17:58:26 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #text
17:58:26 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2012/02/07-text-irc
17:58:31 <Judy> zakim, room for 10?
17:58:32 <Zakim> ok, Judy; conference Team_(text)17:58Z scheduled with code 2119 (A11Y) for 60 minutes until 1858Z
17:59:50 <Judy> agenda+ check meta name generator CP poll is underway or completed
17:59:50 <Judy> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/wiki/ChangeProposal/meta_name%3Dgenerator_does_not_make_missing_alt_conforming
17:59:50 <Judy> agenda+ review, discuss, and as appropriate approve updates to change proposal on Title
17:59:50 <Judy> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/wiki/ChangeProposals/notitlev2
17:59:50 <Judy> agenda+ review, discuss, and as appropriate approve updates to CP on WG location of alt guidance
17:59:51 <Judy> agenda+ review, discuss, and as appropriate approve updates to CP on figcaption
17:59:53 <Judy> agenda+ check status of response on longdesc CP
17:59:55 <Judy> agenda+ confirm actions to progress issues from http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/wiki/Accessibility_Change_Proposal_Status starting at #182
17:59:58 <Judy> agenda+ confirm next meeting; identify next scribe; adjourn
18:00:28 <Judy> chair: Judy
18:00:36 <Judy> meeting: HTML-A11Y Text Alternatives Sub-Group
18:00:54 <Zakim> Team_(text)17:58Z has now started
18:01:02 <Zakim> +Judy
18:01:33 <Zakim> +David_MacDonald
18:01:52 <MichaelC> MichaelC has joined #text
18:02:01 <Zakim> +Cooper
18:02:29 <David> David has joined #text
18:02:37 <David> test
18:02:43 <Zakim> +??P4
18:02:55 <MichaelC> zakim, ??P4 is Janina_Sajka
18:02:55 <Zakim> +Janina_Sajka; got it
18:03:08 <janina> janina has joined #text
18:04:46 <MichaelC> scribe: MichaelC
18:05:20 <MichaelC> zakim, next item
18:05:20 <Zakim> agendum 1. "check meta name generator CP poll is underway or completed" taken up [from Judy]
18:15:29 <Judy> JS: sent out the 48-hour poll this morning
18:15:36 <Judy> ...link is at http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-a11y/2012Feb/0041.html
18:16:14 <MichaelC> jb: just call for objections?
18:16:28 <MichaelC> js: right; responses make it a poll, we just want objections
18:16:40 <MichaelC> zakim, next itenm
18:16:40 <Zakim> I don't understand 'next itenm', MichaelC
18:16:43 <MichaelC> zakim, next item
18:16:43 <Zakim> agendum 2. "review, discuss, and as appropriate approve updates to change proposal on Title" taken up [from Judy]
18:16:55 <MichaelC> jb: gave feedback to Steve
18:18:31 <Judy> s/gave feedback/Text Sub-Team gave feedback last week/
18:18:41 <MichaelC> -> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/wiki/ChangeProposals/notitlev2 Change proposal on title
18:19:12 <MichaelC> so no changes made since our last meeting
18:22:39 <MichaelC> jb: timeline?
18:22:44 <MichaelC> -> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2011Jun/0315.html Timeline
18:22:58 <MichaelC> jb: this is a reconsideration request
18:23:49 <Judy> s/jb/js/
18:24:08 <Judy> jb: not annotated with the right response deadline date in http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/wiki/Accessibility_Change_Proposal_Status
18:24:30 <MichaelC> mc; don't see that in the timeline
18:25:32 <MichaelC> -> http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/wiki/Accessibility_Change_Proposal_Status Change proposal tracking table
18:28:42 <MichaelC> jb: so we need an updated change proposal by this Saturday (11 Feb)
18:28:56 <MichaelC> js: not clear it applies
18:29:55 <MichaelC> this is reopen, not escalation process
18:30:58 <MichaelC> mc: Feb 11 is deadline for all issues
18:32:26 <MichaelC> jb: remember a different timeline
18:32:30 <MichaelC> <everyone looking>
18:33:09 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
18:33:20 <MichaelC> zakim, IPcaller is Steve_Faulkner
18:33:20 <Zakim> +Steve_Faulkner; got it
18:33:54 <MichaelC> sf: plan to complete title change proposal by end of this week
18:34:02 <MichaelC> hopefully in time for Thursday's meeting
18:36:17 <MichaelC> jb: let's make sure to get review of a version Thursday
18:36:24 <MichaelC> even if further edits to be made before Saturday
18:36:54 <Judy> [judy: and then come back later for specific subteam updated review and then TF approval, as needed]
18:37:11 <MichaelC> text sub-team may have additional feedback to make also
18:37:41 <MichaelC> zakim, next item
18:37:41 <Zakim> agendum 3. "review, discuss, and as appropriate approve updates to CP on WG location of alt guidance" taken up [from Judy]
18:38:07 <Judy> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/wiki/ChangeProposals/Text_Alternatives_Ownership
18:38:27 <MichaelC> ^ Change proposal on location of alt from Michael
18:38:48 <janina> scribe: janina
18:39:21 <janina> michael: mostly a rationale, still unsure of what and how best to say
18:39:42 <Stevef> Stevef has joined #text
18:41:17 <David> www.ssa.gov/accessibility/files/SSA_Alternative_Text_Guide.pdf
18:43:25 <MichaelC> scribe: MichaelC
18:43:46 <MichaelC> js: expect chairs will see lots of assertions but no evidence
18:43:55 <MichaelC> mc: yes, exactly my worry, I've been struggling with this issue
18:46:20 <Stevef> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2011Jun/0315.html
18:47:29 <MichaelC> jb: summary should be a little more detailed
18:47:45 <MichaelC> to include synopsis of rationale
18:48:00 <MichaelC> js: also note this is a request to reconsider decision on ISSUE-31
18:48:11 <MichaelC> s/ISSUE-31/HTML-ISSUE-31/
18:48:43 <MichaelC> jb: also break down into specific points
18:50:36 <MichaelC> sf: unsure of priority of moving this doc
18:53:32 <MichaelC> mc: think importance of that is related to the proposal to change the version embedded in HTML spec to point to the external version
18:53:53 <MichaelC> if the embedded version is removed, we may be less concerned about who owns the version pointed to instead
18:54:16 <MichaelC> but if it's retained in HTML, it may be more important for WCAG to have an accessibility-authoritative alternate version
18:55:34 <MichaelC> sf: really location of doc isn't our primary issue, it's the (normative) problematic guidance within the HTML spec
18:57:44 <MichaelC> we want to move non-lexical guidance out and keep lexical guidance in the spec
18:58:21 <MichaelC> mc: the spec currently defines as lexical requirements stuff we think should not be considered as lexical
18:58:43 <MichaelC> so hard to argue about moving non-lexical stuff because as cast it's currently arguably lexical
18:58:50 <MichaelC> dmd: <missed>
19:02:32 <MichaelC> s/<missed>/there are blog entries criticizing html5, for it's 20 page alternative text document, so I encourage its move to WCAG/
19:03:07 <MichaelC> js: seems there is a strong desire to keep this in HTML
19:03:17 <MichaelC> (outside of a11y community)
19:05:05 <MichaelC> mc: in part the chairs have encouraged competing versions of the same requirements (in various cases) with goal that market forces will pick a winner
19:05:18 <MichaelC> perhaps they want to retain in HTML so that process can continue
19:05:53 <MichaelC> jb: but don't think that will work for us
19:06:04 <MichaelC> think we still need to move it
19:06:13 <MichaelC> but current draft change proposal not there yet
19:10:08 <MichaelC> jb: add that HTML spec has incorrect and overly detailed info on text alternatives
19:10:53 <MichaelC> mc: that's a "says who" situation
19:11:11 <MichaelC> jb: point to bugs, which are filed by recognized authorities
19:12:57 <Judy> s/recognized authorities/people with recognized expertise on accessibility
19:13:27 <MichaelC> mc: what about critiques in the chair decision on HTML-ISSUE-31?
19:13:50 <MichaelC> e.g., there were statements that "X is unsubstantiated" but don't know where to begin to find details they will accept
19:13:59 <MichaelC> sf: this is a reopen request, so we have to address the issues raised
19:14:06 <MichaelC> in the chair decision
19:14:56 <MichaelC> js: responding on the terms the chairs laid out doesn't leave us much wiggle room
19:15:05 <Judy> agenda?
19:15:08 <MichaelC> jb: so MC to add edits
19:15:12 <MichaelC> zakim, next item
19:15:12 <Zakim> agendum 4. "review, discuss, and as appropriate approve updates to CP on figcaption" taken up [from Judy]
19:16:07 <MichaelC> jb: still have some work to do on figcaption
19:17:01 <MichaelC> zakim, close this item
19:17:01 <Zakim> agendum 4 closed
19:17:02 <Zakim> I see 3 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
19:17:02 <Zakim> 5. check status of response on longdesc CP [from Judy]
19:17:06 <MichaelC> zakim, next item
19:17:06 <Zakim> agendum 5. "check status of response on longdesc CP" taken up [from Judy]
19:17:12 <Judy> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2012Feb/0058.html
19:17:43 <Judy> this is the review summary from Maciej, including input from the other HTML5 Co-Chairs
19:19:44 <MichaelC> jb: need to provide comprehensive response
19:19:50 <MichaelC> Laura has replied and will probably want to help
19:20:51 <Judy> ...and would probably also appreciate help
19:20:53 <Judy> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2012Feb/0058.html
19:24:05 <MichaelC> js: still seem not to understand why aria-describedby not workable
19:25:04 <MichaelC> not a way to provide long description of an image
19:25:13 <MichaelC> mc: for off-page descriptions
19:25:32 <MichaelC> js: but on-page descriptions not workable because they intrude for mainstream users
19:27:21 <MichaelC> also we need to have rich text, but AAPIs don't get rich text from targets of aria-describedby
19:28:11 <MichaelC> have to have a longdesc-type arc to get a version where rich text available
19:29:32 <MichaelC> js: wonder if they don't understand the rich text issue, or if they dispute the requirement
19:29:43 <MichaelC> could clarify that in a question to them
19:29:55 <Judy> jb: go for it 
19:30:51 <Judy> agenda?
19:31:24 <Judy> zakim, who
19:31:24 <Zakim> I don't understand 'who', Judy
19:31:30 <Judy> zakim, who's here?
19:31:30 <Zakim> On the phone I see Judy, David_MacDonald, Cooper, Janina_Sajka, Steve_Faulkner
19:31:32 <Zakim> On IRC I see Stevef, janina, David, MichaelC, RRSAgent, Zakim, Judy
19:32:36 <MichaelC> zakim, close this item
19:32:36 <Zakim> agendum 5 closed
19:32:37 <Zakim> I see 2 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
19:32:37 <Zakim> 6. confirm actions to progress issues from http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/wiki/Accessibility_Change_Proposal_Status starting at #182 [from Judy]
19:32:43 <MichaelC> zakim, take up item 7
19:32:43 <Zakim> agendum 7. "confirm next meeting; identify next scribe; adjourn" taken up [from Judy]
19:32:50 <MichaelC> jb: looking at times for next week
19:32:54 <MichaelC> SF and MC both not available
19:33:04 <MichaelC> exploring other times, but nothing great
19:33:15 <MichaelC> will stick with existing time, with regrets
19:38:46 <Zakim> -Steve_Faulkner
19:38:47 <Zakim> -Cooper
19:38:48 <Zakim> -Judy
19:38:50 <Zakim> -Janina_Sajka
19:38:52 <Zakim> -David_MacDonald
19:38:52 <Zakim> Team_(text)17:58Z has ended
19:38:52 <Zakim> Attendees were Judy, David_MacDonald, Cooper, Janina_Sajka, Steve_Faulkner
19:38:59 <MichaelC> rrsagent, make minutes
19:38:59 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/02/07-text-minutes.html MichaelC
20:06:01 <MichaelC> rrsagent, make log world
20:06:03 <MichaelC> rrsagent, make minutes
20:06:03 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/02/07-text-minutes.html MichaelC
20:10:46 <MichaelC> rrsagent, bye
20:10:46 <RRSAgent> I see no action items