IRC log of dnt on 2012-03-07

Timestamps are in UTC.

16:50:53 [RRSAgent]
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16:50:53 [RRSAgent]
logging to
16:51:06 [Zakim]
Zakim has joined #dnt
16:51:07 [fielding]
fielding has joined #dnt
16:51:15 [aleecia]
Zakim, this will be dnt
16:51:15 [Zakim]
ok, aleecia; I see T&S_Track(dnt)12:00PM scheduled to start in 9 minutes
16:51:23 [aleecia]
16:51:56 [Zakim]
T&S_Track(dnt)12:00PM has now started
16:52:04 [Zakim]
+ +1.408.674.aaaa
16:52:17 [Zakim]
+ +1.609.981.aabb
16:52:34 [aleecia]
agenda+ Selection of scribe
16:52:42 [aleecia]
zakim, aaaa is aleecia
16:52:42 [Zakim]
+aleecia; got it
16:53:09 [aleecia]
agenda+ Any comments on minutes:
16:53:24 [aleecia]
agenda+ TPE discussion
16:53:38 [aleecia]
agenda+ Compliance discussion
16:53:51 [npdoty]
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16:53:56 [tl]
Zakim, aabb is tl.
16:53:56 [Zakim]
+tl; got it
16:54:00 [aleecia]
agenda+ (if time allows) Review of overdue action items:
16:54:07 [Zakim]
16:54:20 [aleecia]
agenda+ (if time allows) Creation of new actions for TPE
16:54:21 [tl]
Just like last week, and every other week, so I'm not sure why this is a surprise to you
16:54:34 [aleecia]
agenda+ Announce next meeting & adjourn
16:54:43 [aleecia]
Zakim's forgotten me too
16:55:10 [Zakim]
16:55:16 [tl]
Zakim, I thought we were friends!
16:55:16 [Zakim]
I don't understand 'I thought we were friends!', tl
16:55:18 [aleecia]
We've all made the obvious DNT and personalization jokes until we're done, right?
16:55:25 [tl]
Zakim, that much is obvious!
16:55:25 [Zakim]
I don't understand 'that much is obvious!', tl
16:56:07 [tl]
I want a site-specific exception for Zakim. I feel like Zakim and I have a special bond.
16:56:20 [tl]
Sometimes it feels like an abusive relationship though.
16:56:35 [aleecia]
You take, take, take: what have you ever done for Zakim?
16:57:26 [tl]
All I ever give is love an affection, and Zakim manipulates me cruelly.
16:57:32 [aleecia]
Alas - watching relatives age, that flag is implemented on older models.
16:58:07 [npdoty]
rrsagent, pointer?
16:58:07 [RRSAgent]
16:58:13 [johnsimpson]
johnsimpson has joined #dnt
16:58:20 [npdoty]
rrsagent, make logs public
16:58:23 [alex_]
alex_ has joined #dnt
16:58:27 [aleecia]
Oops - thanks Nick
16:58:54 [aleecia]
Hi, Matthias!
16:59:02 [dsinger]
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16:59:04 [Zakim]
+ +1.310.392.aacc
16:59:14 [npdoty]
Meeting: Tracking Protection Working Group teleconference
16:59:16 [aleecia]
Hi, who's in 310?
16:59:22 [Zakim]
+ +1.813.366.aadd
16:59:24 [aleecia]
Chair: schunter
16:59:34 [aleecia]
Hi, who's calling in from 813?
16:59:40 [johnsimpson]
zakim 310.392.aacc is johnsimpson
16:59:48 [alex_]
zakim, aadd is alex
16:59:48 [Zakim]
+alex; got it
16:59:52 [npdoty]
Zakim, aacc is johnsimpson
16:59:52 [Zakim]
+johnsimpson; got it
16:59:54 [WileyS]
WileyS has joined #DNT
17:00:00 [aleecia]
Thanks, John & Alex!
17:00:04 [jchester2]
jchester2 has joined #dnt
17:00:05 [dsriedel]
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17:00:17 [Zakim]
+ +1.415.520.aaee
17:00:19 [aleecia]
90% regrets sounds like a night of parties
17:00:22 [npdoty]
Zakim, who's on the phone?
17:00:22 [Zakim]
On the phone I see aleecia, tl, ??P21, npdoty, johnsimpson, alex, +1.415.520.aaee
17:00:32 [aleecia]
Hi, who's calling in from 415?
17:00:36 [npdoty]
Zakim, ??P21 is schunter
17:00:36 [Zakim]
+schunter; got it
17:00:41 [Zakim]
+ +1.617.863.aaff
17:00:46 [Zakim]
+ +1.301.270.aagg
17:00:57 [wseltzer]
zakim, aaff is wseltzer
17:00:57 [johnsimpson]
zakim, mute me
17:00:57 [Zakim]
+wseltzer; got it
17:00:57 [Zakim]
johnsimpson should now be muted
17:01:19 [jchester2]
zakim, please mute me
17:01:19 [Zakim]
sorry, jchester2, I do not know which phone connection belongs to you
17:01:29 [Zakim]
+ +49.721.913.74.aahh
17:01:39 [jchester2]
jchester 2+301-270-3938
17:01:40 [dsriedel]
zakim, aahh is dsriedel
17:01:40 [Zakim]
+dsriedel; got it
17:01:45 [dsriedel]
zakim, mute me
17:01:45 [Zakim]
dsriedel should now be muted
17:01:53 [jmayer]
jmayer has joined #dnt
17:01:58 [aleecia]
zakim, aagg is jchester2
17:01:58 [Zakim]
+jchester2; got it
17:02:07 [BrianTs]
BrianTs has joined #dnt
17:02:10 [Zakim]
+ +1.202.684.aaii
17:02:16 [Zakim]
+ +1.714.852.aajj
17:02:21 [jchester2]
17:02:21 [Zakim]
+ +1.617.733.aakk
17:02:23 [cOlsen]
cOlsen has joined #dnt
17:02:28 [justin_]
justin_ has joined #dnt
17:02:28 [npdoty]
Zakim, mute jchester2
17:02:30 [Zakim]
jchester2 should now be muted
17:02:32 [Zakim]
+ +1.813.366.aall
17:02:43 [fielding]
Zakim, aajj is fielding
17:02:45 [Zakim]
+fielding; got it
17:02:48 [aleecia]
I could scribe the first half
17:02:55 [aleecia]
If you find someone during the compliance side
17:03:01 [jmayer]
I am.
17:03:05 [aleecia]
Jonathan has to go to class, though
17:03:06 [Zakim]
17:03:06 [jmayer]
But I have to go in about 15 minutes.
17:03:15 [Zakim]
+ +1.202.326.aamm
17:03:15 [Zakim]
+ +1.206.369.aann
17:03:18 [Zakim]
+ +1.202.637.aaoo
17:03:25 [schunter]
who is online?
17:03:25 [aleecia]
Justin, care to split it?
17:03:34 [andyzei]
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17:03:49 [tedleung]
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17:03:57 [npdoty]
andyzei, can you scribe?
17:04:02 [justin_]
Zakim, aaoo is justin_
17:04:02 [Zakim]
+justin_; got it
17:04:04 [schunter]
Zakim, who is online?
17:04:04 [Zakim]
I don't understand your question, schunter.
17:04:18 [aleecia]
Why don't I scribe for the first part, hand off late
17:04:21 [aleecia]
17:04:29 [wseltzer]
I'll take a hand-off mid-way
17:04:29 [npdoty]
scribenick: aleecia
17:04:33 [aleecia]
17:04:35 [tl]
It's the quiet ones you have yo watch out for.
17:04:52 [npdoty]
Zakim, take up agendum 1
17:04:52 [Zakim]
agendum 1. "Selection of scribe" taken up [from aleecia]
17:04:57 [aleecia]
schunter: minutes? No comments, approved.
17:04:58 [npdoty]
Zakim, take up agendum 2
17:04:58 [Zakim]
agendum 2. "Any comments on minutes:" taken up [from aleecia]
17:05:00 [ac]
ac has joined #dnt
17:05:05 [npdoty]
Zakim, take up agendum 3
17:05:06 [Zakim]
agendum 3. "TPE discussion" taken up [from aleecia]
17:05:10 [Zakim]
+ +1.516.695.aapp
17:05:33 [aleecia]
schunter: Starting with TPE doc, then Compliance, then action item review if time
17:05:35 [Zakim]
+ +1.408.349.aaqq
17:05:45 [WileyS]
Zakim, aaqq is WileyS
17:05:45 [Zakim]
+WileyS; got it
17:05:50 [aleecia]
schunter: Reviewing TPE, start from the top.
17:05:52 [hefferjr]
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17:06:21 [npdoty]
dsinger, are you well-rested and have a summary?
17:06:30 [aleecia]
… Editors, summary since last week?
17:06:33 [Lia]
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17:07:04 [aleecia]
Roy: Last night, changes from Nick for JS
17:07:06 [ChrisPedigoOPA]
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17:07:32 [aleecia]
… site-specific changes. Andy's on fingerprinting to make requirements language consistent
17:07:44 [npdoty]
that was the proposal that Tom sent out last week in Markdown, fyi
17:08:16 [kj]
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17:08:20 [aleecia]
… trimmed introduction closer to David's suggestions; added most of JohnS, combined with (mumble) privacy paper
17:08:50 [adrianba]
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17:08:53 [aleecia]
…cleaned up intro before header proposal; wasn't needed any more
17:09:19 [aleecia]
… re-org'ed header proposal into sections, easier to read.
17:09:25 [KevinT]
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17:09:45 [npdoty]
s/(mumble)/citation to KnowPrivacy/
17:09:57 [fielding]
17:09:58 [aleecia]
17:10:18 [aleecia]
schunter: Things you cannot publish, please raise.
17:10:27 [aleecia]
… Think we could publish as it stands
17:10:50 [aleecia]
… Introduction shortened. Ok as is?
17:10:51 [bryan]
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17:11:00 [aleecia]
Nick: CG issue here, should we mark it?
17:11:05 [aleecia]
Roy: Do we have an issue?
17:11:09 [aleecia]
Nick: no, should we?
17:11:11 [WileyS]
The only critical item in the TPE draft for us is the prohibition on server-side polling of site-specific exceptions. Uses cases were sent via email and I'll provide alternate text to the digitial fingerprinting concerns to remove that prohibition.
17:11:12 [aleecia]
17:11:15 [aleecia]
17:11:26 [Zakim]
17:11:31 [jchester2]
17:11:36 [aleecia]
schunter: issue was didn't value privacy enough
17:11:38 [npdoty]
17:11:39 [jchester2]
zakim, unmute me
17:11:39 [Zakim]
jchester2 should no longer be muted
17:11:46 [npdoty]
ack aleecia
17:11:49 [Zakim]
+ +1.202.744.aarr
17:11:50 [bryan]
present+ Bryan_Sullivan
17:11:53 [schunter]
17:11:53 [johnsimpson]
17:11:54 [Zakim]
17:11:54 [Zakim]
+ +385221aass
17:12:09 [johnsimpson]
zakim, unmute me
17:12:09 [Zakim]
johnsimpson should no longer be muted
17:12:12 [schunter]
17:12:21 [ksmith]
ksmith has joined #DNT
17:12:27 [amyc]
amyc has joined #dnt
17:12:30 [npdoty]
aleecia: on our agenda to review and respond to Community Group after publishing these documents
17:12:48 [JC]
JC has joined #DNT
17:12:49 [aleecia]
jchester2: improved, but comments in the CG need to be ack'ed in some way
17:12:54 [npdoty]
ack jchester2
17:12:57 [npdoty]
ack jchester
17:12:59 [npdoty]
17:13:00 [aleecia]
(is mentioned in the Compliance doc)
17:13:05 [jchester2]
zakim, mute me
17:13:05 [Zakim]
jchester2 should now be muted
17:13:09 [aleecia]
(perhaps good to add here)
17:13:18 [Zakim]
17:13:22 [schunter]
ack jchester
17:13:24 [aleecia]
schunter: need to add CG issues to tracker
17:13:25 [vicnent]
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17:13:26 [schunter]
17:13:27 [jchester2]
I agree. Thanks. Make formal issues
17:13:29 [aleecia]
17:13:31 [Zakim]
+ +1.202.326.aatt
17:13:35 [npdoty]
ack johnsimpson
17:13:54 [aleecia]
johnsimpson: getting closer, progress.
17:14:20 [aleecia]
… This intro seems similar to compliance language. Final rec should have one?
17:14:28 [aleecia]
(or: could have them the same)
17:14:44 [aleecia]
schunter: both should have intro, should be self-contained, could be identical
17:14:47 [aleecia]
17:14:48 [efelten]
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17:15:00 [aleecia]
… wouldn't mind if identical
17:15:11 [aleecia]
… then a note on which doc does what
17:15:15 [tl]
17:15:22 [schunter]
17:15:23 [npdoty]
ack aleecia
17:15:26 [schunter]
ack aleecia
17:15:28 [efelten_]
efelten_ has joined #dnt
17:15:45 [Zakim]
17:16:12 [aleecia]
aleecia: let's copy & paste into compliance, unless there's something there people want to keep
17:16:19 [npdoty]
no objections on all of chapter 2!
17:16:24 [aleecia]
schunter: other feedback on intro? No? ready to publish
17:16:24 [schunter]
17:16:40 [aleecia]
… nothing on section 2, ready to publish
17:16:45 [lauren]
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17:16:46 [aleecia]
… section 3, ready to publish
17:16:58 [Zakim]
+ +1.206.910.aauu
17:17:01 [schunter]
17:17:02 [aleecia]
… section 4, 4.1 Expression Format
17:17:16 [npdoty]
editors have added a pointer to issue-111 here (do we want a dnt:2?)
17:17:38 [aleecia]
…4.2, syntax
17:17:46 [Zakim]
+ +1.215.286.aavv
17:17:51 [amyc]
17:17:54 [aleecia]
… no comments
17:18:01 [aleecia]
… 4.3, any comments?
17:18:04 [Zakim]
+ +1.202.346.aaww
17:18:10 [aleecia]
Amyc: link?
17:18:13 [wseltzer]
17:18:13 [npdoty]
17:18:16 [aleecia]
17:18:17 [tl]
17:18:19 [hwest]
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17:18:40 [aleecia]
Nick, 111?
17:18:54 [aleecia]
schunter: 4.3, any comments?
17:18:58 [tl]
Well, aren't we just a bunch of pointdexters. We can all stay behind after class to clean the erasers.
17:19:04 [aleecia]
Shane: open issue on server side?
17:19:25 [aleecia]
… section 6, no problem
17:19:26 [fielding]
we are looking at revision 1.97 date: 2012/03/07 13:37:42;
17:19:39 [aleecia]
… will raise later in the document, issue-111
17:19:39 [Zakim]
+ +1.206.619.aaxx
17:19:48 [npdoty]
WileyS, editors have added pointers to 111 around the DNT:2 question, which has server-side impact
17:19:53 [andyzei]
zakim, aaxx is andyzei
17:19:53 [Zakim]
+andyzei; got it
17:19:54 [aleecia]
schunter: 4.3 comments? None. 4.4?
17:20:01 [Zakim]
- +1.202.346.aaww
17:20:14 [tl]
17:20:14 [aleecia]
… 4.5 is new. Language from David Singer.
17:20:25 [aleecia]
4.5 Tracking Preference Expressed in Other Protocols
17:20:25 [aleecia]
A user's tracking preference is intended to apply in general, regardless of the protocols being used for Internet communication. The protocol expressed here is specific to HTTP communication; however, the semantics are not restricted to use in HTTP; the same semantics may be carried by other protocols, either in future revisions of this specification, or in other specifications.
17:20:25 [aleecia]
When it is known that the user's preference is for no tracking, compliant services are still required to honor that preference, even if other protocols are used. For example, re-directing to another protocol in order to avoid receipt of the header is not compliant.
17:20:35 [aleecia]
schunter: comments?
17:20:42 [aleecia]
tl: comment on 4.4
17:20:52 [rvaneijk]
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17:20:57 [fielding]
right, TBD
17:21:02 [aleecia]
… last sentence Therefore, we will define here various mechanisms for communicating the tracking preference via common plug-in APIs.
17:21:05 [Zakim]
+ +31.65.141.aayy
17:21:17 [rvaneijk]
zakim, aayy is rvaneijk
17:21:17 [Zakim]
+rvaneijk; got it
17:21:20 [aleecia]
… task we could drop if it doesn't look like it's getting done before due date
17:21:25 [aleecia]
… can leave to browsers
17:21:38 [aleecia]
… no great loss if we fail to get to this
17:21:58 [aleecia]
Roy: If we fail to do that, plug-ins cannot adhere to the protocol
17:22:22 [aleecia]
schunter: replace with - browser vendors should look into way to do this, rather than standardized
17:22:27 [aleecia]
tl: yep, sure
17:22:29 [jchester2]
I think we should try and develop the API parameters
17:22:33 [aleecia]
Roy: nice theory, don't see it works
17:22:46 [npdoty]
tl, do you want to change the text here right now?
17:22:49 [aleecia]
… don't see a need to change this now, but if we don't have an API next time, sure
17:22:56 [aleecia]
tl: let's just add a note to that
17:22:57 [amyc]
17:23:00 [dsinger]
this text is about protocols, not APIs.
17:23:11 [dsinger]
we're talking about FTP or ...
17:23:14 [aleecia]
schunter: drop the sentence, raise issue of what we should say here on right api approach
17:23:20 [aleecia]
Roy: fine
17:23:24 [tl]
npdoty: "Note: this task is not of critical priority."
17:23:26 [aleecia]
17:23:31 [dsinger]
yes, we have an API issue with plug-ins; they need to know the DNT status
17:23:59 [aleecia]
amyc: would this apply to applications on the same machine where the DNT pref in the browser or HTML app, where the app isn't receiving DNT signal?
17:24:24 [aleecia]
tl: exciting adventure we can play, there are implementations that might work. Best to focus on other pieces first.
17:24:28 [Zakim]
- +1.202.684.aaii
17:24:31 [npdoty]
Mozilla's Boot-to-Gecko is a relevant example there (for OS-level communication), for example
17:24:53 [aleecia]
amyc: sounds right to me too, seems difficult communicating to other apps that exist
17:25:04 [aleecia]
tl: advert for B2G
17:25:21 [aleecia]
schunter: think we agree
17:25:31 [aleecia]
so we're adding a note?
17:25:36 [fielding]
back to 4.5
17:25:50 [tl]
I'm fine with just a note.
17:26:00 [tl]
17:26:06 [schunter]
action: fielding to remove last sentence in 4.4 + add a note instead
17:26:06 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-144 - Remove last sentence in 4.4 + add a note instead [on Roy Fielding - due 2012-03-14].
17:26:06 [tl]
Lets move on.
17:26:06 [johnsimpson]
+1 to note
17:26:15 [aleecia]
schunter: adding a note, removing last sentence - action for Roy
17:26:22 [aleecia]
17:26:42 [aleecia]
… completes section 4, can publish with single change.
17:26:56 [aleecia]
… section 5, Communicating a Tracking Status
17:27:25 [tl]
17:27:32 [aleecia]
… two proposals, 5.1 Tracking Status Resource and 5.2 Tk Header Field for HTTP Responses
17:27:50 [npdoty]
17:27:57 [aleecia]
…comments on 5.1 as a whole?
17:28:13 [aleecia]
tl: conversation with Roy, hope to compromise without contention
17:28:19 [aleecia]
…working on writing that text
17:28:31 [fielding]
for after this WD
17:28:32 [chapell]
chapell has joined #DNT
17:28:35 [aleecia]
… if it matches what Roy thinks, we can all go play with unicorns and so forth
17:29:14 [aleecia]
tom, please summarize this: I went to fix a typo and lost context
17:29:48 [aleecia]
schunter: won't get in for WD in time, but this is good news
17:29:53 [aleecia]
request: add a note?
17:29:53 [Zakim]
- +1.516.695.aapp
17:29:57 [johnsimpson]
+ to publish as is.
17:30:04 [schunter]
17:30:08 [tl]
ack tl
17:30:10 [npdoty]
I'd want to see the specific text, but a compromise that uses a header for signaling something that has changed in real time sounds promising to me
17:30:12 [fielding]
tl, I think we agreed that the header would be optional (MAY) unless a change was just made to status, but we can work on that after the WD
17:30:14 [tl]
Yes, let's add a note.
17:30:14 [aleecia]
let's let people know we're close
17:30:26 [aleecia]
tom, could you draft a note?
17:30:30 [amyc]
17:30:31 [aleecia]
perhaps in real time?
17:30:36 [tl]
Yes, action me up!
17:30:43 [aleecia]
was hoping for Right Now :-)
17:30:59 [aleecia]
schunter: yes, let's add a note. comments on 5.1?
17:31:10 [aleecia]
schunter: 5.2 comments?
17:31:27 [tl]
give me a sec
17:31:33 [aleecia]
schunter 5.3?
17:31:33 [npdoty]
do we need an open issue for 5.3?
17:31:42 [aleecia]
5.3 Status Code for Tracking Required
17:31:43 [aleecia]
An HTTP error response status code might be useful for indicating that the site refuses service unless the user either logs into a subscription account or agrees to an exception to DNT for this site and its contracted third-party sites.
17:32:01 [aleecia]
npdoty: there's an open issue for 5.3, should we add it to the doc?
17:32:13 [aleecia]
schunter: don't know?
17:32:38 [aleecia]
npdoty: didn't even get far enough we could have it contested
17:32:42 [fielding]
this has not changed since FPWD, so let's keep it as is.
17:32:51 [aleecia]
schunter: "might be useful" isn't the right final language either
17:33:04 [aleecia]
… leave it as it is, but should raise an issue to come back to this later
17:33:10 [aleecia]
(could we add the issue to the doc?)
17:33:25 [aleecia]
schunter: any other objections? Ok, 5 is done, section 6
17:33:39 [npdoty]
issue: HTTP error status code to signal that tracking is required?
17:33:58 [aleecia]
… Site-specific Exceptions and JS API, Nick and Shane
17:34:09 [aleecia]
… any objections to section 6?
17:34:10 [npdoty]
WileyS, you had issues here?
17:34:17 [aleecia]
… as a whole?
17:34:17 [enewland]
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17:34:22 [WileyS]
No issue
17:34:27 [aleecia]
17:34:28 [trackbot]
Created ISSUE-128 - HTTP error status code to signal that tracking is required? ; please complete additional details at .
17:34:30 [trackbot]
ISSUE-111 -- Signaling state/existence of site-specific exceptions -- open
17:34:30 [trackbot]
17:34:37 [Zakim]
17:34:42 [WileyS]
The open issue is listed that I was looking for - I was looking for it in the wrong place :-)
17:34:45 [aleecia]
schunter: we're done, two minor changes
17:34:45 [schunter]
17:34:56 [npdoty]
great, WileyS, thanks
17:34:57 [aleecia]
… we're ready to make fixes and publish
17:34:58 [tl]
Note: We are currently working on a proposal which combines the Tk: response header and Tracking Status Resource. It would make the TSR compulsory and the Tk: header optional. However, it would be required to use the Tk: header to notify the user when something in the TSR has changed in real time.
17:35:19 [npdoty]
scribenick: wseltzer
17:35:23 [npdoty]
Zakim, next agendum
17:35:23 [Zakim]
agendum 1. "Selection of scribe" taken up [from aleecia]
17:35:25 [tl]
fielding: ^ Also, I added a proposed note on the Plugin API to you action for that.
17:35:28 [aleecia]
17:35:43 [npdoty]
Zakim, take up agendum 4
17:35:43 [Zakim]
agendum 4. "Compliance discussion" taken up [from aleecia]
17:35:49 [fielding]
tl, I just finished adding one to the spec
17:35:56 [wseltzer]
aleecia: Moving to the Compliance Document
17:36:26 [aleecia]
Notes to new readers: this document is a snapshot of live discussions within the Tracking Protection Working Group. It does not capture all of our work. For example, we have issues that are [PENDING REVIEW] with complete text proposals that did not make it into this draft. Text in white is typically [CLOSED]: we have reached a consensus decision. Text in blue boxes presents multiple options the group is considering. In some cases we are close to agreement, and
17:36:26 [aleecia]
others we have more to discuss.
17:36:41 [tl]
fielding: Don't see it?
17:36:41 [WileyS]
17:36:43 [wseltzer]
... Introduction: additions: Notes to new readers.
17:36:55 [fielding]
testing first, then commit
17:36:55 [Zakim]
- +1.215.286.aavv
17:36:57 [aleecia]
We have not reviewed comments from the Community Group associated with this work. We thank them for their time and detailed feedback, and will address their comments in the near future.
17:37:11 [npdoty]
minor editing, worth making the Note to new readers a boxed "Note"
17:37:17 [wseltzer]
... Second note: Community Group comments have not yet been incorporated.
17:37:28 [tl]
17:37:35 [wseltzer]
... accept Nick's "Note" note.
17:37:52 [npdoty]
look good to me
17:37:52 [johnsimpson]
both good
17:37:53 [wseltzer]
... No objections seen.
17:38:08 [tl]
fielding: Is your note live?
17:38:15 [npdoty]
fielding, dsinger, moving these notes to TPE?
17:38:25 [wseltzer]
schunter: OK to add to DNT doc as well.
17:38:30 [fielding]
sorry, I am lost
17:38:36 [wseltzer]
aleecia: Scope and goals. Sec 2.1
17:38:46 [fielding]
will take action from matthias
17:38:59 [npdoty]
17:39:06 [aleecia]
While there are a variety of business models to monetize content on the web, many rely on advertising. Advertisements can be targeted to a particular user's interests based on information gathered about one's online activity. While the Internet industry believes many users appreciate such targeted advertising, as well as other personalized content, there is also an understanding that some people find the practice intrusive. If this opinion becomes widespread, i
17:39:06 [aleecia]
could undermine the trust necessary to conduct business on the Internet. This Compliance specification and a companion [TRACKING-DNT] specification are intended to give users a means to indicate their tracking preference and to spell out the obligations of compliant websites that receive the Do Not Track message. The goal is to provide the user with choice, while allowing practices necessary for a smoothly functioning Internet. This should be a win-win for busi
17:39:06 [aleecia]
and consumers alike. The Internet brings millions of users and web sites together in a vibrant and rich ecosystem. As the sophistication of the Internet has grown, so too has its complexity which leaves all but the most technically savvy unable to deeply understand how web sites collect and use data about their online interactions. While on the surface many web sites may appear to be served by a single entity, in fact, many web sites are an assembly of multiple
17:39:11 [aleecia]
parties coming together to power a user’s online experience. As an additional privacy tool, this specification provides both the technical and compliance guidelines to enable the online ecosystem to further empower users with the ability to communicate a tracking preferences to a web site and its partners.
17:39:16 [WileyS]
17:39:19 [wseltzer]
... Suggesting we sync from DNT doc, killing this paragraph.
17:39:25 [johnsimpson]
OK with that
17:39:27 [wseltzer]
... no objections.
17:39:29 [jchester2]
I am ok with that
17:39:58 [wseltzer]
@@: can we move 2 paragraphs to status section?
17:39:58 [WileyS]
We should mirror the approach in both documents
17:40:05 [npdoty]
"status of this document" section for both documents
17:40:08 [npdoty]
17:40:11 [WileyS]
Consistency on shared elements is good
17:40:26 [wseltzer]
aleecia: ok.
17:40:29 [tl]
fielding: Did you add notes to DNT?
17:40:50 [Zakim]
17:40:50 [aleecia]
3.2.1 Option 1: User Expectations
17:40:53 [Zakim]
- +1.206.910.aauu
17:41:06 [aleecia]
3.2.2 Option 2: Discoverable Affiliates
17:41:07 [tl]
17:41:09 [wseltzer]
... Sec. 3; 3.2.1 Options: change to give them names.
17:41:24 [WileyS]
Where is the draft text that Amy and I came up with?
17:41:39 [WileyS]
Was more text than that
17:41:50 [wseltzer]
... That became Option 2
17:41:54 [WileyS]
17:42:07 [aleecia] Option 2: Affiliates
17:42:10 [npdoty] I think also comes from WileyS and AmyC
17:42:14 [amyc]
17:42:33 [wseltzer]
amyc: we can delete the ...
17:43:03 [wseltzer]
... Defintion isn't solely focused on affiliates. Suggests "Discoverable ownership and affiliates"
17:43:03 [npdoty]
"Discoverable Ownership and Affiliates" for 3.2.2
17:43:31 [wseltzer]
aleecia: Will accept the original authors' suggestion for title
17:43:36 [amyc]
nick beat me to it
17:43:48 [tl]
s/"amyc: we can delete the ..."/"amyc: we can delete the ellipsis, replace with period."
17:43:58 [WileyS]
I default to Amy but I think yes
17:44:07 [wseltzer]
... remove "or ...."
17:44:14 [aleecia] Option 2: Affiliates
17:44:38 [wseltzer]
aleecia: We now have two parallel proposals; Jonathan & Tom, and Shane & Amy.
17:44:50 [dsriedel]
Would there be time to elaborate a bit on "similar services" in Option 2: Affiliates?
17:45:15 [wseltzer]
... We will need to resolve these; this doc shows the public our thinking.
17:45:45 [wseltzer]
... Clearly we're not done with either of these texts, but in good shape to publish as draft.
17:45:47 [npdoty]
dsriedel, what's your question there?
17:45:51 [aleecia]
3.3.2 Data Controller and Processor
17:46:13 [aleecia]
For the EU, the outsourcing scenario is clearly regulated. In the current EU Directive 95/46/EC, but also in the suggested regulation reforming the data protection regime, an entity using or processing data is subject to data protection law. A First Party (EU: data controller) is an entity or multiple entities (EU: joint data controller) who determines the purposes, conditions and means of the data processing will be the data controller. A service provider (EU:
17:46:13 [aleecia]
processor) is an entity with a legal contractual relation to the Data Controller. The Service Provider does determine the purposes, conditions and means of the data processing, but processes data on behalf of the controller. The data processor acts on behalf of the data controller and is a separate legal entity. An entity acting as a first party and contracting services of another party is responsible for the overall processing. A third party is an entity with
17:46:14 [aleecia]
contractual relation to the Data Controller and no specific legitimacy or authorization in processing personal data. If the third party has own rights and privileges concerning the processing of the data collected by the first party, it isn't a data processor anymore and thus not covered by exemptions. This third party is then considered as a second data controller with all duties attached to that status. As the pretensions of users are based on law, they apply
17:46:19 [aleecia]
first and third party alike unless the third party acts as a mere data processor.
17:46:26 [wseltzer]
... text not final; may wind up in a different doc or place.
17:46:48 [dsriedel]
@npdoty: Well, we were wondering where to draw the line, seperating ads from widgets. As every ad is a potential widget, something the user can interact with.
17:46:55 [tl]
17:46:56 [wseltzer]
... thanks Rob and Rigo.
17:47:07 [tl]
ack amy
17:47:11 [amyc]
17:47:13 [aleecia]
ack tl
17:47:25 [aleecia]
We will need an entire section, or perhaps another document, to address DNT in various countries and regions. While we cannot provide legal advice, we can provide pointers to more information. A small subset of the group is working on this task. The text that follows may move elsewhere.
17:48:01 [aleecia]
, or not make the final document
17:48:06 [wseltzer]
tl: Note on 3.3.2 is different from agreement I recall. Suggest adding "text may not make the final document"
17:48:13 [npdoty]
"move elsewhere or be removed."
17:48:14 [amyc]
17:48:22 [tl]
+1 to npdoty
17:48:26 [wseltzer]
aleecia: We do have some uncertainty here.
17:48:36 [npdoty]
rvaneijk, does that sound good to you?
17:48:48 [rvaneijk]
I am fine with the addition to the note
17:48:48 [aleecia]
, or be removed
17:48:50 [WileyS]
17:48:59 [aleecia]
edit the note as such
17:49:01 [johnsimpson]
17:49:26 [aleecia]
A "network interaction" is an HTTP request and response, or any other set of logically related network traffic.
17:49:43 [wseltzer]
aleecia: 3.4. Any objections to changing set to sequence?
17:49:46 [tl]
Fine by me.
17:49:53 [johnsimpson]
+1 to sequence
17:50:02 [wseltzer]
... no objections. Close note, change text.
17:50:04 [tl]
17:50:10 [aleecia]
3.4.2 Non-Normative Discussion
17:50:29 [wseltzer]
... hasn't changed.
17:50:37 [wseltzer]
... 3.5, also unchanged
17:50:52 [wseltzer]
... 3.6, also unchanged
17:51:05 [aleecia]
We are still working through how, or if, to define tracking. Some suggest the phrase "cross-site tracking" only. We will need to ensure both final recommendations use the same terms in the same way.
17:51:11 [wseltzer]
... 3.7, mostly format changes. New note ^
17:51:28 [justin_]
Looks good
17:51:34 [wseltzer]
... no objections.
17:51:45 [aleecia]
3.7.1 Option 1: Non-first Party Identifiers
17:51:51 [wseltzer]
... 3 options for tracking, now given names.
17:51:55 [aleecia]
3.7.2 Option 2: Cross-site or Over Time
17:51:58 [vincent]
vincent has joined #dnt
17:52:04 [aleecia]
3.7.3 Option 3: Silence
17:52:32 [tl]
The rest, is silence.
17:52:35 [wseltzer]
... 3.8, boxes seeking names
17:52:37 [WileyS]
17:52:39 [npdoty]
"What we cannot speak about we must pass over in silence."
17:52:45 [npdoty]
ack WileyS
17:52:48 [aleecia]
ack WileyS
17:53:09 [wseltzer]
WileyS: Where is the Belgium text?
17:53:27 [wseltzer]
aleecia: different section, 4.1
17:53:40 [ac]
ac has joined #dnt
17:53:44 [aleecia]
Wording needs polish to ensure it works with accessibility issues, but other than minor edits this is agreed upon.
17:53:53 [wseltzer]
aleecia: 3.9, added note ^
17:54:06 [wseltzer]
... 3.10, 3.11 locked down for a while.
17:54:10 [WileyS]
The main issue for me is that IE does not render the section IDs when viewing the documents. Which browser should I use?
17:54:15 [wseltzer]
... final call for Sec 3.
17:54:24 [johnsimpson]
+1 to publish sec. 3
17:54:26 [tl]
WileyS: Firefox, obviously.
17:54:29 [tl]
Now for the "fun" part.
17:54:32 [WileyS]
LOL - okay, I'll try that
17:54:33 [aleecia]
4. Compliance with an expressed tracking preference
17:55:09 [wseltzer]
... Sec 4.1, captures 5 different approaches discussed in Belgium.
17:55:23 [tl]
+1 ! <3 Blue boxes!
17:55:27 [WileyS]
MUCH better in FF - thank you Tom. :-)
17:55:30 [wseltzer]
... might put the entire thing in a blue box, but not 5 blue boxes.
17:55:48 [tl]
WileyS: I take personal responsibility =p
17:56:08 [aleecia]
add big blue box to 4.1
17:56:09 [WileyS]
17:56:26 [aleecia]
ack WileyS
17:56:36 [johnsimpson]
17:56:41 [wseltzer]
WileyS: Should we give these names as well? Still don't see all the Belgium text.
17:56:46 [aleecia]
note that not all text is here
17:57:08 [tl]
npdoty: Is there a CSS3 option to make the blue boxes larger on the inside?
17:57:31 [johnsimpson]
17:57:43 [npdoty]
17:57:43 [wseltzer]
aleecia: Trying to keep this small, readable; but there is text that's not here.
17:57:46 [aleecia]
ack johnsimpson
17:58:06 [aleecia]
editors did the editing down to these 5, and I think they did a nice job summarizing
17:58:07 [wseltzer]
johnsimpson: This is a higher-level discussion of the options, not so specific as earlier sections.
17:58:18 [wseltzer]
... reflects where we are right now.
17:58:24 [WileyS]
17:58:28 [wseltzer]
.. Favors publishing, in a blue box.
17:58:29 [jchester2]
I support John's proposal
17:58:33 [aleecia]
ack WileyS
17:58:37 [amyc]
17:58:39 [justin_]
I'm fine leaving it as it is for now.
17:58:43 [wseltzer]
WileyS: Concern that we not lose the previous work.
17:59:06 [amyc]
17:59:08 [wseltzer]
... Fine not having them in the doc, so long as they are kept around.
17:59:12 [wseltzer]
... Titles would be helpful.
17:59:23 [bryan]
+1 to Shane's suggestion
17:59:33 [wseltzer]
aleecia: Issue 17 links to the text, mailing list discussion.
17:59:59 [wseltzer]
... Add to the note above that there is substantial additional text, so public and we don't lose it.
18:00:04 [wseltzer]
... Make sure it's issue 17.
18:00:23 [wseltzer]
... Also will add titles. Will put names on mailing list and discuss there.
18:00:40 [wseltzer]
... but won't hold up publication.
18:01:19 [npdoty]
no official standard
18:01:23 [wseltzer]
@@: In the TPE, when we list an issue, we give it title; here, we don't have the names.
18:01:30 [npdoty]
18:01:43 [aleecia]
shane would like: titles for issues,
18:02:02 [justin_]
We'll see what we can do . . .
18:02:04 [WileyS]
Thank you!
18:02:18 [aleecia]
1. add to note that there's more text
18:02:21 [tl]
When did we stop committing the editors' time for things they don't want to do?
18:02:22 [aleecia]
2. list out issues
18:02:31 [aleecia]
3. big blue box
18:02:35 [aleecia]
4. names for options
18:02:48 [aleecia]
18:02:48 [wseltzer]
aleecia: anything else on 4.1?
18:03:03 [WileyS]
18:03:22 [wseltzer]
... ^ Addresses concerns.
18:03:24 [Zakim]
18:03:29 [wseltzer]
... No objections.
18:03:39 [wseltzer]
... 4.2, Intermediary Compliance.
18:04:02 [wseltzer]
... lots of disclaimers; any comments?
18:04:16 [wseltzer]
... 4.3. Compliance by a third party
18:04:57 [wseltzer]
... fix typo; anything else?
18:05:00 [npdoty]
18:05:18 [wseltzer]
... remove the > from 4.3.1 point 4
18:05:54 [justin_]
These aren't options in 4.3
18:06:03 [tl]
18:06:09 [WileyS]
18:06:14 [npdoty]
18:06:21 [wseltzer]
npdoty: Titles, to be taken offline
18:06:23 [fielding]
schunter, note that intro text was moved to SOTD for both documentts
18:06:27 [aleecia]
ack WileyS
18:07:18 [wseltzer]
WileyS: The options are listed under 1st party, but they often address 3d party
18:07:30 [wseltzer]
aleecia: We could move them up a level
18:07:45 [wseltzer]
... under Compliance with an expressed tracking preference
18:07:52 [wseltzer]
... Any response from editors?
18:08:15 [npdoty]
I'm fine with just having the editors do something reasonable that includes adding titles somewhere within 4
18:08:17 [johnsimpson]
18:08:28 [wseltzer]
... Sec 4.1 Options refer to both 1st and 3d parties. Push it up to "Compliance" rather than "Compliance by first party" ?
18:08:50 [vincent]
vincent has joined #dnt
18:09:12 [tl]
fielding, Can you add this note to the header/URI section: "Note: We are currently working on a proposal which combines the Tk: response header and Tracking Status Resource. It would make the TSR compulsory and the Tk: header optional. However, it would be required to use the Tk: header to notify the user when something in the TSR has changed in real time."
18:09:15 [Zakim]
- +385221aass
18:09:57 [wseltzer]
WileyS: In Brussels, we didn't break up our text/discussions in that way between 1st and 3d parties
18:10:07 [johnsimpson]
18:10:07 [WileyS]
Okay - good to go then :-)
18:10:11 [wseltzer]
npdoty: Whatever the editors think is reasonable.
18:10:43 [wseltzer]
@@: retain the current structure for now.
18:10:49 [npdoty]
18:10:57 [wseltzer]
... separate question why we have 4.3.1
18:11:26 [wseltzer]
aleecia: this will change as we reach a decision; close enough for now.
18:12:00 [wseltzer]
... 4.2 this overlaps with DNT, so may change or come out of the doc.
18:12:07 [justin_]
18:12:38 [wseltzer]
justin: Would prefer to add some options on geolocation
18:13:03 [npdoty]
I think having just 4 and 5 would be the most relevant for that section
18:13:15 [wseltzer]
... will clean up tomorrow.
18:13:16 [justin_]
If we have agreement, that's fine.
18:13:27 [wseltzer]
aleecia: to continue on mailing list.
18:13:46 [jchester2]
we don't need options for location, but clearly delineating how DNT impacts location
18:13:47 [fielding]
tl, done
18:13:53 [wseltzer]
... 4.3.2, 4.3.3 issues?
18:13:56 [tl]
18:14:07 [wseltzer]
... 4.4, pending review
18:15:02 [wseltzer]
... 4.5, Cookie syncing
18:15:18 [wseltzer]
... proposed text under review
18:15:34 [npdoty]
formatting for 4.5.2, make a single Issue box for those numbered items and remove the Note box
18:15:40 [wseltzer]
... 4.6, pending review, Usage exceptions
18:15:46 [justin_]
18:16:09 [aleecia]
ack justin_
18:16:17 [wseltzer]
justin: outsourcing, should it be an exception here or under 1st party.
18:16:20 [tl]
18:16:21 [WileyS]
+1 for moving it up
18:16:26 [wseltzer]
... my preference to move to sec 3. Disagreement?
18:16:27 [aleecia]
18:16:33 [npdoty]
18:16:54 [tl]
ack tl
18:16:57 [wseltzer]
tl: prefer not to make that change right before publication
18:17:10 [vincent]
vincent has joined #dnt
18:17:22 [wseltzer]
... location has implications for the way the text is read
18:17:35 [fielding]
I would prefer to make the change now, for the same reason
18:17:42 [wseltzer]
aleecia: Suggest adding 2 notes; one where you'd move it, another here saying "this may move"
18:17:53 [WileyS]
Now is better - I don't believe there will be a semantics impact
18:17:55 [wseltzer]
... last-minute changes are disfavored.
18:18:18 [npdoty]
I expect we'll probably want this section to come after we discuss 3rd-parties, fwiw
18:18:20 [wseltzer]
... discuss at the end of the call, if there's time.
18:18:22 [tl]
In the next thirteen minutes?
18:18:22 [justin_]
The changes have no real effect, but for that reason, I don't care that strongly.
18:18:22 [Zakim]
18:18:35 [justin_]
18:18:41 [fielding]
TPE is done, afaik
18:19:03 [Zakim]
18:19:04 [wseltzer]
aleecia: a pile of not-yet baked exceptions and issues
18:19:26 [wseltzer]
... Sec 5. Exemptions, lots of open issues
18:19:42 [npdoty]
we're using "site-specific exception" as the term for this in the TPE doc
18:19:48 [wseltzer]
... 5.3 is baked
18:19:53 [fielding]
18:20:31 [wseltzer]
fielding: excpetions in TPE spec, exemptions here
18:20:42 [ksmith]
ksmith has left #DNT
18:21:26 [wseltzer]
aleecia: note, these terms are still being discussed
18:21:30 [justin_]
I will add thatn ote
18:21:32 [fielding]
okay if we change all to exceptions -- exemptions are never client-side
18:21:32 [justin_]
18:21:36 [wseltzer]
... we need new words
18:21:57 [wseltzer]
... Justin to add a note.
18:21:57 [johnsimpson]
I thin it is exceptions...
18:22:31 [wseltzer]
aleecia: 5.4, 2 different options on logged-in
18:23:04 [wseltzer]
... 5.6, enforcement and compliance. Again note that final wording may change
18:23:22 [wseltzer]
... reviewed one audit proposal, may hear something else in the future.
18:23:30 [wseltzer]
... no agreement yet.
18:23:45 [wseltzer]
... please add yourself to doodle to be acknowledged.
18:23:52 [fielding]
suggest that the last sentence in 5.6.2 should be a Note
18:24:05 [npdoty]
18:24:11 [wseltzer]
... if you've contributed and would like to be listed, please join the doodle.
18:24:12 [justin_]
18:24:38 [wseltzer]
... Does anyone object to publishing with these changes?
18:24:44 [wseltzer]
... None heard.
18:25:03 [wseltzer]
... Justin & Aleecia to make sure document is done Thurs;
18:25:05 [npdoty]
can we remove the header-field/DOM stuff from the Acknowledgements section?
18:25:11 [fielding]
I believe all requested changes have been made to the TPE spec during the call.
18:25:12 [fielding]
18:25:15 [wseltzer]
Justin: Schedule works
18:25:23 [WileyS]
Great work Editors!!!
18:25:25 [johnsimpson]
yes to COB friday
18:25:26 [wseltzer]
aleecia: Can people review changes by COB Friday?
18:25:27 [npdoty]
group to review changes by close of business Friday
18:25:29 [wseltzer]
... no objectionjs.
18:25:42 [wseltzer]
aleecia: expects to submit for publication on Tuesday.
18:25:44 [npdoty]
submit to be published on Tuesday, March 13th
18:25:45 [WileyS]
New iPad being presented at this very moment
18:25:49 [Zakim]
18:25:56 [tl]
WileyS: ?
18:26:04 [WileyS]
18:26:10 [tedleung]
do we have any more details on the f2f?
18:26:11 [Zakim]
18:26:11 [WileyS]
For those who care... :-)
18:26:12 [Zakim]
- +1.202.744.aarr
18:26:14 [npdoty]
18:26:15 [wseltzer]
18:26:15 [Zakim]
- +1.202.326.aamm
18:26:16 [Zakim]
18:26:17 [Zakim]
18:26:18 [Zakim]
- +1.415.520.aaee
18:26:18 [Zakim]
18:26:19 [Zakim]
- +1.813.366.aall
18:26:19 [Zakim]
18:26:21 [Zakim]
18:26:22 [npdoty]
publishing drafts!
18:26:22 [Zakim]
18:26:23 [johnsimpson]
good work all
18:26:24 [Zakim]
- +1.202.326.aatt
18:26:26 [Zakim]
18:26:28 [aleecia]
thank you!!!
18:26:28 [Zakim]
- +1.206.369.aann
18:26:30 [Zakim]
- +1.617.733.aakk
18:26:33 [Zakim]
18:26:35 [Zakim]
18:26:36 [Zakim]
18:26:36 [rvaneijk]
thank you
18:26:38 [Zakim]
18:26:39 [johnsimpson]
johnsimpson has left #dnt
18:26:40 [Zakim]
18:26:42 [Zakim]
18:26:44 [Zakim]
18:26:47 [Zakim]
18:26:47 [tedleung]
tedleung has left #dnt
18:26:59 [Zakim]
18:27:04 [wseltzer]
npdoty, will you take care of generating the minutes?
18:27:25 [npdoty]
thanks to Wendy for scribing!
18:27:40 [npdoty]
Zakim, list attendees
18:27:40 [Zakim]
As of this point the attendees have been +1.408.674.aaaa, +1.609.981.aabb, aleecia, tl, npdoty, +1.310.392.aacc, +1.813.366.aadd, alex, johnsimpson, +1.415.520.aaee, schunter,
18:27:44 [Zakim]
... +1.617.863.aaff, +1.301.270.aagg, wseltzer, +49.721.913.74.aahh, dsriedel, jchester2, +1.202.684.aaii, +1.714.852.aajj, +1.617.733.aakk, +1.813.366.aall, fielding, [Microsoft],
18:27:44 [Zakim]
... +1.202.326.aamm, +1.206.369.aann, +1.202.637.aaoo, justin_, +1.516.695.aapp, +1.408.349.aaqq, WileyS, Bryan_Sullivan, +1.202.744.aarr, +385221aass, Cyril_Concolato,
18:27:44 [Zakim]
... +1.202.326.aatt, +1.206.910.aauu, +1.215.286.aavv, +1.202.346.aaww, +1.206.619.aaxx, andyzei, +31.65.141.aayy, rvaneijk
18:29:25 [fielding]
aleecia, I made the change to the SOTD in both documents
18:29:32 [npdoty]
rrsagent, draft minutes
18:29:32 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate npdoty
18:29:46 [npdoty]
rrsagent, make minutes public
18:29:46 [RRSAgent]
I'm logging. I don't understand 'make minutes public', npdoty. Try /msg RRSAgent help
18:31:26 [npdoty]
Zakim, bye
18:31:26 [Zakim]
leaving. As of this point the attendees were +1.408.674.aaaa, +1.609.981.aabb, aleecia, tl, npdoty, +1.310.392.aacc, +1.813.366.aadd, alex, johnsimpson, +1.415.520.aaee, schunter,
18:31:26 [Zakim]
Zakim has left #dnt
18:31:29 [Zakim]
... +1.617.863.aaff, +1.301.270.aagg, wseltzer, +49.721.913.74.aahh, dsriedel, jchester2, +1.202.684.aaii, +1.714.852.aajj, +1.617.733.aakk, +1.813.366.aall, fielding, [Microsoft],
18:31:29 [Zakim]
... +1.202.326.aamm, +1.206.369.aann, +1.202.637.aaoo, justin_, +1.516.695.aapp, +1.408.349.aaqq, WileyS, Bryan_Sullivan, +1.202.744.aarr, +385221aass, Cyril_Concolato,
18:31:29 [Zakim]
... +1.202.326.aatt, +1.206.910.aauu, +1.215.286.aavv, +1.202.346.aaww, +1.206.619.aaxx, andyzei, +31.65.141.aayy, rvaneijk
18:31:35 [npdoty]
rrsagent, bye
18:31:35 [RRSAgent]
I see 1 open action item saved in :
18:31:35 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: fielding to remove last sentence in 4.4 + add a note instead [1]
18:31:35 [RRSAgent]
recorded in