IRC log of fx on 2012-02-20

Timestamps are in UTC.

21:02:01 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #fx
21:02:02 [RRSAgent]
logging to http://www.w3.org/2012/02/20-fx-irc
21:02:03 [trackbot]
RRSAgent, make logs world
21:02:03 [Zakim]
Zakim has joined #fx
21:02:05 [trackbot]
Zakim, this will be 3983
21:02:05 [Zakim]
ok, trackbot; I see GA_FXTF()4:00PM scheduled to start 2 minutes ago
21:02:06 [trackbot]
Meeting: CSS-SVG Task Force Teleconference
21:02:06 [trackbot]
Date: 20 February 2012
21:02:25 [hober]
Zakim, who is on the phone?
21:02:25 [Zakim]
GA_FXTF()4:00PM has not yet started, hober
21:02:27 [Zakim]
On IRC I see RRSAgent, cabanier, Tav, ed, krijnh, stearns, shepazu, heycam|away, vhardy, plinss, trackbot, hober, paul___irish, CSSWG_LogBot, fantasai
21:02:49 [krit]
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21:03:14 [shepazu]
Zakim, code?
21:03:14 [Zakim]
the conference code is 3983 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), shepazu
21:04:01 [krit]
zakim, who's here
21:04:01 [Zakim]
krit, you need to end that query with '?'
21:04:09 [krit]
zakim, who's here
21:04:09 [Zakim]
krit, you need to end that query with '?'
21:04:09 [krit]
1:04
21:04:09 [krit]
?
21:04:11 [ed]
present+ ed, hober
21:04:22 [krit]
zakim, who's here?
21:04:22 [Zakim]
GA_FXTF()4:00PM has not yet started, krit
21:04:22 [cabanier]
cabanier has joined #fx
21:04:23 [krit]
:)
21:04:23 [Zakim]
On IRC I see krit, Zakim, RRSAgent, Tav, ed, krijnh, stearns, shepazu, heycam|away, vhardy, plinss, trackbot, hober, paul___irish, CSSWG_LogBot, fantasai
21:05:48 [ed]
present+ shepazu
21:05:55 [ed]
present+ rik
21:06:12 [krit]
I fear that my microphone is not working
21:06:18 [krit]
I have to rely on IRC
21:06:20 [cabanier]
zakim, who is on the phone
21:06:20 [Zakim]
I don't understand 'who is on the phone', cabanier
21:06:39 [dino]
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21:07:10 [ed]
present+ dirk
21:07:52 [ed]
present+ tav
21:08:00 [ed]
Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-fx/2012JanMar/0100.html
21:08:50 [cabanier]
zakim, who is on the phone?
21:08:50 [Zakim]
GA_FXTF()4:00PM has not yet started, cabanier
21:08:50 [krit]
The only open issue on Transforms for SVG is how to animate CSS transform property with SMIL
21:08:51 [Zakim]
On IRC I see dino, cabanier, krit, Zakim, RRSAgent, Tav, ed, krijnh, stearns, shepazu, heycam|away, vhardy, plinss, trackbot, hober, paul___irish, CSSWG_LogBot, fantasai
21:09:00 [dino]
zakim, this is fx
21:09:00 [Zakim]
ok, dino; that matches GA_FXTF()4:00PM
21:09:17 [dino]
zakim, who is here?
21:09:17 [Zakim]
On the phone I see [Apple], [IPcaller], [IPcaller.a], +1.206.734.aaaa, Doug_Schepers, Tav, +1.408.881.aabb
21:09:19 [Zakim]
On IRC I see dino, cabanier, krit, Zakim, RRSAgent, Tav, ed, krijnh, stearns, shepazu, heycam|away, vhardy, plinss, trackbot, hober, paul___irish, CSSWG_LogBot, fantasai
21:09:23 [hober]
Zakim, Apple has me
21:09:23 [Zakim]
+hober; got it
21:09:25 [dino]
zakim, i am aabb
21:09:25 [Zakim]
+dino; got it
21:09:34 [cabanier]
zakim , +1.206.734.aaaa is me
21:10:37 [ed]
Zakim, pick a victim?
21:10:37 [Zakim]
I don't understand your question, ed.
21:10:45 [ed]
Zakim, pick a victim
21:10:45 [Zakim]
Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose [pple]
21:11:03 [ed]
Zakim, pick a victim
21:11:03 [Zakim]
Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose [IPcaller.a]
21:11:05 [dino]
people?
21:11:27 [ed]
Zakim, [IPcall is me
21:11:27 [Zakim]
sorry, ed, I do not recognize a party named '[IPcall'
21:11:27 [krit]
I try to call in from another phone...
21:11:33 [ed]
Zakim, [IPcaller.a] is me
21:11:33 [Zakim]
+ed; got it
21:11:34 [cabanier]
scribenick: cabanier
21:11:42 [Zakim]
-[IPcaller]
21:11:55 [cabanier]
zakim , 1.206.734.aaaa is me
21:12:00 [cabanier]
zakim, +1.206.734.aaaa is me
21:12:00 [Zakim]
+cabanier; got it
21:12:21 [cabanier]
topic: linearRGB vs sRGB for filter effects
21:12:22 [ed]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-fx/2012JanMar/0078.html
21:12:53 [cabanier]
cabanier: I wanted Chris to be here to have this discussion
21:12:58 [Zakim]
+[IPcaller]
21:13:28 [ed]
Zakim, [IPcaller] is dirk
21:13:28 [Zakim]
+dirk; got it
21:13:32 [cabanier]
cabanier: I understand why it's there, I don't think it's the default
21:13:46 [cabanier]
ed: should we postpone?
21:13:58 [cabanier]
cabanier: let's postpone
21:14:10 [cabanier]
topic: SVG attributes to presentation attributes
21:14:49 [cabanier]
krit: did you get my email about how to animate CSS attributes with SMIL
21:15:13 [cabanier]
krit: ed, you said you needed feedback from the development team
21:15:40 [krit]
http://www.w3.org/Graphics/fx/wiki/SVG_attribute_to_presentation_attribute
21:15:59 [krit]
http://www.w3.org/Graphics/fx/wiki/SVG_attribute_to_presentation_attribute#Issue_4:_Which_style_should_be_represented_by_SVG_DOMs_animVal
21:17:16 [ed]
ed: yes, sent offlist, but basically in agreement with the proposal
21:17:54 [cabanier]
krit: SMIL animation would be on top of the current CSS animations
21:18:30 [smfr]
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21:19:02 [Zakim]
+ +1.408.636.aacc
21:19:08 [cabanier]
ed: the computed style would reflect animval
21:19:13 [smfr]
Zakim, aacc is me
21:19:13 [Zakim]
+smfr; got it
21:19:39 [ed]
s/ animval/ animval?
21:20:28 [cabanier]
ed: what is your recommendation?
21:20:52 [cabanier]
krit: 1. override style reflects current animations
21:21:04 [cabanier]
krit: 2. Introduce a new style for SVG animations
21:21:32 [cabanier]
krit: and the computed style would reflect this new style. could be called SMIL style
21:22:44 [cabanier]
cabanier: do you think the model are compatible?
21:22:49 [cabanier]
krit: yes, I think so
21:23:20 [cabanier]
cabanier: so they run independantly?
21:23:24 [cabanier]
krit: yes
21:23:45 [ed]
http://www.w3.org/Graphics/fx/wiki/SVG_attribute_to_presentation_attribute#Current_presentation_attributes_in_the_CSS_cascading
21:24:30 [ed]
ed: so is that image i just linked to correct now?
21:25:03 [cabanier]
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21:26:20 [cabanier]
ed: do we want to wait for corrections to the proposal?
21:26:55 [cabanier]
krit: the wiki is up to date
21:27:28 [cabanier]
cabanier: do you know what the new style is?
21:27:40 [cabanier]
krit: it's an abstract style that is implemented by the browser
21:28:12 [cabanier]
ed: animVal becomes a shorthand for getcomputedstyle but with typing. You skip the string serialization
21:28:21 [cabanier]
ed: that is fine with me
21:29:54 [cabanier]
resolution: issue #4 is accepted from wiki: http://www.w3.org/Graphics/fx/wiki/SVG_attribute_to_presentation_attribute#Issue_4:_Which_style_should_be_represented_by_SVG_DOMs_animVal
21:31:10 [ed]
to be clear, the solution is to introduce a new style for SVG animations, as described there
21:31:12 [cabanier]
ed: are there other transform issues?
21:31:22 [cabanier]
krit: we want to move to WD as soon as possible
21:31:35 [cabanier]
krit: I believe it will be done this week
21:32:16 [cabanier]
smfr: are we going to remove the DOM access methods?
21:32:24 [smfr]
http://dev.w3.org/csswg/css3-transforms/#dom-interfaces
21:32:24 [cabanier]
krit: yes
21:32:43 [cabanier]
smfr: CSS matrix, CSS transform value
21:33:31 [cabanier]
krit: and we'll have another discussion on FX, or SVG
21:33:39 [cabanier]
krit: it doesn't affect CSS any more
21:33:43 [cabanier]
ed: how so?
21:34:22 [cabanier]
krit: that is because CSS matrix is removed
21:34:39 [cabanier]
and we no longer have to describe how SVG and CSS interface
21:35:16 [cabanier]
cabanier: and the new keywords are accepted by the CSS people? (such as rotate(alpha, a, b)
21:35:21 [cabanier]
krit: yes
21:35:49 [cabanier]
krit: the discussion on that has stopped
21:36:07 [cabanier]
smfr: and transform-origin is defined for SVG?
21:36:23 [cabanier]
krit: yes, for SVG it will be (0, 0)
21:36:45 [cabanier]
smfr: the rotate with two parameters gives the author more to think about
21:37:23 [cabanier]
smfr: these 2 optional arguments may make it less clear about what is happening
21:37:39 [cabanier]
smfr: the rules are already complex
21:37:51 [cabanier]
smft: and no browsers currently implement it yet
21:38:34 [cabanier]
krit: these are just 2 arguments to align the CSS and SVG models
21:38:55 [cabanier]
krit: for current authors, it might be new
21:39:19 [cabanier]
krit: but it's needed for backward compatibility with SVG parsing rules?
21:39:24 [cabanier]
ed: when is the WD ready?
21:39:45 [cabanier]
krit: depends on the CSS WG
21:40:02 [cabanier]
ed: yes, I pinged them when they can make their resolution
21:40:39 [cabanier]
ed: let's skip the next topics since we need input from Microsoft and they are not here
21:41:47 [cabanier]
shepazu: about the transform spec, there were 12 topics called out, are we going to resolve it?
21:42:09 [smfr]
https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/buglist.cgi?product=CSS&component=Transforms&resolution=---
21:42:18 [cabanier]
krit: the WG draft spec doesn't say that all issues have to be resolved
21:42:34 [cabanier]
shepazu: yes, but we better get start on this
21:43:28 [cabanier]
shepazu: I've been talking to authors and they want different origins with a set of transforms
21:44:00 [cabanier]
krit: I don't think we want to support that for CSS3 transforms
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21:44:23 [cabanier]
shepazu: that means it won't be there for 2-3 years at least
21:44:29 [cabanier]
krit: correct
21:44:49 [cabanier]
shepazu: what about tests? Aria has some test I believe
21:45:02 [hober]
s/Aria/Aryeh/
21:45:25 [cabanier]
krit: Adobe is working on SVG inside of webkit and we're working on some tests
21:45:35 [cabanier]
Tav: but you need 2 working implementations for the tests
21:46:02 [cabanier]
ed: do you have the test working in a web template or using the CSS WG testing harnass?
21:46:23 [cabanier]
krit: no, they are just WebKit test but we can move them to W3C tests
21:47:09 [cabanier]
ed: the guidelines say that they don't accept SVG test. You need a HMTL wrapper
21:47:22 [cabanier]
ed: the tools don't support straight SVG
21:47:35 [cabanier]
krit: inline SVG should be possible
21:47:41 [ed]
s/the guidelines/the csswg testsuite guidelines
21:47:47 [cabanier]
shepazu: we should have both: inline and straight SVG
21:48:29 [cabanier]
shepazu: do we need 2 passing tests for HTML but do we need 2 passing test for SVG as well?
21:49:16 [cabanier]
smfr: we talked about different conformance classes in the spec. Not sure what the status is.
21:49:34 [cabanier]
shepazu: what is the status of the 2d/3d spec?
21:49:46 [cabanier]
smfr: I agree with tantek
21:49:59 [cabanier]
smfr: the major interop issues should be resolved
21:50:20 [cabanier]
smfr: agree that we should move to last call
21:50:41 [cabanier]
shepazu: not sure what LC accomplishes if we still have open issues
21:51:04 [cabanier]
smfr: tantek believes that they want to drop prefixes as soon as possible
21:51:30 [cabanier]
shepazu: but we don't have conforming implementations right?
21:51:45 [cabanier]
shepazu: what does dropping prefixes have to do with LC?
21:52:07 [cabanier]
smfr: well, the sooner you do LC the faster you can go the CR
21:52:37 [cabanier]
shepazu: isn't it more reasonable to agree on when to drop prefixes than to rush the spec?
21:52:40 [cabanier]
ed: I agree
21:53:23 [cabanier]
shepazu: if there is a full test suite that tests each feature and everyone passes is, at that point you can drop prefixes
21:53:56 [cabanier]
shepazu: his goal is putting the horse behind the cart.
21:54:14 [cabanier]
smft: this was discussed at length. It's been covered already
21:54:14 [dino]
read the thousands of emails
21:55:37 [cabanier]
smfr: I believe tantek's proposal was similar to yours
21:55:54 [cabanier]
shepazu: I will read up on the process and take it to the list
21:56:10 [smfr]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2012Feb/0528.html
21:56:12 [cabanier]
shepazu: I want to move this forward faster
21:57:07 [cabanier]
shepazu: we've been talking about this at w3c and we want to move forward on this spec asap too
21:57:17 [cabanier]
shepazu: let us know if you need help
21:57:41 [Zakim]
-smfr
21:57:44 [Zakim]
-ed
21:57:46 [Zakim]
-dino
21:57:46 [Zakim]
-[Apple]
21:57:48 [Zakim]
-Tav
21:57:49 [Zakim]
-Doug_Schepers
21:57:51 [Zakim]
-cabanier
21:58:13 [Zakim]
-dirk
21:58:14 [Zakim]
GA_FXTF()4:00PM has ended
21:58:14 [Zakim]
Attendees were Doug_Schepers, Tav, +1.408.881.aabb, hober, dino, ed, cabanier, dirk, +1.408.636.aacc, smfr
21:58:19 [cabanier]
yes
21:58:24 [ed]
Zakim, end telcon
21:58:24 [Zakim]
I don't understand 'end telcon', ed
21:58:30 [cabanier]
RRSAgent, make minutes
21:58:30 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/02/20-fx-minutes.html cabanier
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