16:01:42 RRSAgent has joined #prov 16:01:42 logging to http://www.w3.org/2012/03/01-prov-irc 16:01:44 RRSAgent, make logs world 16:01:44 Zakim has joined #prov 16:01:46 Zakim, this will be 16:01:46 I don't understand 'this will be', trackbot 16:01:47 Meeting: Provenance Working Group Teleconference 16:01:47 Date: 01 March 2012 16:01:56 RRSAgent, draft minutes 16:01:56 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/03/01-prov-minutes.html MacTed 16:01:57 Luc has joined #prov 16:02:02 RRSAgent, make logs public 16:02:08 Zakim, who's here? 16:02:08 sorry, MacTed, I don't know what conference this is 16:02:10 On IRC I see Luc, Zakim, RRSAgent, kai, Mike_, Curt, tlebo, SamCoppens, gk1, GK, MacTed, trackbot, stain, sandro 16:02:11 Zakim, this is PROV 16:02:12 khalidbelhajjame has joined #prov 16:02:14 ok, MacTed; that matches SW_(PROV)11:00AM 16:02:18 Zakim, who's here? 16:02:18 On the phone I see tlebo, +1.443.708.aaaa, SamCoppens, Curt_Tilmes, ??P4, [OpenLink], ??P18 16:02:20 dgarijo has joined #prov 16:02:23 On IRC I see khalidbelhajjame, Luc, Zakim, RRSAgent, kai, Mike_, Curt, tlebo, SamCoppens, gk1, GK, MacTed, trackbot, stain, sandro 16:02:27 Zakim, [OpenLink] is temporarily me 16:02:29 Zakim, mute me 16:02:30 +MacTed; got it 16:02:37 MacTed should now be muted 16:02:39 -??P18 16:02:43 trackbot, start telcon 16:02:45 RRSAgent, make logs world 16:02:47 Zakim, this will be 16:02:47 I don't understand 'this will be', trackbot 16:02:48 Meeting: Provenance Working Group Teleconference 16:02:48 Date: 01 March 2012 16:02:55 +??P18 16:02:56 +Sandro 16:03:04 zakim, ??p18 is me 16:03:04 +GK; got it 16:03:14 Zakim, this will be PROV 16:03:14 ok, Luc, I see SW_(PROV)11:00AM already started 16:03:31 Agenda: http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/Meetings:Telecon2012.03.01 16:03:35 satya has joined #prov 16:03:41 +[IPcaller] 16:03:41 stephenc has joined #prov 16:03:50 +??P22 16:03:56 Chair: Paul Groth 16:04:04 have we got a scribe? 16:04:17 +??P25 16:04:26 zakim, ??P25 is me 16:04:26 +khalidbelhajjame; got it 16:04:29 Scribe: GK 16:04:39 pgroth has joined #prov 16:04:40 Topic: Admin 16:05:09 Minutes of the Feb 23 2012 Telecon: http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/meeting/2012-02-23 16:05:10 rrsagent, make logs public 16:05:16 Vote on minutes of last week telecon 16:05:21 +1 16:05:23 +1 16:05:24 +1 16:05:26 +1 16:05:28 +1 16:05:30 +1 16:05:31 OK, with revervartion per email 16:05:35 +1 16:05:37 +0, wasn't there 16:06:18 Paolo has joined #prov 16:06:33 +??P30 16:06:35 gk: did we explicitly agree to 3 parts, or a nod to the editors? 16:07:06 dcorsar has joined #prov 16:07:12 +1 16:07:12 Vote Minutes of F2F2: 16:07:16 +1 16:07:18 http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/meeting/2012-02-02 16:07:19 +1 16:07:21 +1 16:07:24 +1 16:07:25 +??P36 16:07:37 ACCEPTED: Minutes of the Feb 23 2012 Telecon 16:07:37 http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/meeting/2012-02-03 16:07:50 +[IPcaller.a] 16:07:58 smiles has joined #prov 16:08:04 jcheney has joined #prov 16:08:04 0 (not present) 16:08:08 +1 (I think) 16:08:08 +0 16:08:11 0 (not present) 16:08:15 zednik has joined #prov 16:08:17 +1 16:08:23 +1 (from a very quick look) 16:08:24 +0 (not present) 16:08:36 +1 16:08:46 ACCEPTED: Minutes of the second face to face meeting (F2F2) 16:08:55 http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/track/actions/open 16:09:03 Open actions 16:09:24 PROV-O: not yet due 16:09:54 Action-63? Khalid needs more time - con tinues 16:10:07 Actions 64-67 continue 16:10:18 Action 57 continues 16:10:18 Sorry, couldn't find user - 57 16:10:24 @Khalid: Jun said she was interested in helping you. Maybe she'll contact you. 16:10:43 All please note that next teleconferences 11 mar - 25 Mar are one hour earlier in Europe 16:10:55 sending .ics files as invitations, based on Boston-local-time, helps get correct times into calendars... 16:11:08 NOTE: time shift ONLY for Europe 16:11:13 Zakim, unmute me 16:11:13 MacTed should no longer be muted 16:11:20 agenda: Timetable for Release 16:11:24 @Daniel, yes Jun sent me a document, which I will use in the structure that I ll propose 16:11:30 Topic: Timetable for Release 16:11:39 @Khalid: great 16:11:55 https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0An15kLxkaMA3dFVCWm9aREZFemNOYjlGQjdPRkdFZXc#gid=0 16:12:07 Timetable for syncronized release of PROV-DM and PROV-O: 16:12:41 Paul: Timetable is very aggressive. 16:12:47 +Satya_Sahoo 16:12:53 .. Many documents will follow same timeline 16:13:26 .. beginning March - aim top have public WD5 at end of March for internal review 16:13:36 .. 2-week review period 16:14:19 .. feedback by ?? April, last call for all specifications at end of May 16:14:39 .. Candidate REC in August 16:14:49 .. Proposed REC in October 16:14:55 .. REC in Jan 2013 16:15:22 The next document needing to be looked at is PROV-O : 16:15:56 .. WD2 draft public mid-April, then same timeframe as DM 16:16:48 .. PROV0-AQ and Primer to follow same procedure as DM and Ont (End Mar internal, April(?) public) 16:17:08 +q 16:17:13 q- 16:17:16 q? 16:17:18 q+ 16:17:20 Paul: Need to be aggressive in ,making progress, cull topics that inhibit progress. 16:18:06 Simon: what happens after WD3 for Primer and PAQ? 16:18:22 q? 16:18:25 ack smiles 16:18:27 q? 16:18:31 Paul: those are notes,m can be less aggressive, but need syncronized set for next round. 16:18:37 q? 16:18:53 Topic: PROV-DM 16:19:03 Topic: Update on PROV-DM: 16:19:41 Luc: going through comments, have raised issues for each. This will lead to completion of WD4. 16:20:36 q/ 16:20:39 q? 16:20:45 .. plan for WD5 to tackle remaining issues in the charter, (collections, ..., ..., derivation). Also Jun's comments about structure of DM (why core + common relations). Edxpect all core technical issues to be addressed by WD5. 16:20:52 q? 16:21:28 http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/index.php?title=ProvDMWorkingDraft5&action=edit§ion=2 16:21:33 Paul: on agenda for 2-3 weeks, proposal for simplifying several relations in DM to make it more compatible with Ontology. 16:21:43 Proposal: remove id and and attribute from alternateOf, specializationOf, and hasNote 16:21:56 +1 16:22:00 +1 16:22:01 q? 16:22:07 +1 16:22:07 alternativeOf, specializationOf, hasNote to be binary relations. 16:22:15 q? 16:22:17 q+ to ask if these are still needed? 16:22:18 +1 16:22:22 +1 16:22:25 q+ 16:22:48 ack GK 16:22:48 GK, you wanted to ask if these are still needed? 16:23:24 ack jcheney 16:23:28 Paul: will deal with that separately. 16:23:54 +1 16:23:55 James: (can't hear clearly) 16:24:21 q? 16:24:26 James asked if binary relations contained typo. A> yes, there is typo. 16:24:27 Proposal: remove id and and attribute from alternateOf, specializationOf, and hasNote 16:24:30 +1 16:24:31 +1 16:24:32 +1 16:24:32 +1 16:24:32 +1 16:24:33 +1 16:24:33 +1 16:24:33 +1+1 16:24:33 +1 16:24:34 +1 16:24:36 +1 16:24:36 +1 16:24:37 +1 16:24:39 +1 16:24:41 +1 16:24:42 +1 16:24:50 accepted: remove id and and attribute from alternateOf, specializationOf, and hasNote 16:25:05 Topic: PROV-O 16:25:07 http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/Meetings:Telecon2012.03.01#PROV-O.27s_prov-wg_telecon_report_2012-03-01 16:25:11 Next topic: PROV-O : 16:25:12 @GK: sorry, lots of us are all in same room at Dagstuhl so trying to avoid feedback 16:26:12 (Missed something) Progress on design for catalogue of examples. Hoping for this second round to be final structure for examples. 16:26:43 .. issues with alignment between DM, Primer and PROV-O. Have overview wiki page (link?) 16:27:01 .. fielding issues from reviewers 16:27:41 .. planning organization for next rev of prov-o HTML doc, following style of SiOC/FOAF/OPMV... 16:27:46 q? 16:27:50 q+ 16:28:09 q- 16:28:17 Luc: were you going to ask DM people to do something similar. 16:28:40 q? 16:28:43 Tim: asking for annotations in document to facilitate comparison. Will send email with details. 16:28:46 q+ 16:28:51 ack GK 16:29:20 q? 16:29:24 http://aquarius.tw.rpi.edu/prov-wg/provrdf-owl-coverage 16:29:35 q? 16:29:41 Cool :) 16:30:02 q? 16:30:21 (GK question was about use of services: github for compare and RPI service for formatting; A: yes) 16:30:48 @tlebo:wasquotedFrom not mentioned? 16:31:00 @gk, the commands in the email thread can be ignored. the wg can focus on the results at http://aquarius.tw.rpi.edu/prov-wg/provrdf-owl-coverage 16:31:29 Khalid: need to think about minimal ... examples for every concept and property ... 16:32:00 ... details to help structure the ontology better. Also structuring the ontology into "models" - what does this mean? 16:32:13 @tlebo I was curious about thye tooling :) 16:32:21 Topic: Example Catalog 16:32:32 Next Topic: example catalogue 16:32:50 Tim put together a structure for this 16:32:53 http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/PROV_examples 16:34:40 Tim: link to description of proposed structure. Section 3 what we're trying to organize, section 4 patterns of organization. Use number to ensure uniqueness. Title optional, might change if that helps. Different directories for different formats. 16:34:53 http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/prov/file/tip/examples/eg-1/rdf/convert/asn/eg-1.asn 16:35:38 .. transcriptions section... above path indicates in and out formats, can be extended across multiple steps 16:36:04 .. query directory for query tests; compare for comparing output of queries 16:36:30 .. document at any level for adding notes 16:37:10 .. wiki namespace for references to wiki 16:37:33 .. links to web pages 16:37:41 q? 16:37:54 q? 16:38:02 @tlebo looked good to me first time, and getting better I think :) 16:38:15 @gk, thanks. More feedback welcome :-) 16:38:28 Consensus that we adopt this example catalog approach 16:38:31 +1 16:38:32 +1 16:38:33 +1 looks good 16:38:36 +1 16:38:39 +1 16:38:39 +1 16:38:40 Chair declares consensus to adopt this approach 16:39:00 Accepted: adopt example catalog approach from agenda 16:39:07 thanks, I'll press forward and make some real examples that people can follow. 16:39:11 Can we add a link to the wiki page created by Tim to the main wiki page 16:39:43 q? 16:39:44 Paul: call for volunteers to populate with examples 16:39:47 +1 16:39:54 +1 16:39:55 +1 16:40:04 +1 16:40:27 +1 16:40:35 Volunteers: Curt, Sam, Mike, Tim, Luc 16:40:49 q? 16:40:49 please bug me if you have any questions about the organization. 16:40:52 Paul: Others may contribute later! 16:41:00 (Slick chairing :) 16:41:05 q+ 16:41:10 ack tlebo 16:41:40 Topic: open discussion around accounts 16:41:44 Tim: asks to revisit F2F decision about accounts - believed we had removed account scoping, but still have bundles. 16:41:47 q? 16:42:45 q+ 16:43:16 GK: had same understanding, but wonderedf if "bundles" might be called "accounts". But not strong feeling about this. 16:44:01 Luc: mechanism for giving name to provenance assertions is outside scope of DM. But assume that mechanism exists. 16:44:06 That's was my understanding too. When we need to speak about the provenance of a collection of provenance assertions, then we simply use Entity 16:44:22 q? 16:44:22 .. would like to see accounts in model, but OIK to compromose. 16:44:26 ack Luc 16:44:45 q? 16:44:55 I recall something along the lines of what Luc said, too (assume mechanism for labeling bundles) 16:45:26 q+ 16:45:30 Paulk: fundamentally agreed to make accounts a lot simpler. 16:45:48 .. deferred discussion about where the mechanism might lie. 16:46:08 ack Luc 16:46:30 q+ to say I think the important thing may be to not prohibit private extensions for account-like functionality, but niot necessarily define now. 16:46:32 q+ to say that the can of worms was citing the asserter and having name scopes. 16:46:56 Luc: can we reproduce something similar to what ? did for ? 16:47:23 I think Luc was citing http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/ProvRDF#Account 16:47:30 .. what is the minimal notion of accout we can put in, without getting bogged down in details. 16:47:34 q? 16:47:36 ack GK 16:47:36 GK, you wanted to say I think the important thing may be to not prohibit private extensions for account-like functionality, but niot necessarily define now. 16:48:14 ack tlebo 16:48:14 tlebo, you wanted to say that the can of worms was citing the asserter and having name scopes. 16:48:39 GK: thinks minimal notion of accounts may useful way move forwards 16:49:20 Tim: think accounts are victiome of name scope issue, but minimal notion may avoid this problem, as long as timeline not impacted. 16:49:22 q+ 16:49:29 ack Luc 16:49:58 Paul: if we can do this without impacting timeline, that's good, but must not cause delay. 16:50:06 q? 16:50:10 Luc: we could produce a NOTE on accounts if time runs out 16:50:38 bye 16:50:40 Meeting closed. 16:50:42 -[IPcaller] 16:50:43 -tlebo 16:50:44 bye 16:50:47 -MacTed 16:50:49 -Satya_Sahoo 16:50:51 -??P22 16:50:53 -khalidbelhajjame 16:50:55 -Curt_Tilmes 16:50:57 -??P36 16:51:01 -[IPcaller.a] 16:51:03 -Sandro 16:51:07 - +1.443.708.aaaa 16:51:13 -SamCoppens 16:51:17 rrsagent, set log public 16:51:22 rrsagent, draft minutes 16:51:22 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/03/01-prov-minutes.html pgroth 16:51:23 -??P30 16:51:29 trackbot, end telcon 16:51:29 Zakim, list attendees 16:51:36 @paul: are you Ok from here - have meeting to retrun to now 16:51:37 RRSAgent, please draft minutes 16:51:37 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/03/01-prov-minutes.html trackbot 16:51:38 RRSAgent, bye 16:51:38 I see no action items 16:51:39 As of this point the attendees have been tlebo, +1.443.708.aaaa, SamCoppens, Curt_Tilmes, MacTed, Sandro, GK, [IPcaller], khalidbelhajjame, Satya_Sahoo