IRC log of fx on 2012-02-13

Timestamps are in UTC.

20:58:19 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #fx
20:58:19 [RRSAgent]
logging to http://www.w3.org/2012/02/13-fx-irc
20:58:21 [trackbot]
RRSAgent, make logs world
20:58:21 [Zakim]
Zakim has joined #fx
20:58:23 [trackbot]
Zakim, this will be 3983
20:58:23 [Zakim]
ok, trackbot; I see GA_FXTF()4:00PM scheduled to start in 2 minutes
20:58:24 [trackbot]
Meeting: CSS-SVG Task Force Teleconference
20:58:24 [trackbot]
Date: 13 February 2012
20:58:50 [ed]
Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-fx/2012JanMar/0091.html
20:59:09 [ed]
chair: ed
21:00:18 [ed]
Zakim, who's here?
21:00:18 [Zakim]
GA_FXTF()4:00PM has not yet started, ed
21:00:19 [Zakim]
On IRC I see RRSAgent, krit, cyril, AryehGregor, shepazu, stearns, heycam|away, ed, vhardy, plinss, krijnh, trackbot, hober, paul___irish, CSSWG_LogBot, fantasai
21:01:05 [krit]
Zakim, who's here?
21:01:05 [Zakim]
GA_FXTF()4:00PM has not yet started, krit
21:01:06 [Zakim]
On IRC I see RRSAgent, krit, cyril, AryehGregor, shepazu, stearns, heycam|away, ed, vhardy, plinss, krijnh, trackbot, hober, paul___irish, CSSWG_LogBot, fantasai
21:01:28 [ed]
Present+ ed
21:01:35 [cabanier]
cabanier has joined #fx
21:01:46 [krit]
Present+ krit
21:03:23 [ed]
Present+ cyril
21:04:08 [ed]
Present+ rik
21:10:59 [ed]
scribe: ed
21:11:03 [ed]
scribeNick: ed
21:11:17 [ed]
topic: transforms issues
21:11:54 [ed]
dirk: can svg parsing do parsing with both svg and css parsing rules, without or with units? could svg change here?
21:12:24 [ed]
... would like to modify the svg parser to accept css syntax for transforms, so e.g translate(20px, 20px) would be supported
21:12:30 [ed]
rik: that's a big change
21:12:46 [ed]
dirk: you have to use units in css syntax anyway
21:13:00 [ed]
rik: but for an svg parser not having a css parser?
21:13:34 [ChrisL]
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21:13:35 [ed]
dirk: that's why i'm proposing extended to allow the css syntax, but without requiring a full css parser
21:13:48 [ChrisL]
zakim, code?
21:13:48 [Zakim]
the conference code is 3983 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), ChrisL
21:13:54 [ed]
... if we change transform to be a presentation attribute it's still a property
21:14:53 [ChrisL]
all properties are presentation attribues, and the reverse is also true
21:15:42 [ed]
ed: the current presentation attributes are still parsed as defined in svg, but we've discussed allowing css syntax (and parsing) in svg attributes
21:16:42 [ChrisL]
presentation attributes differences from style sheets: units, scienetific notation, case sensitivity
21:16:58 [ed]
dirk: i also wanted to suggest aryeh gregor as an editor for the merged transforms spec
21:17:12 [ed]
cl: is he member of css or svg wg?
21:17:18 [ed]
dirk: he's a member of csswg
21:18:28 [ChrisL]
https://www.w3.org/2000/09/dbwg/details?group=32061&public=1
21:19:54 [cyril]
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21:19:54 [ChrisL]
sorry, misread. yes, he is
21:20:43 [cyril]
rrsagent, pointer
21:20:43 [RRSAgent]
See http://www.w3.org/2012/02/13-fx-irc#T21-20-43
21:21:16 [ed]
ACTION: dirk to contact all the editors of http://dev.w3.org/csswg/css3-transforms/ to see if they agree to have Aryeh Gregor as an editor too, and send a mail to public-fx about it
21:21:16 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-69 - Contact all the editors of http://dev.w3.org/csswg/css3-transforms/ to see if they agree to have Aryeh Gregor as an editor too, and send a mail to public-fx about it [on Dirk Schulze - due 2012-02-20].
21:23:10 [krit]
http://www.w3.org/Graphics/fx/wiki/Merged_Transforms#Parser_issues
21:23:23 [ChrisL]
minutes are here (scroll down to Transforms )
21:23:26 [ChrisL]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2012Feb/0550.html
21:24:16 [ChrisL]
quote "David: I don't want 2d to wait on SVG stuff.
21:24:16 [ChrisL]
David: 2d is not going to change. "
21:25:20 [ed]
CL: smfr claimed 2d transforms is css only, not fx
21:26:01 [ed]
... pointed out that svg had had transforms much longer, but people didn't want to slow down
21:26:25 [ed]
rik: the 2d spec, not the combined one?
21:26:39 [ed]
cl: also concerns about where bugs were tracked
21:26:56 [ed]
... csswg wants to push ahead with 2d transforms
21:27:12 [ed]
... perhaps driven by the prefix discussions
21:27:42 [ed]
CC: canon was interested in having 3d transforms in svg
21:27:57 [ed]
... we were happy with it being a combined spec
21:28:14 [ed]
... but don't want it to be css only
21:28:19 [ed]
... it needs to work in svg
21:28:21 [ChrisL]
I agree with Cyril
21:28:43 [ChrisL]
and its sad there is no-one (except for myself) from CSS WG here
21:30:34 [ed]
dirk: currently working on the merged transforms spec, we're mostly clear on transform-origin e.g
21:32:02 [ed]
... there's no conclusion from the minutes CL pasted that says the csswg will continue with the 2d transforms independently
21:32:20 [ed]
CL: the minutes are a bit partial, vincent argued that we should work together
21:32:35 [ed]
... and there are issues with the spec still
21:32:38 [cabanier]
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21:32:49 [ed]
... some issues joint between 2d and 3d
21:33:07 [ed]
... we should discuss this in Hamburg
21:34:03 [ChrisL]
I hope we can move forward on a joint spec at the Hamburg meeting, since we are colocated SVG and CSS at that f2f
21:34:08 [ed]
CC: from the minutes, david says "I don't want to wait on 2d stuff", and svg has had transforms for 10-12 years, don't understand why css would have to wait for svg
21:34:30 [ChrisL]
also unminutes was Simon querying if there were SVG tests for 2D transforms
21:34:52 [ed]
... would be fine with transform with only 2d that is compatible with svg, and later one spec with 3d with support for svg as well
21:34:56 [ChrisL]
quite a bit of what I said was unminuted, it seems
21:35:47 [ed]
CL: would be good to have proposed resolutions for the Hamburg meeting
21:36:06 [ed]
dirk: mayube the 3d stuff won't be ready, but 2d should be possible
21:36:16 [ChrisL]
I agree, Simon is working hard on the 3d stuff
21:36:22 [ed]
... pretty sure we'll have a working draft to hamburg, 3d included
21:36:43 [ed]
CC: simon says he was createing tests for 3d transforms
21:37:32 [ed]
CL: some concerns from simon in the CSSWG meeting about testing transforms, but svg has had this tested for a long time
21:37:49 [ed]
... should be possible to just take tests from svg
21:38:08 [ed]
rik: seems many things went unminuted in the csswg meeting
21:40:34 [ed]
dirk: can we resolve that svg will use css-like parsing rules?
21:40:43 [ed]
CL: what would it say exactly?
21:41:47 [ed]
ed: we can resolve things on the public-fx mailinglist, if enough people respond to the thread
21:42:10 [krit]
http://pastebin.com/HWC7mq6y
21:42:35 [ed]
dirk: only thing missing is that svg supports scientific notation for numbers
21:44:10 [ed]
ed: ok, let's try and resolve this on the list
21:44:29 [ed]
Topic: issue-66
21:45:37 [ed]
http://dev.w3.org/SVG/proposals/css-animation/animation-proposal.html
21:46:32 [ed]
ed: previous discussions indicated that this should be made a spec module on top of svg 1.1, and perhaps later included in svg2
21:46:44 [ed]
dirk: i could be co-editor
21:46:57 [ed]
cl: we need someone from MS to take this on
21:47:13 [ChrisL]
it would be good to get a co-editor from microsoft, or more involvement from them
21:47:16 [ed]
ed: i could also co-edit
21:49:14 [ed]
... we need more feedback from the csswg, i did send this to www-style, but we might need to get this on the wg's agenda too
21:49:43 [ed]
present+ shepazu
21:51:04 [ed]
ACTION: ed to contact Microsoft about ISSUE-66, and editorship, and to mail the csswg chairs about the syntax issues for svgattrs->cssprops
21:51:05 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-70 - Contact Microsoft about ISSUE-66, and editorship, and to mail the csswg chairs about the syntax issues for svgattrs->cssprops [on Erik Dahlström - due 2012-02-20].
21:56:12 [ed]
trackbot, end telcon
21:56:12 [trackbot]
Zakim, list attendees
21:56:12 [Zakim]
sorry, trackbot, I don't know what conference this is
21:56:20 [trackbot]
RRSAgent, please draft minutes
21:56:20 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/02/13-fx-minutes.html trackbot
21:56:21 [trackbot]
RRSAgent, bye
21:56:21 [RRSAgent]
I see 2 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2012/02/13-fx-actions.rdf :
21:56:21 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: dirk to contact all the editors of http://dev.w3.org/csswg/css3-transforms/ to see if they agree to have Aryeh Gregor as an editor too, and send a mail to public-fx about it [1]
21:56:21 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2012/02/13-fx-irc#T21-21-16
21:56:21 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: ed to contact Microsoft about ISSUE-66, and editorship, and to mail the csswg chairs about the syntax issues for svgattrs->cssprops [2]
21:56:21 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2012/02/13-fx-irc#T21-51-04