15:42:12 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #prov
15:42:12 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2012/02/09-prov-irc
15:42:14 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world
15:42:14 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #prov
15:42:16 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be 
15:42:16 <Zakim> I don't understand 'this will be', trackbot
15:42:17 <trackbot> Meeting: Provenance Working Group Teleconference
15:42:17 <trackbot> Date: 09 February 2012
15:42:18 <Luc> Zakim, this will be PROV 
15:42:18 <Zakim> ok, Luc; I see SW_(PROV)11:00AM scheduled to start in 18 minutes
15:42:31 <Luc> Agenda: http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/Meetings:Telecon2012.02.09
15:42:34 <Luc> Chair: Luc Moreau
15:42:47 <Luc> rrsagent, make logs public 
15:42:51 <Luc> zakim, who is here? 
15:42:51 <Zakim> SW_(PROV)11:00AM has not yet started, Luc
15:42:51 <Zakim> On IRC I see RRSAgent, Luc, MacTed, Stian, trackbot, sandro
15:54:21 <Luc> q?
15:55:24 <Luc> q?
15:57:45 <Curt> Curt has joined #prov
15:58:17 <Zakim> SW_(PROV)11:00AM has now started
15:58:24 <Zakim> +Curt_Tilmes
15:59:17 <Zakim> + +44.238.059.aaaa
15:59:19 <satya> satya has joined #prov
15:59:27 <tlebo> tlebo has joined #prov
15:59:35 <Luc> zakim, +44.238.059.aaaa is me
15:59:44 <Zakim> +Luc; got it
15:59:50 <davidschaengold> davidschaengold has joined #prov
16:00:25 <Zakim> + +1.315.330.aabb
16:00:28 <Zakim> +Satya_Sahoo
16:00:30 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
16:00:32 <smiles> smiles has joined #prov
16:00:32 <tlebo> zakim, I am aabb
16:00:34 <Luc> Hi, we still need a scribe ....
16:00:39 <tlebo> I'll scribe
16:00:40 <Zakim> + +1.646.389.aacc
16:00:48 <Luc> thanks tim, everything is setup for you
16:00:51 <davidschaengold> Zakim, aacc is me
16:00:55 <tlebo> yup, thanks.
16:00:56 <Luc> scribe: Tim Lebo
16:01:00 <Zakim> +tlebo; got it
16:01:18 <Zakim> +davidschaengold; got it
16:01:21 <christine> christine has joined #prov
16:01:50 <Zakim> +[IPcaller.a]
16:02:06 <estephan> estephan has joined #prov
16:02:23 <Zakim> + +1.509.967.aadd
16:02:58 <dgarijo> dgarijo has joined #prov
16:03:15 <khalidbelhajjame> khalidbelhajjame has joined #prov
16:03:27 <jcheney> jcheney has joined #prov
16:03:46 <tlebo> topic: approve minutes
16:03:59 <tlebo> luc: paul hasn't finished the long minutes, we'll do next week.
16:04:02 <Luc> http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/track/actions/open
16:04:03 <tlebo> topic: actions
16:04:30 <tlebo> action 51
16:04:30 <trackbot> Sorry, bad ACTION syntax
16:04:32 <Luc> http://www.w3.org/blog/SW/2012/02/08/the-provenance-data-model-third-working-draft/
16:04:53 <tlebo> luc finished the blog on action 51; closed.
16:05:03 <Zakim> +??P77
16:05:13 <Zakim> +??P80
16:05:16 <tlebo> action 52 on satya - continue DM issues.
16:05:16 <trackbot> Sorry, couldn't find user - 52
16:05:17 <Zakim> +??P81
16:05:41 <tlebo> satya: can be folded into the due date next thursday.
16:05:44 <MacTed> action-52?
16:05:44 <trackbot> ACTION-52 -- Satya Sahoo to address issues in http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/Meetings:Telecon2012.01.05#prov-dm -- due 2012-01-19 -- OPEN
16:05:44 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/track/actions/52
16:05:51 <Zakim> +OpenLink_Software
16:06:00 <MacTed> Zakim, OpenLink_Software is temporarily me
16:06:02 <MacTed> Zakim, mute me
16:06:23 <tlebo> luc: luc and paolo have asked questions that satya has not answered. please respond.
16:06:44 <tlebo> luc: we will be trying to close actions much faster.
16:06:50 <Zakim> +MacTed; got it
16:06:52 <Zakim> MacTed should now be muted
16:07:12 <tlebo> satya: today or tomorrow will respond
16:07:16 <Luc> https://www.w3.org/2011/prov/track/actions/53
16:07:19 <jcheney> zakim, ??P77 is me
16:07:28 <tlebo> action 53 to Kai - bootstrapping dc best practices.
16:07:28 <trackbot> Sorry, couldn't find user - 53
16:07:39 <Zakim> +jcheney; got it
16:08:31 <tlebo> daniel: kai has been working on it, has been getting good responses from other users groups. they seem happy.
16:08:50 <tlebo> luc: will the activity be seen by prov-wg?
16:09:00 <Zakim> +[ISI]
16:09:06 <Zakim> +Sandro
16:09:07 <tlebo> daniel: mostly on the dc side, kai will come back and report.
16:09:18 <tlebo> daniel: eric is hosting a call next monday
16:09:33 <tlebo> daniel is on dc call
16:09:35 <YolandaGil> YolandaGil has joined #prov
16:09:42 <tlebo> luc: how to monitor progress?
16:09:58 <tlebo> daniel: still getting started.
16:10:20 <tlebo> luc: action is completed because activity is bootstrapped. please report back regularlly.
16:10:33 <Luc> q?
16:11:10 <Luc> https://www.w3.org/2011/prov/track/actions/54
16:11:11 <MacTed> action-54?
16:11:11 <trackbot> ACTION-54 -- Paul Groth to engage implementation task force to begin developing of a test harness around examples (from tim or others) -- due 2012-02-10 -- OPEN
16:11:11 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/track/actions/54
16:11:17 <tlebo> next action is #54 on paolo. Engaging implemenation task force for a test harness 
16:11:32 <tlebo> luc: helena or stephen?
16:11:47 <Zakim> -MacTed
16:11:52 <tlebo> s/paolo/paul/
16:12:03 <Luc> https://www.w3.org/2011/prov/track/actions/55
16:12:04 <Helena> Helena has joined #prov
16:12:26 <tlebo> next action was #55 on mike. make an owl file for next week.
16:12:31 <dgarijo> +q
16:12:58 <Luc> ack dg
16:13:10 <tlebo> daniel: khalid and daniel have made a list of terms to agree on and give rules for. (and a list of those we won't)
16:13:24 <tlebo> ( http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/ProvRDF )
16:13:25 <satya> http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/ProvRDF
16:13:49 <tlebo> luc: timing - next telecon due. on track to meet?
16:13:52 <Zakim> +??P20
16:13:52 <tlebo> daniel: yes
16:13:57 <tlebo> (+1)
16:14:00 <Luc> https://www.w3.org/2011/prov/track/actions/56
16:14:16 <tlebo> next is action 56 to james update rdf rules and align with dm.
16:14:47 <tlebo> jcheney: coupled with previous issue. using ProvRDF to keep track of DM and ont.
16:15:02 <dgarijo> I forgot to say that Tim also worked on the list initiated by James.
16:15:17 <tlebo> jcheney: daniel, khalid, satya, tim have been working around the doc.
16:15:25 <stephenc> stephenc has joined #prov
16:15:30 <tlebo> jcheney: planning to fill in early next week
16:15:35 <tlebo> q+
16:16:05 <dgarijo> tlebo: clarification about the rules James is talking about.
16:16:23 <dgarijo> jcheney: the rules in the provRDF file.
16:16:31 <khalidbelhajjame> Translation rules
16:17:02 <Luc> https://www.w3.org/2011/prov/track/actions/57
16:17:04 <dgarijo> tlebo: the plan is to have completed the left side part of the list
16:17:05 <tlebo> (anyone is welcome to help me fill in the left-hand sides from DM - this needs to be done by Friday)
16:17:30 <tlebo> luc: paq, paul, graham. #57 due end of month. we'll leave it
16:17:31 <Luc> https://www.w3.org/2011/prov/track/actions/58
16:17:37 <Luc> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-prov-wg/2012Feb/0021.html
16:17:56 <dgarijo> @tlebo: I though that that was what Khalid and I did with the lists :)
16:17:58 <tlebo> luc: action 58 to paul. he wrote summary of f2f.
16:18:07 <Luc> http://www.w3.org/blog/SW/?p=451  
16:18:09 <tlebo> @daniel, nope, as I said in email.
16:18:23 <GK_> GK_ has joined #prov
16:18:23 <tlebo> luc: closing 58
16:18:37 <GK_> Oops, sorry I'm late.  Connecting now.
16:19:01 <Luc> https://www.w3.org/2011/prov/track/actions/60
16:19:41 <tlebo> luc: 60 on luc, xml schema. he sent email to list. some responses. james' approach similar?
16:19:47 <dgarijo> @tlebo: ok.
16:19:51 <tlebo> jcheney: was using attributes, but can change to elemetns.
16:20:02 <tlebo> luc: stephen, tim is interested
16:20:07 <Zakim> +OpenLink_Software
16:20:07 <tlebo> (+1)
16:20:11 <Zakim> +??P0
16:20:13 <MacTed> Zakim, OpenLink_Software is temporarily me
16:20:13 <Zakim> +MacTed; got it
16:20:15 <MacTed> Zakim, mute me
16:20:15 <Zakim> MacTed should now be muted
16:20:29 <GK_> zakim, ??p0 is me
16:20:29 <Zakim> +GK_; got it
16:20:55 <tlebo> tim: will look through it, not sure what he'll do with it.
16:21:11 <tlebo> luc: aim for an agreement in two weeks time?
16:21:28 <satya> tlebo: yes
16:21:42 <Luc> https://www.w3.org/2011/prov/track/actions/61
16:21:55 <tlebo> luc: 61 on james update semantics to suit DM WD3
16:22:27 <tlebo> jcheney: provrdf an mappings are part of it and due ealier. so focusing on that.
16:22:30 <Luc> https://www.w3.org/2011/prov/track/actions/62
16:22:45 <tlebo> luc: 62 on luc to simplify intro do DM
16:22:55 <tlebo> luc: will report later in agenda.
16:23:17 <Luc> q?
16:23:23 <tlebo> q-
16:23:49 <zednik> zednik has joined #prov
16:24:22 <tlebo> luc: next face to face... coordinate with semweb activity.... mroe next week.
16:24:38 <Luc> q?
16:24:42 <tlebo> luc: other issues?
16:24:56 <Zakim> -Curt_Tilmes
16:25:01 <Luc> can we see this list of term?
16:25:10 <tlebo> satya: reviewing wd3, have terms to map, nothing else to report. Mike finished blog post.
16:25:20 <tlebo> satya: simple exmaple of how to use prov-o. sent update yesterday 
16:25:21 <Luc> can we see the blog post example?
16:25:26 <tlebo> (I didn't see update)
16:25:42 <tlebo> (ok)
16:25:51 <tlebo> satya: blog post coming outt
16:26:01 <dgarijo> http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/ProvRDF
16:26:03 <tlebo> http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/ProvRDF#List_of_terms_that_are_going_to_be_modeled_in_order_to_align_PROV-O_to_WD3
16:26:10 <Zakim> +Curt_Tilmes
16:26:18 <Luc> q?
16:26:35 <tlebo> q+ to note that I think a different format would be better, will try to address on email and skype.
16:26:36 <dgarijo> although that list has to be merged with Khalid's
16:26:41 <tlebo> luc: wasAssociatedWith - why not?
16:26:50 <tlebo> luc: quite important.
16:27:14 <Luc> q?
16:27:17 <Luc> ack tle
16:27:17 <Zakim> tlebo, you wanted to note that I think a different format would be better, will try to address on email and skype.
16:28:05 <tlebo> q-
16:28:26 <tlebo> luc: good to see that we can be systematic in translation.
16:28:35 <tlebo> luc: issues in DM?
16:29:27 <Zakim> +??P25
16:29:39 <satya> @GK: yes, it is a discussion board
16:29:50 <Mike> Mike has joined #prov
16:30:09 <tlebo> luc: would be good for dm and provo teams to discuss
16:30:16 <Zakim> + +1.443.708.aaee
16:30:27 <tlebo> tlebo: we can do that after the owl file and mapping page
16:30:33 <tlebo> luc: we need the HTML, too.
16:30:47 <Luc> q?
16:30:53 <jcheney> @GK: Tim's point I think is that the wiki page should be DM-centric in order to aid producing the deliverable(s)
16:30:54 <tlebo> luc: we need a doc that semweb community will look at after the primer.
16:31:20 <khalidbelhajjame> We also need to thing about the structure of the document
16:31:23 <khalidbelhajjame> think
16:31:32 <tlebo> satya: having concensus on owl file will aid HTML writing.
16:31:45 <tlebo> luc: but thought on how to structure doc before hand.
16:31:56 <tlebo> (I think we agreed to get rid of this laundry list approach in the HTML)
16:32:09 <dgarijo> @khalid : +1.
16:32:47 <tlebo> luc: ivan's feedback after f2f. many ontologies that were well presented. OPMV, FOAF, (not enough examples in foaf html)
16:33:02 <tlebo> luc: good to think about how the HTML will be structured.
16:33:05 <Luc> q?
16:33:32 <GK_> (I've an idea that some of the FOAF/OPMV content is auto-generated from the OWN description)
16:33:45 <tlebo> luc: DMers shouldn't impose the provo html structure.
16:34:09 <tlebo> luc: action on structure of provo doc?
16:34:28 <tlebo> satya: will take action on structure of prov-o html
16:34:53 <tlebo> action: satya to design structure of provo-html
16:34:53 <trackbot> Created ACTION-63 - Design structure of provo-html [on Satya Sahoo - due 2012-02-16].
16:35:01 <Luc> action to satya to outline the new structure of the prov-o document, to be discussed on 23
16:35:01 <trackbot> Sorry, couldn't find user - to
16:35:29 <tlebo> luc: ivan suggested that it is usful to line up reviewers of the draft.
16:35:30 <GK_> @luc: that action got created with 16-feb due date, not 23rd
16:35:46 <tlebo> luc: need reviewers to provo html 
16:35:51 <tlebo> luc: volunteers?
16:36:00 <Luc> q?
16:36:12 <estephan> I will review
16:36:18 <tlebo> satya: think it would be helpful to have DMers review, too.
16:36:36 <tlebo> luc: volunteers?
16:36:56 <tlebo> luc: zednick?
16:36:58 <GK_> (I probably shall review it, but I'm reluctant to make formal commitment at this time, until it's actually available.)
16:37:13 <tlebo> @etephan said he would, too
16:37:21 <tlebo> luc: simon?
16:37:34 <zednik> I am willing to review prov-o
16:37:36 <satya> perhaps both Simon and Yolanda?
16:37:38 <estephan> +1
16:37:44 <tlebo> smiles: sure, from pov of primer
16:38:17 <zednik> too many stephans ;-)
16:38:23 <tlebo> (too many "steph*n"s)
16:39:08 <davidschaengold> I'll volunteer as well to review it
16:39:21 <satya> @Stephan: you are co-author :)
16:39:35 <estephan> +q
16:39:50 <GK_> (What I'd like to do is review the ontology side-by-side with the *simplified* DM)
16:39:51 <tlebo> core dump
16:39:59 <Luc> ack es
16:40:11 <tlebo> luc, paolo, eric stephen, cresswell, perhaps GK
16:40:31 <tlebo> estephan: hwo to give feedback?
16:41:07 <tlebo> luc: we need to know someone looked at it.
16:41:18 <satya> @Eric: raise issues?
16:41:21 <Luc> q?
16:41:38 <tlebo> topic: dm
16:41:57 <Luc> http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/ProvDMWorkingDraft4
16:42:12 <tlebo> luc: wiki page on current activities
16:42:20 <tlebo> luc: trying to adderss action 62 - simplify
16:42:41 <tlebo> luc: created new directory in hg
16:42:53 <Luc> http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/prov/raw-file/default/model/working-copy/towards-wd4.html
16:43:04 <tlebo> luc: welcome to look, but still in progress.
16:43:11 <tlebo> luc: decided to structure into 3 parts
16:43:45 <tlebo> luc: part 1: model based on no "Thing"
16:44:07 <tlebo> luc: part 1: support scruffy prov (so no attributes, charact intervals, constraints)
16:44:11 <tlebo> luc: all moved out of doc
16:44:20 <tlebo> luc: dropped Account Record.
16:44:27 <GK_> q+ to ask if the first part will be anything more than a summary of the ASN expression types
16:44:42 <Luc> http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/prov/raw-file/default/model/working-copy/prov-asn.html
16:44:51 <tlebo> luc: part 3: ASN and grammar
16:45:06 <tlebo> luc: part 2: "upgrade path"
16:45:15 <tlebo> (from scruffy to proper prov)
16:45:32 <GK_> Would prefer to see it described as a "refinement path" rather than "upgrade"
16:45:36 <Luc> q?
16:45:38 <tlebo> luc: first version of this draft by next telecon
16:46:11 <dgarijo> yesterday on the DC call, Thom Baker said that he really liked the distinction between scruffy/proper provenance.
16:46:14 <tlebo> gk: part 1 any mor than summary of expression types?
16:46:20 <tlebo> gk: want it that simple.
16:46:20 <Luc> http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/prov/raw-file/default/model/working-copy/towards-wd4.html
16:46:34 <Luc> q?
16:47:03 <tlebo> luc: tried to provide intuitive def for all concepts with examples in english
16:47:43 <Luc> q?
16:47:44 <tlebo> luc: list of terms an dtheir componetns with illustration
16:47:49 <Luc> ack GK
16:47:49 <Zakim> GK_, you wanted to ask if the first part will be anything more than a summary of the ASN expression types
16:48:15 <tlebo> gk: looks closer to waht group was asked to do.
16:48:45 <tlebo> luc: happy with anyone to look at and comment on (do not raise issues)
16:49:06 <tlebo> luc: if have commetns, write notes on page and send email notifying
16:49:30 <Luc> q?
16:49:40 <tlebo> luc: comments?
16:49:46 <MacTed> Zakim, unmute me
16:49:46 <Zakim> MacTed should no longer be muted
16:49:46 <GK_> I'll probably hold off detailed review untilk that 1st draft is available for co9mment
16:50:03 <tlebo> macted: which URLs are which part of breakout
16:50:14 <Luc> part 1: http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/prov/raw-file/default/model/working-copy/towards-wd4.html
16:50:26 <Luc> part 3: http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/prov/raw-file/default/model/working-copy/prov-asn.html
16:50:52 <tlebo> luc: will add link to wiki page
16:50:58 <MacTed> Zakim, mute me
16:50:58 <Zakim> MacTed should now be muted
16:51:07 <tlebo> luc: would like reviewers of docs for next week
16:51:23 <Luc> q?
16:51:23 <tlebo> +1
16:51:25 <estephan> +1 (Eric Stephan)
16:51:27 <GK_> I intend to review
16:51:44 <dgarijo> I'll try too 
16:51:55 <Curt> I'll try 
16:52:33 <tlebo> topic: coordinate dm and prov-o
16:52:54 <tlebo> reading list: primer, prov-o, dm
16:53:09 <tlebo> luc: comments on joint release
16:53:10 <tlebo> ?
16:53:16 <Luc> q?
16:53:17 <smiles> q+
16:53:40 <Luc> ack smiles
16:53:59 <tlebo> smiles: from f2f, we have a schedule. prov-o owl next week and html week after.
16:54:05 <tlebo> ... primer 8 march.
16:54:27 <tlebo> ... then 1-2 weeks from that (20 march)
16:54:36 <tlebo> luc: we've slipped by 1 month
16:54:57 <tlebo> luc: timetable discussed at f2f
16:55:06 <tlebo> ... 4th draft 1 march
16:55:13 <tlebo> ... 5th draft 1 apri.l
16:55:30 <tlebo> ... release of all 1 april?
16:55:55 <tlebo> ... concerned.
16:56:00 <Luc> q?
16:56:00 <tlebo> ... all docs earlier?
16:57:02 <tlebo> satya: last feb first march
16:57:05 <GK_> I personally think we need to get the simplified DM nailed and stabilized (in broad principle) before charging too fast with the other docs.
16:57:14 <tlebo> (I think first week march would be reasonable)
16:57:23 <Zakim> -[IPcaller.a]
16:57:33 <satya> @GK: I agree
16:58:01 <Luc> q?
16:58:12 <tlebo> simon: if we agree on the owl, primer by end of feb. but what if there are concerns on the owl?
16:58:30 <dgarijo> I don't think that the primer is going to change a lot..
16:58:48 <tlebo> gk_: really helpful if broad DM stable before pushing on other docs.
16:59:24 <smiles> @dgarijo yes, I hope you're right :)
16:59:33 <tlebo> luc: provo due fairly soon
16:59:47 <tlebo> satya: agree that we need DM stable.
17:00:10 <tlebo> q+ to point out that the concepts aren't changing in DM. so it's "stable"
17:00:41 <smiles> Apologies, but I will have to leave in a minute...
17:01:01 <tlebo> luc: we need to close issues.
17:01:11 <GK_> I'm fine that there may be outstanding issues (near term); but the DM sets a general direction that we're all trying to follow
17:01:22 <Luc> ack tle
17:01:22 <Zakim> tlebo, you wanted to point out that the concepts aren't changing in DM. so it's "stable"
17:01:53 <Luc> q?
17:01:57 <dgarijo> @tlebo:+1
17:02:13 <Zakim> -[IPcaller]
17:02:18 <tlebo> topic: connection task force
17:02:38 <tlebo> estephan: kai did report on plans from f2f2. dc mapping. great effort.
17:02:50 <khalidbelhajjame> Sorry, I will have to leave as I have another meeting
17:02:53 <tlebo> ... while that continues, we should meet as a task force periodically.
17:03:03 <YolandaGil> Simon: there were a few minor things we wanted to update on the planner, we can discuss them when we meet at the end of the month.
17:03:11 <tlebo> ... most on task force have connections and would be good to keep the report alive.
17:03:15 <Zakim> -??P80
17:03:35 <Luc> q?
17:03:45 <estephan> +q
17:03:57 <Luc> ack e
17:04:14 <tlebo> estephan: monday call details on email
17:04:20 <YolandaGil> I'll be joining the conn TF call
17:04:23 <tlebo> luc: that's it. meet next week.
17:04:24 <Zakim> -davidschaengold
17:04:25 <Zakim> -Satya_Sahoo
17:04:26 <Zakim> -??P81
17:04:27 <GK_> Bye 
17:04:27 <Zakim> - +1.443.708.aaee
17:04:27 <Zakim> - +1.509.967.aadd
17:04:27 <Zakim> -jcheney
17:04:29 <Zakim> -[ISI]
17:04:29 <Zakim> -Sandro
17:04:31 <Zakim> -MacTed
17:04:33 <estephan> estephan has left #prov
17:04:33 <Zakim> -Curt_Tilmes
17:04:35 <Zakim> -tlebo
17:04:39 <Zakim> -Luc
17:04:51 <Luc> rrsagent, set log public 
17:04:53 <Zakim> -GK_
17:04:55 <Luc> rrsagent, draft minutes 
17:04:55 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/02/09-prov-minutes.html Luc
17:04:59 <Luc> trackbot, end telcon 
17:04:59 <trackbot> Sorry, Luc, I don't understand 'trackbot, end telcon '. Please refer to http://www.w3.org/2005/06/tracker/irc for help
17:05:00 <Zakim> -??P25
17:05:16 <Zakim> -??P20
17:05:18 <Zakim> SW_(PROV)11:00AM has ended
17:05:18 <Zakim> Attendees were Curt_Tilmes, Luc, +1.315.330.aabb, Satya_Sahoo, [IPcaller], +1.646.389.aacc, tlebo, davidschaengold, +1.509.967.aadd, MacTed, jcheney, [ISI], Sandro, GK_,
17:05:18 <Zakim> ... +1.443.708.aaee