21:02:01 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #fx
21:02:02 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2012/02/20-fx-irc
21:02:03 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world
21:02:03 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #fx
21:02:05 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be 3983
21:02:05 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see GA_FXTF()4:00PM scheduled to start 2 minutes ago
21:02:06 <trackbot> Meeting: CSS-SVG Task Force Teleconference
21:02:06 <trackbot> Date: 20 February 2012
21:02:25 <hober> Zakim, who is on the phone?
21:02:25 <Zakim> GA_FXTF()4:00PM has not yet started, hober
21:02:27 <Zakim> On IRC I see RRSAgent, cabanier, Tav, ed, krijnh, stearns, shepazu, heycam|away, vhardy, plinss, trackbot, hober, paul___irish, CSSWG_LogBot, fantasai
21:02:49 <krit> krit has joined #fx
21:03:14 <shepazu> Zakim, code?
21:03:14 <Zakim> the conference code is 3983 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), shepazu
21:04:01 <krit> zakim, who's here
21:04:01 <Zakim> krit, you need to end that query with '?'
21:04:09 <krit> zakim, who's here
21:04:09 <Zakim> krit, you need to end that query with '?'
21:04:09 <krit> 1:04
21:04:09 <krit> ?
21:04:11 <ed> present+ ed, hober
21:04:22 <krit> zakim, who's here?
21:04:22 <Zakim> GA_FXTF()4:00PM has not yet started, krit
21:04:22 <cabanier> cabanier has joined #fx
21:04:23 <krit> :)
21:04:23 <Zakim> On IRC I see krit, Zakim, RRSAgent, Tav, ed, krijnh, stearns, shepazu, heycam|away, vhardy, plinss, trackbot, hober, paul___irish, CSSWG_LogBot, fantasai
21:05:48 <ed> present+ shepazu
21:05:55 <ed> present+ rik
21:06:12 <krit> I fear that my microphone is not working
21:06:18 <krit> I have to rely on IRC
21:06:20 <cabanier> zakim, who is on the phone
21:06:20 <Zakim> I don't understand 'who is on the phone', cabanier
21:06:39 <dino> dino has joined #fx
21:07:10 <ed> present+ dirk
21:07:52 <ed> present+ tav
21:08:00 <ed> Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-fx/2012JanMar/0100.html
21:08:50 <cabanier> zakim, who is on the phone?
21:08:50 <Zakim> GA_FXTF()4:00PM has not yet started, cabanier
21:08:50 <krit> The only open issue on Transforms for SVG is how to animate CSS transform property with SMIL
21:08:51 <Zakim> On IRC I see dino, cabanier, krit, Zakim, RRSAgent, Tav, ed, krijnh, stearns, shepazu, heycam|away, vhardy, plinss, trackbot, hober, paul___irish, CSSWG_LogBot, fantasai
21:09:00 <dino> zakim, this is fx
21:09:00 <Zakim> ok, dino; that matches GA_FXTF()4:00PM
21:09:17 <dino> zakim, who is here?
21:09:17 <Zakim> On the phone I see [Apple], [IPcaller], [IPcaller.a], +1.206.734.aaaa, Doug_Schepers, Tav, +1.408.881.aabb
21:09:19 <Zakim> On IRC I see dino, cabanier, krit, Zakim, RRSAgent, Tav, ed, krijnh, stearns, shepazu, heycam|away, vhardy, plinss, trackbot, hober, paul___irish, CSSWG_LogBot, fantasai
21:09:23 <hober> Zakim, Apple has me
21:09:23 <Zakim> +hober; got it
21:09:25 <dino> zakim, i am aabb
21:09:25 <Zakim> +dino; got it
21:09:34 <cabanier> zakim , +1.206.734.aaaa is me
21:10:37 <ed> Zakim, pick a victim?
21:10:37 <Zakim> I don't understand your question, ed.
21:10:45 <ed> Zakim, pick a victim
21:10:45 <Zakim> Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose [pple]
21:11:03 <ed> Zakim, pick a victim
21:11:03 <Zakim> Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose [IPcaller.a]
21:11:05 <dino> people?
21:11:27 <ed> Zakim, [IPcall is me
21:11:27 <Zakim> sorry, ed, I do not recognize a party named '[IPcall'
21:11:27 <krit> I try to call in from another phone...
21:11:33 <ed> Zakim, [IPcaller.a] is me
21:11:33 <Zakim> +ed; got it
21:11:34 <cabanier> scribenick: cabanier
21:11:42 <Zakim> -[IPcaller]
21:11:55 <cabanier> zakim , 1.206.734.aaaa is me
21:12:00 <cabanier> zakim, +1.206.734.aaaa is me
21:12:00 <Zakim> +cabanier; got it
21:12:21 <cabanier> topic: linearRGB vs sRGB for filter effects
21:12:22 <ed> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-fx/2012JanMar/0078.html
21:12:53 <cabanier> cabanier: I wanted Chris to be here to have this discussion
21:12:58 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
21:13:28 <ed> Zakim, [IPcaller] is dirk
21:13:28 <Zakim> +dirk; got it
21:13:32 <cabanier> cabanier: I understand why it's there, I don't think it's the default
21:13:46 <cabanier> ed: should we postpone?
21:13:58 <cabanier> cabanier: let's postpone
21:14:10 <cabanier> topic: SVG attributes to presentation attributes
21:14:49 <cabanier> krit: did you get my email about how to animate CSS attributes with SMIL
21:15:13 <cabanier> krit: ed, you said you needed feedback from the development team
21:15:40 <krit> http://www.w3.org/Graphics/fx/wiki/SVG_attribute_to_presentation_attribute
21:15:59 <krit> http://www.w3.org/Graphics/fx/wiki/SVG_attribute_to_presentation_attribute#Issue_4:_Which_style_should_be_represented_by_SVG_DOMs_animVal
21:17:16 <ed> ed: yes, sent offlist, but basically in agreement with the proposal
21:17:54 <cabanier> krit: SMIL animation would be on top of the current CSS animations
21:18:30 <smfr> smfr has joined #fx
21:19:02 <Zakim> + +1.408.636.aacc
21:19:08 <cabanier> ed: the computed style would reflect animval
21:19:13 <smfr> Zakim, aacc is me
21:19:13 <Zakim> +smfr; got it
21:19:39 <ed> s/ animval/ animval?
21:20:28 <cabanier> ed: what is your recommendation?
21:20:52 <cabanier> krit: 1. override style reflects current animations
21:21:04 <cabanier> krit: 2. Introduce a new style for SVG animations
21:21:32 <cabanier> krit: and the computed style would reflect this new style. could be called SMIL style
21:22:44 <cabanier> cabanier: do you think the model are compatible?
21:22:49 <cabanier> krit: yes, I think so
21:23:20 <cabanier> cabanier: so they run independantly?
21:23:24 <cabanier> krit: yes
21:23:45 <ed> http://www.w3.org/Graphics/fx/wiki/SVG_attribute_to_presentation_attribute#Current_presentation_attributes_in_the_CSS_cascading
21:24:30 <ed> ed: so is that image i just linked to correct now?
21:25:03 <cabanier> cabanier has joined #fx
21:26:20 <cabanier> ed: do we want to wait for corrections to the proposal?
21:26:55 <cabanier> krit: the wiki is up to date
21:27:28 <cabanier> cabanier: do you know what the new style is?
21:27:40 <cabanier> krit: it's an abstract style that is implemented by the browser
21:28:12 <cabanier> ed: animVal becomes a shorthand for getcomputedstyle but with typing. You skip the string serialization
21:28:21 <cabanier> ed: that is fine with me
21:29:54 <cabanier> resolution: issue #4 is accepted from wiki: http://www.w3.org/Graphics/fx/wiki/SVG_attribute_to_presentation_attribute#Issue_4:_Which_style_should_be_represented_by_SVG_DOMs_animVal
21:31:10 <ed> to be clear, the solution is to introduce a new style for SVG animations, as described there
21:31:12 <cabanier> ed: are there other transform issues?
21:31:22 <cabanier> krit: we want to move to WD as soon as possible
21:31:35 <cabanier> krit: I believe it will be done this week 
21:32:16 <cabanier> smfr: are we going to remove the DOM access methods?
21:32:24 <smfr> http://dev.w3.org/csswg/css3-transforms/#dom-interfaces
21:32:24 <cabanier> krit: yes
21:32:43 <cabanier> smfr: CSS matrix, CSS transform value
21:33:31 <cabanier> krit: and we'll have another discussion on FX, or SVG
21:33:39 <cabanier> krit: it doesn't affect CSS any more
21:33:43 <cabanier> ed: how so?
21:34:22 <cabanier> krit: that is because CSS matrix is removed
21:34:39 <cabanier> and we no longer have to describe how SVG and CSS interface
21:35:16 <cabanier> cabanier: and the new keywords are accepted by the CSS people? (such as rotate(alpha, a, b)
21:35:21 <cabanier> krit: yes
21:35:49 <cabanier> krit: the discussion on that has stopped
21:36:07 <cabanier> smfr: and transform-origin is defined for SVG?
21:36:23 <cabanier> krit: yes, for SVG it will be (0, 0)
21:36:45 <cabanier> smfr: the rotate with two parameters gives the author more to think about
21:37:23 <cabanier> smfr: these 2 optional arguments may make it less clear about what is happening
21:37:39 <cabanier> smfr: the rules are already complex
21:37:51 <cabanier> smft: and no browsers currently implement it yet
21:38:34 <cabanier> krit: these are just 2 arguments to align the CSS and SVG models
21:38:55 <cabanier> krit: for current authors, it might be new
21:39:19 <cabanier> krit: but it's needed for backward compatibility with SVG parsing rules?
21:39:24 <cabanier> ed: when is the WD ready?
21:39:45 <cabanier> krit: depends on the CSS WG
21:40:02 <cabanier> ed: yes, I pinged them when they can make their resolution
21:40:39 <cabanier> ed: let's skip the next topics since we need input from Microsoft and they are not here
21:41:47 <cabanier> shepazu: about the transform spec, there were 12 topics called out, are we going to resolve it?
21:42:09 <smfr> https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/buglist.cgi?product=CSS&component=Transforms&resolution=---
21:42:18 <cabanier> krit: the WG draft spec doesn't say that all issues have to be resolved
21:42:34 <cabanier> shepazu: yes, but we better get start on this
21:43:28 <cabanier> shepazu: I've been talking to authors and they want different origins with a set of transforms
21:44:00 <cabanier> krit: I don't think we want to support that for CSS3 transforms
21:44:07 <cabanier> cabanier has joined #fx
21:44:23 <cabanier> shepazu: that means it won't be there for 2-3 years at least
21:44:29 <cabanier> krit: correct
21:44:49 <cabanier> shepazu: what about tests? Aria has some test I believe
21:45:02 <hober> s/Aria/Aryeh/
21:45:25 <cabanier> krit: Adobe is working on SVG inside of webkit and we're working on some tests
21:45:35 <cabanier> Tav: but you need 2 working implementations for the tests
21:46:02 <cabanier> ed: do you have the test working in a web template or using the CSS WG testing harnass?
21:46:23 <cabanier> krit: no, they are just WebKit test but we can move them to W3C tests
21:47:09 <cabanier> ed: the guidelines say that they don't accept SVG test. You need a HMTL wrapper
21:47:22 <cabanier> ed: the tools don't support straight SVG
21:47:35 <cabanier> krit: inline SVG should be possible
21:47:41 <ed> s/the guidelines/the csswg testsuite guidelines
21:47:47 <cabanier> shepazu: we should have both: inline and straight SVG
21:48:29 <cabanier> shepazu: do we need 2 passing tests for HTML but do we need 2 passing test for SVG as well?
21:49:16 <cabanier> smfr: we talked about different conformance classes in the spec. Not sure what the status is.
21:49:34 <cabanier> shepazu: what is the status of the 2d/3d spec?
21:49:46 <cabanier> smfr: I agree with tantek
21:49:59 <cabanier> smfr: the major interop issues should be resolved
21:50:20 <cabanier> smfr: agree that we should move to last call
21:50:41 <cabanier> shepazu: not sure what LC accomplishes if we still have open issues
21:51:04 <cabanier> smfr: tantek believes that they want to drop prefixes as soon as possible
21:51:30 <cabanier> shepazu: but we don't have conforming implementations right?
21:51:45 <cabanier> shepazu: what does dropping prefixes have to do with LC?
21:52:07 <cabanier> smfr: well, the sooner you do LC the faster you can go the CR
21:52:37 <cabanier> shepazu: isn't it more reasonable to agree on when to drop prefixes than to rush the spec?
21:52:40 <cabanier> ed: I agree
21:53:23 <cabanier> shepazu: if there is a full test suite that tests each feature and everyone passes is, at that point you can drop prefixes
21:53:56 <cabanier> shepazu: his goal is putting the horse behind the cart.
21:54:14 <cabanier> smft: this was discussed at length. It's been covered already
21:54:14 <dino> read the thousands of emails
21:55:37 <cabanier> smfr: I believe tantek's proposal was similar to yours
21:55:54 <cabanier> shepazu: I will read up on the process and take it to the list
21:56:10 <smfr> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2012Feb/0528.html
21:56:12 <cabanier> shepazu: I want to move this forward faster
21:57:07 <cabanier> shepazu: we've been talking about this at w3c and we want to move forward on this spec asap too
21:57:17 <cabanier> shepazu: let us know if you need help
21:57:41 <Zakim> -smfr
21:57:44 <Zakim> -ed
21:57:46 <Zakim> -dino
21:57:46 <Zakim> -[Apple]
21:57:48 <Zakim> -Tav
21:57:49 <Zakim> -Doug_Schepers
21:57:51 <Zakim> -cabanier
21:58:13 <Zakim> -dirk
21:58:14 <Zakim> GA_FXTF()4:00PM has ended
21:58:14 <Zakim> Attendees were Doug_Schepers, Tav, +1.408.881.aabb, hober, dino, ed, cabanier, dirk, +1.408.636.aacc, smfr
21:58:19 <cabanier> yes
21:58:24 <ed> Zakim, end telcon
21:58:24 <Zakim> I don't understand 'end telcon', ed
21:58:30 <cabanier> RRSAgent, make minutes
21:58:30 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/02/20-fx-minutes.html cabanier
22:02:11 <smfr> smfr has left #fx
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