IRC log of rd on 2012-02-16

Timestamps are in UTC.

16:03:52 [RRSAgent]: RRSAgent has joined #rd
16:03:52 [RRSAgent]: logging to http://www.w3.org/2012/02/16-rd-irc
16:03:54 [trackbot]: RRSAgent, make logs world
16:03:55 [Zakim]: Shawn should now be muted
16:03:56 [trackbot]: Zakim, this will be 7394
16:03:57 [trackbot]: Meeting: Research and Development Working Group Teleconference
16:03:57 [trackbot]: Date: 16 February 2012
16:03:58 [Zakim]: agendum 5, Next Topics Ordering, closed
16:03:59 [sharper]: Chair: Harper_Simon
16:03:59 [Zakim]: I see 2 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
16:03:59 [sharper]: Agenda+ Welcome & Logistics (Regrets, Agenda Requests, Comments)
16:03:59 [sharper]: Agenda+ Review of W3C Note 1!
16:03:59 [sharper]: Agenda+ Any Other Business
16:04:01 [Zakim]: 6. Mobile Discussion re Topics and Call for Paper [from sharper]
16:04:09 [Zakim]: agendum 5, Next Topics Ordering, dropped
16:04:17 [sharper]: zakim, save agenda
16:04:29 [Zakim]: agendum 6, Mobile Discussion re Topics and Call for Paper, dropped
16:04:32 [Zakim]: agendum 7, Any Other Business, dropped
16:04:34 [Zakim]: +yeliz; got it
16:04:36 [Zakim]: Peter should no longer be muted
16:04:41 [giorgio]: shadi can you hear me?
16:05:02 [Zakim]: ok, trackbot; I see WAI_RDWG()11:00AM scheduled to start 3 minutes ago
16:05:20 [Zakim]: ok, sharper, the agenda has been written to http://www.w3.org/2012/02/16-rd-agenda.rdf
16:05:22 [yeliz]: zakim, mute me
16:05:24 [sharper]: sorry, i'll be delayed
16:05:34 [Peter]: zakim, mute me
16:05:35 [markel]: markel has joined #rd
16:05:35 [yeliz]: zakim, mute me
16:05:47 [shadi]: zakim, who is on the phone?
16:06:01 [sharper]: zakim, agenda?
16:06:11 [Zakim]: sorry, yeliz, I don't know what conference this is
16:06:24 [Zakim]: sorry, Peter, I don't know what conference this is
16:06:25 [Peter]: awwww
16:06:30 [Zakim]: sorry, yeliz, I don't know what conference this is
16:06:41 [giorgio]: w3c working groups are good for babies. We need more!
16:06:42 [Zakim]: I notice WAI_RDWG()11:00AM has restarted
16:06:44 [Zakim]: On the phone I see ??P48, Peter, Shadi, Shawn (muted), [IPcaller], ??P10
16:07:02 [markel]: Hi there, markel here
16:07:06 [Zakim]: I see 3 items remaining on the agenda:
16:07:07 [Zakim]: 8. Welcome & Logistics (Regrets, Agenda Requests, Comments) [from sharper]
16:07:09 [Peter]: hi Markel
16:07:09 [Zakim]: 9. Review of W3C Note 1! [from sharper]
16:07:12 [Zakim]: 10. Any Other Business [from sharper]
16:07:28 [sharper]: zakim, take up item 9
16:07:30 [shadi]: zakim, ??p10 is Markel
16:07:36 [yeliz]: zakim, ??P48 is yeliz
16:07:39 [Zakim]: +??P3
16:07:50 [yeliz]: zakim, mute me
16:07:50 [shadi]: zakim, ipcaller is Giorgio
16:08:05 [shadi]: zakim, who is on the phone?
16:08:25 [Zakim]: agendum 9. "Review of W3C Note 1!" taken up [from sharper]
16:08:26 [Peter]: +1 :)
16:08:27 [Zakim]: +Markel; got it
16:08:39 [Zakim]: +yeliz; got it
16:08:45 [Zakim]: yeliz should now be muted
16:08:50 [Zakim]: +Giorgio; got it
16:09:01 [Zakim]: On the phone I see yeliz (muted), Peter, Shadi, Shawn (muted), Giorgio, Markel, ??P3
16:09:25 [christos]: zakim, ack me
16:10:06 [Zakim]: I see no one on the speaker queue
16:10:17 [yeliz]: Ohh really
16:10:18 [christos]: do you hear me?
16:10:26 [Peter]: Yeliz yes
16:10:38 [christos]: zakim, ack me
16:10:39 [Zakim]: I see no one on the speaker queue
16:10:43 [christos]: I was muted
16:10:53 [shadi]: zakim, yeliz is really christos
16:10:53 [Zakim]: +christos; got it
16:10:57 [christos]: I was P51
16:11:00 [shadi]: zakim, ??p3 is yeliz
16:11:00 [Zakim]: +yeliz; got it
16:11:09 [shadi]: zakim, mute yeliz
16:11:09 [Zakim]: yeliz should now be muted
16:12:15 [Peter]: re-join? (have you tried turning it off and on again? :)
16:12:36 [christos]: zakim, ack me
16:12:36 [Zakim]: unmuting christos
16:12:36 [Zakim]: I see no one on the speaker queue
16:12:45 [yeliz]: OK, I think I managed it via Skype
16:12:52 [shawn]: to mute: 61# -- unmute: 60#
16:13:00 [shadi]: zakim, yeliz is really yeliz2
16:13:00 [Zakim]: +yeliz2; got it
16:13:14 [shadi]: zakim, giorgio is really Yeliz
16:13:14 [Zakim]: +Yeliz; got it
16:13:23 [shadi]: zakim, yeliz2 is really Yeliz
16:13:23 [Zakim]: +Yeliz; got it
16:13:44 [shadi]: scribe: Giorgio
16:13:53 [sharper]: zakim,code?
16:13:53 [Zakim]: the conference code is 7394 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), sharper
16:14:04 [Zakim]: +??P14
16:14:09 [sharper]: zakim, ??P14 is sharper
16:14:11 [Zakim]: +sharper; got it
16:14:20 [christos]: zakim, mute me
16:14:20 [Zakim]: christos should now be muted
16:14:36 [shadi]: zakim, mute me
16:14:36 [Zakim]: Shadi should now be muted
16:14:48 [shadi]: agenda?
16:14:59 [shadi]: zakim close agendum 8
16:15:01 [Peter]: yup
16:15:04 [christos]: I did
16:15:04 [shadi]: zakim, close agendum 8
16:15:04 [Zakim]: agendum 8, Welcome & Logistics (Regrets, Agenda Requests, Comments), closed
16:15:06 [Zakim]: I see 2 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
16:15:08 [Zakim]: 9. Review of W3C Note 1! [from sharper]
16:15:23 [giorgio]: sh wants to discuss the timeline
16:15:23 [christos]: yes...
16:15:24 [shadi]: Topic: Timeline
16:15:28 [shadi]: ack me
16:15:39 [Peter]: Zakim, unmute me
16:15:39 [Zakim]: Peter was not muted, Peter
16:15:58 [shadi]: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-wai-rd/2012Feb/0011.html
16:16:17 [markel]: I'm fine with the timeline
16:16:25 [giorgio]: everybody agrees with proposed timeline
16:16:33 [shadi]: Topic: Pre-Call
16:17:05 [giorgio]: SH: wants to discuss the topics in the wiki, next week
16:17:27 [giorgio]: SH: and make a PRE CFP public, Peter agrees
16:17:32 [Peter]: Pre call for mobile topic: http://www.w3.org/WAI/RD/wiki/Mobile_Pre_CFP
16:17:43 [Peter]: Zakim, mute me
16:17:45 [Zakim]: Peter should now be muted
16:17:57 [sharper]: Action: peter to update wiki sub topics for pre call discussion http://www.w3.org/WAI/RD/wiki/Mobile_Pre_CFP
16:17:57 [trackbot]: Created ACTION-11 - Update wiki sub topics for pre call discussion http://www.w3.org/WAI/RD/wiki/Mobile_Pre_CFP [on Peter Thiessen - due 2012-02-23].
16:18:01 [Peter]: Should say (DRAFT!) for pre call :)
16:18:43 [shadi]: zakim, take up agendum 9
16:18:43 [Zakim]: agendum 9. "Review of W3C Note 1!" taken up [from sharper]
16:19:08 [shadi]: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-wai-rd/2012Feb/0002.html
16:19:15 [giorgio]: SH: intends to go through the research note and to decide for each paragraph if it is ok or not so that editors can change
16:20:00 [shadi]: ack me
16:20:11 [giorgio]: SH: whose job is to convert odt into html?
16:20:54 [giorgio]: SZ: usually editors do it. SZ volunteers to take s input a simple html and make it suitable forthe w3c publication rules.
16:20:59 [giorgio]: thank you Shadi!
16:21:58 [giorgio]: SH: let's start.
16:22:20 [Peter]: +1
16:22:27 [christos]: +1
16:22:28 [yeliz]: +1
16:22:32 [giorgio]: SH: parag. 1 is ok
16:22:35 [sharper]: +1
16:22:54 [markel]: got it Shadi
16:22:54 [shadi]: +1 given the acronyms will be marked up
16:23:30 [Peter]: +1
16:23:32 [shawn]: request: "•The number of Level A success criteria violations." -> "•The number of Level A and AA success criteria violations."
16:23:32 [sharper]: +1
16:23:36 [christos]: +1
16:24:06 [shadi]: +1
16:24:23 [Peter]: +1
16:24:26 [sharper]: +1
16:24:26 [shadi]: [[In order to measure more abstract qualities,...]]
16:24:32 [christos]: +1
16:24:45 [shawn]: ack me
16:24:46 [shadi]: ack me
16:24:46 [giorgio]: I don't understand Shawn comment
16:24:57 [giorgio]: ok
16:25:07 [shawn]: zakim, mute me
16:25:07 [Zakim]: Shawn should now be muted
16:25:17 [shadi]: [[As a result of the computation of accessibility metrics,...]]
16:25:33 [sharper]: +1
16:25:34 [Peter]: +1
16:25:39 [christos]: +1
16:25:51 [markel]: yes
16:25:54 [giorgio]: yes, refernces
16:25:57 [giorgio]: will be linked
16:26:06 [shadi]: [[Web accessibility can be viewed and defined in different ways...]]
16:26:22 [sharper]: +1
16:26:24 [Peter]: +1
16:26:26 [christos]: +1
16:26:36 [yeliz]: +1
16:26:47 [markel]: q+
16:26:52 [shadi]: [[Other metrics can be defined if one assumes that accessibility...]]
16:27:29 [shawn]: ack m
16:27:35 [giorgio]: SH: thinks the paragraph is a bit lost
16:27:43 [giorgio]: +q
16:27:44 [markel]: unmute markel
16:27:53 [shawn]: zakim, unmute markel
16:27:53 [Zakim]: Markel was not muted, shawn
16:28:14 [markel]: I cannot be heard
16:28:20 [Peter]: a null pointer exception :)
16:28:22 [shawn]: zakim, who is muted?
16:28:23 [Zakim]: I see christos, Peter, Shawn, Yeliz.a muted
16:29:19 [shadi]: q+ to say keep where it is and reference "section 508"
16:29:28 [shadi]: ack giorgio
16:29:41 [Peter]: might be helpful for people who only skim the intro and conclusion
16:30:07 [giorgio]: GB: doesn't know where else to put those defs
16:30:30 [giorgio]: SH: suggsts to put them in the intro.
16:30:32 [Peter]: (agrees with simon)
16:30:38 [giorgio]: q+
16:30:42 [shadi]: ack me
16:30:42 [Zakim]: shadi, you wanted to say keep where it is and reference "section 508"
16:30:46 [sharper]: ack ashadi
16:30:50 [sharper]: ack shadi
16:31:11 [giorgio]: SZ: does not see the problem
16:31:48 [giorgio]: SZ: add a reference to S508
16:32:03 [Zakim]: -Yeliz.a
16:32:24 [markel]: ok so I had Yeliz's p number
16:32:29 [yeliz]: :-s
16:32:39 [yeliz]: I think Zakim is very confused today!
16:32:55 [Zakim]: +??P24
16:33:03 [giorgio]: q+
16:33:13 [markel]: it's me
16:33:27 [shawn]: zakim, ??P24 is Markel
16:33:27 [Zakim]: +Markel; got it
16:33:46 [markel]: thanks shawn
16:33:46 [Peter]: :)
16:34:38 [sharper]: ack gio
16:34:40 [giorgio]: yes shadi, I understand it. I daid it wrong!
16:34:47 [giorgio]: I said it wrong.
16:34:56 [markel]: +1
16:34:57 [giorgio]: +1
16:34:57 [shadi]: +1
16:34:58 [christos]: +1
16:34:59 [yeliz]: +1
16:35:05 [markel]: lol
16:35:05 [Peter]: lol
16:35:07 [shawn]: lol
16:35:17 [shadi]: [[Most of the existing metrics - see a review in...]]
16:35:20 [christos]: +1
16:35:24 [sharper]: +1
16:35:25 [Peter]: +1
16:35:28 [yeliz]: +1
16:35:28 [shadi]: +1
16:35:45 [shadi]: [[The error-rate of these estimations...]]
16:35:48 [sharper]: +1
16:35:51 [Peter]: +!
16:35:58 [christos]: +1
16:36:00 [Peter]: +1 (sorry zakim)
16:36:06 [shadi]: +1
16:36:10 [yeliz]: +1
16:36:18 [shadi]: [[A benchmarking survey on automatic conformance metrics...]]
16:36:25 [sharper]: +1
16:36:27 [Peter]: +1
16:36:28 [christos]: +1
16:36:29 [shawn]: q+
16:36:35 [sharper]: ack sh
16:36:35 [shawn]: ack me
16:36:38 [shadi]: +1
16:36:58 [giorgio]: Shawn: AIR is not a metric
16:37:00 [giorgio]: q+
16:37:11 [sharper]: ack g
16:38:12 [shawn]: suggest: "an example is [AIR]." -> "an example is the evaluation done with [AIR]." or such
16:38:41 [shawn]: zakim, mute me
16:38:41 [Zakim]: Shawn should now be muted
16:38:43 [shadi]: [[1.2 The Benefits of Using Metrics]]
16:38:51 [giorgio]: shawn suggsts a rewording.
16:39:06 [shadi]: q+
16:39:09 [Peter]: +1
16:39:46 [Peter]: good point Shadi
16:39:46 [giorgio]: SZ: does not like capitalizing in the paragraph. GB agrees with SZ
16:39:49 [shawn]: ack s
16:40:15 [markel]: :-)
16:40:18 [yeliz]: I agree as well
16:40:23 [shawn]: lower case Web Engineering & Retrieval
16:40:23 [shadi]: [[2. A Framework for Quality of Accessibility Metrics]]
16:40:29 [sharper]: +1
16:40:31 [Peter]: +1
16:40:38 [christos]: +1
16:40:49 [shadi]: [[2.1 Validity]]
16:41:03 [shadi]: [[This attribute is related to the extent...]]
16:41:04 [Peter]: :)
16:41:06 [yeliz]: +1
16:41:07 [sharper]: +1
16:41:15 [yeliz]: :)
16:41:17 [Peter]: (I know this is not good!)
16:41:18 [giorgio]: that's good, Simon, that there are too few pbms.
16:41:21 [christos]: +1
16:41:44 [shadi]: [[Validity is by far the most important quality...]]
16:41:50 [sharper]: +1
16:41:58 [Peter]: +1
16:42:07 [shadi]: [[2.2 Reliability]]
16:42:19 [sharper]: +1
16:42:22 [shadi]: [[This attribute is related to the reproducibility...]]
16:42:28 [Peter]: +1
16:42:55 [shadi]: [[Unreliable metrics are not good...]]
16:43:48 [christos]: +1
16:43:53 [shadi]: [[It is worth noting that one of the aims of this research note...]]
16:43:55 [Peter]: +1
16:44:02 [sharper]: +1
16:44:23 [shadi]: [[2.3 Sensitivity]]
16:44:23 [giorgio]: SH: comment on sensitivity 2.3
16:44:33 [shawn]: editorial: "webpages" -> "web pages"
16:45:11 [giorgio]: Shawn: also websites -> web sites?
16:45:29 [shawn]: websites one word :-)
16:45:32 [yeliz]: +1
16:45:40 [Peter]: +1
16:45:50 [shadi]: [[2.4 Adequacy]]
16:45:58 [yeliz]: +1
16:45:58 [christos]: +1
16:46:02 [Peter]: +1
16:46:26 [markel]: +1
16:46:34 [giorgio]: SH: suggests "like" --> such as
16:46:45 [shadi]: [[2.5 Complexity]]
16:47:09 [yeliz]: +1
16:47:25 [giorgio]: SZ: on 2.5.
16:48:02 [giorgio]: SZ: should be expanded on other notions of complexity, like number of judges or conflict resolution process.
16:48:03 [markel]: I agree with SAZ that complexity could be extended
16:48:05 [giorgio]: q+
16:48:10 [sharper]: ach g
16:48:15 [sharper]: ack g
16:48:52 [markel]: q+
16:49:01 [yeliz]: I think that would be good
16:49:47 [shadi]: ack markel
16:50:00 [giorgio]: MV: agrees with SZ. notes that this notion of complexity (computational) can be defined in a better way; the other one is more fuzzy.
16:50:19 [giorgio]: q+
16:50:45 [sharper]: ack g
16:50:48 [shadi]: ack g
16:52:15 [giorgio]: GB: is worried that we could go into too refined definitions of complexity while then being unable to refer to them.
16:52:40 [giorgio]: I agree with Shadi about the observatory.
16:52:44 [giorgio]: q+
16:52:51 [sharper]: ack g
16:54:40 [giorgio]: SZ: says that a w3c draft is asking on input and feedback from readers; we (editors) should be ready for it.
16:54:57 [shawn]: q+
16:55:04 [shawn]: q-
16:56:10 [giorgio]: q+
16:56:26 [yeliz]: I think it's important that it's highlighted
16:56:59 [markel]: I like SAZ's suggestion
16:57:19 [giorgio]: Z: says that theEU is warried that if we say there are no good metrics then accessibility is worthless.
16:57:30 [christos]: good bye
16:57:31 [markel]: markel has left #rd
16:57:31 [Zakim]: -Yeliz
16:57:32 [Zakim]: -Shawn
16:57:32 [Zakim]: -Markel
16:57:34 [Zakim]: -sharper
16:57:34 [Peter]: bye
16:57:36 [Zakim]: -Shadi
16:57:37 [sharper]: bye
16:57:40 [Zakim]: -Markel.a
16:57:41 [Zakim]: -christos
16:57:42 [Zakim]: WAI_RDWG()11:00AM has ended
16:57:42 [Zakim]: Attendees were christos, Peter, Shadi, Shawn, Markel, Yeliz, sharper
16:57:55 [sharper]: are you OK to wrap up the minutes shadi?
16:58:45 [sharper]: sharper has left #rd
16:59:02 [shadi]: yes, i will wrap up and send out
17:01:02 [shadi]: trackbot, end meeting
17:01:02 [trackbot]: Zakim, list attendees
17:01:02 [Zakim]: sorry, trackbot, I don't know what conference this is
17:01:10 [trackbot]: RRSAgent, please draft minutes
17:01:10 [RRSAgent]: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/02/16-rd-minutes.html trackbot
17:01:11 [trackbot]: RRSAgent, bye
17:01:11 [RRSAgent]: I see 1 open action item saved in http://www.w3.org/2012/02/16-rd-actions.rdf :
17:01:11 [RRSAgent]: ACTION: peter to update wiki sub topics for pre call discussion http://www.w3.org/WAI/RD/wiki/Mobile_Pre_CFP [1]
17:01:11 [RRSAgent]: recorded in http://www.w3.org/2012/02/16-rd-irc#T16-17-57