20:58:19 RRSAgent has joined #fx 20:58:19 logging to http://www.w3.org/2012/02/13-fx-irc 20:58:21 RRSAgent, make logs world 20:58:21 Zakim has joined #fx 20:58:23 Zakim, this will be 3983 20:58:23 ok, trackbot; I see GA_FXTF()4:00PM scheduled to start in 2 minutes 20:58:24 Meeting: CSS-SVG Task Force Teleconference 20:58:24 Date: 13 February 2012 20:58:50 Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-fx/2012JanMar/0091.html 20:59:09 chair: ed 21:00:18 Zakim, who's here? 21:00:18 GA_FXTF()4:00PM has not yet started, ed 21:00:19 On IRC I see RRSAgent, krit, cyril, AryehGregor, shepazu, stearns, heycam|away, ed, vhardy, plinss, krijnh, trackbot, hober, paul___irish, CSSWG_LogBot, fantasai 21:01:05 Zakim, who's here? 21:01:05 GA_FXTF()4:00PM has not yet started, krit 21:01:06 On IRC I see RRSAgent, krit, cyril, AryehGregor, shepazu, stearns, heycam|away, ed, vhardy, plinss, krijnh, trackbot, hober, paul___irish, CSSWG_LogBot, fantasai 21:01:28 Present+ ed 21:01:35 cabanier has joined #fx 21:01:46 Present+ krit 21:03:23 Present+ cyril 21:04:08 Present+ rik 21:10:59 scribe: ed 21:11:03 scribeNick: ed 21:11:17 topic: transforms issues 21:11:54 dirk: can svg parsing do parsing with both svg and css parsing rules, without or with units? could svg change here? 21:12:24 ... would like to modify the svg parser to accept css syntax for transforms, so e.g translate(20px, 20px) would be supported 21:12:30 rik: that's a big change 21:12:46 dirk: you have to use units in css syntax anyway 21:13:00 rik: but for an svg parser not having a css parser? 21:13:34 ChrisL has joined #fx 21:13:35 dirk: that's why i'm proposing extended to allow the css syntax, but without requiring a full css parser 21:13:48 zakim, code? 21:13:48 the conference code is 3983 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), ChrisL 21:13:54 ... if we change transform to be a presentation attribute it's still a property 21:14:53 all properties are presentation attribues, and the reverse is also true 21:15:42 ed: the current presentation attributes are still parsed as defined in svg, but we've discussed allowing css syntax (and parsing) in svg attributes 21:16:42 presentation attributes differences from style sheets: units, scienetific notation, case sensitivity 21:16:58 dirk: i also wanted to suggest aryeh gregor as an editor for the merged transforms spec 21:17:12 cl: is he member of css or svg wg? 21:17:18 dirk: he's a member of csswg 21:18:28 https://www.w3.org/2000/09/dbwg/details?group=32061&public=1 21:19:54 cyril has joined #fx 21:19:54 sorry, misread. yes, he is 21:20:43 rrsagent, pointer 21:20:43 See http://www.w3.org/2012/02/13-fx-irc#T21-20-43 21:21:16 ACTION: dirk to contact all the editors of http://dev.w3.org/csswg/css3-transforms/ to see if they agree to have Aryeh Gregor as an editor too, and send a mail to public-fx about it 21:21:16 Created ACTION-69 - Contact all the editors of http://dev.w3.org/csswg/css3-transforms/ to see if they agree to have Aryeh Gregor as an editor too, and send a mail to public-fx about it [on Dirk Schulze - due 2012-02-20]. 21:23:10 http://www.w3.org/Graphics/fx/wiki/Merged_Transforms#Parser_issues 21:23:23 minutes are here (scroll down to Transforms ) 21:23:26 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2012Feb/0550.html 21:24:16 quote "David: I don't want 2d to wait on SVG stuff. 21:24:16 David: 2d is not going to change. " 21:25:20 CL: smfr claimed 2d transforms is css only, not fx 21:26:01 ... pointed out that svg had had transforms much longer, but people didn't want to slow down 21:26:25 rik: the 2d spec, not the combined one? 21:26:39 cl: also concerns about where bugs were tracked 21:26:56 ... csswg wants to push ahead with 2d transforms 21:27:12 ... perhaps driven by the prefix discussions 21:27:42 CC: canon was interested in having 3d transforms in svg 21:27:57 ... we were happy with it being a combined spec 21:28:14 ... but don't want it to be css only 21:28:19 ... it needs to work in svg 21:28:21 I agree with Cyril 21:28:43 and its sad there is no-one (except for myself) from CSS WG here 21:30:34 dirk: currently working on the merged transforms spec, we're mostly clear on transform-origin e.g 21:32:02 ... there's no conclusion from the minutes CL pasted that says the csswg will continue with the 2d transforms independently 21:32:20 CL: the minutes are a bit partial, vincent argued that we should work together 21:32:35 ... and there are issues with the spec still 21:32:38 cabanier has joined #fx 21:32:49 ... some issues joint between 2d and 3d 21:33:07 ... we should discuss this in Hamburg 21:34:03 I hope we can move forward on a joint spec at the Hamburg meeting, since we are colocated SVG and CSS at that f2f 21:34:08 CC: from the minutes, david says "I don't want to wait on 2d stuff", and svg has had transforms for 10-12 years, don't understand why css would have to wait for svg 21:34:30 also unminutes was Simon querying if there were SVG tests for 2D transforms 21:34:52 ... would be fine with transform with only 2d that is compatible with svg, and later one spec with 3d with support for svg as well 21:34:56 quite a bit of what I said was unminuted, it seems 21:35:47 CL: would be good to have proposed resolutions for the Hamburg meeting 21:36:06 dirk: mayube the 3d stuff won't be ready, but 2d should be possible 21:36:16 I agree, Simon is working hard on the 3d stuff 21:36:22 ... pretty sure we'll have a working draft to hamburg, 3d included 21:36:43 CC: simon says he was createing tests for 3d transforms 21:37:32 CL: some concerns from simon in the CSSWG meeting about testing transforms, but svg has had this tested for a long time 21:37:49 ... should be possible to just take tests from svg 21:38:08 rik: seems many things went unminuted in the csswg meeting 21:40:34 dirk: can we resolve that svg will use css-like parsing rules? 21:40:43 CL: what would it say exactly? 21:41:47 ed: we can resolve things on the public-fx mailinglist, if enough people respond to the thread 21:42:10 http://pastebin.com/HWC7mq6y 21:42:35 dirk: only thing missing is that svg supports scientific notation for numbers 21:44:10 ed: ok, let's try and resolve this on the list 21:44:29 Topic: issue-66 21:45:37 http://dev.w3.org/SVG/proposals/css-animation/animation-proposal.html 21:46:32 ed: previous discussions indicated that this should be made a spec module on top of svg 1.1, and perhaps later included in svg2 21:46:44 dirk: i could be co-editor 21:46:57 cl: we need someone from MS to take this on 21:47:13 it would be good to get a co-editor from microsoft, or more involvement from them 21:47:16 ed: i could also co-edit 21:49:14 ... we need more feedback from the csswg, i did send this to www-style, but we might need to get this on the wg's agenda too 21:49:43 present+ shepazu 21:51:04 ACTION: ed to contact Microsoft about ISSUE-66, and editorship, and to mail the csswg chairs about the syntax issues for svgattrs->cssprops 21:51:05 Created ACTION-70 - Contact Microsoft about ISSUE-66, and editorship, and to mail the csswg chairs about the syntax issues for svgattrs->cssprops [on Erik Dahlström - due 2012-02-20]. 21:56:12 trackbot, end telcon 21:56:12 Zakim, list attendees 21:56:12 sorry, trackbot, I don't know what conference this is 21:56:20 RRSAgent, please draft minutes 21:56:20 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/02/13-fx-minutes.html trackbot 21:56:21 RRSAgent, bye 21:56:21 I see 2 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2012/02/13-fx-actions.rdf : 21:56:21 ACTION: dirk to contact all the editors of http://dev.w3.org/csswg/css3-transforms/ to see if they agree to have Aryeh Gregor as an editor too, and send a mail to public-fx about it [1] 21:56:21 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2012/02/13-fx-irc#T21-21-16 21:56:21 ACTION: ed to contact Microsoft about ISSUE-66, and editorship, and to mail the csswg chairs about the syntax issues for svgattrs->cssprops [2] 21:56:21 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2012/02/13-fx-irc#T21-51-04