16:34:27 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #css
16:34:27 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2012/02/29-css-irc
16:34:32 <glazou> Zakim, this will be Style
16:34:32 <Zakim> I do not see a conference matching that name scheduled within the next hour, glazou
16:34:39 <glazou> rrsagent, make logs public
16:35:50 <glenn> glenn has joined #css
16:42:20 <glazou> glazou has left #css
16:42:29 <glazou_> glazou_ has joined #css
16:49:04 <dbaron> dbaron has joined #css
16:50:14 <TabAtkins_> fantasai: The issues I didn't log were raised after the end of the LC period, iirc.
16:52:35 <tantek> tantek has joined #css
16:52:55 <plinss> zakim, this will be style
16:52:55 <Zakim> I do not see a conference matching that name scheduled within the next hour, plinss
16:53:03 <tantek> greetings
16:53:05 <tantek> only on IRC this morning
16:53:07 <tantek> Zakim, who is here
16:53:07 <Zakim> tantek, you need to end that query with '?'
16:53:09 <TabAtkins_> yo, tantek
16:53:14 <plinss> hola
16:53:14 <tantek> Zakim, who is here?
16:53:14 <Zakim> sorry, tantek, I don't know what conference this is
16:53:15 <Zakim> On IRC I see tantek, dbaron, glazou, glenn, RRSAgent, Zakim, dstorey, kojiishi, miketaylr, ksweeney, Ms2ger, nimbu, rworth, myakura, SimonSapin, AryehGregor, arronei, kennyluck,
16:53:15 <Zakim> ... TabAtkins_, danielfilho, ed, fantasai, florianr, trackbot, Echoes, hober, vhardy, sylvaing_away, alexmog, plinss, paul___irish, shans, gsnedders, CSSWG_LogBot, stearns, krijnh,
16:53:16 <Zakim> ... shepazu, Bert, macpherson, Hixie
16:53:26 <TabAtkins_> Sigh.  If Zakim understands the question, why does me make you rephrase it?
16:53:37 <tantek> TabAtkins_ lazy bot programmer is lazy.
16:53:40 <rworth> rworth has left #css
16:53:47 <TabAtkins_> But it's actually *more* work to do that!
16:53:53 <jdaggett> jdaggett has joined #css
16:53:58 <tantek> and failed to obey 2nd law
16:55:11 <plinss> zakim, this will be Style_CSS
16:55:11 <Zakim> ok, plinss, I see Style_CSS FP()12:00PM already started
16:55:11 <smfr> smfr has joined #css
16:55:28 <Zakim> +??P42
16:55:29 <vhardy_> vhardy_ has joined #css
16:55:37 <glazou> Zakim, ??P42 is me
16:55:37 <Zakim> +glazou; got it
16:55:44 <plinss> zakim, who is here?
16:55:44 <Zakim> On the phone I see nimbu, ??P40, glazou
16:55:45 <Zakim> On IRC I see vhardy_, smfr, jdaggett, tantek, dbaron, glazou, glenn, RRSAgent, Zakim, dstorey, kojiishi, miketaylr, ksweeney, Ms2ger, nimbu, myakura, SimonSapin, AryehGregor,
16:55:45 <Zakim> ... arronei, kennyluck, TabAtkins_, danielfilho, ed, fantasai, florianr, trackbot, Echoes, hober, vhardy, sylvaing_away, alexmog, plinss, paul___irish, shans, gsnedders,
16:55:45 <Zakim> ... CSSWG_LogBot, stearns, krijnh, shepazu, Bert, macpherson, Hixie
16:55:49 <Zakim> -??P40
16:55:51 <Zakim> +plinss
16:56:15 <Zakim> +??P44
16:56:16 <Zakim> +??P43
16:56:18 <Zakim> +??P40
16:56:35 <jdaggett> zakim, ??p40 is me
16:56:35 <Zakim> +jdaggett; got it
16:56:50 <Zakim> +??P45
16:56:53 <bradk> bradk has joined #css
16:57:12 <Zakim> -??P43
16:57:15 <Zakim> -??P44
16:57:47 <Zakim> +??P46
16:57:53 <jdaggett> ack
16:57:56 <glenn> zakim, ??P46 is me
16:57:56 <Zakim> +glenn; got it
16:57:59 <TabAtkins_> lolwut?
16:58:02 <jdaggett> zakim, ack
16:58:02 <Zakim> I don't understand 'ack', jdaggett
16:58:03 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
16:58:09 <jdaggett> q-
16:58:11 <glazou> Zakim, you give us so much fun
16:58:11 <Zakim> I don't understand 'you give us so much fun', glazou
16:58:19 <florianr> Zakim, [IPcaller] has me
16:58:19 <Zakim> +florianr; got it
16:58:38 <oyvind> oyvind has joined #css
16:58:38 <Zakim> +??P49
16:58:38 <antonp> antonp has joined #css
16:58:54 <Zakim> +smfr
16:59:05 <Zakim> +sylvaing
16:59:23 <vhardy_> zakim, who is here?
16:59:23 <Zakim> On the phone I see nimbu, glazou, plinss, jdaggett, ??P45, glenn, [IPcaller], ??P49, smfr, sylvaing
16:59:25 <Zakim> [IPcaller] has florianr
16:59:25 <Zakim> On IRC I see antonp, oyvind, bradk, vhardy_, smfr, jdaggett, tantek, dbaron, glazou, glenn, RRSAgent, Zakim, dstorey, kojiishi, miketaylr, ksweeney, Ms2ger, nimbu, myakura,
16:59:27 <Zakim> ... SimonSapin, AryehGregor, arronei, kennyluck, TabAtkins_, danielfilho, ed, fantasai, florianr, trackbot, Echoes, hober, vhardy, sylvaing, alexmog, plinss, paul___irish, shans,
16:59:32 <Zakim> ... gsnedders, CSSWG_LogBot, stearns, krijnh, shepazu, Bert, macpherson, Hixie
16:59:34 <Zakim> + +1.650.253.aaaa
16:59:38 <vhardy_> Zakim, ??P49 is me
16:59:42 <Zakim> +stearns
16:59:46 <TabAtkins_> zakim, aaaa is [Google]
16:59:46 <Zakim> +vhardy_; got it
16:59:52 <TabAtkins_> zakim, [Google] has me
17:00:02 <Zakim> +[Google]; got it
17:00:08 <kimberly> kimberly has joined #css
17:00:08 <Zakim> +Oliver_Goldman
17:00:09 <ChrisL> ChrisL has joined #css
17:00:11 <krit> krit has joined #css
17:00:12 <Zakim> +TabAtkins_; got it
17:00:16 <Zakim> +hober
17:00:29 <krit> Zakim, who's here?
17:00:47 <Zakim> On the phone I see nimbu, glazou, plinss, jdaggett, ??P45, glenn, [IPcaller], vhardy_, smfr, sylvaing, [Google], stearns, Oliver_Goldman, hober
17:00:53 <Zakim> [IPcaller] has florianr
17:00:56 <Zakim> [Google] has TabAtkins_
17:01:11 <krit> Zakim, vhardy_ is me
17:01:22 <Zakim> On IRC I see krit, ChrisL, kimberly, antonp, oyvind, bradk, vhardy_, smfr, jdaggett, tantek, dbaron, glazou, glenn, RRSAgent, Zakim, dstorey, kojiishi, miketaylr, ksweeney, Ms2ger,
17:01:27 <Zakim> ... nimbu, myakura, SimonSapin, AryehGregor, arronei, kennyluck, TabAtkins_, danielfilho, ed, fantasai, florianr, trackbot, Echoes, hober, vhardy, sylvaing, alexmog, plinss,
17:01:28 <fantasai> TabAtkins: That doesn't mean you don't file them.
17:01:30 <Zakim> ... paul___irish, shans, gsnedders, CSSWG_LogBot, stearns, krijnh, shepazu, Bert, macpherson, Hixie
17:01:32 <danielweck> danielweck has joined #css
17:01:42 <Zakim> +??P62
17:01:44 <fantasai> TabAtkins: You addressed them, didn't you? If you're going to ignore them because they're after the deadline, fine. 
17:01:46 <Zakim> +krit; got it
17:01:54 <Zakim> +Bert
17:01:55 <ksweeney> ksweeney has left #css
17:01:58 <fantasai> TabAtkins: But if not, they need to be filed and processed.
17:01:58 <danielweck> Zakim, ??62 is me
17:01:59 <smfr> a 386
17:02:01 <Zakim> +antonp
17:02:13 <fantasai> TabAtkins: The only time we've ever rejected a comment due to being after the deadline is CSS2.1, fwiw.
17:02:14 <TabAtkins_> fantasai: My understanding was that the DoC was for LC issues.
17:02:14 <Zakim> +[Microsoft]
17:02:16 <arronei> zakim, microsoft has me
17:02:21 <Zakim> sorry, danielweck, I do not recognize a party named '??62'
17:02:28 <Zakim> +arronei; got it
17:02:31 <fantasai> TabAtkins: And that was because if we didn't, we'd never finish.
17:02:34 <TabAtkins_> Outside of the LC comment period, they're just regular comments, and are dealt with in the normal way.
17:02:48 <fantasai> TabAtkins: You're addressing them between LC and CR, they get filed.
17:03:08 <plinss> zakim, ??p62 is danielweck
17:03:08 <Zakim> +danielweck; got it
17:03:22 <Cathy> Cathy has joined #css
17:03:24 <SimonSapin1> SimonSapin1 has joined #css
17:03:25 <TabAtkins_> I can do that, sure.  But don't complain about me not filing them when the instructions about what to file were apparently unclear. ^_^
17:03:37 <Zakim> +kimberly
17:04:31 <glenn> scribe: glenn
17:04:34 <glazou> ScribeNick: glenn 
17:04:43 <glenn> chair: glazou
17:04:58 <Zakim> +SteveZ
17:05:02 <glenn> ???: like to talk about MQ
17:05:09 <nimbu> ??? is florianr
17:05:18 <Zakim> +ChrisL
17:05:18 <Zakim> + +8521616aabb
17:05:20 <glenn> s/???/florianr/
17:05:24 <Zakim> + +1.408.421.aacc
17:05:26 <Zakim> + +1.415.766.aadd
17:05:39 <glenn> alex: can we publish ??
17:05:44 <dbaron> Zakim, aadd is dbaron
17:05:44 <Zakim> +dbaron; got it
17:05:46 <Zakim> + +47.23.69.aaee
17:05:47 <stearns> s/??/flexbox/
17:05:47 <TabAtkins_> s/??/WD of Flexbox/
17:05:56 <alexmog_> alexmog_ has joined #css
17:06:00 <Zakim> +??P78
17:06:00 <glenn> ???: gradients on agenda?
17:06:03 <tantek> TabAtkins, between end of LC period and when you publish the CR it's a bit of a gray area as to what's "required". I think it's up to editor judgment, in which case consider if addressing the comment will improve the spec, and in particular avoid a CR-LC-CR cycle.
17:06:08 <nimbu> s/???/sylvaing
17:06:16 <glenn> glazou: only normative reference on agenda
17:06:18 <danielweck> Zakim, ??P78 is me
17:06:19 <Zakim> +danielweck; got it
17:06:20 <danielweck> (again)
17:06:24 <glenn> ... yes if possible
17:06:27 <dstorey> one of those new people is me. Going to try to work out which
17:06:37 <TabAtkins_> tantek: "Addressing" and "filing in the DoC" are very different things.  I do the former. I didn't realize I had to do the latter.
17:06:46 <glenn> alex: discussed LC on flexbox
17:06:52 <glenn> ???: would like a WD
17:07:00 <florianr> s/???/florianr/
17:07:01 <Rossen> Rossen has joined #css
17:07:03 <howcome> howcome has joined #css
17:07:07 <Zakim> +??P9
17:07:08 <fantasai> zakim, aacc is me
17:07:08 <Zakim> +fantasai; got it
17:07:09 <glenn> alex: will publish by tuesday
17:07:11 <dstorey> zakim, +1.408.421.aacc is me
17:07:11 <Zakim> sorry, dstorey, I do not recognize a party named '+1.408.421.aacc'
17:07:12 <kojiishi> zakim, ??p9 is me
17:07:12 <Zakim> +kojiishi; got it
17:07:13 <fantasai> zakim, mute me
17:07:13 <Zakim> fantasai should now be muted
17:07:24 <glenn> chrisl: WD or what?
17:07:28 <fantasai> zakim, fantasai is dstorey
17:07:28 <Zakim> +dstorey; got it
17:07:30 <TabAtkins_> RESOLVED: Publich Flexbox as WD.
17:07:39 <glenn> RESOLVE: publish flexbox as WD
17:07:50 <ChrisL> action: ChrisL to publish flexbox wd
17:07:50 <trackbot> Created ACTION-453 - Publish flexbox wd [on Chris Lilley - due 2012-03-07].
17:07:51 <tantek> TabAtkins, agreed. If it's a cross-WG comment then I tend to be more liberal toward including in the DoC as it tends to improve inter-WG relations and reduce static/friction in future interactions.
17:07:55 <smfr> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2012Feb/1083.html
17:08:02 <glenn> glazou: post msg from david with list of issues
17:08:22 <Rossen> zakim, [Microsoft] has me
17:08:22 <Zakim> +Rossen; got it
17:08:26 <tantek> TabAtkins, do you have a URL/webpage example of the new flexbox syntax/functionality/algorithm that shows it "working" (even prefixed) in 2+ implementations? (just curious what state of spec vs implementation is.
17:08:27 <alexmog_> zakim, [microsoft] has me
17:08:27 <Zakim> +alexmog_; got it
17:08:28 <glenn> ???: order as in email
17:08:30 <SteveZ> SteveZ has joined #css
17:08:42 <glenn> ... animation of images and gradients
17:08:47 <glazou> s/???/dbaron
17:08:53 <glenn> ... rules in spec about animation of gradients
17:09:07 <glenn> ... work in css4 images about that, should defer to that and remove from spec
17:09:11 <tantek> thanks smfr for the link
17:09:20 <glenn> ???: what is meant by defer?
17:09:24 <glazou> s/???/florianr
17:09:25 <ChrisL> I agree with all the ones in the postpone category, having read through them
17:09:48 <Zakim> + +1.650.766.aaff
17:09:55 <glenn> dbaron: impls free to do what the want
17:10:08 <sylvaing> ChrisL, +1
17:10:08 <bradk> zakim, aaff is me
17:10:08 <Zakim> +bradk; got it
17:10:34 <smfr> q+
17:10:34 <glenn> listening
17:10:38 <glenn> go ahead
17:10:43 <dbaron> Tab: people will depend on whatever the implementations do, no matter what the spec says
17:11:02 <glazou> Zakim, ack smfr 
17:11:02 <Zakim> I see no one on the speaker queue
17:11:05 <dbaron> s/dbaron:/florianr:/
17:11:07 <tantek> dbaron's clustering of issues postpone/easy/medium/hard is a good approach for helping advance these specs quickly.
17:11:08 <glenn> ???: webkit has cross fade
17:11:10 <TabAtkins_> s/???/smfr/
17:11:33 <glenn> ... will do transitions using cross fade, agrees should be undefined how accomplished
17:12:03 <glenn> dbaron: thinks that wk is impl newer spec
17:12:17 <leaverou> leaverou has joined #css
17:12:26 <glenn> ... should not have normative statement if will soon override
17:12:58 <glenn> ... what is wrong with saying undefined?
17:13:16 <glenn> worried if you say can't animate, or if you say can animate but not what happens
17:13:20 <glenn> s/.../chrisl/
17:13:47 <glenn> fantasai: should say undefined
17:14:00 <glenn> ... then mention how it will be defined in future spec
17:14:36 <glenn> chrisl: if spec says need not, will have no test
17:14:48 <dbaron> s/need not/you should not try to animate this/
17:15:06 <glenn> dbaron: css1/2 have said ignore props not defined in spec
17:15:13 <glenn> ... yet css3 is defining new props
17:15:35 <Zakim> -glazou
17:15:54 <glenn> glazou: has to drop/rejoin due to sip problem, peter pls chair in mean time
17:15:54 <Zakim> +??P42
17:15:56 <dbaron> dbaron: I think that's fine
17:16:05 <glazou> Zakim, ??p42 is me
17:16:05 <Zakim> +glazou; got it
17:16:11 <Zakim> -danielweck
17:16:13 <fantasai> s/should say undefined/should specify that whether and how it's animated is undefined/
17:16:26 <glazou> (sorry, no change, very difficult to hear you all, sound is cut)
17:16:26 <JohnJansen> JohnJansen has joined #CSS
17:16:31 <glazou> Bert: probably
17:16:40 <smfr> i'm fine with florianr's wording
17:16:42 <glenn> ???: such and such is not expected to animate, but different ? will defines how this works
17:17:08 <glenn> dbaron: are we talking just about images/gradients or everything not animatable?
17:17:27 <glenn> ... thinks we're talking about everything, concerned about putting in big loop hole
17:17:39 <Zakim> +[Microsoft.a]
17:17:39 <florianr> This level of css does not expect XXX to animate. Different modules or later levels may define how to animate them.
17:17:54 <glenn> chrisl: (1) animatable and known, (2) not animatable and known, (3)  others not sure
17:18:21 <glenn> ???: is it clear on (2) vs (3)
17:18:45 <glenn> ... rather be specific when possible
17:19:10 <glenn> dbaron: ok if we have statement about limited set of props
17:19:29 <glenn> ... should i take an action to write that statement?
17:20:10 <glenn> dbaron: most of the rest aren't properties
17:20:22 <glenn> glazou: would like a decision
17:20:33 <smfr> i agree
17:20:34 <glenn> chrisl: agrees with entire list of things to postpone
17:20:48 <Zakim> -[Microsoft.a]
17:20:49 <glenn> ... to which sylviang agreed
17:20:59 <smfr> https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=14609
17:21:08 <Zakim> -danielweck.a
17:21:11 <glenn> dbaron: transitions about value types you can't interpolate
17:21:42 <glenn> ... things would animate that people aren't expecting to animate
17:21:56 <glenn> ???: can define special timing model for discrete things
17:22:00 <dbaron> s/???/Tab/
17:22:45 <glenn> chrisl: in SVG discrete changes interpolate
17:23:05 <glenn> dbaron: are people not worried about this?
17:23:14 <glenn> ... will put constraints on what we can do
17:24:05 <glenn> tab: if transitions immediately after non-zero, then should work
17:24:07 <smfr> transition: all 2s 2s;
17:24:23 <glenn> tab: find with leaving or fixing, simple to fix
17:24:44 <glenn> ???: thinks not simple to fix
17:24:50 <glenn> tab: shouldn't have transition all
17:24:54 <smfr> s/???/smfr
17:25:19 <BobBie> BobBie has joined #css
17:25:27 <glenn> ???: suggests postponing
17:25:35 <smfr> s/???/florianr
17:25:45 <glenn> dbaron: should work within constraints just now, is ok with postponing
17:25:52 <smfr> i'm ok with postponing
17:26:15 <Zakim> -krit
17:26:17 <glenn> RESOLVED: postponing ??? items
17:26:36 <smfr> https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=15844
17:26:36 <glenn> <dbaron pls s/// ??? for me>
17:26:37 <krit> zakim, who's here
17:26:37 <Zakim> krit, you need to end that query with '?'
17:26:45 <krit> zakim, who's here?
17:26:45 <Zakim> On the phone I see nimbu, plinss, jdaggett, ??P45, glenn, [IPcaller], smfr, sylvaing, [Google], stearns, Oliver_Goldman, hober, Bert, antonp, [Microsoft], kimberly, SteveZ, ChrisL,
17:26:49 <Zakim> ... +8521616aabb, dstorey (muted), dbaron, +47.23.69.aaee, kojiishi, bradk, glazou
17:26:49 <Zakim> [IPcaller] has florianr
17:26:49 <Zakim> [Microsoft] has alexmog_
17:26:50 <Zakim> [Google] has TabAtkins_
17:26:52 <Zakim> On IRC I see BobBie, JohnJansen, leaverou, SteveZ, howcome, Rossen, alexmog_, SimonSapin1, Cathy, danielweck, krit, ChrisL, kimberly, antonp, oyvind, bradk, vhardy_, smfr,
17:26:55 <Zakim> ... jdaggett, tantek, dbaron, glazou, glenn, RRSAgent, Zakim, dstorey, kojiishi, miketaylr, Ms2ger, nimbu, myakura, AryehGregor, arronei, kennyluck, TabAtkins_, danielfilho, ed,
17:26:58 <Zakim> ... fantasai, florianr, trackbot, Echoes, hober, vhardy, sylvaing, alexmog, plinss, paul___irish, shans, gsnedders, CSSWG_LogBot, stearns, krijnh, shepazu, Bert, macpherson, Hixie
17:26:58 <dbaron> s/???/the items listed as postpone in http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2012Feb/1083.html/
17:27:04 <glenn> tnx
17:27:14 <glenn> tab: can't  having impls doing different things...
17:27:56 <glenn> ???: don't want webkit behavior
17:28:02 <dbaron> smfr: WebKit treats 'auto' as '0'
17:28:06 <Zakim> - +47.23.69.aaee
17:28:09 <florianr> s/???/dbaron/
17:28:31 <glenn> dbaron: how to match lists of different lengths
17:28:38 <glenn> ... in transition * properties
17:28:47 <glenn> ... background is the length that matters
17:28:53 <ChrisL> agree with the truncated/repeated proposal
17:28:58 <glenn> ... use beginning of list ignore the rest
17:29:00 <smfr> agreed
17:29:10 <glenn> dbaron: proposes ???
17:29:31 <dbaron> RESOLVED: resolve bug 14604 as proposed
17:30:02 <glenn> dbaron: next, reverse animation using opposite timing function, people ask for feature
17:30:20 <glenn> ... postpone adding such feature, but add example showing how it can be used now
17:30:35 <glenn> ... a little confusing, but not too hard
17:30:40 <glenn> glazou: good compromise
17:30:42 <dbaron> RESOLVED: resolve bug 14611 as proposed
17:31:00 <glenn> dbaron: spec mentions grid and zoom props
17:31:06 <smfr> agreed
17:31:13 <glenn> ... grid isn't any spec, zoom is; propose removing refs
17:31:15 <ChrisL> agreed
17:31:15 <glenn> tab: agree
17:31:18 <Zakim> +??P1
17:31:22 <dbaron> RESOLVED: resolve bug 14618 and 14626 as proposed
17:31:44 <smfr> agreed
17:31:46 <glenn> dbaron: vertical align is animatable (according to spec), but what does animating keywords mean?
17:32:21 <Zakim> -??P1
17:32:24 <glenn> ???: should we say "no keywords" or just enumerate the subset of what can animate?
17:32:33 <TabAtkins_> s/???/florianr/
17:32:39 <dbaron> RESOLVED: resolve bug 14988 as proposed
17:32:50 <glenn> dbaron: last of easy items
17:32:51 <smfr> https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=15838
17:32:51 <Bert> (Animating from 'top' to 'bottom' makes sense, but doesn't seem needed.)
17:33:05 <glenn> ... no transition when both transition delay and ??? are zero seconds
17:33:07 <ChrisL> agree on the zero transition
17:33:09 <Zakim> +??P1
17:33:11 <glenn> ... nothing says it
17:33:26 <glenn> tab: doesn't like because it is discontinuous behavior
17:33:46 <glenn> dbaron: the default is delay/duraion not transition property
17:33:53 <glenn> s/duraion/duration/
17:34:04 <glenn> tab: ok, need to make not a transition
17:34:27 <glenn> florianr: does the spec say this?
17:34:34 <dbaron> smfr: implication of transition not occurring is that no events fire?
17:34:35 <fantasai> tab: oh, we default to transition-property: all; and transition-duration / ?? to zero
17:34:35 <Bert> ". By default the value is ‘0s’, meaning that the transition is immediate"
17:34:37 <dbaron> smfr: does the spec say that?
17:34:41 <TabAtkins_> Specifically, the current "no transitions" default is implemention with a property of "all" and a delay/duration of "0".
17:34:47 <glenn> s/florianr/smfr/
17:34:47 <Bert> " (i.e. there will be no animation)."
17:35:01 <glenn> fantasai: why do we have default of zero?
17:35:11 <fantasai> s/zero/all\/zero/
17:35:17 <glenn> bert: specs no animation in that case
17:35:26 <glenn> tab: events are important part
17:36:11 <glenn> <speaker pls summarize long statement in irc>
17:36:32 <smfr> i approve
17:36:39 <TabAtkins_> smfr: [explained the original reasoning between the current defaults vs defaulting to a property of 'none' and some default duration]
17:36:50 <dbaron> RESOLVED: resolve bug 15838 as proposed
17:36:51 <Bert> smfr: [there are usability reasons for defaults of 'all' and '0s']
17:37:07 <glenn> glazou: moving to Z-axis intersection issue for transforms
17:37:17 <glenn> ... is dirk here?
17:37:19 <smfr> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2012Feb/1202.html
17:37:25 <dbaron> Topic: Z-Axis intersection for transforms
17:37:54 <glenn> ???: opera does not have impl of 3d transforms
17:38:10 <glenn> ... in favor of saying do intersection in spec
17:38:13 <dbaron> s/???/florianr/
17:38:15 <glenn> ... not in favor of saying should
17:38:39 <glenn> dbaron: talked to robert
17:38:53 <glenn> tab: would like to do correctly, impl is tricky
17:39:01 <Zakim> + +47.23.69.aagg
17:39:26 <dbaron> s/robert/Robert O'Callahan, and he agreed the correct behavior (plane splitting) is obvious but we don't do it correctly now, but we should/
17:39:29 <smfr> RESOLVED: transform spec should make intersection behavior a MUST
17:39:31 <jet> jet has joined #CSS
17:39:32 <howcome> zakim, aagg is howcome
17:39:32 <Zakim> +howcome; got it
17:40:35 <glenn> ???: possible problem with mirroring specs
17:40:45 <TabAtkins_> s/???/jdaggett
17:40:54 <glenn> ... multiview?
17:41:04 <fantasai> scribenick: fantasai
17:41:07 <glenn> ... proposal to mirror to csswg, thinks it is bad idea
17:41:16 <fantasai> jdaggett: proposal was to host specs on csswg.org
17:41:21 <glenn> <jdaggett pls speak up>
17:41:32 <fantasai> jdaggett: means all ..., and all editor's drafts have to point [...]
17:41:42 <dbaron> s/[...]/to csswg.org/
17:41:42 <fantasai> jdaggett: I don't see that using Apache is necessary. We can use <meta> to do redirection.
17:42:02 <fantasai> jdaggett: Not ideal, but better than having csswg.org be a point of failure
17:42:02 <glenn> jdaggett: not necessary to use .htaccess facilities
17:42:12 <tantek> I agree, I'd rather delay the source control transition if it means we can avoid one or more temporary places for specs.
17:42:23 <fantasai> Scribenick: glenn
17:42:36 <glenn> plinss: timing to be finalized today
17:42:43 <glenn> ... infrastructure in place
17:42:53 <glenn> ... wishes better docs, but working on them today
17:43:02 <glenn> ... no addl burden on editors
17:43:28 <glenn> jdaggett: questions using URLs to refer to csswg.org host
17:43:39 <tantek> I have not had time to retry the hg instructions again to see where I get stuck next btw.
17:43:41 <glenn> plinss: suggests reverse proxy on dev.w3.org
17:43:50 <glenn> bert: pretty sure its possible
17:44:13 <dbaron> (Why do a reverse proxy on a w3c server if we could just do a checkout on a w3c server?)
17:44:15 <glenn> plinss: this is just a stop gap, i.e., using csswg.org
17:44:23 <tantek> exactly, what dbaron said
17:44:32 <glenn> jdaggett: doesn't see need for interim step
17:44:36 <tantek> can we delay transition and avoid stopgaps?
17:44:41 <tantek> what's the rush?
17:44:51 <glenn> plinss: if we use reverse proxy, nobody will know
17:45:21 <tantek> I agree with the concerns that jdaggett has raised.
17:45:22 <glenn> ... will start with proxy on dev.w3.org to csswg.org
17:45:36 <glenn> jdaggett: doesn't like having csswg.org as a point of failure
17:45:50 <glenn> plinss: only for a few weeks/months
17:46:04 <glenn> jdaggett: doesn't see this step as necessary
17:46:14 <dbaron> If there's a chance we can make this happen in a matter of days, I think we should try to get that to happen.
17:46:45 <dbaron> I think it's preferable to have the editors drafts have w3.org URLs
17:46:46 <glenn> plinss: what's the big deal?
17:46:54 <glenn> jdaggett: sounds like extra work for nothing
17:47:20 <glenn> ... had breakage previously
17:47:38 <glenn> <going in loops here... glazou?>
17:47:54 <fantasai> plinss: They'll be served from dev.w3.org URLs
17:48:02 <glenn> glazou: pls take to email or irc after call
17:48:15 <fantasai> plinss: so why do you care
17:48:17 <Zakim> -??P1
17:48:24 <glenn> TOPIC: css3 images
17:48:37 <glenn> fantasai: DoC but won't get through them today
17:48:51 <dbaron> http://dev.w3.org/csswg/css3-images/issues-lc-2012 is the thing to discuss?
17:48:51 <glenn> ... all should review DoC and discuss issues during next telecon
17:48:55 <dbaron> er, to review?
17:49:01 <TabAtkins_> http://dev.w3.org/csswg/css3-images/issues-lc-2012
17:49:02 <glenn> ... suggests talking now about taking V&U to LC
17:49:17 <glenn> glazou: reds need review
17:49:31 <glenn> fantasai: all are pretty tricky
17:49:40 <glenn> tab: need other people looking at them
17:49:51 <Zakim> +??P0
17:50:14 <glenn> glazou: action on all to review DoC and comment
17:50:21 <sylvaing> title of css3-images DoC is 'CSS Backgrounds and Borders Level 3'
17:50:31 <glenn> ... what else to say now about this doc?
17:50:40 <glenn> tab: just discuss DoC
17:50:50 <glenn> florianr: like to go back to MQ
17:50:59 <glenn> ... current TS is not latest version
17:51:12 <glenn> fantasai: already has action item to do this
17:51:22 <glenn> florianr: will write results for opera
17:51:26 <fantasai> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/w3c-css-wg/2012JanMar/0309.html
17:51:33 <glenn> ... also some editorial changes, should republish
17:51:41 <glenn> ... question about when
17:51:55 <florianr> http://my.opera.com/desktopteam/blog/2012/02/28/precision-engine
17:52:03 <glenn> fantasai: suggests passing (opera) build first
17:52:27 <glenn> florianr: go to LC then hopefully CR
17:52:36 <glenn> s/florianr/fantasai/
17:52:40 <fantasai> s/CR/PR/
17:52:51 <fantasai> fantasai: or are they only editorial?
17:52:58 <fantasai> florianr: Borderline
17:53:09 <fantasai> florianr: Not changing what they say, just what people understand them to say
17:53:42 <glenn> florianr: a request on ML for example
17:53:53 <glenn> fantasai: no opinion
17:54:19 <BobBie> hi
17:54:27 <glazou> glazou has joined #css
17:54:35 <glenn> florianr: suggest not adding this specific example because it refers to feature not referenced
17:55:14 <glenn> ... request for example using rem unit
17:55:41 <glenn> sylvaing: think is not needed
17:55:53 <glazou> s/sylvaing/glazou
17:55:56 <glenn> dbaron: but may help clarify spec text, units never based on results of declarations
17:56:15 <glenn> ... unambiguous that rem behaves same way
17:56:32 <dbaron> Add to "Relative units in media queries are based on the initial value."
17:56:34 <glenn> ... add to sentence "relative units ..."
17:56:37 <Zakim> -Oliver_Goldman
17:56:52 <glenn> florianr: sounds good, will edit and republish
17:57:08 <glenn> <is there a resolution? pls someone type into irc>
17:57:29 <glazou> RESOLUTION: Add to "Relative units in media queries are based on the initial value."
17:57:31 <glenn> dbaron: previous version in draft is obsolete
17:57:32 <Zakim> -dstorey
17:57:47 <glenn> chrisl: if all editorial, don
17:57:52 <dbaron> s/previous version in draft is obsolete/previous version link in draft points to previous previous version/
17:57:53 <glenn> ... don't need another LC
17:58:00 <glenn> ... or is proposal to go to PR?
17:58:05 <glenn> dbaron: possible in one week
17:58:15 <glenn> ... depends on impl reports
17:58:24 <glenn> florianr: can have IRs tomorrow
17:58:28 <glenn> fantasai: agreed
17:58:47 <glenn> dbaron: mozilla passes all the tests in the repo
17:59:41 <krit> krit has joined #css
17:59:42 <glenn> florianr: should we list previous editors as current editors or previous?
17:59:52 <glenn> ... currently listed as previous
17:59:56 <jdaggett> previous editors seems fine
18:00:03 <glenn> glazou: no opinion
18:00:09 <glenn> tab: list as previous
18:00:24 <glenn> stevez: long tradition
18:00:27 <dbaron> though sometimes the "previous editors" is editors for a previous level of the spec, which is sort of different...
18:00:58 <danielweck> Zakim, ??P0 is me
18:00:58 <Zakim> +danielweck; got it
18:01:08 <Zakim> -jdaggett
18:01:13 <Bert> RESOLVED: move editors of MQ who are no longer active to "Former editor"
18:01:37 <dbaron> fantasai: Everybody ok with removing the comma between attribute name and type in the attr() function?
18:01:39 <glenn> fantasai: is everbody ok with removing comma between ? and ?
18:01:48 <glenn> glazou: not fair to ask this now at end of call
18:01:58 <Bert> (I don't like it without the comma, but can live with it.)
18:02:05 <dbaron> peterl: We discussed it at f2f, and howcome was only dissenter.
18:02:14 <dbaron> peterl: And howcome just said he's ok with it.
18:02:32 <glenn> <is there a resolution?>
18:02:41 <Zakim> -smfr
18:02:41 <glenn> <fantasai, pls type resolution>
18:02:43 <kimberly> kimberly has left #css
18:02:43 <dbaron> RESOLVED: publish last call of css3-values
18:02:43 <Zakim> -kimberly
18:02:48 <Zakim> -howcome
18:02:49 <glenn> glazou: adjourned
18:02:51 <Zakim> -nimbu
18:02:52 <Zakim> -sylvaing
18:02:54 <Zakim> -ChrisL
18:02:54 <fantasai> RESOLVED: drop comma between attribute name and type in attr()
18:02:56 <Zakim> -glazou
18:02:57 <Zakim> -[Google]
18:02:58 <Zakim> -hober
18:02:58 <Zakim> -dbaron
18:02:59 <Zakim> -[IPcaller]
18:02:59 <Zakim> -stearns
18:03:01 <Zakim> -SteveZ
18:03:01 <glenn> rrsagent, publish minutes
18:03:01 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/02/29-css-minutes.html glenn
18:03:03 <Zakim> -bradk
18:03:05 <Zakim> -antonp
18:03:07 <Zakim> -Bert
18:03:08 <TabAtkins_> RESOLVED: publish V&U as LCWD.
18:03:09 <Zakim> -kojiishi
18:03:11 <Zakim> -??P45
18:03:13 <Zakim> -plinss
18:03:15 <Zakim> - +8521616aabb
18:03:26 <glenn> trackbot, end meeting
18:03:26 <trackbot> Zakim, list attendees
18:03:26 <Zakim> As of this point the attendees have been nimbu, glazou, plinss, jdaggett, glenn, florianr, smfr, sylvaing, +1.650.253.aaaa, stearns, Oliver_Goldman, TabAtkins_, hober, krit, Bert,
18:03:29 <Zakim> ... antonp, arronei, danielweck, kimberly, SteveZ, ChrisL, +8521616aabb, +1.408.421.aacc, +1.415.766.aadd, dbaron, +47.23.69.aaee, kojiishi, dstorey, Rossen, alexmog_,
18:03:30 <Zakim> ... +1.650.766.aaff, bradk, [Microsoft], +47.23.69.aagg, howcome
18:03:33 <fantasai> Bert, is CSS Speech CR in the pipeline yet?
18:03:34 <trackbot> RRSAgent, please draft minutes
18:03:34 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/02/29-css-minutes.html trackbot
18:03:35 <trackbot> RRSAgent, bye
18:03:35 <RRSAgent> I see 1 open action item saved in http://www.w3.org/2012/02/29-css-actions.rdf :
18:03:35 <RRSAgent> ACTION: ChrisL to publish flexbox wd [1]
18:03:35 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2012/02/29-css-irc#T17-07-50