IRC log of css on 2012-02-29

Timestamps are in UTC.

16:34:27 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #css
16:34:27 [RRSAgent]
logging to http://www.w3.org/2012/02/29-css-irc
16:34:32 [glazou]
Zakim, this will be Style
16:34:32 [Zakim]
I do not see a conference matching that name scheduled within the next hour, glazou
16:34:39 [glazou]
rrsagent, make logs public
16:35:50 [glenn]
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16:42:20 [glazou]
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16:42:29 [glazou_]
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16:49:04 [dbaron]
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16:50:14 [TabAtkins_]
fantasai: The issues I didn't log were raised after the end of the LC period, iirc.
16:52:35 [tantek]
tantek has joined #css
16:52:55 [plinss]
zakim, this will be style
16:52:55 [Zakim]
I do not see a conference matching that name scheduled within the next hour, plinss
16:53:03 [tantek]
greetings
16:53:05 [tantek]
only on IRC this morning
16:53:07 [tantek]
Zakim, who is here
16:53:07 [Zakim]
tantek, you need to end that query with '?'
16:53:09 [TabAtkins_]
yo, tantek
16:53:14 [plinss]
hola
16:53:14 [tantek]
Zakim, who is here?
16:53:14 [Zakim]
sorry, tantek, I don't know what conference this is
16:53:15 [Zakim]
On IRC I see tantek, dbaron, glazou, glenn, RRSAgent, Zakim, dstorey, kojiishi, miketaylr, ksweeney, Ms2ger, nimbu, rworth, myakura, SimonSapin, AryehGregor, arronei, kennyluck,
16:53:15 [Zakim]
... TabAtkins_, danielfilho, ed, fantasai, florianr, trackbot, Echoes, hober, vhardy, sylvaing_away, alexmog, plinss, paul___irish, shans, gsnedders, CSSWG_LogBot, stearns, krijnh,
16:53:16 [Zakim]
... shepazu, Bert, macpherson, Hixie
16:53:26 [TabAtkins_]
Sigh. If Zakim understands the question, why does me make you rephrase it?
16:53:37 [tantek]
TabAtkins_ lazy bot programmer is lazy.
16:53:40 [rworth]
rworth has left #css
16:53:47 [TabAtkins_]
But it's actually *more* work to do that!
16:53:53 [jdaggett]
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16:53:58 [tantek]
and failed to obey 2nd law
16:55:11 [plinss]
zakim, this will be Style_CSS
16:55:11 [Zakim]
ok, plinss, I see Style_CSS FP()12:00PM already started
16:55:11 [smfr]
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16:55:28 [Zakim]
+??P42
16:55:29 [vhardy_]
vhardy_ has joined #css
16:55:37 [glazou]
Zakim, ??P42 is me
16:55:37 [Zakim]
+glazou; got it
16:55:44 [plinss]
zakim, who is here?
16:55:44 [Zakim]
On the phone I see nimbu, ??P40, glazou
16:55:45 [Zakim]
On IRC I see vhardy_, smfr, jdaggett, tantek, dbaron, glazou, glenn, RRSAgent, Zakim, dstorey, kojiishi, miketaylr, ksweeney, Ms2ger, nimbu, myakura, SimonSapin, AryehGregor,
16:55:45 [Zakim]
... arronei, kennyluck, TabAtkins_, danielfilho, ed, fantasai, florianr, trackbot, Echoes, hober, vhardy, sylvaing_away, alexmog, plinss, paul___irish, shans, gsnedders,
16:55:45 [Zakim]
... CSSWG_LogBot, stearns, krijnh, shepazu, Bert, macpherson, Hixie
16:55:49 [Zakim]
-??P40
16:55:51 [Zakim]
+plinss
16:56:15 [Zakim]
+??P44
16:56:16 [Zakim]
+??P43
16:56:18 [Zakim]
+??P40
16:56:35 [jdaggett]
zakim, ??p40 is me
16:56:35 [Zakim]
+jdaggett; got it
16:56:50 [Zakim]
+??P45
16:56:53 [bradk]
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16:57:12 [Zakim]
-??P43
16:57:15 [Zakim]
-??P44
16:57:47 [Zakim]
+??P46
16:57:53 [jdaggett]
ack
16:57:56 [glenn]
zakim, ??P46 is me
16:57:56 [Zakim]
+glenn; got it
16:57:59 [TabAtkins_]
lolwut?
16:58:02 [jdaggett]
zakim, ack
16:58:02 [Zakim]
I don't understand 'ack', jdaggett
16:58:03 [Zakim]
+[IPcaller]
16:58:09 [jdaggett]
q-
16:58:11 [glazou]
Zakim, you give us so much fun
16:58:11 [Zakim]
I don't understand 'you give us so much fun', glazou
16:58:19 [florianr]
Zakim, [IPcaller] has me
16:58:19 [Zakim]
+florianr; got it
16:58:38 [oyvind]
oyvind has joined #css
16:58:38 [Zakim]
+??P49
16:58:38 [antonp]
antonp has joined #css
16:58:54 [Zakim]
+smfr
16:59:05 [Zakim]
+sylvaing
16:59:23 [vhardy_]
zakim, who is here?
16:59:23 [Zakim]
On the phone I see nimbu, glazou, plinss, jdaggett, ??P45, glenn, [IPcaller], ??P49, smfr, sylvaing
16:59:25 [Zakim]
[IPcaller] has florianr
16:59:25 [Zakim]
On IRC I see antonp, oyvind, bradk, vhardy_, smfr, jdaggett, tantek, dbaron, glazou, glenn, RRSAgent, Zakim, dstorey, kojiishi, miketaylr, ksweeney, Ms2ger, nimbu, myakura,
16:59:27 [Zakim]
... SimonSapin, AryehGregor, arronei, kennyluck, TabAtkins_, danielfilho, ed, fantasai, florianr, trackbot, Echoes, hober, vhardy, sylvaing, alexmog, plinss, paul___irish, shans,
16:59:32 [Zakim]
... gsnedders, CSSWG_LogBot, stearns, krijnh, shepazu, Bert, macpherson, Hixie
16:59:34 [Zakim]
+ +1.650.253.aaaa
16:59:38 [vhardy_]
Zakim, ??P49 is me
16:59:42 [Zakim]
+stearns
16:59:46 [TabAtkins_]
zakim, aaaa is [Google]
16:59:46 [Zakim]
+vhardy_; got it
16:59:52 [TabAtkins_]
zakim, [Google] has me
17:00:02 [Zakim]
+[Google]; got it
17:00:08 [kimberly]
kimberly has joined #css
17:00:08 [Zakim]
+Oliver_Goldman
17:00:09 [ChrisL]
ChrisL has joined #css
17:00:11 [krit]
krit has joined #css
17:00:12 [Zakim]
+TabAtkins_; got it
17:00:16 [Zakim]
+hober
17:00:29 [krit]
Zakim, who's here?
17:00:47 [Zakim]
On the phone I see nimbu, glazou, plinss, jdaggett, ??P45, glenn, [IPcaller], vhardy_, smfr, sylvaing, [Google], stearns, Oliver_Goldman, hober
17:00:53 [Zakim]
[IPcaller] has florianr
17:00:56 [Zakim]
[Google] has TabAtkins_
17:01:11 [krit]
Zakim, vhardy_ is me
17:01:22 [Zakim]
On IRC I see krit, ChrisL, kimberly, antonp, oyvind, bradk, vhardy_, smfr, jdaggett, tantek, dbaron, glazou, glenn, RRSAgent, Zakim, dstorey, kojiishi, miketaylr, ksweeney, Ms2ger,
17:01:27 [Zakim]
... nimbu, myakura, SimonSapin, AryehGregor, arronei, kennyluck, TabAtkins_, danielfilho, ed, fantasai, florianr, trackbot, Echoes, hober, vhardy, sylvaing, alexmog, plinss,
17:01:28 [fantasai]
TabAtkins: That doesn't mean you don't file them.
17:01:30 [Zakim]
... paul___irish, shans, gsnedders, CSSWG_LogBot, stearns, krijnh, shepazu, Bert, macpherson, Hixie
17:01:32 [danielweck]
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17:01:42 [Zakim]
+??P62
17:01:44 [fantasai]
TabAtkins: You addressed them, didn't you? If you're going to ignore them because they're after the deadline, fine.
17:01:46 [Zakim]
+krit; got it
17:01:54 [Zakim]
+Bert
17:01:55 [ksweeney]
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17:01:58 [fantasai]
TabAtkins: But if not, they need to be filed and processed.
17:01:58 [danielweck]
Zakim, ??62 is me
17:01:59 [smfr]
a 386
17:02:01 [Zakim]
+antonp
17:02:13 [fantasai]
TabAtkins: The only time we've ever rejected a comment due to being after the deadline is CSS2.1, fwiw.
17:02:14 [TabAtkins_]
fantasai: My understanding was that the DoC was for LC issues.
17:02:14 [Zakim]
+[Microsoft]
17:02:16 [arronei]
zakim, microsoft has me
17:02:21 [Zakim]
sorry, danielweck, I do not recognize a party named '??62'
17:02:28 [Zakim]
+arronei; got it
17:02:31 [fantasai]
TabAtkins: And that was because if we didn't, we'd never finish.
17:02:34 [TabAtkins_]
Outside of the LC comment period, they're just regular comments, and are dealt with in the normal way.
17:02:48 [fantasai]
TabAtkins: You're addressing them between LC and CR, they get filed.
17:03:08 [plinss]
zakim, ??p62 is danielweck
17:03:08 [Zakim]
+danielweck; got it
17:03:22 [Cathy]
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17:03:24 [SimonSapin1]
SimonSapin1 has joined #css
17:03:25 [TabAtkins_]
I can do that, sure. But don't complain about me not filing them when the instructions about what to file were apparently unclear. ^_^
17:03:37 [Zakim]
+kimberly
17:04:31 [glenn]
scribe: glenn
17:04:34 [glazou]
ScribeNick: glenn
17:04:43 [glenn]
chair: glazou
17:04:58 [Zakim]
+SteveZ
17:05:02 [glenn]
???: like to talk about MQ
17:05:09 [nimbu]
??? is florianr
17:05:18 [Zakim]
+ChrisL
17:05:18 [Zakim]
+ +8521616aabb
17:05:20 [glenn]
s/???/florianr/
17:05:24 [Zakim]
+ +1.408.421.aacc
17:05:26 [Zakim]
+ +1.415.766.aadd
17:05:39 [glenn]
alex: can we publish ??
17:05:44 [dbaron]
Zakim, aadd is dbaron
17:05:44 [Zakim]
+dbaron; got it
17:05:46 [Zakim]
+ +47.23.69.aaee
17:05:47 [stearns]
s/??/flexbox/
17:05:47 [TabAtkins_]
s/??/WD of Flexbox/
17:05:56 [alexmog_]
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17:06:00 [Zakim]
+??P78
17:06:00 [glenn]
???: gradients on agenda?
17:06:03 [tantek]
TabAtkins, between end of LC period and when you publish the CR it's a bit of a gray area as to what's "required". I think it's up to editor judgment, in which case consider if addressing the comment will improve the spec, and in particular avoid a CR-LC-CR cycle.
17:06:08 [nimbu]
s/???/sylvaing
17:06:16 [glenn]
glazou: only normative reference on agenda
17:06:18 [danielweck]
Zakim, ??P78 is me
17:06:19 [Zakim]
+danielweck; got it
17:06:20 [danielweck]
(again)
17:06:24 [glenn]
... yes if possible
17:06:27 [dstorey]
one of those new people is me. Going to try to work out which
17:06:37 [TabAtkins_]
tantek: "Addressing" and "filing in the DoC" are very different things. I do the former. I didn't realize I had to do the latter.
17:06:46 [glenn]
alex: discussed LC on flexbox
17:06:52 [glenn]
???: would like a WD
17:07:00 [florianr]
s/???/florianr/
17:07:01 [Rossen]
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17:07:03 [howcome]
howcome has joined #css
17:07:07 [Zakim]
+??P9
17:07:08 [fantasai]
zakim, aacc is me
17:07:08 [Zakim]
+fantasai; got it
17:07:09 [glenn]
alex: will publish by tuesday
17:07:11 [dstorey]
zakim, +1.408.421.aacc is me
17:07:11 [Zakim]
sorry, dstorey, I do not recognize a party named '+1.408.421.aacc'
17:07:12 [kojiishi]
zakim, ??p9 is me
17:07:12 [Zakim]
+kojiishi; got it
17:07:13 [fantasai]
zakim, mute me
17:07:13 [Zakim]
fantasai should now be muted
17:07:24 [glenn]
chrisl: WD or what?
17:07:28 [fantasai]
zakim, fantasai is dstorey
17:07:28 [Zakim]
+dstorey; got it
17:07:30 [TabAtkins_]
RESOLVED: Publich Flexbox as WD.
17:07:39 [glenn]
RESOLVE: publish flexbox as WD
17:07:50 [ChrisL]
action: ChrisL to publish flexbox wd
17:07:50 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-453 - Publish flexbox wd [on Chris Lilley - due 2012-03-07].
17:07:51 [tantek]
TabAtkins, agreed. If it's a cross-WG comment then I tend to be more liberal toward including in the DoC as it tends to improve inter-WG relations and reduce static/friction in future interactions.
17:07:55 [smfr]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2012Feb/1083.html
17:08:02 [glenn]
glazou: post msg from david with list of issues
17:08:22 [Rossen]
zakim, [Microsoft] has me
17:08:22 [Zakim]
+Rossen; got it
17:08:26 [tantek]
TabAtkins, do you have a URL/webpage example of the new flexbox syntax/functionality/algorithm that shows it "working" (even prefixed) in 2+ implementations? (just curious what state of spec vs implementation is.
17:08:27 [alexmog_]
zakim, [microsoft] has me
17:08:27 [Zakim]
+alexmog_; got it
17:08:28 [glenn]
???: order as in email
17:08:30 [SteveZ]
SteveZ has joined #css
17:08:42 [glenn]
... animation of images and gradients
17:08:47 [glazou]
s/???/dbaron
17:08:53 [glenn]
... rules in spec about animation of gradients
17:09:07 [glenn]
... work in css4 images about that, should defer to that and remove from spec
17:09:11 [tantek]
thanks smfr for the link
17:09:20 [glenn]
???: what is meant by defer?
17:09:24 [glazou]
s/???/florianr
17:09:25 [ChrisL]
I agree with all the ones in the postpone category, having read through them
17:09:48 [Zakim]
+ +1.650.766.aaff
17:09:55 [glenn]
dbaron: impls free to do what the want
17:10:08 [sylvaing]
ChrisL, +1
17:10:08 [bradk]
zakim, aaff is me
17:10:08 [Zakim]
+bradk; got it
17:10:34 [smfr]
q+
17:10:34 [glenn]
listening
17:10:38 [glenn]
go ahead
17:10:43 [dbaron]
Tab: people will depend on whatever the implementations do, no matter what the spec says
17:11:02 [glazou]
Zakim, ack smfr
17:11:02 [Zakim]
I see no one on the speaker queue
17:11:05 [dbaron]
s/dbaron:/florianr:/
17:11:07 [tantek]
dbaron's clustering of issues postpone/easy/medium/hard is a good approach for helping advance these specs quickly.
17:11:08 [glenn]
???: webkit has cross fade
17:11:10 [TabAtkins_]
s/???/smfr/
17:11:33 [glenn]
... will do transitions using cross fade, agrees should be undefined how accomplished
17:12:03 [glenn]
dbaron: thinks that wk is impl newer spec
17:12:17 [leaverou]
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17:12:26 [glenn]
... should not have normative statement if will soon override
17:12:58 [glenn]
... what is wrong with saying undefined?
17:13:16 [glenn]
worried if you say can't animate, or if you say can animate but not what happens
17:13:20 [glenn]
s/.../chrisl/
17:13:47 [glenn]
fantasai: should say undefined
17:14:00 [glenn]
... then mention how it will be defined in future spec
17:14:36 [glenn]
chrisl: if spec says need not, will have no test
17:14:48 [dbaron]
s/need not/you should not try to animate this/
17:15:06 [glenn]
dbaron: css1/2 have said ignore props not defined in spec
17:15:13 [glenn]
... yet css3 is defining new props
17:15:35 [Zakim]
-glazou
17:15:54 [glenn]
glazou: has to drop/rejoin due to sip problem, peter pls chair in mean time
17:15:54 [Zakim]
+??P42
17:15:56 [dbaron]
dbaron: I think that's fine
17:16:05 [glazou]
Zakim, ??p42 is me
17:16:05 [Zakim]
+glazou; got it
17:16:11 [Zakim]
-danielweck
17:16:13 [fantasai]
s/should say undefined/should specify that whether and how it's animated is undefined/
17:16:26 [glazou]
(sorry, no change, very difficult to hear you all, sound is cut)
17:16:26 [JohnJansen]
JohnJansen has joined #CSS
17:16:31 [glazou]
Bert: probably
17:16:40 [smfr]
i'm fine with florianr's wording
17:16:42 [glenn]
???: such and such is not expected to animate, but different ? will defines how this works
17:17:08 [glenn]
dbaron: are we talking just about images/gradients or everything not animatable?
17:17:27 [glenn]
... thinks we're talking about everything, concerned about putting in big loop hole
17:17:39 [Zakim]
+[Microsoft.a]
17:17:39 [florianr]
This level of css does not expect XXX to animate. Different modules or later levels may define how to animate them.
17:17:54 [glenn]
chrisl: (1) animatable and known, (2) not animatable and known, (3) others not sure
17:18:21 [glenn]
???: is it clear on (2) vs (3)
17:18:45 [glenn]
... rather be specific when possible
17:19:10 [glenn]
dbaron: ok if we have statement about limited set of props
17:19:29 [glenn]
... should i take an action to write that statement?
17:20:10 [glenn]
dbaron: most of the rest aren't properties
17:20:22 [glenn]
glazou: would like a decision
17:20:33 [smfr]
i agree
17:20:34 [glenn]
chrisl: agrees with entire list of things to postpone
17:20:48 [Zakim]
-[Microsoft.a]
17:20:49 [glenn]
... to which sylviang agreed
17:20:59 [smfr]
https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=14609
17:21:08 [Zakim]
-danielweck.a
17:21:11 [glenn]
dbaron: transitions about value types you can't interpolate
17:21:42 [glenn]
... things would animate that people aren't expecting to animate
17:21:56 [glenn]
???: can define special timing model for discrete things
17:22:00 [dbaron]
s/???/Tab/
17:22:45 [glenn]
chrisl: in SVG discrete changes interpolate
17:23:05 [glenn]
dbaron: are people not worried about this?
17:23:14 [glenn]
... will put constraints on what we can do
17:24:05 [glenn]
tab: if transitions immediately after non-zero, then should work
17:24:07 [smfr]
transition: all 2s 2s;
17:24:23 [glenn]
tab: find with leaving or fixing, simple to fix
17:24:44 [glenn]
???: thinks not simple to fix
17:24:50 [glenn]
tab: shouldn't have transition all
17:24:54 [smfr]
s/???/smfr
17:25:19 [BobBie]
BobBie has joined #css
17:25:27 [glenn]
???: suggests postponing
17:25:35 [smfr]
s/???/florianr
17:25:45 [glenn]
dbaron: should work within constraints just now, is ok with postponing
17:25:52 [smfr]
i'm ok with postponing
17:26:15 [Zakim]
-krit
17:26:17 [glenn]
RESOLVED: postponing ??? items
17:26:36 [smfr]
https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=15844
17:26:36 [glenn]
<dbaron pls s/// ??? for me>
17:26:37 [krit]
zakim, who's here
17:26:37 [Zakim]
krit, you need to end that query with '?'
17:26:45 [krit]
zakim, who's here?
17:26:45 [Zakim]
On the phone I see nimbu, plinss, jdaggett, ??P45, glenn, [IPcaller], smfr, sylvaing, [Google], stearns, Oliver_Goldman, hober, Bert, antonp, [Microsoft], kimberly, SteveZ, ChrisL,
17:26:49 [Zakim]
... +8521616aabb, dstorey (muted), dbaron, +47.23.69.aaee, kojiishi, bradk, glazou
17:26:49 [Zakim]
[IPcaller] has florianr
17:26:49 [Zakim]
[Microsoft] has alexmog_
17:26:50 [Zakim]
[Google] has TabAtkins_
17:26:52 [Zakim]
On IRC I see BobBie, JohnJansen, leaverou, SteveZ, howcome, Rossen, alexmog_, SimonSapin1, Cathy, danielweck, krit, ChrisL, kimberly, antonp, oyvind, bradk, vhardy_, smfr,
17:26:55 [Zakim]
... jdaggett, tantek, dbaron, glazou, glenn, RRSAgent, Zakim, dstorey, kojiishi, miketaylr, Ms2ger, nimbu, myakura, AryehGregor, arronei, kennyluck, TabAtkins_, danielfilho, ed,
17:26:58 [Zakim]
... fantasai, florianr, trackbot, Echoes, hober, vhardy, sylvaing, alexmog, plinss, paul___irish, shans, gsnedders, CSSWG_LogBot, stearns, krijnh, shepazu, Bert, macpherson, Hixie
17:26:58 [dbaron]
s/???/the items listed as postpone in http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2012Feb/1083.html/
17:27:04 [glenn]
tnx
17:27:14 [glenn]
tab: can't having impls doing different things...
17:27:56 [glenn]
???: don't want webkit behavior
17:28:02 [dbaron]
smfr: WebKit treats 'auto' as '0'
17:28:06 [Zakim]
- +47.23.69.aaee
17:28:09 [florianr]
s/???/dbaron/
17:28:31 [glenn]
dbaron: how to match lists of different lengths
17:28:38 [glenn]
... in transition * properties
17:28:47 [glenn]
... background is the length that matters
17:28:53 [ChrisL]
agree with the truncated/repeated proposal
17:28:58 [glenn]
... use beginning of list ignore the rest
17:29:00 [smfr]
agreed
17:29:10 [glenn]
dbaron: proposes ???
17:29:31 [dbaron]
RESOLVED: resolve bug 14604 as proposed
17:30:02 [glenn]
dbaron: next, reverse animation using opposite timing function, people ask for feature
17:30:20 [glenn]
... postpone adding such feature, but add example showing how it can be used now
17:30:35 [glenn]
... a little confusing, but not too hard
17:30:40 [glenn]
glazou: good compromise
17:30:42 [dbaron]
RESOLVED: resolve bug 14611 as proposed
17:31:00 [glenn]
dbaron: spec mentions grid and zoom props
17:31:06 [smfr]
agreed
17:31:13 [glenn]
... grid isn't any spec, zoom is; propose removing refs
17:31:15 [ChrisL]
agreed
17:31:15 [glenn]
tab: agree
17:31:18 [Zakim]
+??P1
17:31:22 [dbaron]
RESOLVED: resolve bug 14618 and 14626 as proposed
17:31:44 [smfr]
agreed
17:31:46 [glenn]
dbaron: vertical align is animatable (according to spec), but what does animating keywords mean?
17:32:21 [Zakim]
-??P1
17:32:24 [glenn]
???: should we say "no keywords" or just enumerate the subset of what can animate?
17:32:33 [TabAtkins_]
s/???/florianr/
17:32:39 [dbaron]
RESOLVED: resolve bug 14988 as proposed
17:32:50 [glenn]
dbaron: last of easy items
17:32:51 [smfr]
https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=15838
17:32:51 [Bert]
(Animating from 'top' to 'bottom' makes sense, but doesn't seem needed.)
17:33:05 [glenn]
... no transition when both transition delay and ??? are zero seconds
17:33:07 [ChrisL]
agree on the zero transition
17:33:09 [Zakim]
+??P1
17:33:11 [glenn]
... nothing says it
17:33:26 [glenn]
tab: doesn't like because it is discontinuous behavior
17:33:46 [glenn]
dbaron: the default is delay/duraion not transition property
17:33:53 [glenn]
s/duraion/duration/
17:34:04 [glenn]
tab: ok, need to make not a transition
17:34:27 [glenn]
florianr: does the spec say this?
17:34:34 [dbaron]
smfr: implication of transition not occurring is that no events fire?
17:34:35 [fantasai]
tab: oh, we default to transition-property: all; and transition-duration / ?? to zero
17:34:35 [Bert]
". By default the value is ā€˜0sā€™, meaning that the transition is immediate"
17:34:37 [dbaron]
smfr: does the spec say that?
17:34:41 [TabAtkins_]
Specifically, the current "no transitions" default is implemention with a property of "all" and a delay/duration of "0".
17:34:47 [glenn]
s/florianr/smfr/
17:34:47 [Bert]
" (i.e. there will be no animation)."
17:35:01 [glenn]
fantasai: why do we have default of zero?
17:35:11 [fantasai]
s/zero/all\/zero/
17:35:17 [glenn]
bert: specs no animation in that case
17:35:26 [glenn]
tab: events are important part
17:36:11 [glenn]
<speaker pls summarize long statement in irc>
17:36:32 [smfr]
i approve
17:36:39 [TabAtkins_]
smfr: [explained the original reasoning between the current defaults vs defaulting to a property of 'none' and some default duration]
17:36:50 [dbaron]
RESOLVED: resolve bug 15838 as proposed
17:36:51 [Bert]
smfr: [there are usability reasons for defaults of 'all' and '0s']
17:37:07 [glenn]
glazou: moving to Z-axis intersection issue for transforms
17:37:17 [glenn]
... is dirk here?
17:37:19 [smfr]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2012Feb/1202.html
17:37:25 [dbaron]
Topic: Z-Axis intersection for transforms
17:37:54 [glenn]
???: opera does not have impl of 3d transforms
17:38:10 [glenn]
... in favor of saying do intersection in spec
17:38:13 [dbaron]
s/???/florianr/
17:38:15 [glenn]
... not in favor of saying should
17:38:39 [glenn]
dbaron: talked to robert
17:38:53 [glenn]
tab: would like to do correctly, impl is tricky
17:39:01 [Zakim]
+ +47.23.69.aagg
17:39:26 [dbaron]
s/robert/Robert O'Callahan, and he agreed the correct behavior (plane splitting) is obvious but we don't do it correctly now, but we should/
17:39:29 [smfr]
RESOLVED: transform spec should make intersection behavior a MUST
17:39:31 [jet]
jet has joined #CSS
17:39:32 [howcome]
zakim, aagg is howcome
17:39:32 [Zakim]
+howcome; got it
17:40:35 [glenn]
???: possible problem with mirroring specs
17:40:45 [TabAtkins_]
s/???/jdaggett
17:40:54 [glenn]
... multiview?
17:41:04 [fantasai]
scribenick: fantasai
17:41:07 [glenn]
... proposal to mirror to csswg, thinks it is bad idea
17:41:16 [fantasai]
jdaggett: proposal was to host specs on csswg.org
17:41:21 [glenn]
<jdaggett pls speak up>
17:41:32 [fantasai]
jdaggett: means all ..., and all editor's drafts have to point [...]
17:41:42 [dbaron]
s/[...]/to csswg.org/
17:41:42 [fantasai]
jdaggett: I don't see that using Apache is necessary. We can use <meta> to do redirection.
17:42:02 [fantasai]
jdaggett: Not ideal, but better than having csswg.org be a point of failure
17:42:02 [glenn]
jdaggett: not necessary to use .htaccess facilities
17:42:12 [tantek]
I agree, I'd rather delay the source control transition if it means we can avoid one or more temporary places for specs.
17:42:23 [fantasai]
Scribenick: glenn
17:42:36 [glenn]
plinss: timing to be finalized today
17:42:43 [glenn]
... infrastructure in place
17:42:53 [glenn]
... wishes better docs, but working on them today
17:43:02 [glenn]
... no addl burden on editors
17:43:28 [glenn]
jdaggett: questions using URLs to refer to csswg.org host
17:43:39 [tantek]
I have not had time to retry the hg instructions again to see where I get stuck next btw.
17:43:41 [glenn]
plinss: suggests reverse proxy on dev.w3.org
17:43:50 [glenn]
bert: pretty sure its possible
17:44:13 [dbaron]
(Why do a reverse proxy on a w3c server if we could just do a checkout on a w3c server?)
17:44:15 [glenn]
plinss: this is just a stop gap, i.e., using csswg.org
17:44:23 [tantek]
exactly, what dbaron said
17:44:32 [glenn]
jdaggett: doesn't see need for interim step
17:44:36 [tantek]
can we delay transition and avoid stopgaps?
17:44:41 [tantek]
what's the rush?
17:44:51 [glenn]
plinss: if we use reverse proxy, nobody will know
17:45:21 [tantek]
I agree with the concerns that jdaggett has raised.
17:45:22 [glenn]
... will start with proxy on dev.w3.org to csswg.org
17:45:36 [glenn]
jdaggett: doesn't like having csswg.org as a point of failure
17:45:50 [glenn]
plinss: only for a few weeks/months
17:46:04 [glenn]
jdaggett: doesn't see this step as necessary
17:46:14 [dbaron]
If there's a chance we can make this happen in a matter of days, I think we should try to get that to happen.
17:46:45 [dbaron]
I think it's preferable to have the editors drafts have w3.org URLs
17:46:46 [glenn]
plinss: what's the big deal?
17:46:54 [glenn]
jdaggett: sounds like extra work for nothing
17:47:20 [glenn]
... had breakage previously
17:47:38 [glenn]
<going in loops here... glazou?>
17:47:54 [fantasai]
plinss: They'll be served from dev.w3.org URLs
17:48:02 [glenn]
glazou: pls take to email or irc after call
17:48:15 [fantasai]
plinss: so why do you care
17:48:17 [Zakim]
-??P1
17:48:24 [glenn]
TOPIC: css3 images
17:48:37 [glenn]
fantasai: DoC but won't get through them today
17:48:51 [dbaron]
http://dev.w3.org/csswg/css3-images/issues-lc-2012 is the thing to discuss?
17:48:51 [glenn]
... all should review DoC and discuss issues during next telecon
17:48:55 [dbaron]
er, to review?
17:49:01 [TabAtkins_]
http://dev.w3.org/csswg/css3-images/issues-lc-2012
17:49:02 [glenn]
... suggests talking now about taking V&U to LC
17:49:17 [glenn]
glazou: reds need review
17:49:31 [glenn]
fantasai: all are pretty tricky
17:49:40 [glenn]
tab: need other people looking at them
17:49:51 [Zakim]
+??P0
17:50:14 [glenn]
glazou: action on all to review DoC and comment
17:50:21 [sylvaing]
title of css3-images DoC is 'CSS Backgrounds and Borders Level 3'
17:50:31 [glenn]
... what else to say now about this doc?
17:50:40 [glenn]
tab: just discuss DoC
17:50:50 [glenn]
florianr: like to go back to MQ
17:50:59 [glenn]
... current TS is not latest version
17:51:12 [glenn]
fantasai: already has action item to do this
17:51:22 [glenn]
florianr: will write results for opera
17:51:26 [fantasai]
https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/w3c-css-wg/2012JanMar/0309.html
17:51:33 [glenn]
... also some editorial changes, should republish
17:51:41 [glenn]
... question about when
17:51:55 [florianr]
http://my.opera.com/desktopteam/blog/2012/02/28/precision-engine
17:52:03 [glenn]
fantasai: suggests passing (opera) build first
17:52:27 [glenn]
florianr: go to LC then hopefully CR
17:52:36 [glenn]
s/florianr/fantasai/
17:52:40 [fantasai]
s/CR/PR/
17:52:51 [fantasai]
fantasai: or are they only editorial?
17:52:58 [fantasai]
florianr: Borderline
17:53:09 [fantasai]
florianr: Not changing what they say, just what people understand them to say
17:53:42 [glenn]
florianr: a request on ML for example
17:53:53 [glenn]
fantasai: no opinion
17:54:19 [BobBie]
hi
17:54:27 [glazou]
glazou has joined #css
17:54:35 [glenn]
florianr: suggest not adding this specific example because it refers to feature not referenced
17:55:14 [glenn]
... request for example using rem unit
17:55:41 [glenn]
sylvaing: think is not needed
17:55:53 [glazou]
s/sylvaing/glazou
17:55:56 [glenn]
dbaron: but may help clarify spec text, units never based on results of declarations
17:56:15 [glenn]
... unambiguous that rem behaves same way
17:56:32 [dbaron]
Add to "Relative units in media queries are based on the initial value."
17:56:34 [glenn]
... add to sentence "relative units ..."
17:56:37 [Zakim]
-Oliver_Goldman
17:56:52 [glenn]
florianr: sounds good, will edit and republish
17:57:08 [glenn]
<is there a resolution? pls someone type into irc>
17:57:29 [glazou]
RESOLUTION: Add to "Relative units in media queries are based on the initial value."
17:57:31 [glenn]
dbaron: previous version in draft is obsolete
17:57:32 [Zakim]
-dstorey
17:57:47 [glenn]
chrisl: if all editorial, don
17:57:52 [dbaron]
s/previous version in draft is obsolete/previous version link in draft points to previous previous version/
17:57:53 [glenn]
... don't need another LC
17:58:00 [glenn]
... or is proposal to go to PR?
17:58:05 [glenn]
dbaron: possible in one week
17:58:15 [glenn]
... depends on impl reports
17:58:24 [glenn]
florianr: can have IRs tomorrow
17:58:28 [glenn]
fantasai: agreed
17:58:47 [glenn]
dbaron: mozilla passes all the tests in the repo
17:59:41 [krit]
krit has joined #css
17:59:42 [glenn]
florianr: should we list previous editors as current editors or previous?
17:59:52 [glenn]
... currently listed as previous
17:59:56 [jdaggett]
previous editors seems fine
18:00:03 [glenn]
glazou: no opinion
18:00:09 [glenn]
tab: list as previous
18:00:24 [glenn]
stevez: long tradition
18:00:27 [dbaron]
though sometimes the "previous editors" is editors for a previous level of the spec, which is sort of different...
18:00:58 [danielweck]
Zakim, ??P0 is me
18:00:58 [Zakim]
+danielweck; got it
18:01:08 [Zakim]
-jdaggett
18:01:13 [Bert]
RESOLVED: move editors of MQ who are no longer active to "Former editor"
18:01:37 [dbaron]
fantasai: Everybody ok with removing the comma between attribute name and type in the attr() function?
18:01:39 [glenn]
fantasai: is everbody ok with removing comma between ? and ?
18:01:48 [glenn]
glazou: not fair to ask this now at end of call
18:01:58 [Bert]
(I don't like it without the comma, but can live with it.)
18:02:05 [dbaron]
peterl: We discussed it at f2f, and howcome was only dissenter.
18:02:14 [dbaron]
peterl: And howcome just said he's ok with it.
18:02:32 [glenn]
<is there a resolution?>
18:02:41 [Zakim]
-smfr
18:02:41 [glenn]
<fantasai, pls type resolution>
18:02:43 [kimberly]
kimberly has left #css
18:02:43 [dbaron]
RESOLVED: publish last call of css3-values
18:02:43 [Zakim]
-kimberly
18:02:48 [Zakim]
-howcome
18:02:49 [glenn]
glazou: adjourned
18:02:51 [Zakim]
-nimbu
18:02:52 [Zakim]
-sylvaing
18:02:54 [Zakim]
-ChrisL
18:02:54 [fantasai]
RESOLVED: drop comma between attribute name and type in attr()
18:02:56 [Zakim]
-glazou
18:02:57 [Zakim]
-[Google]
18:02:58 [Zakim]
-hober
18:02:58 [Zakim]
-dbaron
18:02:59 [Zakim]
-[IPcaller]
18:02:59 [Zakim]
-stearns
18:03:01 [Zakim]
-SteveZ
18:03:01 [glenn]
rrsagent, publish minutes
18:03:01 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/02/29-css-minutes.html glenn
18:03:03 [Zakim]
-bradk
18:03:05 [Zakim]
-antonp
18:03:07 [Zakim]
-Bert
18:03:08 [TabAtkins_]
RESOLVED: publish V&U as LCWD.
18:03:09 [Zakim]
-kojiishi
18:03:11 [Zakim]
-??P45
18:03:13 [Zakim]
-plinss
18:03:15 [Zakim]
- +8521616aabb
18:03:26 [glenn]
trackbot, end meeting
18:03:26 [trackbot]
Zakim, list attendees
18:03:26 [Zakim]
As of this point the attendees have been nimbu, glazou, plinss, jdaggett, glenn, florianr, smfr, sylvaing, +1.650.253.aaaa, stearns, Oliver_Goldman, TabAtkins_, hober, krit, Bert,
18:03:29 [Zakim]
... antonp, arronei, danielweck, kimberly, SteveZ, ChrisL, +8521616aabb, +1.408.421.aacc, +1.415.766.aadd, dbaron, +47.23.69.aaee, kojiishi, dstorey, Rossen, alexmog_,
18:03:30 [Zakim]
... +1.650.766.aaff, bradk, [Microsoft], +47.23.69.aagg, howcome
18:03:33 [fantasai]
Bert, is CSS Speech CR in the pipeline yet?
18:03:34 [trackbot]
RRSAgent, please draft minutes
18:03:34 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/02/29-css-minutes.html trackbot
18:03:35 [trackbot]
RRSAgent, bye
18:03:35 [RRSAgent]
I see 1 open action item saved in http://www.w3.org/2012/02/29-css-actions.rdf :
18:03:35 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: ChrisL to publish flexbox wd [1]
18:03:35 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2012/02/29-css-irc#T17-07-50