16:50:10 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #html-techs-tf
16:50:10 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2012/03/05-html-techs-tf-irc
16:50:26 <Joshue108> zakim, this will be 9224
16:50:26 <Zakim> ok, Joshue108; I see WAI_HTML TT()11:30AM scheduled to start 20 minutes ago
16:50:56 <Joshue108> rrsagent, make log world
16:51:27 <Joshue108> meeting: HTML Techniques Task Force
16:51:41 <Joshue108> Chair: Joshue
16:52:26 <Joshue108> Agenda + Volunteers needed for allocation of techniques
16:53:20 <Joshue108> Regrets: James Nurthen, Michael Cooper, David Todd, Christophe Strobbe, Marc Johlic
16:59:47 <Zakim> WAI_HTML TT()11:30AM has now started
16:59:48 <Zakim> +??P3
16:59:58 <Joshue108> zakim, ??P3 is Joshue
16:59:58 <Zakim> +Joshue; got it
17:01:31 <Bailey> Bailey has joined #html-techs-tf
17:01:40 <Zakim> +Bruce_Bailey
17:01:42 <Zakim> -Bruce_Bailey
17:01:42 <Zakim> +Bruce_Bailey
17:02:28 <adam> adam has joined #html-techs-tf
17:02:49 <Zakim> +??P14
17:03:19 <Joshue108> zakim, ??P14 is Adam Solomon
17:03:19 <Zakim> I don't understand '??P14 is Adam Solomon', Joshue108
17:04:23 <Zakim> +David_MacDonald
17:04:59 <Zakim> + +1.650.253.aaaa
17:05:10 <Bailey> scribe:bailey
17:05:25 <Joshue108> scribeNick: Bruce
17:05:34 <David> David has joined #html-techs-tf
17:06:10 <Bailey> Main concern is people taking up techniques
17:06:29 <Bailey> LGR:  Rough drafts encouraged
17:06:37 <Bailey> Adam working on resize
17:06:46 <Bailey> David working on landmarks
17:08:08 <Loretta> Loretta has joined #html-techs-tf
17:08:27 <Bailey> Question if David work got into survey?
17:11:01 <Bailey> Discuss approach to write up, when to separate, when to group.
17:11:32 <David> http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/Using_ARIA_landmarks 
17:11:51 <Bailey> ACTION:  All -- take a look a davids technique
17:12:00 <David> https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/20120126misc/results 
17:12:04 <Bailey> Josh working on section elements
17:12:48 <Bailey> Bruce thinks to works on data table techniques this week.
17:13:04 <Loretta> Loretta: I *will* write up the track technqiues this week...
17:13:24 <Bailey> ITEM: Using ARIA Landmarks
17:16:49 <Bailey> Survey was closed 2012-01-26
17:17:08 <Bailey> Issue with commenting on closed survey.
17:17:50 <Bailey> Loretta making up survey for new comments.
17:19:22 <Bailey> Providing real-time feedback to David.  David editing in wiki.
17:19:35 <David> dmacdona
17:22:59 <Loretta> http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/20120305misc/
17:23:09 <Bailey> Discussion of techniques which really only benefit AT screen reader users.
17:24:38 <Bailey> Adam to add this talking point in survey response.
17:27:11 <Bailey> open issue Using ARIA landmarks
17:27:49 <Bailey> TOPIC:  Using ARIA landmarks
17:30:00 <Joshue108> zakim, mute me
17:30:00 <Zakim> Joshue should now be muted
17:32:41 <Joshue108> For anyone not on the call who wishes to comment on the ARIA landmarks technique please visit http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/20120305misc/
17:34:56 <Bailey> David raises question of HTML5 vs. HTML4/XHTML issues.  This is good example of that because DIV is a hack compared to elements available in HTML5.
17:36:02 <Loretta> ok, I added some comments to the survey.
17:36:08 <Joshue108> me too
17:36:17 <Joshue108> and Adam
17:36:25 <Joshue108> zakim, unmute me
17:36:25 <Zakim> Joshue should no longer be muted
17:38:57 <David> moving to text in irc...
17:41:21 <Bailey> Discussing survey responses.
17:42:36 <Bailey> Discussing how much user agent support required for a technique to be sufficient.
17:44:07 <Bailey> Techniques must be specific to Success Criteria.
17:44:51 <Loretta> http://www.w3.org/TR/2010/NOTE-WCAG20-TECHS-20101014/H42.html
17:44:52 <Bailey> It is possible that some ARIA techniques may not map directly to S.C.
17:45:17 <Loretta> http://www.w3.org/TR/2010/NOTE-WCAG20-TECHS-20101014/G141.html
17:46:10 <Loretta> http://www.w3.org/TR/2010/NOTE-WCAG20-TECHS-20101014/H69.html
17:46:36 <Bailey> Advisory techniques not followed nearly as much as sufficient techniques.
17:46:47 <Loretta> http://www.w3.org/TR/2010/NOTE-UNDERSTANDING-WCAG20-20101014/navigation-mechanisms-skip.html
17:47:59 <Bailey> Loretta provides examples using heading for organization and navigation.
17:48:54 <Bailey> Recall that H69 as sufficient is being criticized and may be reduced to advisory at some point.
17:49:47 <David> i have to step away to figure out the jackhammer... be back in 2 minutes
17:50:21 <Bailey> Issue:  Concern that some ARIA may end up being purely advisory.
17:50:42 <Bailey> Sufficiency on a per-SC basis.
17:51:18 <Bailey> Proposed:  Work from SC and look for ARIA techniques rather than from ARIA techniques to SC.
17:51:31 <David> back but on mute
17:51:57 <Loretta> http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/Techniques/HTML5
17:52:27 <Loretta> http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/Techniques/ARIA
17:52:40 <Bailey> Loretta points out that this is the way techniques are organized now.
17:53:04 <Joshue108> ACTION: Josh to check if ARIA roles etc are mapped to success criteria they may satisfy
17:53:30 <Bailey> Loretta points out that landmark roles not listed as sufficient for 1.3.1
17:53:51 <adam> sorry but i have to leave in two minutes
17:54:29 <David> q+ David to say that we can make sufficient techniques
17:55:11 <Bailey> May need to combine ARIA with scripting
17:55:21 <Loretta> H70: Using frame elements to group blocks of repeated material (HTML) AND H64: Using the title attribute of the frame and iframe elements (HTML) 
17:55:59 <Zakim> -??P14
17:56:37 <Bailey> Combining techniques (e.g. ARIA plus scripting) has been used for satisfying SC 
17:57:50 <Bailey> Consensus is importance with ARIA being non-advisory techniques
17:59:08 <Bailey> Discussion on proof-of-concept for navigating by keyboard.
18:00:20 <Joshue108> ACTION: Josh to find out if anyone is interested in creating accessibility test cases that go beyond screen reader use.
18:03:56 <Zakim> -David_MacDonald
18:04:03 <Zakim> -Joshue
18:04:03 <Zakim> - +1.650.253.aaaa
18:04:05 <Zakim> -Bruce_Bailey
18:04:07 <Zakim> WAI_HTML TT()11:30AM has ended
18:04:07 <Zakim> Attendees were Joshue, Bruce_Bailey, David_MacDonald, +1.650.253.aaaa
18:04:12 <Joshue108> rrsagent, make minutes
18:04:12 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/03/05-html-techs-tf-minutes.html Joshue108
18:04:56 <Joshue108> zakim, please part
18:04:56 <Zakim> Zakim has left #html-techs-tf