out into html mode if we didn't parent the link and meta elements inside a foreignobject/
20:21:41 [krit]: Tav: cameron suggestions is a bit simplper
20:21:46 [krit]: ChrisL: i didn't like it
20:22:22 [ChrisL]: I think he has oversimplified and it will loose functionality
20:22:35 [krit]: Tav: he is not removing anything
20:22:45 [krit]: Tav: he just implementes in another way
20:23:01 [krit]: Tav: he is just not put html5 into ahead
20:23:02 [krit]: ??
20:23:21 [krit]: Tav: th eproblem with meta tag.
20:23:33 [krit]: Tav: he still has a data tag
20:24:21 [krit]: Tachif an html5 parser finds a link in a svg tag
20:24:27 [krit]: ChrisL: what happens?
20:24:39 [krit]: Tav: I don't know
20:25:02 [krit]: ChrisL: html parser don't care about the tags at all
20:26:07 [cabanier95]: cabanier95 has joined #svg
20:26:09 [krit]: ChrisL: a framwork in place to start writing tests
20:26:28 [krit]: ChrisL: otherwise they don't get it written
20:26:36 [krit]: s/it//
20:26:47 [krit]: ed: I prefer simplified structure
20:26:54 [krit]: ed: no namespaces
20:26:58 [krit]: Tav: I agree
20:27:15 [cabanier]: cabanier has joined #svg
20:27:19 [krit]: ChrisL: we had the test criteria … where did it went?
20:27:38 [krit]: Tav: the test harness has to be modified to do that
20:27:46 [krit]: ChrisL: is that in the head and a meta
20:28:11 [krit]: ChrisL: simplicity is goood
20:28:13 [krit]: but
20:28:39 [krit]: Tav: link to the different parts of the spec
20:28:47 [krit]: Tav: and which parts it needs to pass
20:28:50 [Tav]: http://wiki.csswg.org/test/format
20:29:16 [krit]: Tav: test assertions:
20:29:29 [krit]: ChrisL: it is all in the content attribute
20:29:35 [krit]: ChrisL: no markup at all
20:29:56 [krit]: Tav: above in the spec links, there is a link that tells you what part of the spec gets tested
20:30:01 [krit]: ChrisL: thats fine
20:30:21 [cyril]: http://w3c-test.org/framework/ seems broken
20:30:51 [ed]: the tags that break out of "foreign" mode (aka SVG in html): http://dev.w3.org/html5/spec/Overview.html#parsing-main-inforeign (link is not among those)
20:31:09 [krit]: ChrisL: ok
20:31:40 [krit]: ed: meta does break out
20:31:45 [krit]: Tav: link is ok
20:31:49 [krit]: ed: yes
20:31:59 [krit]: Tav: you still need sth for the tags
20:32:06 [krit]: Tav: description is ok
20:32:32 [krit]: ed: could we use svg metadata element?
20:33:04 [krit]: http://www.w3.org/TR/SVG/metadata.html
20:33:14 [krit]: ed: just sth to put test meta data on
20:33:17 [krit]: ed: should be fine
20:33:24 [krit]: ChrisL: would be fine than
20:33:32 [krit]: ChrisL: peter should know what we want to do
20:34:00 [krit]: ed: metadata should replace meta eleemnt
20:34:20 [krit]: ed: link lists all the tags that break out
20:34:39 [krit]: ed: link element would get unknown svg element
20:34:49 [krit]: ed: needs verification
20:35:37 [krit]: ChrisL: so no other namespace, no head
20:35:42 [krit]: ChrisL: just metadata?
20:36:07 [ed]: http://software.hixie.ch/utilities/js/live-dom-viewer/?%3C!DOCTYPE%20html%3E%0D%0A%3Csvg%3E%0D%0A%3Clink%2F%3E%0D%0A%3Ccircle%20r%3D5%2F%3E%0D%0A%3C%2Fsvg%3E
20:36:38 [krit]: ed: I dont see a circle in opera and safaro
20:36:45 [krit]: s/safaro/safari
20:37:44 [ChrisL]: <!DOCTYPE html>
20:37:44 [ChrisL]: <svg>
20:37:44 [ChrisL]: <link/>
20:37:44 [ChrisL]: <circle r=200>
20:37:59 [krit]: ChrisL: I see the circle in FF with this example
20:38:04 [krit]: cyril: I don't
20:38:10 [thorton]: thorton has joined #svg
20:38:14 [ChrisL]: ff11beta6
20:38:34 [krit]: s/cyril/Tav/
20:38:42 [krit]: ed: I don't see a circle either
20:39:14 [krit]: Tav: now I see
20:39:44 [thorton]: thorton has joined #svg
20:39:52 [krit]: Tav: I put a space before the slash
20:39:53 [ed]: http://software.hixie.ch/utilities/js/live-dom-viewer/?%3C!DOCTYPE%20html%3E%0A%3Csvg%3E%0A%3Clink%2F%3E%0A%3Ccircle%20r%3D100%20%2F%3E%0A%3C%2Fsvg%3E
20:40:25 [krit]: cyril: we should move on
20:40:33 [krit]: ChrisL: we should have a decision
20:40:38 [krit]: ed: link is fine
20:41:13 [krit]: resolution: we will use the link element as proposed. Use metadata instead of head and meta
20:41:34 [ed]: example: instead of <meta name="flags" content="TOKENS" /> we will use <metadata name="flags" content="TOKENS" />
20:42:01 [krit]: Tav: what cameron sugeested with metadat
20:42:02 [krit]: a
20:42:11 [krit]: Tav: basically
20:42:25 [Tav]: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2012JanMar/0142.html
20:42:32 [krit]: ed: something else on his proposal
20:42:41 [krit]: Tav: yes, the very last thing
20:42:47 [krit]: Tav: that we diagree too
20:43:12 [krit]: Tav: other issues with copy right… a list that ChrisL sent
20:44:06 [krit]: ed: i'll send a final proposal to the list
20:44:14 [ChrisL]: http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/wiki/SVG2/Testing_Requirements#Test_SVG_File_Template
20:44:15 [krit]: ed: peter should review
20:44:26 [krit]: ChrisL: ed can you edit the wiki?
20:44:28 [krit]: ed: ok
20:44:50 [krit]: s/ed: i'll send a final proposal to the list/ed: Tav'll send a final proposal to the list/
20:45:03 [ChrisL]: s/ ed can you edit the wiki?/I am editing the wiki
20:45:55 [krit]: ChrisL: metadata for flags
20:45:55 [krit]: ?
20:46:01 [ed]: <metadata name="flags" content="TOKENS" />
20:46:12 [krit]: Tav: the defs tag for the text description
20:46:30 [krit]: s/defs/desc/
20:46:47 [krit]: ed: should it be long or short descr?
20:46:53 [krit]: Tav: as long as you need/
20:47:31 [krit]: ChrisL: if we agree, than we ask peter
20:47:36 [krit]: Tav: ok
20:48:18 [krit]: Tav: what about copyright
20:48:25 [krit]: ed: use BSD for the suite
20:48:44 [krit]: ChrisL: put the license into one place and link to it
20:48:47 [krit]: Tav: I agree
20:49:14 [krit]: action: ChrisL will edit the wiki page and mention how to add license and copyright
20:49:14 [trackbot]: Created ACTION-3246 - Will edit the wiki page and mention how to add license and copyright [on Chris Lilley - due 2012-03-15].
20:49:26 [krit]: Tav: what about revision?
20:49:53 [krit]: Tav: we have version controll system, so no extra revisions
20:50:11 [krit]: ChrisL: we don't put the number in the file
20:50:18 [krit]: ChrisL: not productive to do that
20:50:28 [krit]: ChrisL: the same for the test frame
20:50:46 [krit]: ed: agree
20:51:21 [krit]: Tav: I tried to add the testing to the rep, but it failed
20:51:58 [krit]: ed: ChrisLdo you edit the wiki and mention what we do about revision?
20:52:05 [krit]: ChrisL: I will
20:53:18 [krit]: … discussion about problems for Tav to submit stuff
20:53:56 [krit]: ed: back to the requirements
20:53:58 [Zakim]: -Tav
20:54:39 [Zakim]: +Tav
20:55:09 [ed]: http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/wiki/SVG2/Testing_Requirements#Test_SVG_File_Template
20:55:21 [krit]: ed: resolve accept the structure of tests
20:55:26 [ed]: agreed to the section: Structure after 8 March 2012 telcon
20:56:04 [krit]: ed: anyone against this template?
20:56:10 [krit]: silence
20:56:32 [krit]: resolution: Accept the testing template
20:56:51 [krit]: topic: Finishing SVG 2 Requirements
20:57:19 [cyril]: http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/wiki/SVG2_Requirements_Input#Xlink_additional_attributes_on_the_.3Ca.3E_element
20:57:49 [krit]: ChrisL: we should drop xlink on <a>
20:58:09 [krit]: ed: xlink:title might make sense
20:59:01 [ChrisL]: s/xlink/xlink:role, xlink:arcrole and xlink:title/
20:59:22 [krit]: ChrisL: title element is better than xlink:title
20:59:29 [krit]: ChrisL: we should use title element
20:59:39 [krit]: ed: no strong objections
20:59:42 [cyril]: RRSAgent, pointer
20:59:42 [RRSAgent]: See http://www.w3.org/2012/03/08-svg-irc#T20-59-42
20:59:45 [krit]: ed: fine for ,e
21:00:18 [krit]: resolution: drop xlink attributes
21:00:42 [krit]: s/resolution: drop xlink attributes/resolution: drop xlink attributes role, arcole, title/
21:01:43 [ChrisL]: resolution: SVG2 will drop xlink attributes role, arcole, title
21:01:45 [krit]: resolution: SVG 2 will drop the xlink attributes role, arcole, title
21:01:59 [ChrisL]: rrsagent, here
21:01:59 [RRSAgent]: See http://www.w3.org/2012/03/08-svg-irc#T21-01-59
21:02:11 [ed]: http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/wiki/SVG2_Requirements_Input#indicating_links
21:02:43 [Zakim]: -ChrisL
21:02:44 [krit]: ChrisL: improve text is fine
21:02:59 [cyril]: http://www.w3.org/TR/SVGMobile12/single-page.html#linking-IndicatingLinks
21:03:23 [Zakim]: +ChrisL
21:04:01 [krit]: ed: we should keep it, but remove xlink:title from the spec
21:04:36 [krit]: resolution: SVG 2 will include Improved text for the indicating links
21:04:40 [ChrisL]: resolution: svg2 will port the test from svgt1.2 http://www.w3.org/TR/SVGMobile12/single-page.html#linking-IndicatingLinks
21:04:55 [ChrisL]: s/test/text/
21:05:07 [krit]: ed: next one
21:05:24 [krit]: new scripting functions
21:05:40 [krit]: s/function/features/
21:05:52 [ChrisL]: topic: Improved text for fragment identifiers link traversal
21:06:31 [krit]: ed: svg tiny is more simple
21:06:38 [krit]: ed: on media fragment
21:06:47 [krit]: ed: they are not incompatible
21:07:23 [ChrisL]: resolution: svg2 will merge the svg1.1se text and the svgt12 text on fragment identifiers link traversal
21:07:41 [ChrisL]: oh and add media fragments
21:07:58 [krit]: ChrisL: what about media fragments?
21:08:03 [krit]: ed: we should look at it
21:08:10 [krit]: ed: is part of the same feature
21:08:26 [krit]: ed: more the same thing
21:08:37 [krit]: ed: rephrase resolution?
21:08:46 [ChrisL]: action: chrisl to merge the svg1.1se and svgt1.2 fragment identifier text and consider adding in media fragments for partial images
21:08:46 [trackbot]: Created ACTION-3247 - Merge the svg1.1se and svgt1.2 fragment identifier text and consider adding in media fragments for partial images [on Chris Lilley - due 2012-03-15].
21:09:09 [krit]: ed: procsessing inline scripts
21:09:34 [ed]: http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/wiki/SVG2_Requirements_Input#Added_text_for_Processing_Inline_Script
21:09:42 [krit]: cyril: i expected that there were differences between svg 1.1 and 1.2 tiny
21:09:57 [krit]: ChrisL: html5 has similar things
21:10:09 [krit]: ChrisL: we should compatible to html5
21:10:18 [krit]: ed: reasonable
21:10:26 [krit]: ChrisL: we should look at it in detail first
21:10:31 [krit]: ChrisL: needs an action
21:11:02 [krit]: cyril: we already have a resolution for async,. sooo
21:11:40 [krit]: ed: the section on tiny is very short
21:11:55 [krit]: ed: you have to look at the type attribute and so on
21:12:03 [krit]: ed: there is nothing similar in SVG 1.1
21:12:53 [krit]: resolution: SVG 2 will define how inline scriptable content will be processed, in compatible way to HTML5
21:13:23 [ed]: http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/wiki/SVG2_Requirements_Input#script_element_text
21:13:28 [krit]: ed: new scriptiing features
21:13:46 [krit]: ed: we should port it over 'script element text'
21:15:42 [krit]: resolution: SVG 2 will merge SVG1.1SE and SVG 1.2 Tiny on script element text
21:16:19 [krit]: ed: next one change eirk to SVG WG and copy paste resolution on wiki page
21:16:25 [ed]: http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/wiki/SVG2_Requirements_Input#Script_Processing
21:16:31 [krit]: s/eirk/erik/
21:17:34 [cyril]: RESOLUTION: SVG 2 will use the relevant parts from 1.2T and align with the html script element.
21:18:10 [krit]: ed: next is animation
21:18:11 [ed]: http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/wiki/SVG2_Requirements_Input#the_Animations_chapter
21:18:54 [ChrisL]: erik: svgt1.2 defines what happens when there are errors in a begin-value-list
21:19:37 [krit]: ed: tiny is more specific what to do on attribute for wrong content
21:21:16 [krit]: resolution: SVG 2 will apply changes of SVG 1.2 tiny on animation module
21:22:30 [krit]: resolution: SVG 2 will apply changes from SVG 1.2 tiny to the SVG animation section
21:22:58 [krit]: ed: fonts are no modification in tiny
21:23:12 [ed]: http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/wiki/SVG2_Requirements_Input#the_xlink:href_attribute_on_.3CforeignObject.3E
21:23:19 [krit]: ed extenisibility we have the xlink:href attribute on foreignObject
21:24:47 [krit]: krit: do we have the same rules like for iframe if we support xlink:href?
21:25:33 [krit]: ed: customers want to use it for customization
21:26:06 [krit]: s/for customization/for some magic things, but basically as a plugin frame/
21:26:43 [krit]: ed: it would be fine to have it. resolution?
21:27:31 [krit]: krit: so. should get an action to check security problems
21:27:43 [krit]: cabanier: most rules of iframe have to apply here as well
21:29:02 [krit]: resolution: SVG 2 will support xlink:href on fo element after security verification
21:29:19 [ed]: s/fo/foreignObject/
21:30:33 [krit]: action: ed will verify that xlink:href won't introduce security issues on foreignObject
21:30:33 [trackbot]: Created ACTION-3248 - Will verify that xlink:href won't introduce security issues on foreignObject [on Erik Dahlström - due 2012-03-15].
21:31:34 [krit]: 10 items left + 11 without decision
21:32:24 [Zakim]: -ed
21:32:25 [Zakim]: -krit
21:32:25 [Zakim]: -ChrisL
21:32:29 [Zakim]: -Tav
21:32:39 [Zakim]: -cyril
21:32:40 [Zakim]: GA_SVGWG(SVG1)3:00PM has ended
21:32:40 [Zakim]: Attendees were +1.415.832.aaaa, +61.2.980.5.aabb, krit, cyril, +33.9.53.77.aacc, Tav, ed, ChrisL
21:33:18 [ed]: trackbot, end telcon
21:33:18 [trackbot]: Zakim, list attendees
21:33:18 [Zakim]: sorry, trackbot, I don't know what conference this is
21:33:26 [trackbot]: RRSAgent, please draft minutes
21:33:26 [RRSAgent]: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/03/08-svg-minutes.html trackbot
21:33:27 [trackbot]: RRSAgent, bye
21:33:27 [RRSAgent]: I see 4 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2012/03/08-svg-actions.rdf :
21:33:27 [RRSAgent]: ACTION: erik will send a mail for time shift and time change [1]
21:33:27 [RRSAgent]: recorded in http://www.w3.org/2012/03/08-svg-irc#T20-17-17
21:33:27 [RRSAgent]: ACTION: ChrisL will edit the wiki page and mention how to add license and copyright [2]
21:33:27 [RRSAgent]: recorded in http://www.w3.org/2012/03/08-svg-irc#T20-49-14
21:33:27 [RRSAgent]: ACTION: chrisl to merge the svg1.1se and svgt1.2 fragment identifier text and consider adding in media fragments for partial images [3]
21:33:27 [RRSAgent]: recorded in http://www.w3.org/2012/03/08-svg-irc#T21-08-46
21:33:27 [RRSAgent]: ACTION: ed will verify that xlink:href won't introduce security issues on foreignObject [4]
21:33:27 [RRSAgent]: recorded in http://www.w3.org/2012/03/08-svg-irc#T21-30-33