15:56:04 RRSAgent has joined #html-a11y
15:56:04 logging to http://www.w3.org/2012/02/16-html-a11y-irc
15:56:06 RRSAgent, make logs world
15:56:06 Zakim has joined #html-a11y
15:56:08 Zakim, this will be 2119
15:56:08 ok, trackbot; I see WAI_PFWG(HTML TF)11:00AM scheduled to start in 4 minutes
15:56:09 Meeting: HTML Accessibility Task Force Teleconference
15:56:09 Date: 16 February 2012
15:59:02 janina has joined #html-a11y
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15:59:21 WAI_PFWG(HTML TF)11:00AM has now started
15:59:28 +??P46
15:59:33 trackbot, start meeting
15:59:35 RRSAgent, make logs world
15:59:37 Zakim, this will be 2119
15:59:37 ok, trackbot; I see WAI_PFWG(HTML TF)11:00AM scheduled to start in 1 minute
15:59:38 Meeting: HTML Accessibility Task Force Teleconference
15:59:38 Date: 16 February 2012
16:00:06 zakim, ??P46 is Janina_Sajka
16:00:06 I already had ??P46 as ??P46, MichaelC
16:00:14 zakim, ??P46 is Janina_Sajka
16:00:14 I already had ??P46 as ??P46, MichaelC
16:01:42 Meeting: HTML-A11Y Task Force Teleconference
16:01:42 Chair: Janina_Sajka
16:01:42 agenda+ Issue-199 ARIA Attributes Processing http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/199
16:01:42 agenda+ Issue-202 Fig-Caption Word Count http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/202
16:01:42 agenda+ Issue-203 Media Element Text Description http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/203
16:01:42 agenda+ Issue-31 Reconsideration Request http://www.w3.org/html/wg/wiki/ChangeProposals/movealt
16:01:44 agenda+ Issue-30 & (now) Issue-204 Discussion
16:01:46 agenda+ F2F for the TF?
16:01:48 agenda+ Subteam Reports: Canvas; ARIA Mapping; Text
16:01:50 agenda+ Other Business
16:01:52 agenda+ Actions Review http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/track/actions/open
16:01:54 agenda+ Identify Scribe for 23 February http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/wiki/index.php?title=Scribe_List
16:01:56 agenda+ be done
16:03:52 LeonieWatson has joined #html-a11y
16:04:46 Zakim, call Mike
16:04:51 richardschwerdtfe has joined #html-a11y
16:04:56 JF has joined #html-a11y
16:04:58 regrets: Léonie_Watson, Steve_Faulkner
16:05:34 ok, MikeSmith; the call is being made
16:05:58 zakim, who is here?
16:06:08 scribe: jf
16:06:12 present: Janina_Sajka, Michael_Cooper, Paul_Cotton, Judy_Brewer, John_Foliot, Mike_Smith, Rich_Schwerdtfeger, David_MacDonald
16:06:16 scribe: JF
16:06:41 zakim, take up item 1
16:06:55 zakim, next item
16:06:57 I notice WAI_PFWG(HTML TF)11:00AM has restarted
16:07:03 On the phone I see ??P46, Cooper, [Microsoft], Judy, John_Foliot, Mike, Rich, David_MacDonald
16:07:15 zakim, ??P46 is Janina_Sajka
16:07:22 zakim, Microsoft ahs Paul_Cotton
16:07:26 zakim, Microsoft has Paul_Cotton
16:07:41 agendum 1. "Issue-199 ARIA Attributes Processing http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/199" taken up [from janina]
16:07:58 agendum 1 was just opened, MichaelC
16:08:02 On IRC I see JF, richardschwerdtfe, LeonieWatson, paulc, janina, Zakim, RRSAgent, davidb, MichaelC, Judy, [tm], MikeSmith, trackbot
16:08:10 David has joined #html-a11y
16:08:11 +Janina_Sajka; got it
16:08:12 -> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/wiki/ChangeProposals/ARIA_Processing ARIA Attribute Processing Change Proposal
16:08:15 Michael C: added a link to the Change proposal pages
16:08:17 I don't understand 'Microsoft ahs Paul_Cotton', MichaelC
16:08:20 +Paul_Cotton; got it
16:08:36 reviewed Issue 191 last thursday. due date today, feels it is ready to roll
16:09:00 JS: we usually send an email to the chairs advising of new CP
16:09:35 Is this about 191 or 199?
16:09:43 JS: may want to flag as a TF Proposal, but likely want to give people a bit of time
16:10:10 s/Issue 191/Issue 199
16:10:17 +Cynthia_Shelly
16:10:48 MC: this should be complete - there may be a small bit of editorial tweaking, but do not expect substantive changes
16:10:57 Zakim, next item
16:10:58 agendum 2. "Issue-202 Fig-Caption Word Count http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/202" taken up [from janina]
16:11:30 JS: notes that all CP's required have been filed, so we are in good shape
16:11:53 JB: plans to file a CP against Issue 202 before end of day
16:12:03 hope to revisit soon
16:12:10 Zakim, next item
16:12:10 agendum 3. "Issue-203 Media Element Text Description http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/203" taken up [from janina]
16:12:29 JS: discussed process last week on HTML WG telecon
16:13:47 notion to make Issue 203 conditional on Issue 30
16:15:24 plan is to submit at CP by Saturday, but note relationship to issue 30. Chairs will set aside until issue 30 resolved
16:15:28 Zakim, nest item
16:15:28 I don't understand 'nest item', JF
16:15:34 zakim, next item
16:15:34 agendum 4. "Issue-31 Reconsideration Request http://www.w3.org/html/wg/wiki/ChangeProposals/movealt" taken up [from janina]
16:16:14 JS: several of us have worked on this, however SF got it together and submitted by last week's deadline
16:16:32 it is undergoing a number of editorial changes, but proposes 2 things
16:17:05 1) asks for guidance in the HTML5 Draft be removed and instead point to the alt text document
16:18:11 2) notes that the guidance is language agnostic - relevant to both HTML as well as PDF, SVG, Word docs, etc., thus requests that it be moved to WCAG
16:18:12 http://www.w3.org/html/wg/wiki/ChangeProposals/movealt
16:19:13 JS: suggestion is that this group bring forward an opinion on this - notes there are some minor tweaks and editorial changes to come (spelling mistakes)
16:20:18 JS: expects that the TF would be interested in perfecting the proposal and supporting it more formally
16:23:48 (members reviewing the CP now)
16:24:08 q+
16:24:59 JB: has 1 concern, will expand on that momentarily
16:26:53 JB: we had previously discussed an approach and do not recall ever discussing this as a joint submission
16:27:53 thought the intent was that this be a deliverable managed by the WCAG WG, with input from any interested party, as some of the guidance *does* go beyond HTML
16:28:16 thus having this jointly managed by the htmlwg could be difficult
16:28:43 given that there has been some conflict in the past - this could impact on other groups
16:29:11 Q+
16:29:57 RRSAgent, make minutes
16:29:57 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/02/16-html-a11y-minutes.html MikeSmith
16:30:31 q+
16:31:09 JF: suggests that it be moved to PFWG, administered by WCAG
16:31:16 ack JF
16:31:19 ack judy
16:31:37 JB: WAI has a smooth work flow to manage who looks after what
16:32:11 so letting WCAG manage this is likely appropriate, and they have the bandwidth to do this
16:33:09 WCAG WG can coordinate input from other interested parties
16:33:27 they can also look at this in terms of normative vs advisory, etc.
16:33:44 what is key is appropriate positioning of things
16:34:09 [Dnq?
16:34:11 q?
16:34:20 so put forward a proposal as to where this should be placed, and then discuss those merits
16:35:07 JS: sounds like this proposal is finding favor, with 1 change, to remove the "Joint" management indication
16:35:35 next step to put out a 48 hr survey. Are we ready to do so?
16:37:09 q+
16:37:21 ack j
16:37:33 DM: has one concern, that the CP seems to cause some inciting some combativeness
16:38:09 JB: this is a matter of record of the bugs and rejection pattern, and the fact that the problem does still exist
16:38:35 JS: one of the basis for the request for consideration was a specific request of noting the pattern of rejections
16:40:24 DRAFT: The HTML-A11Y Task Force supports the Issue-31 reconsideration proposal at:
16:40:24 http://www.w3.org/html/wg/wiki/ChangeProposals/movealt
16:40:24 provided it is modified to propose the Alt Techniques document become a deliverable of the WCAG WG.
16:41:22 CS: sounds good
16:41:41 DM suggests "as amended"
16:41:59 JS: we have permission to amend from SF already
16:42:23 (MC making minor edits to the wiki
16:43:03 RESOLVED: The HTML-A11Y Task Force supports the Issue-31 reconsideration proposal at: http://www.w3.org/html/wg/wiki/ChangeProposals/movealt
16:43:29 PC: given that this will land in the Chairs inbox soon, suggests some feedback
16:43:43 ^ note this resolution was made on revision id 12141
16:44:43 Notes a relationship to WCAG, but this new document will not be part of WCAG, but rather a new document related to WCAG
16:45:28 cautions about the rational - quote "New version of WCAG" end quote
16:45:49 q+
16:46:22 CS: the design of WCAG is that we do not create a new document, but rather add and adjust new techniques
16:46:50 ack me
16:47:01 q+
16:47:08 MC: the argument also includes a number of documents in a suite that = WCAG, thus updating any 1 doc creates a "new" version of WCAG
16:48:06 CS: the addition of new documents to WCAG follows the pattern of "Living Spec"
16:48:41 PC: that is an important point that needs to be underscored, so that the Chairs and others are clear on WCAG evolution
16:49:37 JB": is there a way to version up the wording so that it includes the intended change, with language that clarifies the impact on WCAG
16:50:21 PC: the chairs are moving fairly swiftly on re-open requests. Likely by this friday this will be high on the review list by the chairs
16:51:03 JB: question around word-smithing
16:51:39 DM: is there value in talking about normative/non-normative
16:52:23 My proposal was that WCAG 2.0, Understanding WCAG 2.0, and Techniques for WCAG 2.0" constitute the "WCAG 2.0 Suite" and an update to any of them constitutes and "update to WCAG"
16:52:29 CS: suggest that WCAG was built to accomodate change via the techniques section (1 of 3 in the "suite") - Living Spec portion
16:52:50 JS: suggest we finish this off line, and then submit the resolution after that
16:53:31 Cynthia pointed out that publishing updates to Techniques for WCAG 2.0 is the mechanism by which WCAG 2.0 is a "living document" while still being normative
16:53:57 JS: any URIs that can be included will also strengthen the language
16:54:27 -> http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wcag-pf-html5-task-force HTML 5 Techniques for WCAG 2.0 Task Force
16:54:54 -Cynthia_Shelly
16:54:55 -> http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/Techniques/HTML5 Starter set of HTML 5 techniques for WCAG 2.0
16:55:15 DRAFT: The HTML-A11Y Task Force supports the Issue-31 reconsideration proposal at:
16:55:15 http://www.w3.org/html/wg/wiki/ChangeProposals/movealt
16:55:26 +Cynthia_Shelly
16:56:51 -Rich
16:57:55 RESOLVED: The HTML-A11Y Task Force supports the Issue-31 reconsideration proposal at: http://www.w3.org/html/wg/wiki/ChangeProposals/movealt
16:57:57 with the edits regarding WCAG discussed and minuted from today's teleconference
16:58:12 zakim; next item
16:58:19 zakim, next item
16:58:19 I see a speaker queue remaining and respectfully decline to close this agendum, JF
16:58:20 http://www.w3.org/2012/02/14-text-minutes.html
16:58:32 Q?
16:58:37 ack judy
16:58:42 zakim, next item
16:58:42 agendum 5. "Issue-30 & (now) Issue-204 Discussion" taken up [from janina]
16:59:16 JB: concern about process, and next step will be request of procedural issues
16:59:45 concerns discussion on splitting longdesc decision over some protests
16:59:52 lack of coordination
17:00:18 also puts ARIA-describedby issue ahead of Issue 30, concern about timing issue
17:00:38 also proposes a change on ARIA (work of another WG) without consultation or coordination
17:00:54 need to talk about coordination efforts
17:00:58 -[Microsoft]
17:02:26 JB: invites others to review information in the minutes from the text sub-team call
17:04:07 -Mike
17:04:19 -David_MacDonald
17:04:35 -Judy
17:04:59 zakim, bye
17:04:59 leaving. As of this point the attendees were Cooper, Judy, John_Foliot, Mike, Rich, David_MacDonald, Janina_Sajka, Paul_Cotton, Cynthia_Shelly
17:04:59 Zakim has left #html-a11y
17:05:15 RRSagent, make minutes
17:05:15 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/02/16-html-a11y-minutes.html JF
17:17:22 with edits regarding WCAG as discussed and minuted in the teleconference./leave
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