16:03:52 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #rd
16:03:52 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2012/02/16-rd-irc
16:03:54 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world
16:03:55 <Zakim> Shawn should now be muted
16:03:56 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be 7394
16:03:57 <trackbot> Meeting: Research and Development Working Group Teleconference
16:03:57 <trackbot> Date: 16 February 2012
16:03:58 <Zakim> agendum 5, Next Topics Ordering, closed
16:03:59 <sharper> Chair: Harper_Simon
16:03:59 <Zakim> I see 2 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
16:03:59 <sharper> Agenda+ Welcome & Logistics (Regrets, Agenda Requests, Comments)
16:03:59 <sharper> Agenda+ Review of W3C Note 1!
16:03:59 <sharper> Agenda+ Any Other Business
16:04:01 <Zakim> 6. Mobile Discussion re Topics and Call for Paper [from sharper]
16:04:09 <Zakim> agendum 5, Next Topics Ordering, dropped
16:04:17 <sharper> zakim, save agenda
16:04:29 <Zakim> agendum 6, Mobile Discussion re Topics and Call for Paper, dropped
16:04:32 <Zakim> agendum 7, Any Other Business, dropped
16:04:34 <Zakim> +yeliz; got it
16:04:36 <Zakim> Peter should no longer be muted
16:04:41 <giorgio> shadi can you hear me?
16:05:02 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see WAI_RDWG()11:00AM scheduled to start 3 minutes ago
16:05:20 <Zakim> ok, sharper, the agenda has been written to http://www.w3.org/2012/02/16-rd-agenda.rdf
16:05:22 <yeliz> zakim, mute me
16:05:24 <sharper> sorry, i'll be delayed
16:05:34 <Peter> zakim, mute me
16:05:35 <markel> markel has joined #rd
16:05:35 <yeliz> zakim, mute me
16:05:47 <shadi> zakim, who is on the phone?
16:06:01 <sharper> zakim, agenda?
16:06:11 <Zakim> sorry, yeliz, I don't know what conference this is
16:06:24 <Zakim> sorry, Peter, I don't know what conference this is
16:06:25 <Peter> awwww
16:06:30 <Zakim> sorry, yeliz, I don't know what conference this is
16:06:41 <giorgio> w3c working groups are good for babies. We need more!
16:06:42 <Zakim> I notice WAI_RDWG()11:00AM has restarted
16:06:44 <Zakim> On the phone I see ??P48, Peter, Shadi, Shawn (muted), [IPcaller], ??P10
16:07:02 <markel> Hi there, markel here
16:07:06 <Zakim> I see 3 items remaining on the agenda:
16:07:07 <Zakim> 8. Welcome & Logistics (Regrets, Agenda Requests, Comments) [from sharper]
16:07:09 <Peter> hi Markel
16:07:09 <Zakim> 9. Review of W3C Note 1! [from sharper]
16:07:12 <Zakim> 10. Any Other Business [from sharper]
16:07:28 <sharper> zakim, take up item 9
16:07:30 <shadi> zakim, ??p10 is Markel
16:07:36 <yeliz> zakim, ??P48 is yeliz
16:07:39 <Zakim> +??P3
16:07:50 <yeliz> zakim, mute me
16:07:50 <shadi> zakim, ipcaller is Giorgio
16:08:05 <shadi> zakim, who is on the phone?
16:08:25 <Zakim> agendum 9. "Review of W3C Note 1!" taken up [from sharper]
16:08:26 <Peter> +1 :)
16:08:27 <Zakim> +Markel; got it
16:08:39 <Zakim> +yeliz; got it
16:08:45 <Zakim> yeliz should now be muted
16:08:50 <Zakim> +Giorgio; got it
16:09:01 <Zakim> On the phone I see yeliz (muted), Peter, Shadi, Shawn (muted), Giorgio, Markel, ??P3
16:09:25 <christos> zakim, ack me
16:10:06 <Zakim> I see no one on the speaker queue
16:10:17 <yeliz> Ohh really
16:10:18 <christos> do you hear me?
16:10:26 <Peter> Yeliz yes
16:10:38 <christos> zakim, ack me
16:10:39 <Zakim> I see no one on the speaker queue
16:10:43 <christos> I was muted
16:10:53 <shadi> zakim, yeliz is really christos
16:10:53 <Zakim> +christos; got it
16:10:57 <christos> I was P51
16:11:00 <shadi> zakim, ??p3 is yeliz
16:11:00 <Zakim> +yeliz; got it
16:11:09 <shadi> zakim, mute yeliz
16:11:09 <Zakim> yeliz should now be muted
16:12:15 <Peter> re-join? (have you tried turning it off and on again? :)
16:12:36 <christos> zakim, ack me
16:12:36 <Zakim> unmuting christos
16:12:36 <Zakim> I see no one on the speaker queue
16:12:45 <yeliz> OK, I think I managed it via Skype
16:12:52 <shawn> to mute: 61# -- unmute: 60#
16:13:00 <shadi> zakim, yeliz is really yeliz2
16:13:00 <Zakim> +yeliz2; got it
16:13:14 <shadi> zakim, giorgio is really Yeliz
16:13:14 <Zakim> +Yeliz; got it
16:13:23 <shadi> zakim, yeliz2 is really Yeliz
16:13:23 <Zakim> +Yeliz; got it
16:13:44 <shadi> scribe: Giorgio
16:13:53 <sharper> zakim,code?
16:13:53 <Zakim> the conference code is 7394 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), sharper
16:14:04 <Zakim> +??P14
16:14:09 <sharper> zakim, ??P14 is sharper
16:14:11 <Zakim> +sharper; got it
16:14:20 <christos> zakim, mute me
16:14:20 <Zakim> christos should now be muted
16:14:36 <shadi> zakim, mute me
16:14:36 <Zakim> Shadi should now be muted
16:14:48 <shadi> agenda?
16:14:59 <shadi> zakim close agendum 8
16:15:01 <Peter> yup
16:15:04 <christos> I did
16:15:04 <shadi> zakim, close agendum 8
16:15:04 <Zakim> agendum 8, Welcome & Logistics (Regrets, Agenda Requests, Comments), closed
16:15:06 <Zakim> I see 2 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
16:15:08 <Zakim> 9. Review of W3C Note 1! [from sharper]
16:15:23 <giorgio> sh wants to discuss the timeline
16:15:23 <christos> yes...
16:15:24 <shadi> Topic: Timeline
16:15:28 <shadi> ack me
16:15:39 <Peter> Zakim, unmute me
16:15:39 <Zakim> Peter was not muted, Peter
16:15:58 <shadi> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-wai-rd/2012Feb/0011.html
16:16:17 <markel> I'm fine with the timeline
16:16:25 <giorgio> everybody agrees with proposed timeline
16:16:33 <shadi> Topic: Pre-Call
16:17:05 <giorgio> SH: wants to discuss the topics in the wiki, next week
16:17:27 <giorgio> SH: and make a PRE CFP public, Peter agrees
16:17:32 <Peter> Pre call for mobile topic: http://www.w3.org/WAI/RD/wiki/Mobile_Pre_CFP
16:17:43 <Peter> Zakim, mute me
16:17:45 <Zakim> Peter should now be muted
16:17:57 <sharper> Action: peter to update wiki sub topics for pre call discussion http://www.w3.org/WAI/RD/wiki/Mobile_Pre_CFP
16:17:57 <trackbot> Created ACTION-11 - Update wiki sub topics for pre call discussion http://www.w3.org/WAI/RD/wiki/Mobile_Pre_CFP [on Peter Thiessen - due 2012-02-23].
16:18:01 <Peter> Should say (DRAFT!) for pre call :)
16:18:43 <shadi> zakim, take up agendum 9
16:18:43 <Zakim> agendum 9. "Review of W3C Note 1!" taken up [from sharper]
16:19:08 <shadi> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-wai-rd/2012Feb/0002.html
16:19:15 <giorgio> SH: intends to go through the research note and to decide for each paragraph if it is ok or not so that editors can change 
16:20:00 <shadi> ack me
16:20:11 <giorgio> SH: whose job is to convert odt into html?
16:20:54 <giorgio> SZ: usually editors do it. SZ volunteers to take s input a simple html and make it suitable forthe w3c publication rules.
16:20:59 <giorgio> thank you Shadi!
16:21:58 <giorgio> SH: let's start.
16:22:20 <Peter> +1
16:22:27 <christos> +1
16:22:28 <yeliz> +1
16:22:32 <giorgio> SH: parag. 1 is ok
16:22:35 <sharper> +1
16:22:54 <markel> got it Shadi
16:22:54 <shadi> +1 given the acronyms will be marked up
16:23:30 <Peter> +1
16:23:32 <shawn> request: "•	The number of Level A success criteria violations." -> "•	The number of Level A and AA success criteria violations."
16:23:32 <sharper> +1
16:23:36 <christos> +1
16:24:06 <shadi> +1
16:24:23 <Peter> +1
16:24:26 <sharper> +1
16:24:26 <shadi> [[In order to measure more abstract qualities,...]]
16:24:32 <christos> +1
16:24:45 <shawn> ack me
16:24:46 <shadi> ack me
16:24:46 <giorgio> I don't understand Shawn comment
16:24:57 <giorgio> ok
16:25:07 <shawn> zakim, mute me
16:25:07 <Zakim> Shawn should now be muted
16:25:17 <shadi> [[As a result of the computation of accessibility metrics,...]]
16:25:33 <sharper> +1
16:25:34 <Peter> +1
16:25:39 <christos> +1
16:25:51 <markel> yes
16:25:54 <giorgio> yes, refernces
16:25:57 <giorgio> will be linked
16:26:06 <shadi> [[Web accessibility can be viewed and defined in different ways...]]
16:26:22 <sharper> +1
16:26:24 <Peter> +1
16:26:26 <christos> +1
16:26:36 <yeliz> +1
16:26:47 <markel> q+
16:26:52 <shadi> [[Other metrics can be defined if one assumes that accessibility...]]
16:27:29 <shawn> ack m
16:27:35 <giorgio> SH: thinks the paragraph is a bit lost
16:27:43 <giorgio> +q
16:27:44 <markel> unmute markel
16:27:53 <shawn> zakim, unmute markel
16:27:53 <Zakim> Markel was not muted, shawn
16:28:14 <markel> I cannot be heard
16:28:20 <Peter> a null pointer exception :)
16:28:22 <shawn> zakim, who is muted?
16:28:23 <Zakim> I see christos, Peter, Shawn, Yeliz.a muted
16:29:19 <shadi> q+ to say keep where it is and reference "section 508"
16:29:28 <shadi> ack giorgio
16:29:41 <Peter> might be helpful for people who only skim the intro and conclusion
16:30:07 <giorgio> GB: doesn't know where else to put those defs
16:30:30 <giorgio> SH: suggsts to put them in the intro.
16:30:32 <Peter> (agrees with simon)
16:30:38 <giorgio> q+
16:30:42 <shadi> ack me
16:30:42 <Zakim> shadi, you wanted to say keep where it is and reference "section 508"
16:30:46 <sharper> ack ashadi
16:30:50 <sharper> ack shadi
16:31:11 <giorgio> SZ: does not see the problem
16:31:48 <giorgio> SZ: add a reference to S508
16:32:03 <Zakim> -Yeliz.a
16:32:24 <markel> ok so I had Yeliz's p number
16:32:29 <yeliz> :-s
16:32:39 <yeliz> I think Zakim is very confused today!
16:32:55 <Zakim> +??P24
16:33:03 <giorgio> q+
16:33:13 <markel> it's me
16:33:27 <shawn> zakim, ??P24 is Markel
16:33:27 <Zakim> +Markel; got it
16:33:46 <markel> thanks shawn
16:33:46 <Peter> :)
16:34:38 <sharper> ack gio
16:34:40 <giorgio> yes shadi, I understand it. I daid it wrong!
16:34:47 <giorgio> I said it wrong.
16:34:56 <markel> +1
16:34:57 <giorgio> +1
16:34:57 <shadi> +1
16:34:58 <christos> +1
16:34:59 <yeliz> +1
16:35:05 <markel> lol
16:35:05 <Peter> lol
16:35:07 <shawn> lol
16:35:17 <shadi> [[Most of the existing metrics - see a review in...]]
16:35:20 <christos> +1
16:35:24 <sharper> +1
16:35:25 <Peter> +1
16:35:28 <yeliz> +1
16:35:28 <shadi> +1
16:35:45 <shadi> [[The error-rate of these estimations...]]
16:35:48 <sharper> +1
16:35:51 <Peter> +!
16:35:58 <christos> +1
16:36:00 <Peter> +1 (sorry zakim)
16:36:06 <shadi> +1
16:36:10 <yeliz> +1
16:36:18 <shadi> [[A benchmarking survey on automatic conformance metrics...]]
16:36:25 <sharper> +1
16:36:27 <Peter> +1
16:36:28 <christos> +1
16:36:29 <shawn> q+
16:36:35 <sharper> ack sh
16:36:35 <shawn> ack me
16:36:38 <shadi> +1
16:36:58 <giorgio> Shawn: AIR is not a metric
16:37:00 <giorgio> q+
16:37:11 <sharper> ack g
16:38:12 <shawn> suggest: "an example is [AIR]." -> "an example is the evaluation done with [AIR]." or such
16:38:41 <shawn> zakim, mute me
16:38:41 <Zakim> Shawn should now be muted
16:38:43 <shadi> [[1.2 The Benefits of Using Metrics]]
16:38:51 <giorgio> shawn suggsts a rewording.
16:39:06 <shadi> q+
16:39:09 <Peter> +1
16:39:46 <Peter> good point Shadi 
16:39:46 <giorgio> SZ: does not like capitalizing in the paragraph. GB agrees with SZ
16:39:49 <shawn> ack s
16:40:15 <markel> :-)
16:40:18 <yeliz> I agree as well
16:40:23 <shawn> lower case Web Engineering & Retrieval
16:40:23 <shadi> [[2. A Framework for Quality of Accessibility Metrics]]
16:40:29 <sharper> +1
16:40:31 <Peter> +1
16:40:38 <christos> +1
16:40:49 <shadi> [[2.1 Validity]]
16:41:03 <shadi> [[This attribute is related to the extent...]]
16:41:04 <Peter> :)
16:41:06 <yeliz> +1
16:41:07 <sharper> +1
16:41:15 <yeliz> :)
16:41:17 <Peter> (I know this is not good!)
16:41:18 <giorgio> that's good, Simon, that there are too few pbms.
16:41:21 <christos> +1
16:41:44 <shadi> [[Validity is by far the most important quality...]]
16:41:50 <sharper> +1
16:41:58 <Peter> +1
16:42:07 <shadi> [[2.2 Reliability]]
16:42:19 <sharper> +1
16:42:22 <shadi> [[This attribute is related to the reproducibility...]]
16:42:28 <Peter> +1
16:42:55 <shadi> [[Unreliable metrics are not good...]]
16:43:48 <christos> +1
16:43:53 <shadi> [[It is worth noting that one of the aims of this research note...]]
16:43:55 <Peter> +1
16:44:02 <sharper> +1
16:44:23 <shadi> [[2.3 Sensitivity]]
16:44:23 <giorgio> SH: comment on sensitivity 2.3
16:44:33 <shawn> editorial: "webpages" -> "web pages"
16:45:11 <giorgio> Shawn: also websites -> web sites?
16:45:29 <shawn> websites one word :-)
16:45:32 <yeliz> +1
16:45:40 <Peter> +1
16:45:50 <shadi> [[2.4 Adequacy]]
16:45:58 <yeliz> +1
16:45:58 <christos> +1
16:46:02 <Peter> +1
16:46:26 <markel> +1
16:46:34 <giorgio> SH: suggests "like" --> such as
16:46:45 <shadi> [[2.5 Complexity]]
16:47:09 <yeliz> +1
16:47:25 <giorgio> SZ: on 2.5.
16:48:02 <giorgio> SZ: should be expanded on other notions of complexity, like number of judges or conflict resolution process.
16:48:03 <markel> I agree with SAZ that complexity could be extended
16:48:05 <giorgio> q+
16:48:10 <sharper> ach g
16:48:15 <sharper> ack g
16:48:52 <markel> q+
16:49:01 <yeliz> I think that would be good
16:49:47 <shadi> ack markel
16:50:00 <giorgio> MV: agrees with SZ. notes that this notion of complexity (computational) can be defined in a better way; the other one is more fuzzy.
16:50:19 <giorgio> q+
16:50:45 <sharper> ack g
16:50:48 <shadi> ack g
16:52:15 <giorgio> GB: is worried that we could go into too refined definitions of complexity while then being unable to refer to them.
16:52:40 <giorgio> I agree with Shadi about the observatory.
16:52:44 <giorgio> q+
16:52:51 <sharper> ack g
16:54:40 <giorgio> SZ: says that a w3c draft is asking on input and feedback from readers; we (editors) should be ready for it.
16:54:57 <shawn> q+
16:55:04 <shawn> q-
16:56:10 <giorgio> q+
16:56:26 <yeliz> I think it's important that it's highlighted
16:56:59 <markel> I like SAZ's suggestion
16:57:19 <giorgio> Z: says that theEU is warried that if we say there are no good metrics then accessibility is worthless.
16:57:30 <christos> good bye
16:57:31 <markel> markel has left #rd
16:57:31 <Zakim> -Yeliz
16:57:32 <Zakim> -Shawn
16:57:32 <Zakim> -Markel
16:57:34 <Zakim> -sharper
16:57:34 <Peter> bye
16:57:36 <Zakim> -Shadi
16:57:37 <sharper> bye
16:57:40 <Zakim> -Markel.a
16:57:41 <Zakim> -christos
16:57:42 <Zakim> WAI_RDWG()11:00AM has ended
16:57:42 <Zakim> Attendees were christos, Peter, Shadi, Shawn, Markel, Yeliz, sharper
16:57:55 <sharper> are you OK to wrap up the minutes shadi?
16:58:45 <sharper> sharper has left #rd
16:59:02 <shadi> yes, i will wrap up and send out
17:01:02 <shadi> trackbot, end meeting
17:01:02 <trackbot> Zakim, list attendees
17:01:02 <Zakim> sorry, trackbot, I don't know what conference this is
17:01:10 <trackbot> RRSAgent, please draft minutes
17:01:10 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/02/16-rd-minutes.html trackbot
17:01:11 <trackbot> RRSAgent, bye
17:01:11 <RRSAgent> I see 1 open action item saved in http://www.w3.org/2012/02/16-rd-actions.rdf :
17:01:11 <RRSAgent> ACTION: peter to update wiki sub topics for pre call discussion http://www.w3.org/WAI/RD/wiki/Mobile_Pre_CFP [1]
17:01:11 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2012/02/16-rd-irc#T16-17-57